I just noticed something

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
BGD300V1
BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
I just noticed something
1

What with COVID Cabin fever I've been looking around various parts of photo sites that I usually breeze past.

There is a page here on DPReview that shows you which cameras are used for galleries and challenges. They are two of the tabs at

Popular Interchangeable lens cameras

The data is collected over the previous 5 days posts.

As of this morning (9/27), the list of most popular interchangeable lens cameras used in challenges is entirely Nikon. Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/slrs/statistics/challenges

If you look at the Galleries tab you see that 5 of the 10 are Nikon, 4 Canon and 1 Olympus.

Sony doesn't appear anywhere on either of those two lists; the ones where people are actually posting images from their gear.

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Justfocus
Justfocus Junior Member • Posts: 46
Re: I just noticed something

I guess it depends on which segment of the population you're dealing with.

The Associated Press have globally made Sony the official camera of all photo journalists

https://www.ap.org/press-releases/2020/ap-to-equip-all-visual-journalists-globally-with-sony-imaging-products

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8983805391/ap-partners-with-sony-to-exclusively-provide-its-visual-journalists-with-sony-camera-gear

BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something

Justfocus wrote:

I guess it depends on which segment of the population you're dealing with.

The Associated Press have globally made Sony the official camera of all photo journalists

https://www.ap.org/press-releases/2020/ap-to-equip-all-visual-journalists-globally-with-sony-imaging-products

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8983805391/ap-partners-with-sony-to-exclusively-provide-its-visual-journalists-with-sony-camera-gear

That's marketing and cutting price to get the order so that claims like that can be made.

It's like Canon paying to be the "Official Camera of the NFL"

Canon Shoots For Third Sponsorship Of The NFL

Canon, which promotes its PowerShot cameras via sponsorship with tennis star Maria Sharapova, has signed up for the third time to be "Official Camera of the NFL."

The company, which has been a sponsor since 1984, is initially using the contract--running through 2010--to promote its Canon Digital Rebel and EOS SLR cameras. In addition to getting the rights to NFL imagery and logos, which it can use in its advertising, Canon will run a series of promotions this fall that tie NFL with amateur and professional photography. Canon will also roll out a new print and broadcast ad campaign to coincide with the start of the season to primarily support the two Canon camera brands.

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Justfocus
Justfocus Junior Member • Posts: 46
Re: I just noticed something
1

In terms of Japanese exports Canon was the market leader. But if you look at mirrorless specifically:

Of those cameras, 3.94 million were mirrorless cameras, or about 46%. Here’s how many mirrorless cameras the top brands shipped:

Sony: 1.65 million
Canon: 940,000
Fujifilm: 500,000
Olympus: 330,000
Nikon: 280,000
Others: 240,000

According to https://petapixel.com/2020/09/18/heres-how-many-dslrs-and-mirrorless-cameras-top-brands-shipped-in-2019/

Shipped doesn't necessarily mean bought of course. But it would indicate an opposite trend to what you've observed here. Make of it what we will I guess.

BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something
1

Justfocus wrote:

In terms of Japanese exports Canon was the market leader. But if you look at mirrorless specifically:

Of those cameras, 3.94 million were mirrorless cameras, or about 46%. Here’s how many mirrorless cameras the top brands shipped:

Sony: 1.65 million
Canon: 940,000
Fujifilm: 500,000
Olympus: 330,000
Nikon: 280,000
Others: 240,000

According to https://petapixel.com/2020/09/18/heres-how-many-dslrs-and-mirrorless-cameras-top-brands-shipped-in-2019/

Shipped doesn't necessarily mean bought of course. But it would indicate an opposite trend to what you've observed here. Make of it what we will I guess.

That's all well and good but I'm pointing out where the images in the galleries and competitions are coming from.

Nikon hasn't made much on the D40's that show up in second place on the competitions tab,

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MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 4,484
Re: I just noticed something
1

BGD300V1 wrote:

Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

nikon abandoned the v1 series back in 2018, so what is your point?

MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 4,484
Re: I just noticed something
2

BGD300V1 wrote:

Justfocus wrote:

I guess it depends on which segment of the population you're dealing with.

The Associated Press have globally made Sony the official camera of all photo journalists

https://www.ap.org/press-releases/2020/ap-to-equip-all-visual-journalists-globally-with-sony-imaging-products

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8983805391/ap-partners-with-sony-to-exclusively-provide-its-visual-journalists-with-sony-camera-gear

That's marketing and cutting price to get the order so that claims like that can be made.

it's not marketing and price cutting, the ap picked the best gear for the job that they are doing.

it's well-documented that they needed stills/video/uploading tech capability that no other manufacturer has.

canon is trying to support four different incompatible lens mounts, canon only has one parfocal power zoom vs. sony having six of 'em, canon doesn't make smartphones so they don't have native 5g upload compatibility, etc.

"An HDMI input lets you connect the Xperia PRO to a camera or video camera and use 5G mmWave connectivity to broadcast video content. It’s a game-changer for working on location." https://www.sony.com/electronics/professional-smartphones/xperia-pro/specifications

It's like Canon paying to be the "Official Camera of the NFL"

no, because the nfl itself didn't commit to owning just canon gear... the ap committed to equipping it's photogs with only sony gear, that's not the same thing as sponsoring a few events... sponsoring is nothing more than advertising.

BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something

When you buy as many cameras as the AP does it comes down to price on a competitive bid basis.

If you want the name bad enough you undercut the competition.  You probably throw in a lot of the older models that Sony is still trying to unload.

It's still a fact that NIKON had all ten competition slots and half of the gallery slots on this site.

I just checked again, the Sony A7R II has shown up at the bottom of the competition list.  It's got a long way to go to catch up to the 15 year old Nikon D40.  Somebody has been busy since this thread began,

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I'm a photographer, Jim, not a graphic artist!
My photo blog: http://birdsnbugs.com
RF Stock Portfolio - http://www.dreamstime.com/resp129611

 BGD300V1's gear list:BGD300V1's gear list
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BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something
1

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

nikon abandoned the v1 series back in 2018, so what is your point?

We all post opinions; the folks who post photos in challenges and galleries shoot Nikon.

-- hide signature --

I'm a photographer, Jim, not a graphic artist!
My photo blog: http://birdsnbugs.com
RF Stock Portfolio - http://www.dreamstime.com/resp129611

 BGD300V1's gear list:BGD300V1's gear list
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Justfocus
Justfocus Junior Member • Posts: 46
Re: I just noticed something
1

BGD300V1 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

nikon abandoned the v1 series back in 2018, so what is your point?

We all post opinions; the folks who post photos in challenges and galleries shoot Nikon.

Yes, in *these* galleries. Doesn’t necessarily represent the rest of the world. This is one section (microcosm?) of the photo-taking population.

BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something

Justfocus wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

nikon abandoned the v1 series back in 2018, so what is your point?

We all post opinions; the folks who post photos in challenges and galleries shoot Nikon.

Yes, in *these* galleries. Doesn’t necessarily represent the rest of the world. This is one section (microcosm?) of the photo-taking population.

Well, yes.  I simply stated a fact based on the statistics from  this  general photography site.

Feel free to show other general sites with differences.

-- hide signature --

I'm a photographer, Jim, not a graphic artist!
My photo blog: http://birdsnbugs.com
RF Stock Portfolio - http://www.dreamstime.com/resp129611

 BGD300V1's gear list:BGD300V1's gear list
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MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 4,484
Re: I just noticed something

BGD300V1 wrote:

When you buy as many cameras as the AP does it comes down to price on a competitive bid basis.

cameras are _not_ all the same.

the a.p. stated that sony has the technological advantages that the a.p. wants, because it does, as i already demonstrated.

nikon has to buy sensors from sony, it's forever condemned to playing second fiddle wrt technology.

If you want the name bad enough you undercut the competition. You probably throw in a lot of the older models that Sony is still trying to unload.

whatever the customer wants, period.

It's still a fact that NIKON had all ten competition slots and half of the gallery slots on this site.

I just checked again, the Sony A7R II has shown up at the bottom of the competition list. It's got a long way to go to catch up to the 15 year old Nikon D40. Somebody has been busy since this thread began,

again, what's your point?

nikon stock prices have plunged in the last year, from $12.40 to $6.44 a share.

i would expect stability to be a factor for the a.p.

BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something
2

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

When you buy as many cameras as the AP does it comes down to price on a competitive bid basis.

cameras are _not_ all the same.

the a.p. stated that sony has the technological advantages that the a.p. wants, because it does, as i already demonstrated.

nikon has to buy sensors from sony, it's forever condemned to playing second fiddle wrt technology.

If you want the name bad enough you undercut the competition. You probably throw in a lot of the older models that Sony is still trying to unload.

whatever the customer wants, period.

It's still a fact that NIKON had all ten competition slots and half of the gallery slots on this site.

I just checked again, the Sony A7R II has shown up at the bottom of the competition list. It's got a long way to go to catch up to the 15 year old Nikon D40. Somebody has been busy since this thread began,

again, what's your point?

nikon stock prices have plunged in the last year, from $12.40 to $6.44 a share.

i would expect stability to be a factor for the a.p.

The point is the images produced and published here by photographers.  You can worry about stock prices, etc.

BTW, Nikon makes the machines that makes the sensors.

When I take part in a thread I usually take a look at the other posters gallery to see if I find value in their input based on the evidence of their expertise.  That's sometimes hard to find in a forum on buying advice.

-- hide signature --

I'm a photographer, Jim, not a graphic artist!
My photo blog: http://birdsnbugs.com
RF Stock Portfolio - http://www.dreamstime.com/resp129611

 BGD300V1's gear list:BGD300V1's gear list
Nikon 1 V2 Nikon 1 J5 Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon Z50 +12 more
MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 4,484
Re: I just noticed something

BGD300V1 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

When you buy as many cameras as the AP does it comes down to price on a competitive bid basis.

cameras are _not_ all the same.

the a.p. stated that sony has the technological advantages that the a.p. wants, because it does, as i already demonstrated.

nikon has to buy sensors from sony, it's forever condemned to playing second fiddle wrt technology.

If you want the name bad enough you undercut the competition. You probably throw in a lot of the older models that Sony is still trying to unload.

whatever the customer wants, period.

It's still a fact that NIKON had all ten competition slots and half of the gallery slots on this site.

I just checked again, the Sony A7R II has shown up at the bottom of the competition list. It's got a long way to go to catch up to the 15 year old Nikon D40. Somebody has been busy since this thread began,

again, what's your point?

nikon stock prices have plunged in the last year, from $12.40 to $6.44 a share.

i would expect stability to be a factor for the a.p.

The point is the images produced and published here by photographers.

what is the point of worrying about what other photographers use.

it must be a social thing, like people who need to be seen carrying technically inferior leica cameras.

the brand matters more than the photos.

You can worry about stock prices, etc.

everyone should worry about the future of the camera company that they buy product from.

the fact that nikon abandoned the v1 series should have been a wake-up call for all nikon owners... likewise with nikon plunging stock prices.

BTW, Nikon makes the machines that makes the sensors.

nikon has insignificant market share there, and only with low-end lithography equipment:

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/lithography-equipment-market-share-detailed-analysis-of-current-industry-figures-with-forecasts-growth-by-2026-2020-08-03

When I take part in a thread I usually take a look at the other posters gallery to see if I find value in their input based on the evidence of their expertise. That's sometimes hard to find in a forum on buying advice.

some people don't understand hard technical facts about cameras, and how brands differ.

dpr does their best with detailed camera reviews, but that's apparently not enough.

BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something
2

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

When you buy as many cameras as the AP does it comes down to price on a competitive bid basis.

cameras are _not_ all the same.

the a.p. stated that sony has the technological advantages that the a.p. wants, because it does, as i already demonstrated.

nikon has to buy sensors from sony, it's forever condemned to playing second fiddle wrt technology.

If you want the name bad enough you undercut the competition. You probably throw in a lot of the older models that Sony is still trying to unload.

whatever the customer wants, period.

It's still a fact that NIKON had all ten competition slots and half of the gallery slots on this site.

I just checked again, the Sony A7R II has shown up at the bottom of the competition list. It's got a long way to go to catch up to the 15 year old Nikon D40. Somebody has been busy since this thread began,

again, what's your point?

nikon stock prices have plunged in the last year, from $12.40 to $6.44 a share.

i would expect stability to be a factor for the a.p.

The point is the images produced and published here by photographers.

what is the point of worrying about what other photographers use.

it must be a social thing, like people who need to be seen carrying technically inferior leica cameras.

the brand matters more than the photos.

You can worry about stock prices, etc.

everyone should worry about the future of the camera company that they buy product from.

the fact that nikon abandoned the v1 series should have been a wake-up call for all nikon owners... likewise with nikon plunging stock prices.

BTW, Nikon makes the machines that makes the sensors.

nikon has insignificant market share there, and only with low-end lithography equipment:

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/lithography-equipment-market-share-detailed-analysis-of-current-industry-figures-with-forecasts-growth-by-2026-2020-08-03

When I take part in a thread I usually take a look at the other posters gallery to see if I find value in their input based on the evidence of their expertise. That's sometimes hard to find in a forum on buying advice.

some people don't understand hard technical facts about cameras, and how brands differ.

dpr does their best with detailed camera reviews, but that's apparently not enough.

I don't believe that for a minute.  I've sold digital images taken with everything from a Coolpix 5700 to my Z7 and a number of DSLRs in between.

I gave away my Nikkormat fTn a couple of years ago to a guy who wanted to shoot film it was still in full working condition.

Good images are produced by good photographers and good gear lasts many years.  Although, I'm pretty sure that none of the AF-S VR lenses I have will have the endurance of my old AI Nikkors.

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My photo blog: http://birdsnbugs.com
RF Stock Portfolio - http://www.dreamstime.com/resp129611

 BGD300V1's gear list:BGD300V1's gear list
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New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 4,900
Re: I just noticed something
3

BGD300V1 wrote:

What with COVID Cabin fever I've been looking around various parts of photo sites that I usually breeze past.

There is a page here on DPReview that shows you which cameras are used for galleries and challenges. They are two of the tabs at

Popular Interchangeable lens cameras

The data is collected over the previous 5 days posts.

As of this morning (9/27), the list of most popular interchangeable lens cameras used in challenges is entirely Nikon. Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/slrs/statistics/challenges

These data look pretty volatile and are a bit different today from yesterday, when you posted. When I looked just before, the D5300 and D40 were still in the top two spots, but the first full frame (D850) was now in third and the D610 had disappeared completely. The D5200 and Nikon 1 V1 had dropped down. The Olympus E-M1 ii was now in fourth, followed by the Sony a6600.

If you look at the Galleries tab you see that 5 of the 10 are Nikon, 4 Canon and 1 Olympus.

This is still the same but the order and models may be different from yesterday.

Sony doesn't appear anywhere on either of those two lists; the ones where people are actually posting images from their gear.

It does now!

The devil is in the detail...

The "top challenges camera", the D5300, has 5.3%. But 5.3% of what? Presumably all challenge entries in the five days. There's not a lot of challenges running at any given time and a lot do not have many entries. So, 1/20th of a relatively small number is a very small number. Small enough to be meaningless as a statistical measure. It could easily be skewed by one or two people entering a couple of challenges on a particular day.

All together, the 10 cameras total 26.9%. So 3/4 of challenge entries are from cameras other than these.

The "top galleries cameras" are an even smaller proportion of the total. The D850 accounts for 3.5%. All up, the top 10 account for 22.1% of uploads. I don't know how many photos are uploaded to DPR galleries each day, but perhaps one person uploading a bunch of photos from their D850 will do it.

In any case, gallery entries don't mean a lot. We know from several threads, including recent ones, that many members don't use the gallery function. Some avoid it to protect their professional interests, some don't like how DPR stores photos, some post directly into threads, some choose to post their images elsewhere and only come to this site to talk about gear. Some only use galleries to post in challenges and then delete them after the challenge is finished.

For ages I had an empty gallery, first because you had to use Adobe Flash and my device didn't support it, then because I couldn't be bothered sorting through all my pictures to select those I felt should represent me in the gallery. The only reason I have some now, aside from challenge entries, is to provide a shield against those members who criticise others for not having any photos in their gallery. So I grabbed a few random photos and threw them in the gallery so nobody can say that to me. They're far from my best photos, but they're something.

 New Day Rising's gear list:New Day Rising's gear list
Sony RX100 Nikon D50 Canon EOS 550D Sony Alpha NEX-6 Fujifilm X-T1 +13 more
New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 4,900
Re: I just noticed something
1

BGD300V1 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

When you buy as many cameras as the AP does it comes down to price on a competitive bid basis.

cameras are _not_ all the same.

the a.p. stated that sony has the technological advantages that the a.p. wants, because it does, as i already demonstrated.

nikon has to buy sensors from sony, it's forever condemned to playing second fiddle wrt technology.

If you want the name bad enough you undercut the competition. You probably throw in a lot of the older models that Sony is still trying to unload.

whatever the customer wants, period.

It's still a fact that NIKON had all ten competition slots and half of the gallery slots on this site.

I just checked again, the Sony A7R II has shown up at the bottom of the competition list. It's got a long way to go to catch up to the 15 year old Nikon D40. Somebody has been busy since this thread began,

again, what's your point?

nikon stock prices have plunged in the last year, from $12.40 to $6.44 a share.

i would expect stability to be a factor for the a.p.

The point is the images produced and published here by photographers. You can worry about stock prices, etc.

BTW, Nikon makes the machines that makes the sensors.

When I take part in a thread I usually take a look at the other posters gallery to see if I find value in their input based on the evidence of their expertise. That's sometimes hard to find in a forum on buying advice.

I don't subscribe to this idea that the value of a person's input should, or even can, be judged from the photos in their gallery. As I mentioned in my other post in this thread, there are many members here who do not use the gallery for a variety of reasons. Some are excellent photographers; some are highly skilled professionals. The absence of quality of photos in a gallery may not be any indication at all of their skills or expertise.

There will also be some people who know a lot about gear, and can give great advice in this forum, but not be too good at actually using the gear. DPR is a strongly gear oriented site after all. There's also some people who are so loyal to a particular brand or format that they cannot give helpful and objective advice to save themselves - but might take great photos with their beloved gear.

 New Day Rising's gear list:New Day Rising's gear list
Sony RX100 Nikon D50 Canon EOS 550D Sony Alpha NEX-6 Fujifilm X-T1 +13 more
Justfocus
Justfocus Junior Member • Posts: 46
Re: I just noticed something
1

BGD300V1 wrote:

Justfocus wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

nikon abandoned the v1 series back in 2018, so what is your point?

We all post opinions; the folks who post photos in challenges and galleries shoot Nikon.

Yes, in *these* galleries. Doesn’t necessarily represent the rest of the world. This is one section (microcosm?) of the photo-taking population.

Well, yes. I simply stated a fact based on the statistics from this general photography site.

Feel free to show other general sites with differences.

What does that tell you? Do you think DSLRs produce better image quality than mirrorless regardless of FF or not? What are you inferring?

BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something

Justfocus wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

Justfocus wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

BGD300V1 wrote:

Surprisingly, the D5300 is top of the list followed closely by the D40. The D500 comes in third, The first full frame doesn't show up until 6th place with the D610 holding that spot. It's beaten out of the top half of the ranking by the D5200 and Nikon 1 V1.

nikon abandoned the v1 series back in 2018, so what is your point?

We all post opinions; the folks who post photos in challenges and galleries shoot Nikon.

Yes, in *these* galleries. Doesn’t necessarily represent the rest of the world. This is one section (microcosm?) of the photo-taking population.

Well, yes. I simply stated a fact based on the statistics from this general photography site.

Feel free to show other general sites with differences.

What does that tell you? Do you think DSLRs produce better image quality than mirrorless regardless of FF or not? What are you inferring?

The technology is so close and manufacturers are chasing each other with 'new and improved' product cycles that it makes little incremental difference to the ability to produce good images.

If you are interested in your images, sharing them, getting critiques, and learning you do that through the galleries, competitions and posting on genre boards.  Obviously the vendor boards will show a predominance of their product and DPReview doesn't show statistics on the genre boards.

If you are interested in the technology you can find enough incremental differences to believe that they have some significance in the product of your photography.

My point all along has nothing to do with the technology.  It has to do with the photographers sharing their images as a part of a learning and sharing experience.

I've actually been observing those stats for a week or so and as you not, they are flexible.  Interestingly, since starting this thread there has been an influx of Canon and Sony images that were absent before it was begun.

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I'm a photographer, Jim, not a graphic artist!
My photo blog: http://birdsnbugs.com
RF Stock Portfolio - http://www.dreamstime.com/resp129611

 BGD300V1's gear list:BGD300V1's gear list
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BGD300V1
OP BGD300V1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,488
Re: I just noticed something

Those are certainly valid points but didn't explain the preponderance of one make over another.  You would think the concerns would cross marque boundaries.

-- hide signature --

I'm a photographer, Jim, not a graphic artist!
My photo blog: http://birdsnbugs.com
RF Stock Portfolio - http://www.dreamstime.com/resp129611

 BGD300V1's gear list:BGD300V1's gear list
Nikon 1 V2 Nikon 1 J5 Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon Z50 +12 more
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