Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 6,288
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/this-is-the-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-the-nifty-fifty-for-the-eos-r/

Wow it's tiny! But no IS it seems...

And no Macro. This cheapo lens is precursor to the next entry-level R body (along with that rumored slow standard zoom).

I don’t need either feature, but no IS means Canon is nudging people toward IBIS bodies. Or, could all of the future R’s perhaps have IBIS? Or is Canon just trying to maximize R5/R6 sales while they can.

I do hope this lens focuses faster than the new RF 85/2. Personally I’d rather be spending $600+ for a good 50/1.4 USM with ultra-quick AF.

It's becoming the problem of RF primes: no fast focusing options. It's either a budget stm or a too large elements L.

That's what I'm seeing too. I'd really like a very fast 50 and a fast 85 for my sports (the RF 35 should be adequate).

Has anybody here used the RF 50/1.2L + R5 for fast-moving sports? Is the 50L’s AF fast enough?

R2

I recommend you watch the review of Christopher Frost for this, and no, it isn't very promising.

The more i think about it the more i'm starting to believe i've bought the best lens i could right away, and all i need is the R5 to get more sticky AF tracking.

Yeah, looks like your Sigma 50mm Art may be in my future.

R2

For the same reason i might not replace it ever by the Canon RF 50mm f/1.2 USM. At that price it gotta be perfect, and slower AF isn't (for me).   And if that one won't ever come there's a reason to keep the Samyang 50mm f/1.2. It might - with some practice - even work as good as a slow AF lens when paired with a body with stellar eye confirmation. And that whole MF + focus assist is fun. I like to do that. It's reminds me of my first body, a rangefinder.

OTOH: the thing is big and heavy. And it won't ever be as good as a fast AF lens for portraits. I doubt if it will always make it to the bag.....

The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a nice lens, but again, it's not good enough for portraits for me..... and that was the main reason to get it.

What do you think? Should I return both? It would get me 1350 euro closer to the R5. And if I face the fact i have sell the 50-100 f/1.8 too, all together it becomes a serious step closer to the R5.

The Samyang 50mm is fun to shoot with. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm  is so so. And if the bokeh is harsh, at the end of the day i will just use the 70mm@f/2.8 of my EF 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, as i need a light weight portrait lens to improve on that bokeh.

I find it hard to make up my mind with all these less than perfect options......  I keep going in circles. Now i start doubting if the RF 50mm f/1.2 would be too slow for my shooting, or if it could be responsive enough for me......................

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R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 22,332
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/this-is-the-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-the-nifty-fifty-for-the-eos-r/

Wow it's tiny! But no IS it seems...

And no Macro. This cheapo lens is precursor to the next entry-level R body (along with that rumored slow standard zoom).

I don’t need either feature, but no IS means Canon is nudging people toward IBIS bodies. Or, could all of the future R’s perhaps have IBIS? Or is Canon just trying to maximize R5/R6 sales while they can.

I do hope this lens focuses faster than the new RF 85/2. Personally I’d rather be spending $600+ for a good 50/1.4 USM with ultra-quick AF.

It's becoming the problem of RF primes: no fast focusing options. It's either a budget stm or a too large elements L.

That's what I'm seeing too. I'd really like a very fast 50 and a fast 85 for my sports (the RF 35 should be adequate).

Has anybody here used the RF 50/1.2L + R5 for fast-moving sports? Is the 50L’s AF fast enough?

R2

I recommend you watch the review of Christopher Frost for this, and no, it isn't very promising.

The more i think about it the more i'm starting to believe i've bought the best lens i could right away, and all i need is the R5 to get more sticky AF tracking.

Yeah, looks like your Sigma 50mm Art may be in my future.

R2

For the same reason i might not replace it ever by the Canon RF 50mm f/1.2 USM. At that price it gotta be perfect, and slower AF isn't (for me).

I hear you.  There might be a little hope here though.

There are two different speed characteristics that need to be evaluated.  One is initial focus acquisition speed (the RF 35/1.8 is fast, the RF 85/2 is slow).  We won't know how the RF 50/1.8 is until we get it in our hands.

The other is the tracking speed after focus acquisition, and also while shooting a burst.  Even though initial acquisition speed may be slow, if a lens can keep up once you hit the shooting stage, its utility may be adequate.

The slim amount of hope I have for the RF 85/2 would be a firmware update.  Would the little hamsters propelling the lens be able to run faster?  Is the motor not strong enough?  The gearing too low?  Too much possibility of overshoot?

I do hope the new little 50 will be speedy.

And if that one won't ever come there's a reason to keep the Samyang 50mm f/1.2. It might - with some practice - even work as good as a slow AF lens when paired with a body with stellar eye confirmation. And that whole MF + focus assist is fun. I like to do that. It's reminds me of my first body, a rangefinder.

I started out with a Canon rangefinder too!  However I shot too many decades using manual focus.  I’m never going back.

OTOH: the thing is big and heavy. And it won't ever be as good as a fast AF lens for portraits. I doubt if it will always make it to the bag.....

Which lens?

The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a nice lens, but again, it's not good enough for portraits for me..... and that was the main reason to get it.

What do you think? Should I return both? It would get me 1350 euro closer to the R5. And if I face the fact i have sell the 50-100 f/1.8 too, all together it becomes a serious step closer to the R5.

The Samyang 50mm is fun to shoot with. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is so so. And if the bokeh is harsh, at the end of the day i will just use the 70mm@f/2.8 of my EF 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, as i need a light weight portrait lens to improve on that bokeh.

I find it hard to make up my mind with all these less than perfect options...... I keep going in circles. Now i start doubting if the RF 50mm f/1.2 would be too slow for my shooting, or if it could be responsive enough for me......................

Don’t keep what doesn’t suit you (as long as you’ve vetted them thoroughly).   Put your money towards this beast of a camera instead.  The R5 really encourages the use of very sharp large aperture lenses (right up your alley!   ).

R2

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 18,118
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/this-is-the-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-the-nifty-fifty-for-the-eos-r/

Wow it's tiny! But no IS it seems...

And no Macro. This cheapo lens is precursor to the next entry-level R body (along with that rumored slow standard zoom).

I don’t need either feature, but no IS means Canon is nudging people toward IBIS bodies. Or, could all of the future R’s perhaps have IBIS? Or is Canon just trying to maximize R5/R6 sales while they can.

I do hope this lens focuses faster than the new RF 85/2. Personally I’d rather be spending $600+ for a good 50/1.4 USM with ultra-quick AF.

It's becoming the problem of RF primes: no fast focusing options. It's either a budget stm or a too large elements L.

That's what I'm seeing too. I'd really like a very fast 50 and a fast 85 for my sports (the RF 35 should be adequate).

Has anybody here used the RF 50/1.2L + R5 for fast-moving sports? Is the 50L’s AF fast enough?

R2

I recommend you watch the review of Christopher Frost for this, and no, it isn't very promising.

The more i think about it the more i'm starting to believe i've bought the best lens i could right away, and all i need is the R5 to get more sticky AF tracking.

Yeah, looks like your Sigma 50mm Art may be in my future.

R2

For the same reason i might not replace it ever by the Canon RF 50mm f/1.2 USM. At that price it gotta be perfect, and slower AF isn't (for me). And if that one won't ever come there's a reason to keep the Samyang 50mm f/1.2. It might - with some practice - even work as good as a slow AF lens when paired with a body with stellar eye confirmation. And that whole MF + focus assist is fun. I like to do that. It's reminds me of my first body, a rangefinder.

OTOH: the thing is big and heavy. And it won't ever be as good as a fast AF lens for portraits. I doubt if it will always make it to the bag.....

The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a nice lens, but again, it's not good enough for portraits for me..... and that was the main reason to get it.

What do you think? Should I return both? It would get me 1350 euro closer to the R5. And if I face the fact i have sell the 50-100 f/1.8 too, all together it becomes a serious step closer to the R5.

The Samyang 50mm is fun to shoot with. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is so so. And if the bokeh is harsh, at the end of the day i will just use the 70mm@f/2.8 of my EF 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, as i need a light weight portrait lens to improve on that bokeh.

I find it hard to make up my mind with all these less than perfect options...... I keep going in circles. Now i start doubting if the RF 50mm f/1.2 would be too slow for my shooting, or if it could be responsive enough for me......................

Tell me more about the Samyang 50/1.2. I can't stop thinking about it. I know the IQ and rendering are amazing. I think I can deal with the weight. What is the shooting experience like? What focus assist tools do you use? I'm torn between that and the Zeiss 2/50 Makro. I might not bother with the RF 50 1.8 at all.

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 sportyaccordy's gear list:sportyaccordy's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EF 135mm F2.8 SF Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro +1 more
thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 6,288
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

sportyaccordy wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/this-is-the-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-the-nifty-fifty-for-the-eos-r/

Wow it's tiny! But no IS it seems...

And no Macro. This cheapo lens is precursor to the next entry-level R body (along with that rumored slow standard zoom).

I don’t need either feature, but no IS means Canon is nudging people toward IBIS bodies. Or, could all of the future R’s perhaps have IBIS? Or is Canon just trying to maximize R5/R6 sales while they can.

I do hope this lens focuses faster than the new RF 85/2. Personally I’d rather be spending $600+ for a good 50/1.4 USM with ultra-quick AF.

It's becoming the problem of RF primes: no fast focusing options. It's either a budget stm or a too large elements L.

That's what I'm seeing too. I'd really like a very fast 50 and a fast 85 for my sports (the RF 35 should be adequate).

Has anybody here used the RF 50/1.2L + R5 for fast-moving sports? Is the 50L’s AF fast enough?

R2

I recommend you watch the review of Christopher Frost for this, and no, it isn't very promising.

The more i think about it the more i'm starting to believe i've bought the best lens i could right away, and all i need is the R5 to get more sticky AF tracking.

Yeah, looks like your Sigma 50mm Art may be in my future.

R2

For the same reason i might not replace it ever by the Canon RF 50mm f/1.2 USM. At that price it gotta be perfect, and slower AF isn't (for me). And if that one won't ever come there's a reason to keep the Samyang 50mm f/1.2. It might - with some practice - even work as good as a slow AF lens when paired with a body with stellar eye confirmation. And that whole MF + focus assist is fun. I like to do that. It's reminds me of my first body, a rangefinder.

OTOH: the thing is big and heavy. And it won't ever be as good as a fast AF lens for portraits. I doubt if it will always make it to the bag.....

The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a nice lens, but again, it's not good enough for portraits for me..... and that was the main reason to get it.

What do you think? Should I return both? It would get me 1350 euro closer to the R5. And if I face the fact i have sell the 50-100 f/1.8 too, all together it becomes a serious step closer to the R5.

The Samyang 50mm is fun to shoot with. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is so so. And if the bokeh is harsh, at the end of the day i will just use the 70mm@f/2.8 of my EF 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, as i need a light weight portrait lens to improve on that bokeh.

I find it hard to make up my mind with all these less than perfect options...... I keep going in circles. Now i start doubting if the RF 50mm f/1.2 would be too slow for my shooting, or if it could be responsive enough for me......................

Tell me more about the Samyang 50/1.2. I can't stop thinking about it. I know the IQ and rendering are amazing. I think I can deal with the weight. What is the shooting experience like? What focus assist tools do you use? I'm torn between that and the Zeiss 2/50 Makro. I might not bother with the RF 50 1.8 at all.

At wider apertures its better than the Sigma f/1.4 Art. The Art is crazy sharp from f/2.0 and very usable at f/1.8, whereas f/1.4 is so so. The Samyang f/1.2 is crazy sharp from f/1.4 and still very good wide open. Samyang at f/1.2 is better than the Sigma Art at f/1.8.

The Samyang doesn't like very close focusing distances so much. It shines at a bit longer distances. I've posted some pics here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4523239?page=3#forum-post-64473779

In the EXIF you see "Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM". That's a trick of Samyang to benefit from the in camera lens corrections of that lens (I use it only to correct (somewhat) for vignetting.

The focus assist of the R (the thing with the 2 grey triangles becoming one green one) is nice to get focus confirmation. You will even get eye focus confirmation: the camera finds and tracks the eye, while the focus assist tells you if that eye is in focus. It only suffers from the same problems as the R does with AF too: flipping to other faces and eyes, loosing the eye even when a face turns away slightly, saying it's in focus at very long distances while it's obviously not, etc.  On rare occasions it gets confused a bit more because "it waits for your hunting" to find focus, while the camera can't give you the command to let the lens hunt (I hope you get what i mean here....).

A expect the lens to give a more flawless experience on the R5. That body is way more intelligent with tracking the (right) eye, and that will also help with eye focus confirmation. With a bit of practice you might even learn how much focus throw is needed at certain "distances between 2 grey traingles", making it kind of usable for candid portraits, as long as you can accept you'll miss some shots because you will never be as fast as good AF.

I got mine for 700 euro from the UK. For the IQ that's a bargain.

Look, i don't need this lens. It's not the most practical solution. But it's a lot of fun! And the lens gives more resolution rather than a whole lot of contrast. That can be a good thing. I'm finding the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm might give a stronger high ISO noise appearance (could be perception) compared to other lenses at the same ISO settings. Contrast is nice for the overall look, but for true pixel peepers (yes I'm an amateur) it's not a substitute for sharpness, and it might even hurt sharpness a bit, leave alone bokeh.

About bokeh: the Samyang performs best wide open. The aperture blades aren't great for giving round bokeh balls. Fortunately you can use it wide open without hesitation as far as IQ goes. However, if you want to stop down often you might want something else (which makes sense anyway, as that other lens will often have AF and will be a whole lot lighter   (however, it's another 50mm in your bag.... bringing you close to 2Kg of 50mm in your bag......(unless you buy that pancake   ))).

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 18,118
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

Ah.... you're saying a lot of the things I want to hear about this lens. It's weird to compare this to the 50 1.8, but frankly most of my AF needs are already covered. This 50 could be an "experience" lens... something to go beyond just covering my typical photographic needs. I just wish it weren't so big and expensive. If it were, say, a 50/2 for half the price and weight with the same build and image quality I would own it. A lot of times I stop my 50s down to F/2.8, mainly for IQ.

I'm kind of torn between this, the 2/50 Makro I mentioned and maybe some other Zeiss MF lens. But they are all so heavy and expensive..............

What is the focusing experience like? Which of the focus assist tools do you use? Talk me through how you focus a shot and what kinds of subjects you can and can't capture. I have a 3 year old and an infant I'm hoping to get some shots with for this lens. I don't mind big glass on my R but I'm still torn. $800 or so for a MF lens is nuts. But I rented a CV 40/1.2 on my old Sony FE body and the shooting experience was amazing. Somehow that felt like it was worth their asking price.

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Canon EOS R Canon EF 135mm F2.8 SF Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro +1 more
Dan W Regular Member • Posts: 359
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/upcoming-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-lens-shows-up-at-certification-authority/

This is the lens I'm still waiting for. Based on the patent, it looks to be about 1.2" (vs the 40mm pancake that's 0.9"). I wonder if they're delaying it due to the loss in sales of the 50 1.2 that'll most definitely happen to some degree. I mean, I'd consider getting the 50 1.2 right now if there was no 1.8 pancake rumor.

The 1.2 is large, expensive and awesome. Pancakes have the advantage of small, light and cheap but also at a f2.8, slow by comparison. Never heard of a 1.8 pancake but who knows, I never heard of a f2.0 zoom either and canon did it with there 28-70...

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Canon EOS R Canon RF 50mm F1.2L USM Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Canon RF 70-200mm F2.8L IS USM
SteveinLouisville
SteveinLouisville Contributing Member • Posts: 501
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

Dan W wrote:

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/upcoming-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-lens-shows-up-at-certification-authority/

This is the lens I'm still waiting for. Based on the patent, it looks to be about 1.2" (vs the 40mm pancake that's 0.9"). I wonder if they're delaying it due to the loss in sales of the 50 1.2 that'll most definitely happen to some degree. I mean, I'd consider getting the 50 1.2 right now if there was no 1.8 pancake rumor.

The 1.2 is large, expensive and awesome. Pancakes have the advantage of small, light and cheap but also at a f2.8, slow by comparison. Never heard of a 1.8 pancake but who knows, I never heard of a f2.0 zoom either and canon did it with there 28-70...

My little 40mm pancake is sharp as a pin. Amazing value for such high quality optics. I haven't seen any testing, but I would guess the pancake is as sharp as the 2.8L zoom at 2.8. It's that good.

Dan W Regular Member • Posts: 359
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

Totally agree with image quality. I have that lens too but sold off my 5D3 for the R last year so don't use it anymore really. I have the RF35 that is about the same size as the pancake would be with the adapter. Plus the 35 is faster and has IS. So when going light that's what I use today.

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Canon EOS R Canon RF 50mm F1.2L USM Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Canon RF 70-200mm F2.8L IS USM
sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 18,118
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

I have the 40 in a drawer somewhere. It is optically excellent but a) F/2.8 is too slow to deal with the hassles of a prime and b) the bokeh is terrible.

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Canon EOS R Canon EF 135mm F2.8 SF Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro +1 more
thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 6,288
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

sportyaccordy wrote:

Ah.... you're saying a lot of the things I want to hear about this lens. It's weird to compare this to the 50 1.8, but frankly most of my AF needs are already covered. This 50 could be an "experience" lens... something to go beyond just covering my typical photographic needs. I just wish it weren't so big and expensive.

Try to find a nice deal. I have mine for 700 euro, but now the price went up to 850.......

The lens is big and heavy, but it's not front heavy at all. The center of gravity in combination with the positioning of the focus ring and the space the adapter provides for the fingers of the right hand, it's all nice.

If it were, say, a 50/2 for half the price and weight with the same build and image quality I would own it. A lot of times I stop my 50s down to F/2.8, mainly for IQ.

As for now it's only an assumption the RF 50mm f/1.8 will AF slow. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is o.k. as long it doesn't hunt. 50mm is even less challenging, and there's not a whole lot of glass moving in there. If Canon managed to put some caffeine in it it could be good enough for a lot of cases. And in that case i would shoot at f/2.8 with that "almost pakcake" and use the Samyang for f/1.2 and f/1.4. Yes, that's a lens change sometimes. But the good thing is you can leave the bulkiness at home when you don't want it, and you can't do that if you throw all the money in the Canon RF f/1.2.

If you plan to stop down the Samyang you might get disappointed by the not very round bokeh ball shapes.

I'm kind of torn between this, the 2/50 Makro I mentioned and maybe some other Zeiss MF lens. But they are all so heavy and expensive..............

What is the focusing experience like? Which of the focus assist tools do you use?

Pink AF menu, tab 2, second option "focus guide" turned on. (The first option  "peaking" is useless. Don't use that.)

Pink AF menu, tab 1, second option: Face + tracking.

Pink AF menu, tab 1, 4th option "eye AF": enable.

You can see for yourself how this works for you by just using an AF lens setting the AF-MF-switch to "MF" and turn the focus ring.

If eye AF doesn't work well in a certain situation, switch to smallest possible single "A"F point. Here comes the anoying thing: if you want to switch from Face + tracking to single "A"F-point you can't do that with an assigned button as long as you're in MF-mode. You will have to change to AF mode (and back afterwards) before you can change that, or you will have to do that in the menu. I prefer the menu as it's faster. It's a design flaw obviously. Canon forgot about these modes not only being important for AF, but also for MF focus confirmation.......

Talk me through how you focus a shot and what kinds of subjects you can and can't capture. I have a 3 year old and an infant I'm hoping to get some shots with for this lens.

3 years..... That can be tough ;).  My kids are 4 years and 7 years now. When sitting at the table or on the couch i would estimate the hitrate at f/1.2 a bit more than 50% on the R, and i wouldn't be surprised if - with some practice - that would come close to 80% if only the eye tracking of the focus confirmation would be as smart as the eye tracking of the R6 and R5 in these cases.

When running around the speed of you as a photographer will be a limiting factor, so if that's what you want to shoot..... i wouldn't buy this lens for that.

I don't mind big glass on my R but I'm still torn. $800 or so for a MF lens is nuts. But I rented a CV 40/1.2 on my old Sony FE body and the shooting experience was amazing. Somehow that felt like it was worth their asking price.

It's a cine-lens optical design. For the optics it's worth it (a bargain), just make sure you can live with size, weight, and MF.

If a 3 years old kid is your main goal......   I'm not sure if you're going to be happy, unless you're satisfied with pictures of situations only where the kid is sitting. You will manage to get nice shots in these kind of situations. At the end of the day, if you want 3 nice shots and your hitrate is 100% you take 3 pictures. If your hitrate is 50% you take 6, and with 25% you take 12 pictures. Of course you have to multiply that with the factor not every moment turns out to be a nice one, but with your own kid you have chances enough, so hitrate isn't always that important, and for special non repeatable moments you just pick another lens.

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 6,288
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/this-is-the-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-the-nifty-fifty-for-the-eos-r/

Wow it's tiny! But no IS it seems...

And no Macro. This cheapo lens is precursor to the next entry-level R body (along with that rumored slow standard zoom).

I don’t need either feature, but no IS means Canon is nudging people toward IBIS bodies. Or, could all of the future R’s perhaps have IBIS? Or is Canon just trying to maximize R5/R6 sales while they can.

I do hope this lens focuses faster than the new RF 85/2. Personally I’d rather be spending $600+ for a good 50/1.4 USM with ultra-quick AF.

It's becoming the problem of RF primes: no fast focusing options. It's either a budget stm or a too large elements L.

That's what I'm seeing too. I'd really like a very fast 50 and a fast 85 for my sports (the RF 35 should be adequate).

Has anybody here used the RF 50/1.2L + R5 for fast-moving sports? Is the 50L’s AF fast enough?

R2

I recommend you watch the review of Christopher Frost for this, and no, it isn't very promising.

The more i think about it the more i'm starting to believe i've bought the best lens i could right away, and all i need is the R5 to get more sticky AF tracking.

Yeah, looks like your Sigma 50mm Art may be in my future.

R2

For the same reason i might not replace it ever by the Canon RF 50mm f/1.2 USM. At that price it gotta be perfect, and slower AF isn't (for me).

I hear you. There might be a little hope here though.

There are two different speed characteristics that need to be evaluated. One is initial focus acquisition speed (the RF 35/1.8 is fast, the RF 85/2 is slow). We won't know how the RF 50/1.8 is until we get it in our hands.

That's right. Thanks for highlighting that for me.

The other is the tracking speed after focus acquisition, and also while shooting a burst. Even though initial acquisition speed may be slow, if a lens can keep up once you hit the shooting stage, its utility may be adequate.

Both the RF f/1.2 USM and RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm might meet this requirement for me and my cases.....  as long as there's no hunting.

The slim amount of hope I have for the RF 85/2 would be a firmware update. Would the little hamsters propelling the lens be able to run faster? Is the motor not strong enough? The gearing too low? Too much possibility of overshoot?

I decided to keep the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm, as it adds enough to justify the little space in the bag, and as long it doesn't hunt AF speed is for the second characteristic you pointed out. For me that second characteristic is waaaay more important than the first one.

I do hope the new little 50 will be speedy.

We'll see.

And if that one won't ever come there's a reason to keep the Samyang 50mm f/1.2. It might - with some practice - even work as good as a slow AF lens when paired with a body with stellar eye confirmation. And that whole MF + focus assist is fun. I like to do that. It's reminds me of my first body, a rangefinder.

I started out with a Canon rangefinder too! However I shot too many decades using manual focus. I’m never going back.

OTOH: the thing is big and heavy. And it won't ever be as good as a fast AF lens for portraits. I doubt if it will always make it to the bag.....

Which lens?

The Samyang is big and heavy.

The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a nice lens, but again, it's not good enough for portraits for me..... and that was the main reason to get it.

What do you think? Should I return both? It would get me 1350 euro closer to the R5. And if I face the fact i have sell the 50-100 f/1.8 too, all together it becomes a serious step closer to the R5.

The Samyang 50mm is fun to shoot with. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is so so. And if the bokeh is harsh, at the end of the day i will just use the 70mm@f/2.8 of my EF 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, as i need a light weight portrait lens to improve on that bokeh.

I find it hard to make up my mind with all these less than perfect options...... I keep going in circles. Now i start doubting if the RF 50mm f/1.2 would be too slow for my shooting, or if it could be responsive enough for me......................

Don’t keep what doesn’t suit you (as long as you’ve vetted them thoroughly). Put your money towards this beast of a camera instead. The R5 really encourages the use of very sharp large aperture lenses (right up your alley! ).

You are right, but I'm going to take the wrong decision: I will keep both lenses. The RF85mm f/2.0 IS stm because it's very practical (can leave the 105mm at home or in the car), and the Samyang 50mm f/1.2 because it's not (it slows me down in a very good way).

I expect the "AF problems" of the RF 85mm f/2.0 to be solved with a next body and it's useful enough in the mean time. The Samyang might get redundant once i would replace the Sigma f/1.4 Art for the RF 50mm f/1.2, however, as i should get the R5 first it's make the waiting for the RF 50mm f/1.2 a bit easier. At 700 euro it's a relatively small sin against long term goals in favor of short term goals. The price is now 850 euro, and if I return it for 700 i may very well regret that......

I'm going to sell the 50-100mm f/1.8 Art. Was that a decision? Yes. It took me a while to make that decision, now I'm finally taking it.

Thanks for your advice. Highly appreciated.

R2

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R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 22,332
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

thunder storm wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

Ah.... you're saying a lot of the things I want to hear about this lens. It's weird to compare this to the 50 1.8, but frankly most of my AF needs are already covered. This 50 could be an "experience" lens... something to go beyond just covering my typical photographic needs. I just wish it weren't so big and expensive.

Try to find a nice deal. I have mine for 700 euro, but now the price went up to 850.......

The lens is big and heavy, but it's not front heavy at all. The center of gravity in combination with the positioning of the focus ring and the space the adapter provides for the fingers of the right hand, it's all nice.

If it were, say, a 50/2 for half the price and weight with the same build and image quality I would own it. A lot of times I stop my 50s down to F/2.8, mainly for IQ.

As for now it's only an assumption the RF 50mm f/1.8 will AF slow. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is o.k. as long it doesn't hunt. 50mm is even less challenging, and there's not a whole lot of glass moving in there. If Canon managed to put some caffeine in it it could be good enough for a lot of cases. And in that case i would shoot at f/2.8 with that "almost pakcake" and use the Samyang for f/1.2 and f/1.4. Yes, that's a lens change sometimes. But the good thing is you can leave the bulkiness at home when you don't want it, and you can't do that if you throw all the money in the Canon RF f/1.2.

If you plan to stop down the Samyang you might get disappointed by the not very round bokeh ball shapes.

I'm kind of torn between this, the 2/50 Makro I mentioned and maybe some other Zeiss MF lens. But they are all so heavy and expensive..............

What is the focusing experience like? Which of the focus assist tools do you use?

Pink AF menu, tab 2, second option "focus guide" turned on. (The first option "peaking" is useless. Don't use that.)

Pink AF menu, tab 1, second option: Face + tracking.

Pink AF menu, tab 1, 4th option "eye AF": enable.

You can see for yourself how this works for you by just using an AF lens setting the AF-MF-switch to "MF" and turn the focus ring.

If eye AF doesn't work well in a certain situation, switch to smallest possible single "A"F point. Here comes the anoying thing: if you want to switch from Face + tracking to single "A"F-point you can't do that with an assigned button as long as you're in MF-mode. You will have to change to AF mode (and back afterwards) before you can change that, or you will have to do that in the menu. I prefer the menu as it's faster. It's a design flaw obviously. Canon forgot about these modes not only being important for AF, but also for MF focus confirmation.......

Talk me through how you focus a shot and what kinds of subjects you can and can't capture. I have a 3 year old and an infant I'm hoping to get some shots with for this lens.

3 years..... That can be tough ;). My kids are 4 years and 7 years now. When sitting at the table or on the couch i would estimate the hitrate at f/1.2 a bit more than 50% on the R, and i wouldn't be surprised if - with some practice - that would come close to 80% if only the eye tracking of the focus confirmation would be as smart as the eye tracking of the R6 and R5 in these cases.

When running around the speed of you as a photographer will be a limiting factor, so if that's what you want to shoot..... i wouldn't buy this lens for that.

I don't mind big glass on my R but I'm still torn. $800 or so for a MF lens is nuts. But I rented a CV 40/1.2 on my old Sony FE body and the shooting experience was amazing. Somehow that felt like it was worth their asking price.

It's a cine-lens optical design. For the optics it's worth it (a bargain), just make sure you can live with size, weight, and MF.

If a 3 years old kid is your main goal...... I'm not sure if you're going to be happy, unless you're satisfied with pictures of situations only where the kid is sitting. You will manage to get nice shots in these kind of situations. At the end of the day, if you want 3 nice shots and your hitrate is 100% you take 3 pictures. If your hitrate is 50% you take 6, and with 25% you take 12 pictures. Of course you have to multiply that with the factor not every moment turns out to be a nice one, but with your own kid you have chances enough, so hitrate isn't always that important, and for special non repeatable moments you just pick another lens.

Thanks for the info ‘Storm. I’ve been following along.  Some outstanding manual focus lenses out there!

Personally I can’t bring myself to focus manually any more though (esp chasing rugrats). I did for a couple of decades.  In the immortal words of Lawrence Bourne III “It's not that I can't help these people. It's just I don't want to.”  

And with kids, it’s that “moment” that is most important (esp when shooting candids).  For me, AF is a necessity.

Note: The new RF 50/1.8 STM might indeed turn out to be a fast focuser.  Lens (element) size isn’t necessarily a good determiner of focusing speed tho.  For instance the little 40 STM is fairly slow, whereas the 400/2.8 is a relative speedster.

R2

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Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

thunder storm wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

.

I hear you. There might be a little hope here though.

There are two different speed characteristics that need to be evaluated. One is initial focus acquisition speed (the RF 35/1.8 is fast, the RF 85/2 is slow). We won't know how the RF 50/1.8 is until we get it in our hands.

Wow you are a fast typist. I think we posted simultaneously!

That's right. Thanks for highlighting that for me.

We can certainly hope. The EF 50/1.8 STM was quite well behaved, esp compared to its older sibling (mark II).

The other is the tracking speed after focus acquisition, and also while shooting a burst. Even though initial acquisition speed may be slow, if a lens can keep up once you hit the shooting stage, its utility may be adequate.

Both the RF f/1.2 USM and RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm might meet this requirement for me and my cases..... as long as there's no hunting.

+1 Indeed for most types of shooting.

The slim amount of hope I have for the RF 85/2 would be a firmware update. Would the little hamsters propelling the lens be able to run faster? Is the motor not strong enough? The gearing too low? Too much possibility of overshoot?

I decided to keep the RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm, as it adds enough to justify the little space in the bag, and as long it doesn't hunt AF speed is for the second characteristic you pointed out. For me that second characteristic is waaaay more important than the first one.

Good move. I’ll be keeping mine too. It fills a role for me too (non-sports).

I do hope the new little 50 will be speedy.

We'll see.

And if that one won't ever come there's a reason to keep the Samyang 50mm f/1.2. It might - with some practice - even work as good as a slow AF lens when paired with a body with stellar eye confirmation. And that whole MF + focus assist is fun. I like to do that. It's reminds me of my first body, a rangefinder.

I started out with a Canon rangefinder too! However I shot too many decades using manual focus. I’m never going back.

OTOH: the thing is big and heavy. And it won't ever be as good as a fast AF lens for portraits. I doubt if it will always make it to the bag.....

Which lens?

The Samyang is big and heavy.

Ahh, thought that was the one you were referring to.

The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is a nice lens, but again, it's not good enough for portraits for me..... and that was the main reason to get it.

What do you think? Should I return both? It would get me 1350 euro closer to the R5. And if I face the fact i have sell the 50-100 f/1.8 too, all together it becomes a serious step closer to the R5.

The Samyang 50mm is fun to shoot with. The RF 85mm f/2.0 IS stm is so so. And if the bokeh is harsh, at the end of the day i will just use the 70mm@f/2.8 of my EF 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, as i need a light weight portrait lens to improve on that bokeh.

I find it hard to make up my mind with all these less than perfect options...... I keep going in circles. Now i start doubting if the RF 50mm f/1.2 would be too slow for my shooting, or if it could be responsive enough for me......................

Don’t keep what doesn’t suit you (as long as you’ve vetted them thoroughly). Put your money towards this beast of a camera instead. The R5 really encourages the use of very sharp large aperture lenses (right up your alley! ).

You are right, but I'm going to take the wrong decision: I will keep both lenses. The RF85mm f/2.0 IS stm because it's very practical (can leave the 105mm at home or in the car), and the Samyang 50mm f/1.2 because it's not (it slows me down in a very good way).

I like that approach.

I expect the "AF problems" of the RF 85mm f/2.0 to be solved with a next body and it's useful enough in the mean time.

I haven’t shot with it enough on the R5 to provide you with any good feedback yet. I’ll post when I get more shots under my belt. Maybe when you’re shooting close-ups you might benefit from using a slightly larger AF frame that way keep it from hunting as much?

The Samyang might get redundant once i would replace the Sigma f/1.4 Art for the RF 50mm f/1.2, however, as i should get the R5 first it's make the waiting for the RF 50mm f/1.2 a bit easier.

The RF 50/1.2 was next on my wish list too (after the little RF 50/1.8). I’m re-thinking my roadmap though, as my shooting needs are still in flux. I just picked up the handy little 24-105/4L!

At 700 euro it's a relatively small sin against long term goals in favor of short term goals. The price is now 850 euro, and if I return it for 700 i may very well regret that......

I'm going to sell the 50-100mm f/1.8 Art. Was that a decision? Yes. It took me a while to make that decision, now I'm finally taking it.

Way to keep the main objective centered in your sights.

Thanks for your advice. Highly appreciated.

Likewise. Thanks for the info on all these lenses I don’t have!

R2

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Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

BTW anyone else notice that this new RF 50 doesn’t have a separate control ring?  But a switch...

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MikeJ9116 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,786
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

R2D2 wrote:

BTW anyone else notice that this new RF 50 doesn’t have a separate control ring? But a switch...

Canon did this with the RF 24-240mm and the RF 24-105mm STM lenses. I expect it is going to be common in the budget friendly line of lenses. I don't mind this on the RF 24-240mm lens I have. It is better than not having a dedicated control ring at all. Also, I think the overwhelming majority of people using these lenses will not be using MF and dedicating the ring to the "control" function.

R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 22,332
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

MikeJ9116 wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

BTW anyone else notice that this new RF 50 doesn’t have a separate control ring? But a switch...

Canon did this with the RF 24-240mm and the RF 24-105mm STM lenses.

Ahhh.

I expect it is going to be common in the budget friendly line of lenses.

+1

I don't mind this on the RF 24-240mm lens I have. It is better than not having a dedicated control ring at all.

+2

Also, I think the overwhelming majority of people using these lenses will not be using MF and dedicating the ring to the "control" function.

+3 Like myself! 

R2

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PicPocket Veteran Member • Posts: 4,176
Re: more control rings :)

I wasnt aware of this, but it got me thinking. In theory, they can always have both on some lenses... So, a dedicated control ring + a repurposed one. The default function of repurposed one in AF mode can be full time focus override, but if it can be set to other things, that is even more flexible and customizable system. The ability to customize controls can be a competitive advantage

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 6,288
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

SteveinLouisville wrote:

Dan W wrote:

Jx9 wrote:

https://www.canonwatch.com/upcoming-canon-rf-50mm-f-1-8-stm-lens-shows-up-at-certification-authority/

This is the lens I'm still waiting for. Based on the patent, it looks to be about 1.2" (vs the 40mm pancake that's 0.9"). I wonder if they're delaying it due to the loss in sales of the 50 1.2 that'll most definitely happen to some degree. I mean, I'd consider getting the 50 1.2 right now if there was no 1.8 pancake rumor.

The 1.2 is large, expensive and awesome. Pancakes have the advantage of small, light and cheap but also at a f2.8, slow by comparison. Never heard of a 1.8 pancake but who knows, I never heard of a f2.0 zoom either and canon did it with there 28-70...

My little 40mm pancake is sharp as a pin. Amazing value for such high quality optics. I haven't seen any testing, but I would guess the pancake is as sharp as the 2.8L zoom at 2.8. It's that good.

That is just a lovely picture.

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 6,288
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

sportyaccordy wrote:

I have the 40 in a drawer somewhere. It is optically excellent but a) F/2.8 is too slow to deal with the hassles of a prime and b) the bokeh is terrible.

The bokeh of my f/2.8 zoom isn't great either, and 40mm at least is a bit better than 35...... or.... no... that's just a preference, but we share that preference if my memory serves me well.

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 18,118
Re: Canon RF 50mm f/1.8 pancake?

thunder storm wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

I have the 40 in a drawer somewhere. It is optically excellent but a) F/2.8 is too slow to deal with the hassles of a prime and b) the bokeh is terrible.

The bokeh of my f/2.8 zoom isn't great either, and 40mm at least is a bit better than 35...... or.... no... that's just a preference, but we share that preference if my memory serves me well.

40mm is my favorite FL, which makes the 40 STM that much more frustrating

If it were an F/2 with nice bokeh it would have been perfect. Oh well.............

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