Stackshot or Camranger for 1:1 floral still life?

Is camranger compatible with Sony now? It's been a long time since I've checked, but wasn't at that time.

Josh Photo Bug wrote:

Hi tokyowalker. You should go to this link. Rik Littlefield is one of the experts in technical macro work and developed Zerene Stacker. In summary, it's better to to use stacking by focus rather than stacking by movement. However, every situation is different and it depends on the work that you do. It's in the article. Hope this helps.

http://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacker/docs/troubleshooting/ringversusrail

I second the suggestion of Rik.  He's a true pro, the developer of Zerene, and runs a great website on macro to boot.

Camranger 2 has support for Sony, albeit it doesn’t have automatic programming for focus stacking. You have to calculate your own parameters. Apparently you don’t have to do that with the Canon Nikon or Fujifilm cameras. Nonetheless it does it. Thanks for your reply!

It looks like both, or none at all, are useful tools in the box, depending on the subject . The link that Josh provided is very informative. Apparently quite a few cameras now have “focus bracketing” and “focus stacking” options in camera. I looked at a number of focusing rails, at least four that I could find, and Stackshot was the most well known. Novoflex has a very expensive one, and there is a more budget minded version Wemacro.com. They also have an intriguing microscope focus knob controller and quite a few hard to fine macro bits.

I think for my purposes at 1:1 I will start with the automatic helical focusing bracketing in camera, but I suspect I will need at some point a rail to try at least because from my limited understanding it works quite well with high magnification singularly  isolated subjects.

A bigger issue for me now is figuring out the memory and cpu requirements for the huge files from the Sony A7r4.

thanks a lot for the feedback guys!

Hi Tokyowalker,

I just bought a Sony a7riv, my first camera in a very long time, I actually bought a Sony 90mm macro lens first while deciding on which body to purchase.

I have used both a macro rail and in camera focus. The 90 mm macro has a short throw on the "manual" focus ring, it is not truly manual and rather limited, but you can change the focus point of the lens by using Sony software, Image Edge Remote Control free software. I am running on a Windows 10 Dell laptop connected to the a7riv with WiFi.

• The lens must be set to auto focus.
• Turn in lens stabilization off.
• I would set the focus range on the lens to full.

You can "manually" control the focus point in the Remote control software by changing from AF to MF in the software, not on the lens. You then get a set of active buttons to change the focus:

<<< << < > >> >>>>

This last weekend I did a panoramic focus stack of an ear of Indian corn that was 7 focus stacked images stitched together from a total of 968 raw 61 mp files. I am using a 2 TB external solid state drive. The final image was 182 mp.

I think I get much better results with changing the focus point instead of changing the camera or subject location.

Sony has all the hardware in place, but the software could be significantly improved for automating the capture of images for focus stacking. Right now, with Image Edge Remote, it is push a focus stack button ">>", move the mouse and push the button to take a picture, move the mouse and push the focus button ">>" .... over and over again.

Sony should, at a minimum, enhance the Image Edge software to remove the repetitive aspects of this process and eventually update the software on the a7riv to do the same. We can hope.

Personally, I would not purchase more hardware to solve a problem which has been reduced to a software feature.

Best Regards,

Richard

Josh Photo Bug wrote:

Hi tokyowalker. You really do not need a focus rail for 1:1 magnification. You should be able to at the very least manually move the focus ring in safe enough increments to then stack using Helicon Focus or Zerene Stacker.

There are also inexpensive products which attach to the focus ring of a lens to allow for easier focus movement (see link below). And if you feel that doesn't work and you want a focus rail, you don't necessarily need to go out and get a high-end expensive one which are some of the ones you mention. You can start off with a cheaper slider. Also, you do not necessarily need in-camera focus bracketing. You can tether your camera to a PC and use software to control focus.

In summary, a really good rail for 1:1 is overkill in my opinion. So my suggestion is if you are doing your work indoors you should try tethering your camera to a PC (that is, if your camera allows that). For outdoor work, I would try manually moving the focus ring.

https://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Follow-Focus-Handles-Kit/dp/B00DBB7OTA/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=focus+pull&qid=1601055146&sr=8-13

Hi Josh, thanks for the detailed advice and the link. I don’t plan on doing anything extreme so I won’t be considering the rails yet. They do look useful for insects and perhaps other very small objects but right now I’m only interested in 1:1 floral and fauna. Those focus rings looks very useful for many things actually!

Tethering to a PC/Mac is ideally a goal but there are limited options for automated focus control with the Sony A7R IV at this point. Hopefully there will be better support in the future.

Thanks again for your help , stay safe!

Richard Hanson wrote:

Hi Tokyowalker,

I just bought a Sony a7riv, my first camera in a very long time, I actually bought a Sony 90mm macro lens first while deciding on which body to purchase.

I have used both a macro rail and in camera focus. The 90 mm macro has a short throw on the "manual" focus ring, it is not truly manual and rather limited, but you can change the focus point of the lens by using Sony software, Image Edge Remote Control free software. I am running on a Windows 10 Dell laptop connected to the a7riv with WiFi.

• The lens must be set to auto focus.
• Turn in lens stabilization off.
• I would set the focus range on the lens to full.

You can "manually" control the focus point in the Remote control software by changing from AF to MF in the software, not on the lens. You then get a set of active buttons to change the focus:

<<< << < > >> >>>>

This last weekend I did a panoramic focus stack of an ear of Indian corn that was 7 focus stacked images stitched together from a total of 968 raw 61 mp files. I am using a 2 TB external solid state drive. The final image was 182 mp.

I think I get much better results with changing the focus point instead of changing the camera or subject location.

Sony has all the hardware in place, but the software could be significantly improved for automating the capture of images for focus stacking. Right now, with Image Edge Remote, it is push a focus stack button ">>", move the mouse and push the button to take a picture, move the mouse and push the focus button ">>" .... over and over again.

Sony should, at a minimum, enhance the Image Edge software to remove the repetitive aspects of this process and eventually update the software on the a7riv to do the same. We can hope.

Personally, I would not purchase more hardware to solve a problem which has been reduced to a software feature.

Best Regards,

Richard

Hi Richard, thanks for your reply. Very informative and helpful because it tells me it’s possible to stack those huge 61mp files. Sounds like your weekend was very busy!

I would love to see a scaled down post of your corn panorama!

Sony really gets under my skin but I’m going to buy that camera anyway. I’m aware of Sony’s poor tethering software. It has other “issues” so to speak according to my pro photographer son-in-law. Now you’ve provided one more reason to suspect it. It’s all these reasons I started looking for an outboard solution. And even then I find Sony gets their hooks into your pockets because they require you to have some kind of “SonyPro” ($$$$) firmware to enable you to tether in some software (like Capture One). But then Capture One doesn’t support focus stacking as a software feature. Last but not least to get an English / International menu Sony Alpha camera in Japan you have to pay an extra $1500. I will order the camera from the US. But I digress.

Things I’ve found as options for stacking:

- The Camranger 2 ($350 camranger.com) has automated focus stacking for Sony, although you have to manually input the parameters. They have a video specific to Sony showing its operation. Camranger is hardware but much more than focus stacking though.

- Helicon Remote ($75 - Heliconsoft.com) has a beta in progress with Sony A7 RIII support. Hopefully that will include RIV when it goes to release.

May I ask how much memory and processor specs do you have in your Dell ? Have you considered hires mode with stacking ?

Also this is my first camera in a LONG time haha.

—Brett