Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
davesurrey Senior Member • Posts: 1,657
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
5

Despite what others have written it seems you are unwilling to shift your position. Okay, so let me give you some facts.

I just searched ebay for recently sold film cameras and out of the list of 32,000 plus I filtered it to the first 1000 sold at the lowest price. Not one of those sold for more than £5 and that included SLRs and cameras from Nikon and Canon. But okay the most expensive one sold for £7000.
I could have done that for many different objects cars, digital cameras etc but the point is that in all those 1000 there were some real bargains to be had.

I have bought around 20 this year mainly through auctions (not ebay) where I can inspect beforehand and out of those perhaps 3 have problems and the rest are serviceable. On average they have cost me £10 per camera. Some are in great condition and I have had 3 CLAd with no trouble at all to find the expertise here.

The oldest is over 90 years old (1930s) and is still capable of producing an excellent 6x9 negative as it’s totally mechanical and gears and cogs tend not to fail as much as electronics often do.

Remember that whereas in a digital camera the sensor is of major importance in a film camera it's the film and not so much the camera although the lens is also critical.

The main worry I have is not keeping these cameras working but the availability of film and processing labs. Now that’s another story.

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pseudobreccia
pseudobreccia Contributing Member • Posts: 887
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

tesla23 wrote:

Manufacturers are producing everything but cameras and with a strong decline in servicing shops, I wonder where all of this is going?

Besides, let me just share some current prices of some random cameras I’ve seen on German eBay - please remember these are used items with no real idea how long they will last before they croak.

contax T2 - 2000$ average

yashica t4 - 350$

olympus xa - 120$
That’s just all crazy and will sooner or later go down The shitter.

Well I believe you answered your own question.

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pseudobreccia
pseudobreccia Contributing Member • Posts: 887
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
1

tesla23 wrote:

Manufacturers are producing everything but cameras and with a strong decline in servicing shops, I wonder where all of this is going?

Besides, let me just share some current prices of some random cameras I’ve seen on German eBay - please remember these are used items with no real idea how long they will last before they croak.

contax T2 - 2000$ average

yashica t4 - 350$

olympus xa - 120$
That’s just all crazy and will sooner or later go down The shitter.

Enjoy life...live in the "NOW"!  Walking around with a dark cloud over you head makes for a depressing life!  Buy your film cameras...use them...have fun!  If someday the analog camera goes extinct...you at least took advantage of the time left available to you.

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Greg OH Regular Member • Posts: 440
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

What's the 1930's 6x9? I've been looking for one. Finding plenty, but not sure what I want.

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Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,461
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Greg OH wrote:

What's the 1930's 6x9? I've been looking for one. Finding plenty, but not sure what I want.

I have a 1920s Agfa Standard that shoots 6x9 - http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Agfa_Standard

cptrios Senior Member • Posts: 1,530
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

I don't think the OP's points are wrong really, just unnecessarily alarmist. As pseudobreccia said above: what's the point in worrying about it? Analog will only actually die if film itself dies, and it doesn't look like that's happening any time soon.

What will really happen is that things will get more expensive. Just like a gentrifying neighborhood, once the hyped film cameras outprice most people, they'll go looking for the next best thing, which will then become hyped and outprice most people, and on and on. But even with that, there will always be plenty of cheap stuff out there...I, for example, just bought a film camera off of eBay, the description of which included "I'm not sure why anyone would want this, but here it is."

So the best thing you can do is find something you like, hold on to it, and take good care of it. If the thing you like is cheap, buy a few of them. My own strategy, having just gotten back into film, is to gradually acclimate myself to working with zone focusing and, possibly, eventually, maybe, without a meter. Cameras without electronics or complex rangefinder assemblies will probably always be repairable.

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davesurrey Senior Member • Posts: 1,657
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Greg,
It's an Ensign Selfix 20. I believe they were made between 1933 to 1937.
I also have a Kodak Vigilant six-20 which was produced between 1939 and 1949 but my preference is for a much "younger" Ensign Selfix 820 Special (around 1953).
Good hunting.

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BrownieVet Senior Member • Posts: 3,811
Eventually will fade into museum pieces
1

Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

tesla23 wrote:

Manufacturers are producing everything but cameras and with a strong decline in servicing shops, I wonder where all of this is going?

Huh?

Besides, let me just share some current prices of some random cameras I’ve seen on German eBay - please remember these are used items with no real idea how long they will last before they croak.

Visit other eBay. In the USA where I live, fully functional popular brand such as Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc, SLR, Rangefinder and Twin-lens Reflex abound for as low as $25.00
My 1961 Nikon F, 1971 Konica Autoreflex T, 1976 Nikon EL, are still in perfect working condition. Unfortunately, my 1980 Canon EF and Canon AE-1 failed prematurely.

contax T2 - 2000$ average

yashica t4 - 350$

olympus xa - 120$

Many Pawn shops here in the USA sell those for as little as just 10% of the price you posted.

That’s just all crazy and will sooner or later go down The shitter.

Repairing mechanical camera WAS my hobby. Declining eyesight due to my age forced me to stop in the late 1990s. I noticed that cameras made before mid-1980 are more durable than those made later. Older cameras use metallic part whereas the newer cameras use plastics or fibers, thus, gears, cams, roller-follower mechanism, linkages are as not as durable.
.
As much as I like and enjoy analog cameras, to move on to DSLR in early 2000s.
If I were you, I will not loose sleep over the decline of Analog cameras.  If you really like Analog,  shop around for pristine USED camera and enjoy it.

cptrios Senior Member • Posts: 1,530
Re: Eventually will fade into museum pieces
2

BrownieVet wrote:

Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Many Pawn shops here in the USA sell those for as little as just 10% of the price you posted.

Could you point a few of those out to me please? Preferably in the greater Boston area? 

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BG28
BG28 Contributing Member • Posts: 507
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Agfa Billy Record  1 and 2 are pretty great, too. Mostly metal construction.

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MoreorLess Veteran Member • Posts: 4,810
Used cameras suppressing new releases? maybe a change now?

I suspect that part of the reason you see few new film camera releases these days isnt because the market is THAT small but rather because there is still such a wealth of used equipment out there that prices are suppressed.

I do wonder whether things might start to change a bit now that certain kinds of used film cameras are climbing in price again and working examples potentially becoming rarer?

I mean some areas like manual 35mm SLR's prices are still relative low due to the amount around and how well they last but things like 35mm compacts have been creeping up and up in price.

Fuji espeically I wonder whether they might think its worth putting the Klasse bodies back into production or maybe making more GF670's?

davesurrey Senior Member • Posts: 1,657
Re: Used cameras suppressing new releases? maybe a change now?
1

With respect I suspect you are wrong.

With the rapid decline in the digital camera market and companies going out of the business it would be very brave (= suicidal) to invest into the long gone film camera business.

They aren't making many steam locomotives anymore either, even though you might see them on the tracks with an enthusiastic following.

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Heritage Cameras
Heritage Cameras Senior Member • Posts: 1,847
Re: Used cameras suppressing new releases? maybe a change now?

davesurrey wrote:

They aren't making many steam locomotives anymore either, even though you might see them on the tracks with an enthusiastic following.

I knew that one had been built recently here in the UK, but was quite surprised to learn it's not the only one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotives_of_the_21st_century

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MoreorLess Veteran Member • Posts: 4,810
Re: Used cameras suppressing new releases? maybe a change now?

davesurrey wrote:

With respect I suspect you are wrong.

With the rapid decline in the digital camera market and companies going out of the business it would be very brave (= suicidal) to invest into the long gone film camera business.

They aren't making many steam locomotives anymore either, even though you might see them on the tracks with an enthusiastic following.

Well technically Fuji have been releasing film cameras for a number of years with Instax and I believe that brings in very significant income for them.

The level of investment needed obviously differs between markets as well, digital is clearly the larger market but creating products for it is expensive and highly competitive.

davesurrey Senior Member • Posts: 1,657
Re: Used cameras suppressing new releases? maybe a change now?

Yes I know that some enthusiasts built Tornado and no doubt some folk elsewhere on the planet have built a few others. But that wasn't my point, as I'm sure you realise.

As far as I know no-one has gone into production and it's unlikely they will. Same for cameras.  Which was my point.

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(unknown member) Junior Member • Posts: 35
There are plenty of film cameras still being made.
1
davesurrey Senior Member • Posts: 1,657
Re: Used cameras suppressing new releases? maybe a change now?

MoreorLess wrote:

davesurrey wrote:

With respect I suspect you are wrong.

With the rapid decline in the digital camera market and companies going out of the business it would be very brave (= suicidal) to invest into the long gone film camera business.

They aren't making many steam locomotives anymore either, even though you might see them on the tracks with an enthusiastic following.

Well technically Fuji have been releasing film cameras for a number of years with Instax and I believe that brings in very significant income for them.

No doubt you are correct about Instax but I don't think that was the main thrust of the OP's argument.

The level of investment needed obviously differs between markets as well, digital is clearly the larger market but creating products for it is expensive and highly competitive.

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MoreorLess Veteran Member • Posts: 4,810
Re: There are plenty of film cameras still being made.
2

c-d-embrey wrote:

There are plenty of film cameras still being made. The price range is from the low hundreds to multi thousands. Many use readily available 120 film.

Fotoman https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=fotoman+cameras&atb=v1-1&iax=images&ia=images Fotoman 69HPS Review https://jakehornphotography.com/blog/2016/2/17/fotoman-69-hps-camera-review

Linhof http://linhof.com/

Horseman http://www.kenko-pi.co.jp/horseman/e/index.html A Horseman SW612 article https://emulsive.org/reviews/compact-lightweight-medium-format-panoramic-photography-with-the-horseman-sw612

Rolleiflex https://rolleiflex.us/

Leica https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M-A and https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-MP

Alpa https://www.alpa.ch/

Lomo Horizon https://shop.lomography.com/en/cameras/horizon-cameras

I think you see that most of the areas were camera are still being made are those were even used bodies still sell at a premium.

I'd say whats really killed the market for SLR's at 35mm and 120 is that there is so much used stock out there that prices are very depressed to the degree its not economical to produce new stock even if theres a market out there.

Again I wonder whether we might start to see some shift here as prices for used stock in certain areas are climbing, things like premium 35mm compacts.

Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,461
Re: There are plenty of film cameras still being made.

MoreorLess wrote:

c-d-embrey wrote:

There are plenty of film cameras still being made. The price range is from the low hundreds to multi thousands. Many use readily available 120 film.

Fotoman https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=fotoman+cameras&atb=v1-1&iax=images&ia=images Fotoman 69HPS Review https://jakehornphotography.com/blog/2016/2/17/fotoman-69-hps-camera-review

Linhof http://linhof.com/

Horseman http://www.kenko-pi.co.jp/horseman/e/index.html A Horseman SW612 article https://emulsive.org/reviews/compact-lightweight-medium-format-panoramic-photography-with-the-horseman-sw612

Rolleiflex https://rolleiflex.us/

Leica https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M-A and https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-MP

Alpa https://www.alpa.ch/

Lomo Horizon https://shop.lomography.com/en/cameras/horizon-cameras

I think you see that most of the areas were camera are still being made are those were even used bodies still sell at a premium.

I'd say whats really killed the market for SLR's at 35mm and 120 is that there is so much used stock out there that prices are very depressed to the degree its not economical to produce new stock even if theres a market out there.

Again I wonder whether we might start to see some shift here as prices for used stock in certain areas are climbing, things like premium 35mm compacts.

Bellamy Hunt (Japan Camera Hunter) has previously stated that he was planning on producing a 35mm premium compact ( https://petapixel.com/2017/09/25/japan-camera-hunter-making-new-premium-35mm-compact-camera/ ).  But I’ve never seen any suggestion that it would be cheap, more like the £500 -£1,000 bracket.  Of course that was in 2017.

(unknown member) Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: There are plenty of film cameras still being made.

Used bodies only sell at a premium if you buy from ebay. "There's a sucker born every minute." Don't be a sucker—remember Tulip Mania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_maniahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

BTW legacy is just another word that means obsolete.

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