Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

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tesla23 Contributing Member • Posts: 546
Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Manufacturers are producing everything but cameras and with a strong decline in servicing shops, I wonder where all of this is going?

Besides, let me just share some current prices of some random cameras I’ve seen on German eBay - please remember these are used items with no real idea how long they will last before they croak.

contax T2 - 2000$ average

yashica t4 - 350$

olympus xa - 120$
That’s just all crazy and will sooner or later go down The shitter.

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Ricoh GR Digital III Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D
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marc petzold
marc petzold Senior Member • Posts: 1,594
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
2

tesla23 wrote:

Manufacturers are producing everything but cameras and with a strong decline in servicing shops, I wonder where all of this is going?

Besides, let me just share some current prices of some random cameras I’ve seen on German eBay - please remember these are used items with no real idea how long they will last before they croak.

contax T2 - 2000$ average

yashica t4 - 350$

olympus xa - 120$
That’s just all crazy and will sooner or later go down The shitter.

Sorry, but somehow crazy Post! There are Millions of analog Film Cameras out there, not just the 3 mentioned Ones. It takes some time, to find a good One.

I shoot since 85 Film, started 87 with SLR. I do love it, that Feeling, never being comparable with a digital Camera, no matter how good, how expensive the Camera from Brand xyz would be - it's never being the same.

Good Light.

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"The Best Camera is the One That's with You" ~ Chase Jarvis

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eggyolk Contributing Member • Posts: 609
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
2

I'm sorry the resale value of your digital cameras is so little.

neilt3
neilt3 Senior Member • Posts: 1,998
The future looks good .
4

Late 90's early 2000's SLR cameras sell from about £15 .

Many later manual SLRs sell from about £50 .

Many sell for around £25 .

Some professional grade cameras sell from £200 to £600 .

With some disirable / cult / hyped up cameras sell for up to several thousands .

There's no shortage of good quality used gear , and there's not likely to be .

There are still places that service older gear to keep it going .

I've probably got up to around a hundred different film cameras , not all film formats are still available though .

So I'm not likely to run out of usable cameras before I die .

.

If you think there's an issue with availability I suggest you look on eBay or in used camera stores .

There's always dome models that will command a premium .

Same as with cars or anything else .

Just because a certain models costs £25,000 used doesn't mean there isn't plenty of £1000 cars on the used market , or £250 one for that matter !

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OP tesla23 Contributing Member • Posts: 546
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
1

Again, these cameras are decades old and most can’t even be serviced! As an analog shooter, this concerns me, especially because the prices have went up ridiculously because of this.

 tesla23's gear list:tesla23's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital III Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D
OP tesla23 Contributing Member • Posts: 546
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Don’t be ridiculous, the resell value is mostly being determined by availability in decent condition which means most of these cameras have issues, which they do if you look at the descriptions

 tesla23's gear list:tesla23's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital III Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D
Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,466
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
4

tesla23 wrote:

Manufacturers are producing everything but cameras and with a strong decline in servicing shops, I wonder where all of this is going?

Besides, let me just share some current prices of some random cameras I’ve seen on German eBay - please remember these are used items with no real idea how long they will last before they croak.

contax T2 - 2000$ average

yashica t4 - 350$

olympus xa - 120$
That’s just all crazy and will sooner or later go down The shitter.

You can still buy new film cameras - e.g. Nikon F6, Intrepid 5x4, and new film cameras have been released in the last year - Dubblefilm Show, Yashica MF1, Harman Simple Use, Kodak M35.  And that’s not including all the Polaroid and FujiFilm Instant cameras

Similarly there appears to have been an increase in the number of repair shops (in the U.K. at least)  in the last year.

OP tesla23 Contributing Member • Posts: 546
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

Thanks for sharing your local experience but on a global scale, it doesn’t look as good. Heck, even the F6 can only be serviced in a limited capacity. Of course I can stick to buying one AE-1 After another but long term, this is just not a good solutions.

there needs to be:

- more new 35mm cameras, especially premium models (except for Leica of course)

- more service places

All of this will result in a drop of price of half-assed used cameras at ridiculous prices and create an overall better user experience.
I am just not willing to drop serious money for a used camera with no ability to fix it.

 tesla23's gear list:tesla23's gear list
Ricoh GR Digital III Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D
smithim Senior Member • Posts: 1,679
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

tesla23 wrote:

there needs to be:

- more new 35mm cameras, especially premium models (except for Leica of course)

- more service places

And if there is sufficient demand, there will be... Few manufacturers turn down the chance to make decent money.... This implies that there probably aren't that many people who want them.

OP tesla23 Contributing Member • Posts: 546
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

That’s most likely it. I also wonder if companies like Zeiss would consider producing in-camera lenses (for example)

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Ricoh GR Digital III Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D
neilt3
neilt3 Senior Member • Posts: 1,998
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
1

smithim wrote:

tesla23 wrote:

there needs to be:

- more new 35mm cameras, especially premium models (except for Leica of course)

- more service places

And if there is sufficient demand, there will be... Few manufacturers turn down the chance to make decent money.... This implies that there probably aren't that many people who want them.

If the main manufacturers restarted making film SLRs again ( Canon , Nikon etc ) the expenditure needed , and the quantity that they would make would make them far too expensive for the target market .

Look at the retail prices of cameras twenty years ago when they were mainstream .

For a niche product that price will be much  more , so who would pay it ?

Especially when you can buy used gear for a tiny fraction of the original price .

Look at the price of new cameras at the Lomography store , very expensive for a very basic , plastic , manual camera .

I bought recently a Lubitel 2 TLR in perfect working order for £20 .

A new one is £265 from the Lomography store .

Let's face it , it's a box with a shutter on , it's used for fun .

How many rolls of film will go through it to justify buying new ?

How many times can I replace it for the same price , I've other cameras dating back to 1912 that still work fine .

The only new film cameras I've bought recently are a 5x4 camera and a Noon pinhole camera that does 6x6 , 6x9 or 6x12 on 120 film .

Previous to that I bought a Minolta Dynax 5 NOS in 2005 and got a crappy panoramic camera free with the tokens off the back if a Cornflakes packet in the 1980's .

All my other film cameras are second hand .

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OP tesla23 Contributing Member • Posts: 546
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

That’s what I mean: if people are willing to pay ridiculous prices for a used (and often semi-functional ) camera, they could might as well buy a new one. Side note: my M6 has nearly doubled in price in the last 3 years so I wonder how much demand is there

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Ricoh GR Digital III Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D
smithim Senior Member • Posts: 1,679
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

neilt3 wrote:

smithim wrote:

tesla23 wrote:

there needs to be:

- more new 35mm cameras, especially premium models (except for Leica of course)

- more service places

And if there is sufficient demand, there will be... Few manufacturers turn down the chance to make decent money.... This implies that there probably aren't that many people who want them.

If the main manufacturers restarted making film SLRs again ( Canon , Nikon etc ) the expenditure needed , and the quantity that they would make would make them far too expensive for the target market .

Exactly - there isn't the market out there are the prices they'd have to charge. You can buy a brand new F6 for only £1,995, on which the development costs must have been amortized long ago. So any new replacement would be much more expensive. I doubt that they sell many new F6 bodies these days.

I bought recently a Lubitel 2 TLR in perfect working order for £20 .

A new one is £265 from the Lomography store .

All my other film cameras are second hand .

Well, all of mine were bought new, but some of them were bought about 40 years ago. Not one of them has ever given me a moments grief, but then I do tend to look after them

smithim Senior Member • Posts: 1,679
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?

tesla23 wrote:

That’s what I mean: if people are willing to pay ridiculous prices for a used (and often semi-functional ) camera, they could might as well buy a new one. Side note: my M6 has nearly doubled in price in the last 3 years so I wonder how much demand is there

Collectors will always pay silly prices for kit - it's not the mainstream, though...

SterlingBjorndahl Senior Member • Posts: 2,365
What do you mean, no new cameras?
2

If these brand-new cameras don't do the job for you... https://shop.lomography.com/en/cameras ... you can still make your own pinhole cameras, or use medium- and large-format boxes with bellows and lenses and do-it-yourself emulsions.

As long as there are light sensitive materials and a way to control exposure and focus, there will be cameras.

Regards,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit

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JohnnyLuddite Senior Member • Posts: 1,561
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
1

My assessment of the longevity of film cameras is way higher than digital ones.

In part, this is down to personal experience of continued use of a Nikon F601 over 30 years - fantastic camera, good metering, AF, flash, and F-mount. And worth about $30. Brilliant, and a lot were made. I never had a film camera fail on me, had one stolen, and one dropped in the sea. Woops.

Serviceability is higher because it's mechanical parts that are mainly being replaced. Whether it's worth it or not is moot for the cheaper cameras. The major risk I see is that perfectly good "stock" is going to be binned because of the low prices of some, rather than they will fail particularly with disuse. The main problem with lack of use is things like rubber seals going.

Of course, there are sectors of the used film market which are highly distorted by the collectors market, and by the Leica cachet. But that's OK, you don't have to buy those if you don't want to.

My guess of the lifetime of digital models is more like 15 years tops, and many of the older ones are already economically unserviceable. The problem being of course, that there are many more circuit boards, buttons, pins and LCDs to go wrong.

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Overrank Senior Member • Posts: 2,466
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
3

tesla23 wrote:

Thanks for sharing your local experience but on a global scale, it doesn’t look as good. Heck, even the F6 can only be serviced in a limited capacity. Of course I can stick to buying one AE-1 After another but long term, this is just not a good solutions.

Of course all those cameras are available globally. Judging by the size of the recent recall Nikon sold 152 cameras in the last year - https://www.nikonusa.com/en/service-and-support/service-advisories/technical-service-advisory-for-users-of-the-nikon-f6-film-slr-camera.html

there needs to be:

- more new 35mm cameras, especially premium models (except for Leica of course)

- more service places

All of this will result in a drop of price of half-assed used cameras at ridiculous prices and create an overall better user experience.
I am just not willing to drop serious money for a used camera with no ability to fix it.

I doubt there will be any new 35mm film cameras made like the F6 - the tooling cost would be enormous for a small return.  Most of the things that have been tried are either rehashes of old designs or new fully mechanical cameras

The availability of servicing outlets depends in part on the likely uptake. Assuming you don’t work in camera repairs, ask yourself why you’ve not thought of career change into camera repairs? The likelihood is because  the hours are long and the rewards not so good.

Young people are doing the same calculations and rather than going into camera repairs they think there’s money to be made from making unboxing videos on YouTube
Most of the new servicing is going onto high end stuff like Leicas and Contax T2 - no-one is going to pay £100 for a CLA on a Praktica MTL5

Daft Punk Contributing Member • Posts: 899
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
3

tesla23 wrote:

Manufacturers are producing everything but cameras and with a strong decline in servicing shops, I wonder where all of this is going?

Besides, let me just share some current prices of some random cameras I’ve seen on German eBay - please remember these are used items with no real idea how long they will last before they croak.

contax T2 - 2000$ average

yashica t4 - 350$

olympus xa - 120$
That’s just all crazy and will sooner or later go down The shitter.

You make no sense.

I just received in the post a mint Minolta 700si and a 24-105 that cost $30.

I also own 2 x 1960's Pentax Spotmatics that work perfectly ( easily as well as an early Leica ) and they cost $60 for TWO.  They work perfectly and they came with 28mm and 50mm prime lenses.

Contax T2 is silly money because Instagram celebrities have made them fashionable - same for the T4 to some extent.

There are millions of film cameras out there.  They can be acquired for little money.  Use some imagination.

If new film cameras were made, however , I would not complain !

Autonerd Senior Member • Posts: 1,953
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
1

tesla23 wrote:

Again, these cameras are decades old and most can’t even be serviced!

Says who? I own several 35mm cameras. I've had two that I wanted repaired and had no problem finding a reputable shop (and both repairs were <$100). There are plenty of "donor" cameras for parts. I'm finally getting around to getting my 45-year-old Pentax KX serviced and again, no problem finding an expert in that particular camera. One of the advantages of the new interest in film photography is a new generation of repair techs -- yes, young people are learning how to fix old cameras.

Just shoot and enjoy. Oh, and if you spend some time on camera-wiki.org you'll find lots of film cameras that haven't been "discovered" and are still very reasonably priced. My last three purchases were a Minolta 400si body for $12, a Maxxum 5 with kit lens for $16 and a Ricoh KR-10SE with two lenses for $35.

Aaron

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Autonerd Senior Member • Posts: 1,953
Re: Whats the future of analog with no new cameras?
3

tesla23 wrote:

Don’t be ridiculous, the resell value is mostly being determined by availability in decent condition which means most of these cameras have issues, which they do if you look at the descriptions

As someone who has purchased several cameras (not just looked on eBay), "most of the cameras have issues" is simply not a true statement. These things are a lot better made than plastic digi-junk, and many eBay sellers advertise the cameras as "untested" or "parts only" because they don't want to have to deal with a return for such a cheap item.

The last "for parts only" camera I bought worked perfectly... which means I need to find another parts camera to get the parts I need. For this one particular model, I'm having a hard time finding one that *doesn't* work.

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