Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

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WryCuda Forum Pro • Posts: 10,579
Re: ponytail school of UI design
1

CAcreeks wrote:

WryCuda wrote:

Seems that MS is afflicted with the "ponytail" school of GUI design.

Do you have somebody in mind? Ponytail (as in MLP = my little ponytail) was Dan Lyons' nickname for Jonathan Schwartz, worst CEO of all time who wasn't a crook. MLP did not do GUI design, he just oversold Java and lost money selling software for nothing, but making it up in volume. So he said.

Years ago, it was said that you needed to have a ponytail to operate a certain popular brand of computer (boys as well as girls).

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gscotten
gscotten Senior Member • Posts: 2,102
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

Simon Garrett wrote:

gscotten wrote:

Patco wrote:

WryCuda wrote:

I'm pleased that someone else shares my opinion of the "childish and gigantic tiles". I presume that they are that size for touch operation. Funny thing, even with my large hands, I can use an iPad very efficiently, even though items are often set at 3mm pitch (DPReview forum list, for example).

Seems that MS is afflicted with the "ponytail" school of GUI design.

There is a choice of size for tiles. The "Small" (which is smaller than the desktop icon at default size) is 1/4 the size of a "Medium" tile.

I don't understand this "problem". Are people using Win 10 in Tablet Mode? The only place I see these tiles is off to the side on those rare times when I open the Start Menu. Win10 looks pretty much like an improved Win7 to me. I skipped Win8 because it was ALL tiles, but Win10 seems to work essentially identical to Win7. What am I missing?

I don't think there's a "problem", it's just that I and others find OpenShell a better UI. I'm sure that isn't "problem" for you (or I hope not!)

It's just personal preference.

The Open Shell start menu shows the whole start menu on screen at once (although it's cropped in this screen scrape). For me it's easier to find stuff that way, especially if it's something I rarely use and can't remember the name until I see it.

I certainly have no problem with you preferring OpenShell. I agree that if you use the program list very often, the more compact version is better. (I very rarely use the program list.)  But all I was hearing were complaints about the tiles, which I didn't understand. The only place I ever see them is off to the side of the program list. You can delete them if you don't like them, but I never even notice them.

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Sagittarius Veteran Member • Posts: 7,236
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

gscotten wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

gscotten wrote:

Patco wrote:

WryCuda wrote:

I'm pleased that someone else shares my opinion of the "childish and gigantic tiles". I presume that they are that size for touch operation. Funny thing, even with my large hands, I can use an iPad very efficiently, even though items are often set at 3mm pitch (DPReview forum list, for example).

Seems that MS is afflicted with the "ponytail" school of GUI design.

There is a choice of size for tiles. The "Small" (which is smaller than the desktop icon at default size) is 1/4 the size of a "Medium" tile.

I don't understand this "problem". Are people using Win 10 in Tablet Mode? The only place I see these tiles is off to the side on those rare times when I open the Start Menu. Win10 looks pretty much like an improved Win7 to me. I skipped Win8 because it was ALL tiles, but Win10 seems to work essentially identical to Win7. What am I missing?

I don't think there's a "problem", it's just that I and others find OpenShell a better UI. I'm sure that isn't "problem" for you (or I hope not!)

It's just personal preference.

The Open Shell start menu shows the whole start menu on screen at once (although it's cropped in this screen scrape). For me it's easier to find stuff that way, especially if it's something I rarely use and can't remember the name until I see it.

I certainly have no problem with you preferring OpenShell. I agree that if you use the program list very often, the more compact version is better. (I very rarely use the program list.) But all I was hearing were complaints about the tiles, which I didn't understand. The only place I ever see them is off to the side of the program list. You can delete them if you don't like them, but I never even notice them.

Right now I am using the "Full Screen" option for Start. It displays either tiles or list of the SW displayed on the desktop which makes it very visible and easy to navigate through when needed.

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WryCuda Forum Pro • Posts: 10,579
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

gscotten wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

gscotten wrote:

Patco wrote:

WryCuda wrote:

I'm pleased that someone else shares my opinion of the "childish and gigantic tiles". I presume that they are that size for touch operation. Funny thing, even with my large hands, I can use an iPad very efficiently, even though items are often set at 3mm pitch (DPReview forum list, for example).

Seems that MS is afflicted with the "ponytail" school of GUI design.

There is a choice of size for tiles. The "Small" (which is smaller than the desktop icon at default size) is 1/4 the size of a "Medium" tile.

I don't understand this "problem". Are people using Win 10 in Tablet Mode? The only place I see these tiles is off to the side on those rare times when I open the Start Menu. Win10 looks pretty much like an improved Win7 to me. I skipped Win8 because it was ALL tiles, but Win10 seems to work essentially identical to Win7. What am I missing?

I don't think there's a "problem", it's just that I and others find OpenShell a better UI. I'm sure that isn't "problem" for you (or I hope not!)

It's just personal preference.

The Open Shell start menu shows the whole start menu on screen at once (although it's cropped in this screen scrape). For me it's easier to find stuff that way, especially if it's something I rarely use and can't remember the name until I see it.

I certainly have no problem with you preferring OpenShell. I agree that if you use the program list very often, the more compact version is better. (I very rarely use the program list.) But all I was hearing were complaints about the tiles, which I didn't understand. The only place I ever see them is off to the side of the program list. You can delete them if you don't like them, but I never even notice them.

I think that it was me that mentioned tiles earlier on. I also hardly notice them, and I can't be bothered getting rid of them either.

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XiaoDeer Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

I call the Windows Start menu the Windows Stop menu.

The only thing I use it for is the Shutdown and Restart options

SC489 Senior Member • Posts: 1,303
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?
1

Simon Garrett wrote:

Sagittarius wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

gscotten wrote:

Patco wrote:

WryCuda wrote:

I'm pleased that someone else shares my opinion of the "childish and gigantic tiles". I presume that they are that size for touch operation. Funny thing, even with my large hands, I can use an iPad very efficiently, even though items are often set at 3mm pitch (DPReview forum list, for example).

Seems that MS is afflicted with the "ponytail" school of GUI design.

There is a choice of size for tiles. The "Small" (which is smaller than the desktop icon at default size) is 1/4 the size of a "Medium" tile.

I don't understand this "problem". Are people using Win 10 in Tablet Mode? The only place I see these tiles is off to the side on those rare times when I open the Start Menu. Win10 looks pretty much like an improved Win7 to me. I skipped Win8 because it was ALL tiles, but Win10 seems to work essentially identical to Win7. What am I missing?

I don't think there's a "problem", it's just that I and others find OpenShell a better UI.

I'm sure that isn't "problem" for you (or I hope not!)

It's just personal preference.

The W10 start menu shows only a small fraction of the programs on the list, and I have to scroll down about 6 times to get to the bottom of the list.

The Open Shell start menu shows the whole start menu on screen at once (although it's cropped in this screen scrape). For me it's easier to find stuff that way, especially if it's something I rarely use and can't remember the name until I see it.

Open Shell is also much more configurable.

There isn't a "problem", just a preference.

Have you tried START in full screen mode?

Yes, it's fine. As I say, nothing wrong with the W10 Start Menu, and I sometimes use it. With Open Shell installed, if you hold shift when clicking the start button, you get W10 start menu. But I prefer Open Shell.

It's simpler to configure Classic / Open Shell so mouse hover over Start opens Classic / Open Shell and left click opens the Windows 10 Start Menu

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bananahead Contributing Member • Posts: 507
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

ciaran33 wrote:

Hi, my wife is struggling to use her Win 10 laptop,

Any thoughts?

I know that it's hard, but just like any other piece of hard/software, sometimes a newer version is the way to go.

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CAcreeks
CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 16,331
Re: ponytail school of UI design

WryCuda wrote:

Seems that MS is afflicted with the "ponytail" school of GUI design.

Do you have somebody in mind?

Years ago, it was said that you needed to have a ponytail to operate a certain popular brand of computer (boys as well as girls).

I thought it was beards more than ponytails. "The weirds and the beards."

The Start menu is by no means the worst of W10 UI design. How about the split between Settings and Control Panel? Most of the Settings dialogs scroll, so important stuff is hidden. Moreover some of them are poorly thought out. When setting alternate DNS servers for example, it's unclear that you don't need to set a static IPv4 address also.

afterburn Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

WryCuda wrote:

ciaran33 wrote:

Hi, my wife is struggling to use her Win 10 laptop, especially now that she needs to do Zoom meetings. She can whizz around her iPad and iPhone better than me, though I like my Mac Book Pro. I've had Windows laptops for years, but the Win 10 interface has me befuddled. There was a Classic Shell app to restore the old Win 7 look, but it hasn't been updated for years. (Dear me, I'm beginning to sound like a Luddite). Any thoughts?

Yes, for some users, Win8 was unusable until Classic Shell came to the rescue. I don't know the full story on CS for Win10, but I believe that the developers just gave up.

Win10 has multiple ways of starting programs...

  1. Start menu and Scroll the list (handy for less frequently used programs)
  2. Task bar items for frequently used programs (single click).
  3. Click on files in Windows Explorer to call up associated applications.
  4. Shortcuts on the desktop. Frequently used programs or Network links (double click).
  5. Use the "Gigantic Tiles" on the desktop.

#2 and #3 would be my most frequently used method.

#5 I always thought was some sort of joke, referring back to Win8. I think my wife accesses games that way.

#6 (and my most used method): the keyboard. Just hit the win-key and start typing the name of the program.

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mmarian Senior Member • Posts: 2,022
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

Patco Forum Pro • Posts: 15,071
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

Without Classic Shell I have my favourite programs pinned to the taskbar or Start menu.

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Eric Carlson
Eric Carlson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,882
Right Click Start Menu

There's also the Right Click Start Menu, with settings, file explorer, and more.

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afterburn Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

There is absolutely nothing you say here you cannot do with standard Windows UI since, well, Windows 95. Or maybe 98. So what is your reasoning to use Classic Shell and add a potentially less stable and memory using program to use functionality you already have?

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Simon Garrett Veteran Member • Posts: 6,959
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

afterburn wrote:

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

There is absolutely nothing you say here you cannot do with standard Windows UI since, well, Windows 95. Or maybe 98. So what is your reasoning to use Classic Shell and add a potentially less stable and memory using program to use functionality you already have?

Well, I know you're being provocative, but I'll rise to it!

If you mean that can launch a program equally well with Open Shell or the W10 start menu, then of course.  That's all either UI does: launch programs.

The issue, which I think you might find several of us may have mentioned already, is a matter of preference: which UI do we prefer.

Any program is potenially less stable than some other program.  In practice, Open Shell (and Classic Shell before it) have proved to be very, very stable. Do you have any evidence that it is less stable than the W10 start menu?

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afterburn Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

Simon Garrett wrote:

afterburn wrote:

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

There is absolutely nothing you say here you cannot do with standard Windows UI since, well, Windows 95. Or maybe 98. So what is your reasoning to use Classic Shell and add a potentially less stable and memory using program to use functionality you already have?

Well, I know you're being provocative, but I'll rise to it!

If you mean that can launch a program equally well with Open Shell or the W10 start menu, then of course. That's all either UI does: launch programs.

The issue, which I think you might find several of us may have mentioned already, is a matter of preference: which UI do we prefer.

Any program is potenially less stable than some other program. In practice, Open Shell (and Classic Shell before it) have proved to be very, very stable. Do you have any evidence that it is less stable than the W10 start menu?

I know and I know CS. But if someone lists their reasons for why they are so happy about using CS and none of them are related to the purpose of function of CS, which is to change the UI to visually match that of W7 and all can be achieved by the standard Windows UI since Windows 98, then I just have to ask. Sorry.

I can make my taskbar black in W10
I can make my taskbar bigger or smaller in W10
I can set my taskbar to automatically hide or pop into view when mouse over in W10
I can add my favorite programs to the taskbar and start them with a single click in W10
I can automatically start programs at boot if I want to in W10

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SC489 Senior Member • Posts: 1,303
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

afterburn wrote:

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

There is absolutely nothing you say here you cannot do with standard Windows UI since, well, Windows 95. Or maybe 98. So what is your reasoning to use Classic Shell and add a potentially less stable and memory using program to use functionality you already have?

Wrong - you can't easily configure links to a clean display of nested folders as you can with Classic / Open Shell

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afterburn Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

SC489 wrote:

afterburn wrote:

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

There is absolutely nothing you say here you cannot do with standard Windows UI since, well, Windows 95. Or maybe 98. So what is your reasoning to use Classic Shell and add a potentially less stable and memory using program to use functionality you already have?

Wrong - you can't easily configure links to a clean display of nested folders as you can with Classic / Open Shell

Excuse me? Where do you see that listed as one of the features mmarian likes so much about CS? I never said CS doesn't have features Windows doesn't have standard, though you can have nested folders in start or taskbar pretty easily.

I am not questioning CS functionality, I am wondering about what mmarian made going to CS when all the features listed as a pro for CS are basic, standard Windows features since 1998 which does not make them a great example or case for CS.

Please read before you jump on someone.

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Sagittarius Veteran Member • Posts: 7,236
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

SC489 wrote:

afterburn wrote:

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

There is absolutely nothing you say here you cannot do with standard Windows UI since, well, Windows 95. Or maybe 98. So what is your reasoning to use Classic Shell and add a potentially less stable and memory using program to use functionality you already have?

Wrong - you can't easily configure links to a clean display of nested folders as you can with Classic / Open Shell

What exactly is "clean link to nested folders"?

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SC489 Senior Member • Posts: 1,303
Re: Windows 10 make look like Win 7?

Sagittarius wrote:

SC489 wrote:

afterburn wrote:

mmarian wrote:

With Classic Shell I have my favorite programs on task bar on bottom of my screen in black color, same as my desktop screen and set to auto hide. It could not be more elegant and more convenient. I could also make my favorite programs to start upon boot up by including them in Start up list of programs but I prefer not to. Single click on the small program icon on task bar which appears briefly upon mouse over, job done. No clutter on my screen, simple as...

There is absolutely nothing you say here you cannot do with standard Windows UI since, well, Windows 95. Or maybe 98. So what is your reasoning to use Classic Shell and add a potentially less stable and memory using program to use functionality you already have?

Wrong - you can't easily configure links to a clean display of nested folders as you can with Classic / Open Shell

What exactly is "clean link to nested folders"?

You can link to folder then another one only showing the folders you want in the menu

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