WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Photoclever Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: Why High ISO?

MarshallG wrote:

When I shoot landscapes, I often use a tripod and open the shutter as long as needed. I keep my ISO at 100 for landscapes.
There are other things that matter in landscapes, like the sensor’s dynamic range.
But any of the newer FF Canons can handle ISO 6400, that’s not very high these days, depending on the results you’re expecting.

Any FF Canon back to the 5D3 can handle 6400 well. That said, any FF camera is sacrificing some resolution and DR by 6400, even the newest sensors. You're not going to get max detail/sharpness/print size at 6400.

1Dx4me Forum Pro • Posts: 10,467
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

raven4ns2 wrote:

I am an amateur photographer who is considering an upgrade to my current camera. I shoot mostly intimate landscapes and nature abstracts. The camera I am using is a Canon 1Dsmkii but it has one drawback that I would like to overcome. At times I use ISO400 because I shoot in the woods where there often times is not a lot of light. The newer camera to me should be able to shoot ISO800 up to an including ISO6400 and still produce good quality images.
Because I shoot Canon, I would be looking at a Canon DSLR and a used one at that. There are so many models of Canon cameras I am unsure which would be the best for my needs. Any landscape photographers using a Canon DSLR for their shooting please advise me as to which you feel is the best for that genre. The latest Canon models are too expensive but perhaps there are a couple of FF models that could give me what I am looking for. Thank you for any and all suggestions.

Regards,

Tim

i don't understand what camera has anything to do with using it for landscape? i have taken some of my best landscape shot with my 40D, an aps-c camera! with any situation in photography, lens quality has a lot to do with photos' appeal and IQ, in my experience!

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KariP
KariP Veteran Member • Posts: 5,701
Re: 5DMkIV is the best alternative

Photoclever wrote:

KariP wrote:

The price is not terrible high. Expensive still, I bought mine in 2019 when I found a bargain

I just compared 5DMkIV and the new R5 - there are tests available ...

5DMkIV has perhaps better sensor for landscapes - sometimes you need more dynamic range. Higher ISO RAW files are noise free and great for editing.

R5 is great but it is not better for landscapes. Surprisingly.

The new R5 has much higher resolution and also has greater DR, so I'm not sure how you concluded that the 5D4 is equal to it for landscapes.

Versus the 5Ds or 5DsR the 5D4 has more DR but 5Ds resolution matches the R5. I would take the resolution. The only time the 5Ds doesn't have enough DR is when the sun is in the frame, and when that happens there's a good chance you will be blending 2 or more exposures on any camera. But the resolution difference is in every shot.

That said any of the three can do a good job. It has been years since there has been a camera model which couldn't produce a decent landscape to at least 16x24" print size.

35 vs 45 megapixels is not "much higher". Possibly visible in very big prints.

There are not many tests comparing sensors - i have found just one (Digitalcameraworld). 5DMIV had as good or better (higher ISO) dynamic range and less noise. I have not seen any tests that tell that R5 has greater DR.

We have perhaps a very different landscape around us. I'm taking photographs often by the sea and sometimes in winter when there is bright snow or reflective ice - and at the same time dark shadows - i really know the need for more DR  

Price is the important factor...

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Kari
I started SLR film photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fujifilm X-E3 and X-H1 for nature, walking around ,traveling/landscapes - fantastic 5DMkIV for landscapes, macro , BIF ... .

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MarshallG
MarshallG Veteran Member • Posts: 7,476
Re: 5DMkIV is the best alternative

Photoclever wrote:

MarshallG wrote:

I think the 5D IV is overall better. The AF is faster, frame rate is higher, video is better... I think the 5Ds targeted studio photographers who used studio lighting. But there are shooters who love it, that’s for sure c

The saturation of detail even in large prints is addictive. The 5D4 and R feel like very good 35mm format cameras. The 5Ds feels like it belongs with MF backs.

Do you own all of these cameras?

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OP raven4ns2 Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: 5DMkIV is the best alternative

I own the Canon 1Ds mkii which was my first digital camera. All my other cameras are film. The only reason I got the 1Ds was it was as close to the EOS 3 that I could get. I love the EOS 3 and it's ECF, I was hoping they would have made a digital equivalent.

Now I'm looking for a camera that has good high ISO to allow me to leave my  tripod at home or in the car. With the newer cameras I'm sure they will provide better ISO than a camera 17 years old.

Best regards,

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Tim
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44673530@N04/
The measure of a man is not how many times he gets knocked down...... It is how many times he gets back up.

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gipper51 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,182
Re: 5DMkIV is the best alternative

raven4ns2 wrote:

I own the Canon 1Ds mkii which was my first digital camera. All my other cameras are film. The only reason I got the 1Ds was it was as close to the EOS 3 that I could get. I love the EOS 3 and it's ECF, I was hoping they would have made a digital equivalent.

Now I'm looking for a camera that has good high ISO to allow me to leave my tripod at home or in the car. With the newer cameras I'm sure they will provide better ISO than a camera 17 years old.

Best regards,

Does this new camera have to be a Canon? Reason I ask, is taking things out of the equation like AF, handling, build quality, etc., and focusing on just the sensor performance, the top 35mm sensors for high resolution, DR and noise are:

In no particular order:

Sony 60mp in A7R4 - best res, great DR, decent noise

Sony 42mp sensors found in A7R2, A7R3 - Better high ISO than the 60mp sensor

Sony 45mp found only in D850 - possibly the best all around.  Best DR.

Canon 45mp in R5 - yet to be fully understood, but so far looks to be quite stellar.

For a camera focused on landscapes, one of these sensors is ideally what you want if you're going after the best available today.  Of those sensors, the cheapest camera with one of those sensors is the Sony A7RII.  $1400 new, under $1K used.  You'll need an adapter for your Canon lenses, which is about $250-400 depending on the model.  If you don't care about AF performance, handling, speed, etc., and just want the "best sensor in a box" to record landscapes, this camera is hard to ignore.

And no, I don't currently own any Sony cameras (I have had the A7R) or have an agenda to push Sony.  Just simply stating, if you're on a tight budget but want a high res/high DR landscape body, this camera should be very high on the short list.

Yes, the 5D4 is an excellent camera (I have one) and can take amazing landscape photos.  But, I will concede that if landscapes were my top priority, a body with almost 50% more pixels, better DR, sensor image stabilization, and is also significantly cheaper would be what I'd lean towards.

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Photoclever Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: 5DMkIV is the best alternative
1

KariP wrote:

35 vs 45 megapixels is not "much higher".

The 5D4 has 30mp with a stronger AA filter.

I have not seen any tests that tell that R5 has greater DR.

Photons to photos has published the DR graph for the R5 and it's 1ev better at base ISO. This site has their studio scene up and the R5 clearly records more detail and has better high ISO (when inspected at the same view size).

None of this is to knock the 5D4 which is an excellent camera.

Christopher D Mann Contributing Member • Posts: 545
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA
3

My personal favorite so far is the 5DSr with the 16-35 F4 L IS on a tripod with mirror lockup set to 1 second to help reduce ant type of shutter vibration. At 50 mp you get all of the great detail that you want and with the lens mentioned it is really sharp with good tonal range as well. Good luck on whatever you decide you choose.

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MarshallG
MarshallG Veteran Member • Posts: 7,476
Re: Why High ISO?
2

Photoclever wrote:

MarshallG wrote:

When I shoot landscapes, I often use a tripod and open the shutter as long as needed. I keep my ISO at 100 for landscapes.
There are other things that matter in landscapes, like the sensor’s dynamic range.
But any of the newer FF Canons can handle ISO 6400, that’s not very high these days, depending on the results you’re expecting.

Any FF Canon back to the 5D3 can handle 6400 well. That said, any FF camera is sacrificing some resolution and DR by 6400, even the newest sensors. You're not going to get max detail/sharpness/print size at 6400.

What I asked was, why is high ISO needed for landscape? When I shoot landscape I dial in ISO 100, use a tripod and let the shutter go as slow as it wants.

 MarshallG's gear list:MarshallG's gear list
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Photoclever Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: Why High ISO?

MarshallG wrote:

Photoclever wrote:

MarshallG wrote:

When I shoot landscapes, I often use a tripod and open the shutter as long as needed. I keep my ISO at 100 for landscapes.
There are other things that matter in landscapes, like the sensor’s dynamic range.
But any of the newer FF Canons can handle ISO 6400, that’s not very high these days, depending on the results you’re expecting.

Any FF Canon back to the 5D3 can handle 6400 well. That said, any FF camera is sacrificing some resolution and DR by 6400, even the newest sensors. You're not going to get max detail/sharpness/print size at 6400.

What I asked was, why is high ISO needed for landscape? When I shoot landscape I dial in ISO 100, use a tripod and let the shutter go as slow as it wants.

Maybe he's not shooting with a tripod all the time? Or at all?

If the latter a tripod should be budgeted into whatever he buys.

1Dx4me Forum Pro • Posts: 10,467
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

Christopher D Mann wrote:

My personal favorite so far is the 5DSr with the 16-35 F4 L IS on a tripod with mirror lockup set to 1 second to help reduce ant type of shutter vibration. At 50 mp you get all of the great detail that you want and with the lens mentioned it is really sharp with good tonal range as well. Good luck on whatever you decide you choose.

anytime when landscape photography is mentioned, people automatically think of UW lenses. i have used my canon 100-400 II for landscape the most, especially for sunsets! using tripod for late afternoons is ok but lets keep in mind that 100400 II has a 4 stop IS built in it, which helps a lot. the other lens that i use a lot for landscape is canon 24-70 f2.8 II--it is a great lens, gives me prime quality files.

i do agree with you about 5DsR's high rez sensor for landscape or anything use. i acquired my 5DsR a couple months ago and i am impressed what a versatile camera it is. i have been using mine for birding and insects quite a bit lately and i am very impressed with its performance. it'll be a while for me to decide on a R5 so i am in no hurry, right now.

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OP raven4ns2 Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA
1

I have made my decision on my next camera, it will be the Canon 5Dmkiv. This will be my last camera in all likelihood as I am 73. At the moment I am unsure when exactly I will get it as my wife is dying of cancer and my days and nights are completely taken up.

Besides, it is hard to be creative when you are under this kind of stress. I am looking forward to using it under less stressful conditions. Thank you everyone for your help, it is most appreciated.

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Tim
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44673530@N04/
The measure of a man is not how many times he gets knocked down...... It is how many times he gets back up.

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GreatWhiteWing Senior Member • Posts: 1,352
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

raven4ns2 wrote:

I have made my decision on my next camera, it will be the Canon 5Dmkiv. This will be my last camera in all likelihood as I am 73. At the moment I am unsure when exactly I will get it as my wife is dying of cancer and my days and nights are completely taken up.

Besides, it is hard to be creative when you are under this kind of stress. I am looking forward to using it under less stressful conditions. Thank you everyone for your help, it is most appreciated.

OMG so sorry to hear of your wife. Can't fathom what that must be like.

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photopeteralfa
photopeteralfa Regular Member • Posts: 187
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

raven4ns2 wrote:

I have made my decision on my next camera, it will be the Canon 5Dmkiv. This will be my last camera in all likelihood as I am 73. At the moment I am unsure when exactly I will get it as my wife is dying of cancer and my days and nights are completely taken up.

Besides, it is hard to be creative when you are under this kind of stress. I am looking forward to using it under less stressful conditions. Thank you everyone for your help, it is most appreciated.

I am so sorry to hear that, no one should ever have to go through what you and your wife are going through.

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OP raven4ns2 Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

Thank you.

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Tim
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44673530@N04/
The measure of a man is not how many times he gets knocked down...... It is how many times he gets back up.

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MarshallG
MarshallG Veteran Member • Posts: 7,476
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

My dearest and best wishes to you and your family.

 MarshallG's gear list:MarshallG's gear list
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Photoclever Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA
1

raven4ns2 wrote:

I have made my decision on my next camera, it will be the Canon 5Dmkiv. This will be my last camera in all likelihood as I am 73. At the moment I am unsure when exactly I will get it as my wife is dying of cancer and my days and nights are completely taken up.

I am truly sorry you have to go through that. I wish the best for you and your wife in the time that you have left together.

rsmithsd73
rsmithsd73 Regular Member • Posts: 298
Re: WOULD LIKE SUGGESTIONS ON NEW LANDSCAPE CAMERA

I'm so sorry to hear about your wife. Wishing you peace through a terrible time.

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KariP
KariP Veteran Member • Posts: 5,701
Re: 5DMkIV is the best alternative

Photoclever wrote:

KariP wrote:

35 vs 45 megapixels is not "much higher".

The 5D4 has 30mp with a stronger AA filter.

I have not seen any tests that tell that R5 has greater DR.

Photons to photos has published the DR graph for the R5 and it's 1ev better at base ISO. This site has their studio scene up and the R5 clearly records more detail and has better high ISO (when inspected at the same view size).

None of this is to knock the 5D4 which is an excellent camera.

I had read only one test - did not find any other

In Digitalcameraworld.com LAB tests  the resolution difference  5DMkIV vs R5) was not very impressive -  of course there must a difference in tests. Nikon and Sony had more resolution in lab comparisons . At base ISO 100 the DR (5D vs R5)  is exactly the same and in higher ISO 5DMkIV is better.

Of course there will be more tests  rather soon and results will be different - depends on methodology .  To me it is a bit surprising that a sensor in 5DMkIV from 2016 is almost as good as the best Canon camera in 2020. Of course the sensor in R5 is optimised also for video and speed and faster AF. And it should be. Video and fast tracking/focusing is not so important in landscape photography

My idea was that for the money 5DMkIV  is absolutely the best alternative.

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Kari
I started SLR film photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fujifilm X-E3 and X-H1 for nature, walking around ,traveling/landscapes - fantastic 5DMkIV for landscapes, macro , BIF ... .

 KariP's gear list:KariP's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Fujifilm X-E3 Fujifilm X-H1 Canon EF 50mm F1.4 USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM +11 more
Photoclever Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: 5DMkIV is the best alternative

KariP wrote:

In Digitalcameraworld.com LAB tests the resolution difference 5DMkIV vs R5) was not very impressive

At base ISO 100 the DR (5D vs R5) is exactly the same and in higher ISO 5DMkIV is better.

Note that DR at high ISO is similar for all cameras because it's dominated by photon shot noise.

My idea was that for the money 5DMkIV is absolutely the best alternative.

The 5D4 is an excellent camera that covers a lot of use cases (subjects and print sizes). I would never debate that point, only the point that it's equal in all respects to a 5Ds/sR, R5, D850, etc. Each person has to choose what camera best fits their needs. Having said that, when someone says "landscapes" my mind runs to big prints saturated with detail. IMHO that means 5Ds/sR, R5, D850/Z7, A7r3/4, or MF.

But that's nitpicking which is better on a specific point because as I said in another post, for years any shipping DSLR would be capable of 16x24" prints with good detail. For someone who makes the occasional 20"/24" print the 5D4's features might win the day. For someone making big prints regularly, every pixel counts and maybe they're shooting MF because even an R5 isn't enough for their needs.

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