AF-D Lens Hope

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AdaptedLenses Regular Member • Posts: 470
AF-D Lens Hope
5

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support

Technologically possible, let's hope this puts some pressure on Nikon to do the same with a AFDTZ to whatever they want to call it.

cosmicnode Veteran Member • Posts: 5,758
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
4

AdaptedLenses wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support

Technologically possible, let's hope this puts some pressure on Nikon to do the same with a AFDTZ to whatever they want to call it.

It only took 6 years . They must be feeling the pressure from Nikon and canon having so many older mount mount lenses able to function on current bodies. unfortunate for screw drive users,in F mount however.

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OP AdaptedLenses Regular Member • Posts: 470
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
3

No doubt. Cheap lenses for entry is helpful.

Only thing that gives me pause in my hopes for a Nikon version, is only the new Sony bodies support screw drive AF, and those have a new processor. Likely the current processor (which may or may not be true for Nikon) can't handle the AF calcs on the older lenses without their own controllers. Pure speculation, but can always hope!

FuhTeng
FuhTeng Senior Member • Posts: 1,277
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
5

AdaptedLenses wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support

Technologically possible, let's hope this puts some pressure on Nikon to do the same with a AFDTZ to whatever they want to call it.

I sure hope so. I don't even have lenses affected by this but what a silly miss by Nikon at Z-mount release.

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shuncheung Senior Member • Posts: 2,028
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
7

cosmicnode wrote:

AdaptedLenses wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support

Technologically possible, let's hope this puts some pressure on Nikon to do the same with a AFDTZ to whatever they want to call it.

It only took 6 years . They must be feeling the pressure from Nikon and canon having so many older mount mount lenses able to function on current bodies. unfortunate for screw drive users,in F mount however.

We always know that technically it is possible, as Sony already had a previous version of this type of adapter. This looks like Sony's version 2. But take a look at how small that AF motor is inside the Sony adapter. If Nikon made one, I doubt that AF would be fast and AF accuracy could be an issue, and it is one bulky adapter. Perhaps it would be ok for a small 24mm/f2.8 AF-D, but a 80-200mm/f2.8 AF-D or 300mm/f4 AF (and there are even 300mm/f2.8 with screwdriver AF too) might not work very well.

IMO Nikon has much higher priorities to expand the Z system both in terms of new bodies and especially lenses, both FX and DX. Since Sony had a head start by several years, Nikon is still quite behind in terms of Z-mount lens selections, rather than spending effort on an adapter to match old AF lenses mostly from the 1990's and earlier.

However, nothing really prevents third parties from making such an adapter for AF/AF-D lenses to AF with Z bodies. There are already third-party adapters for other mounts. The main issue is whether such product can be profitable.

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Paul Pasco
Paul Pasco Veteran Member • Posts: 8,457
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
2

Of course the technology exists and I am convinced that it was at least a passing thought when Nikon made the FT-1 adapter for the N1 system. The mount on FT-1 has a little milled depression right where the screw drive would fall. I am guessing that Nikon feels that they don’t want to support old technology.

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OP AdaptedLenses Regular Member • Posts: 470
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
4

Fair points, but A) this shouldn't be a taxing adapter to make. The mechanics are straight forward and they know all the protocols. And B) Nikon's goal seems to be to increase Z adoption. There are still screw drive lenses without AF-S or Z equivalent, and more inexpensive lens options helps penetration. I wouldn't mind a 35/2D on a Z5/6 myself though the 35/1.8S is better in nearly every conceivable way.

Any way you slice is, a compact screw drive adapter, even if it's slow compared to modern lenses (which will be expected) will help move more units.

shuncheung wrote:

cosmicnode wrote:

AdaptedLenses wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support

Technologically possible, let's hope this puts some pressure on Nikon to do the same with a AFDTZ to whatever they want to call it.

It only took 6 years . They must be feeling the pressure from Nikon and canon having so many older mount mount lenses able to function on current bodies. unfortunate for screw drive users,in F mount however.

We always know that technically it is possible, as Sony already had a previous version of this type of adapter. This looks like Sony's version 2. But take a look at how small that AF motor is inside the Sony adapter. If Nikon made one, I doubt that AF would be fast and AF accuracy could be an issue, and it is one bulky adapter. Perhaps it would be ok for a small 24mm/f2.8 AF-D, but a 80-200mm/f2.8 AF-D or 300mm/f4 AF (and there are even 300mm/f2.8 with screwdriver AF too) might not work very well.

IMO Nikon has much higher priorities to expand the Z system both in terms of new bodies and especially lenses, both FX and DX. Since Sony had a head start by several years, Nikon is still quite behind in terms of Z-mount lens selections, rather than spending effort on an adapter to match old AF lenses mostly from the 1990's and earlier.

However, nothing really prevents third parties from making such an adapter for AF/AF-D lenses to AF with Z bodies. There are already third-party adapters for other mounts. The main issue is whether such product can be profitable.

shuncheung Senior Member • Posts: 2,028
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
2

AdaptedLenses wrote:

Fair points, but A) this shouldn't be a taxing adapter to make. The mechanics are straight forward and they know all the protocols. And B) Nikon's goal seems to be to increase Z adoption. There are still screw drive lenses without AF-S or Z equivalent, and more inexpensive lens options helps penetration. I wouldn't mind a 35/2D on a Z5/6 myself though the 35/1.8S is better in nearly every conceivable way.

Any way you slice is, a compact screw drive adapter, even if it's slow compared to modern lenses (which will be expected) will help move more units.

Perhaps it is technically not a super difficult adapter to make, but it is easy to say that on paper but much harder to satisfy customers, who will no doubt demand at least decent AF speed, excellent AF accuracy, and a non-bulky adapter while maintaining a reasonable price. It become much harder to satisfy all of those requirements while making it worthwhile to stick a Nikon logo on it.

Essentially this is a backward-looking product, attempting to merry lenses from the 1990's and prior to 2018 and later bodies. Personally I would rather use all native Z-mount lenses designed for the short flange distance. The FTZ is merely an interim solution.

I would rather see Nikon as a forward-looking company accelerating their Z system development to compete against Sony and Canon. For such niche, backward-looking product, I would much rather let some third-party to come up with one. Quality could be lower without a Nikon brand name on it; it could be a lot more affordable too.

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nguyenhm16 Regular Member • Posts: 203
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
6

Lets say you're a Nikon photographer with a bag/shelf of AF-D lenses, some of which you still use or think you'd still like to use.

Then you think to yourself, hey maybe I'll check out mirrorless.

Right now, you're SOL with respect to your AF-D lenses with any mirrorless system. What do you pick if you want to move to mirrorless? Today, maybe Sony, maybe Canon, maybe Nikon since you're used to Nikon handling. But it's not an automatic choice to go with Nikon. On the Internet, Sony has a lot more "buzz" and mindshare while Nikon has the whiff of insularity and decline to it.

But what if there was a hypothetical FTD adapter? Then the choice to go with Nikon is a lot stronger, even if you only mount an AF-D lens once a year.

In other words, maybe it's backwards looking, but it gives a Nikon DSLR shooter more reason to move to Z mount. Today, what's Nikon's solution for the hypothetical shooter with a bunch of AF-D lenses? Nothing (manual focus doesn't count, you could do it on E mount before the Z mount even existed).

ghostfox_1 Forum Member • Posts: 90
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
3

I'm going to guess the amount of people that would use them isn't worth the R&D, manufacturing, etc costs.

Also that a lot of those lenses suck, and if the point is "better glass", using poor quality lenses could damage the brand, even if people knowingly do it.

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ZapperVT Contributing Member • Posts: 843
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
7

AdaptedLenses wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support

Technologically possible, let's hope this puts some pressure on Nikon to do the same with a AFDTZ to whatever they want to call it.

This is a "how hard can it be" type of question.  It looks like it should be easy.  After all, it seems like just putting pieces that are already there together - the screw drive mechanism and control electronics from the Dx bodies with the F to Z translation logic already in the FTZ.

But I'm an engineer, and I know from hard experience that the answer to "how hard can it be" is usually a lot harder than anyone expected, especially the engineer who signed up to design it.  So I understand Nikon deferring on a AFDTZ while there are so many gaping holes in the Z portfolio.

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Bernard Waxman Senior Member • Posts: 1,622
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
9

If you have a bunch of screw drive lenses, you have two reasonable options.  You can always use the lens in manual focus mode.  That really isn't all that difficult especially with an electronic viewfinder.  Or the other option is to use your lenses with a Nikon SLR that has a built in motor for screw mount lenses.

I see no reason why Nikon would waste its resources to make a screw mount adapter for their mirror-less cameras.  By the way, they make money by selling lenses.  I for one hope that Nikon stays in business.  I do not want to see them invest in something that will lose money.

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chambeshi Senior Member • Posts: 2,581
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
3

Well, Well.  Sony certainly shows up Nikon.

THe gap in a FTZd is a recurring subject. As for objections of penalties on accuracy etc. The Screwdriver Nikkors focus very well in Liveview on the D850, D780 etc.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63208742

Some more threads

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62315258

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61761247

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cosmicnode Veteran Member • Posts: 5,758
Re: AF-D Lens Hope

chambeshi wrote:

Well, Well. Sony certainly shows up Nikon.

THe gap in a FTZd is a recurring subject. As for objections of penalties on accuracy etc. The Screwdriver Nikkors focus very well in Liveview on the D850, D780 etc.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63208742

Some more threads

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62315258

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61761247

Have you seen the caveat's on this adaptor, look at the notes on the article.

Notes

i. As of Sept. 2020, focal plane phase-detection AF is supported for SSM/SAM lenses on the Alpha 7 III, Alpha 7R III, Alpha 7R IV, Alpha 6100, Alpha 6400, Alpha 6600, Alpha 9, Alpha 9 II, and Alpha 7S III. Focal plane phase-detection is supported for lenses that do not have internal focus motors on the Alpha 7R IV and Alpha 6600.

ii. STF lenses are manual focus only. Teleconverters are not supported.

iii. Autofocus is not available during movie recording.

iv. For AE tracking, the aperture is fixed for the first frame while shutter speed and ISO are used for exposure adjustment.

v. Maximum continuous shooting speed is 10 fps with the Alpha 7R IV, Alpha 9, and Alpha 9 II, and 11 fps with the Alpha 6600. Continuous shooting speed may change depending on the attached lens.

vi. The Alpha 7R IV must be updated to software V1.20 or later, and the Alpha 6600 must be updated to software V1.10 or later.

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OP AdaptedLenses Regular Member • Posts: 470
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
4

No one said it was a free lunch, but an option with limitations is better than no option at all.

Also, wondered about it before, but since only A7RIV and A6600 can handle the screw drive lenses, it may be the older processors can't handle the AF calcs for screw drive lenses. In that case, could see similar, with the rumored dual processors in the Z6S and Z7S being needed to drive AF-D lenses. That's be a shame, but still a better option than what we got.

cosmicnode wrote:

chambeshi wrote:

Well, Well. Sony certainly shows up Nikon.

THe gap in a FTZd is a recurring subject. As for objections of penalties on accuracy etc. The Screwdriver Nikkors focus very well in Liveview on the D850, D780 etc.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63208742

Some more threads

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62315258

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61761247

Have you seen the caveat's on this adaptor, look at the notes on the article.

Notes

i. As of Sept. 2020, focal plane phase-detection AF is supported for SSM/SAM lenses on the Alpha 7 III, Alpha 7R III, Alpha 7R IV, Alpha 6100, Alpha 6400, Alpha 6600, Alpha 9, Alpha 9 II, and Alpha 7S III. Focal plane phase-detection is supported for lenses that do not have internal focus motors on the Alpha 7R IV and Alpha 6600.

ii. STF lenses are manual focus only. Teleconverters are not supported.

iii. Autofocus is not available during movie recording.

iv. For AE tracking, the aperture is fixed for the first frame while shutter speed and ISO are used for exposure adjustment.

v. Maximum continuous shooting speed is 10 fps with the Alpha 7R IV, Alpha 9, and Alpha 9 II, and 11 fps with the Alpha 6600. Continuous shooting speed may change depending on the attached lens.

vi. The Alpha 7R IV must be updated to software V1.20 or later, and the Alpha 6600 must be updated to software V1.10 or later.

Stavrosf Regular Member • Posts: 118
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
4

https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/an-un-bashing.html

This is Thom Hogan view on the subject.

BTW, I don't have any D or non D screw drive lens any more (I used to have 24 AF non-D, 28 AF-D and 35 AF-D), but I agree with him, Nikon needs to give priority to other things.

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avatar77 Regular Member • Posts: 280
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
2

Bernard Waxman wrote:

I see no reason why Nikon would waste its resources to make a screw mount adapter for their mirror-less cameras. By the way, they make money by selling lenses. I for one hope that Nikon stays in business. I do not want to see them invest in something that will lose money.

But what about one of this site's most infamous trolls and his D700? Why isn't Nikon catering to his needs??

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Richard B99 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,032
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
2

AdaptedLenses wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5851213370/sony-releases-new-a-mount-to-e-mount-lens-adapter-with-built-in-screw-drive-support

Technologically possible, let's hope this puts some pressure on Nikon to do the same with a AFDTZ to whatever they want to call it.

Possible but I hope they don’t do it, or at least for five years or so.  Right now, Nikon just needs to spend their time and resources on looking forward not backward.

bmoag Senior Member • Posts: 2,744
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
2

I have a bunch of film era Nikon F screw driven auto-focus lenses.

Most of them are pretty awful, so there's that.

Since older FF Nikon dSLRs can autofocus these beasts the problem has nothing to do with electronics or even mechanics. It should also be possible fully adapt indexing and iris control for older manual focus lenses. There's plenty of room inside the form factor of the FTZ to do anything.

At this point it is not clear if there is a market to justify the cost of such an adapter--the Sony ain't cheap and the retail price of the FTZ adapter makes it insanely priced for the little it actually does. Using the retail price of the FTZ adapter as a base Nikon would probably ask $500 or more for the adapter it should have made in the first place.

I wouldn't buy one at that price.

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OP AdaptedLenses Regular Member • Posts: 470
Re: AF-D Lens Hope
2

Thom also says he’d like to see one some day. Personally I’ll be happy without the big annoying foot, and it saves non CPU Exif.

I also am of the opinion (and Thom’s is also an opinion albeit very well informed) that a screw drive adapter lowers the cost for entry to the Z system. Now with an excellent entry Z camera, let people use their screw drive lenses and “play” with Mirrorless. I get short term they can make more money elsewhere but still believe it’s beneficial long term. A lot of Sony’s success was built on its adaptability...

Stavrosf wrote:

https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/an-un-bashing.html

This is Thom Hogan view on the subject.

BTW, I don't have any D or non D screw drive lens any more (I used to have 24 AF non-D, 28 AF-D and 35 AF-D), but I agree with him, Nikon needs to give priority to other things.

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