so is back button focus needed anymore with the r5

[gilliano]

my friend has the sony a9 and he said he stopped using back button focus.

i was trying to figure out if i would need it on my r5. i had it enabled then i turned off and it seems to be just as fast.

Thanks,
Sid

Actually, I’ve found that TWO back buttons offer flexibility and the ability to use two focus methods (animal eye and spot) in order to better select and track my subjects. It’s been ground breaking.

How do you set Two Back Buttons to "animal eye"?

Sounds like current eye focus priority is people assigned to shutter butter, and it switches to animal eye with BBF.

Carlyon pretty much nailed it. AF-On set to spot AF with the * button set to Animal Eye AF tracking. This allows for better overall control of your focus as situations arise.

Otherwise, it's more challenging.

How do you set * to animal eye AF? I can only set to eye AF, to choose people or animal priorities via menu.

I personally don't like assign Eye AF to BBF. This way cannot move the initial AF point or switch between the eyes for eye AF since your finger (thumb) is occupied.

It can be done by shutter release naturally and it's a waste setting to BBF.

I set the depth of preview button on the front to toggle eye AF on and off. That way if I'm tracking something like a bird and it moves into an area with a busy background i just turn eye AF off with my ring finger and keep tracking. This seems to have solved the issue with water or branches confusing the AF for me. When I can see the eye clearly or the background changes I can turn it back on instantly. And it leaves your thumb free to do whatever else you need to do.

Im still somewhat confused as to how people are setting a button to switch to Spot though, can anyone explain like I'm five?

 

[dgumshu]

For those of you who shoot birds and have questions about setting up back buttons, please view this video:

 

[f8f8f8]

Gilliano,

I also have the depth of field button set up to turn on eye detection autofocus. However, I am unable to have it do that with my designated intial servo AF point. If I am in any other AF mode and push the DOF button I do get eye detection AF but without my designated initial servo AF point. In other words, I can't control where the camera will intially look to AF. That would be helpful with far subjects, confusing surroundings, etc. Is there a way to set the DOF button, or another button do do that? That is, turn on eye detect AF WITH my designated initial servo AF point?

f8f8f8

 

[User5942872967]

my friend has the sony a9 and he said he stopped using back button focus.

i was trying to figure out if i would need it on my r5. i had it enabled then i turned off and it seems to be just as fast.

Thanks,
Sid

Actually, I’ve found that TWO back buttons offer flexibility and the ability to use two focus methods (animal eye and spot) in order to better select and track my subjects. It’s been ground breaking.

How do you set Two Back Buttons to "animal eye"?

Sounds like current eye focus priority is people assigned to shutter butter, and it switches to animal eye with BBF.

Carlyon pretty much nailed it. AF-On set to spot AF with the * button set to Animal Eye AF tracking. This allows for better overall control of your focus as situations arise.

Otherwise, it's more challenging.

How do you set * to animal eye AF? I can only set to eye AF, to choose people or animal priorities via menu.

I personally don't like assign Eye AF to BBF. This way cannot move the initial AF point or switch between the eyes for eye AF since your finger (thumb) is occupied.

It can be done by shutter release naturally and it's a waste setting to BBF.

For me it all depends on what I’m shooting. If it a bird or most animals I use the rectangle bracket one. Same goes for sports fast action that way I can move the focus with the Thumbstick. I have continuous focus on and it keeps up. I use face detection if it is only one person.

 

[David Carlyon]

That means no way to toggle eye AF between people and animal with the two BBF.

Yeah, I'm not aware of any shortcut in any configuration currently to switch between people and animal AF. Quickest way is to put it in a quick-menu. Canon really should address this and add a way to toggle it with a button, and an option to have one button for people BBF and one for animal BBF would be very handy for certain photographers who work with animals and people together.

 

[David Carlyon]

But you need to remember you don't get AF by just pressing the shutter button (I did really well at this but some people just seem to forget from time-to-time).

If you don't have your cameras set up like this ALL the time, then one might forget which setup they're in. It's kind of all or nothing, or was for me at least. Once you have the muscle-memory down, forgetting is unlikely.

 

[Jon555]

But you need to remember you don't get AF by just pressing the shutter button (I did really well at this but some people just seem to forget from time-to-time).

If you don't have your cameras set up like this ALL the time, then one might forget which setup they're in. It's kind of all or nothing, or was for me at least. Once you have the muscle-memory down, forgetting is unlikely.

Depends what other cameras you use and if they support BBF too...

 

[gilliano]

Gilliano,

I also have the depth of field button set up to turn on eye detection autofocus. However, I am unable to have it do that with my designated intial servo AF point. If I am in any other AF mode and push the DOF button I do get eye detection AF but without my designated initial servo AF point. In other words, I can't control where the camera will intially look to AF. That would be helpful with far subjects, confusing surroundings, etc. Is there a way to set the DOF button, or another button do do that? That is, turn on eye detect AF WITH my designated initial servo AF point?

f8f8f8

Hmm, I am not 100% sure I follow but I think that in face/ eye tracking AF mode with Eye AF detect on it just jumps to whatever it thinks the eye is. I have my * button set up for center the AF point and I use that to recompose on the fly if needed. I've been doing that for a few years with the R so it's pretty instant for me now. I've also been messing around with not using the BBF and for action I do think it works better without and you have more freedom to make other adjustments to your AF as required. Hard to change your whole style though.

I do think people in this thread are way over-relying on the Eye AF, the subject needs to be pretty large in the frame for it to work perfectly. And it will not work well with a busy background, regular tracking without Eye AF turned on is going to be your best bet there if you need to track but getting initial acquisition can be tough.

 

[Ray Chen]

...Canon really should address this and add a way to toggle it with a button, and an option to have one button for people BBF and one for animal BBF would be very handy for certain photographers who work with animals and people together.

Why do we even care it is an animal's or a person's eye? It should just work from the initial starting AF point regardless.

 

[f8f8f8]

Perhaps the DOF button can't be assigned to eye focus with a predertimed AF point as a starting point. I use that to choose which person (eye) to have the camera focus on and recompose to frame as desired while the camera keeps that eye in focus. Can another single button be assigned to do those tasks simultaneously (eye AF on AND a predetermined AF point)?

 

[Nerdferkel]

I don't think it's needed anymore, even for the EOS R. I still use it, though, because the muscle memory is so strong. It doesn't feel natural to me to use the shutter button to focus.

 

[David Carlyon]

...Canon really should address this and add a way to toggle it with a button, and an option to have one button for people BBF and one for animal BBF would be very handy for certain photographers who work with animals and people together.

Why do we even care it is an animal's or a person's eye? It should just work from the initial starting AF point regardless.

I imagine when you select "no preference" or whatever it's called, then it does something like this. But I've heard it doesn't perform as well as when you specify the target. I'm guessing it would require extra processing to pick between both human and various animal species. Future models (or perhaps even firmware updates) may be able to do this without a noticeable performance hit.

 

[User5942872967]

so it's been 7 months what are you all seeing?

I've been using AF on always so whatever i'm focused on is going to get AF started way before i hit the shutter button.

i shot basketball and track events. I don't think i'm going to BBF anymore. I've shot whales and birds too.

 

[Blokfluitist]

so it's been 7 months what are you all seeing?

I've been using AF on always so whatever i'm focused on is going to get AF started way before i hit the shutter button.

i shot basketball and track events. I don't think i'm going to BBF anymore. I've shot whales and birds too.

I still use the shutter button for static shots and BBF for moving objects, set up 3 ways.

I've been shooting a lot of small flowers just above ground level lately with the LCD screen flipped out and a manual focus macro lens, so I needed my thumb to hold the camera steady!


Rose
-----

https://www.facebook.com/roseatkinsoncreative

https://www.facebook.com/naturebyrose

 

[mike1055]

so it's been 7 months what are you all seeing?

I've been using AF on always so whatever i'm focused on is going to get AF started way before i hit the shutter button.

i shot basketball and track events. I don't think i'm going to BBF anymore. I've shot whales and birds too.

I still use the shutter button for static shots and BBF for moving objects, set up 3 ways.

I've been shooting a lot of small flowers just above ground level lately with the LCD screen flipped out and a manual focus macro lens, so I needed my thumb to hold the camera steady!

Rose
-----
https://www.facebook.com/roseatkinsoncreative
https://www.facebook.com/naturebyrose

I don't understand this, if you are using manual focus your thumb isn't needed for BBF. One of the reasons I like BBF is the ability to tweak focus manually and not have to worry about the camera changing that when I push the shutter button since it isn't set for focus at half push. I know I could switch lens to manual focus but found it easier to use auto focus to get focus close then manual to fine tune. Just bought the R5 and will continue with BBF but I will be experimenting with different set ups until I find one that works best for what I like to do.

 

[User5942872967]

so it's been 7 months what are you all seeing?

I've been using AF on always so whatever i'm focused on is going to get AF started way before i hit the shutter button.

i shot basketball and track events. I don't think i'm going to BBF anymore. I've shot whales and birds too.

I still use the shutter button for static shots and BBF for moving objects, set up 3 ways.

I've been shooting a lot of small flowers just above ground level lately with the LCD screen flipped out and a manual focus macro lens, so I needed my thumb to hold the camera steady!

Rose
-----
https://www.facebook.com/roseatkinsoncreative
https://www.facebook.com/naturebyrose

I don't understand this, if you are using manual focus your thumb isn't needed for BBF. One of the reasons I like BBF is the ability to tweak focus manually and not have to worry about the camera changing that when I push the shutter button since it isn't set for focus at half push. I know I could switch lens to manual focus but found it easier to use auto focus to get focus close then manual to fine tune. Just bought the R5 and will continue with BBF but I will be experimenting with different set ups until I find one that works best for what I like to do.

i used BBF when i first got mine. then i started using option continuous AF set to on. once i started using that i feel that it keeps up with the moving object well enough.

have fun.

 

[PhotoFoxx]

But even for this, BBF is not needed as you can just turn your focus ring to adjust focus (there are option for this in the menu)

I never understood the reason for using BBF. People keep saying its an advantage in some situation to not having the camera focusing again but I can not think of such a situation. If the camera doesn't focus, your image is out of focus. Why would you want that?

With the R5 and the RP I am just using servo and that's it. As even if you are holding still and your model (in case of a portrait) stands still, the slightest move will reduce sharpness. So even in this situation I would not switch to another mode and use servo.

Even on my old canon rebel I switched to servo as it worked quit well.

Currently I am trying out switching to Eye detection via AF-ON button. This is a nice variant as others have mentioned because in cases where Auto detection doesn't know what I want to have in focus I can use de single point as default and hold down AF-On to use face detection

 

[Blokfluitist]

But even for this, BBF is not needed as you can just turn your focus ring to adjust focus (there are option for this in the menu)

I never understood the reason for using BBF. People keep saying its an advantage in some situation to not having the camera focusing again but I can not think of such a situation. If the camera doesn't focus, your image is out of focus. Why would you want that?

With the R5 and the RP I am just using servo and that's it. As even if you are holding still and your model (in case of a portrait) stands still, the slightest move will reduce sharpness. So even in this situation I would not switch to another mode and use servo.

Even on my old canon rebel I switched to servo as it worked quit well.

Currently I am trying out switching to Eye detection via AF-ON button. This is a nice variant as others have mentioned because in cases where Auto detection doesn't know what I want to have in focus I can use de single point as default and hold down AF-On to use face detection

An example I can give you from my own experience is aviation photography. Using BBF I acquire focus on the plane and keep the button pressed. The plane is now in focus and is being tracked across the sky in servo mode. Using the shutter button I can then follow the plane and fire off a combination shots as and when I want, eg: click, click, pause, burst, pause, burst, pause, click. Because BBF is pressed the whole time, the plane remains in focus and the camera doesn't need to reacquire focus in between shots. (The shutter button does not overrule BBF so it won't try to refocus.) You can't do this using the shutter button alone, because the moment you release your finger from the shutter after taking a shot, or burst of shots, you have to reacquire focus again.

 

[PhotoFoxx]

For such a scenario, I just half press the shutter to acquire focus and measurements, then full press it for taking the shot. Then back to half press. With this I can do single or burst shots as I like without ever having to refocus from scratch (in servo mode it does that anyway).

Ist that exactly the same what the default shutter button layout already does? I have been doing it that way since my first DSLR, although back then it was mostly in single shot instead of servo, for the classic recompose for example.

With this you can take single or even burst shots, by just never fully releasing the shutter button.

With the R cameras you can now also basically use servo mode by default and only switch to single in case its too dark, in which scenario single performs a bit better.

In my case I find it more useful, as others have mentioned, to keep the camera in servo + single point focus and user the AF button to switch to face detection. This allows me to instantly switch between focus modes depending on the situation. as there are situations where the automatic face or object detection has other "opinions" than the photographer ^^

Does anyone know if its also possible to switch focus modes by pressing a button instead of having to keep pressing the AF button? I like the idea but it would be enough for me to just switch so my thumb is free again for using the joystick to select a specific object.

 

[cortlander1]

Does anyone know if its also possible to switch focus modes by pressing a button instead of having to keep pressing the AF button? I like the idea but it would be enough for me to just switch so my thumb is free again for using the joystick to select a specific object.

You can customize AF point selection button (right most btn) to direct method selection. It is very fast to move from one mode to another.

Personally, setting the main AF to Animal Eye, Servo, and AF5 on auto, Shutter to default focus and meter, and AF on to spot works great. If the shutter does not find the eye you want, press spot on the eye you need and it will. If you want, you can set * to zone. M-fn to C.

--
cortlander
http://www.photoshah.com