x100v bokeh much less pleasing than x100t? ('restless')

Chris Dodkin wrote:

R_U_Q_R_U wrote:

Understood, but it seems a display bug that it is not showing the red 1/2000 instead of 1/4000 in manual mode.

Agree 100%

This dirty little secret of leaf shutters it not well known - the focus tends to be on how amazing they are for sync with flash at any speed.

Again, that's probably historical marketing from manufacturers who wanted to promote the benefits, and not mention possible limitations

Thanks for illuminating this issue. I really think Fujifilm should make that more explicit in the Specifications section of the manual. It seems a bit misleading.

If shooting in natural light you can just use the ES to eliminate the issue completely.

Luisdent wrote:

yes, that is possible. however, i personally never use ES. it causes artifacts with motion even apart from non natural light. obviously that won't affect a simple portrait, but that goes back to the same issue, you would need to remember to switch shutter types for each shot.

No, it will switch automatically as needed in MS+ES mode. Also, the electronic shutter used in the V is a lot faster than in the older cameras - maybe a tad noisier, but much less chance of any motion/bokeh problems - I haven't seen any..

now the experience has gone from something easy like an XT model (even in manual... set ss, set aperture, set iso.... three easy steps the same on every shot) to something annoyingly easy to mess up (set ss, set aperture, set iso, enable ND if needed, use menus to enable ES if needed or make sure ss is lower than 500 if needed...) it just becomes too much to have to think about and easy to mess up and more time consuming if the shots are changing all the time...

In MS+ES mode I haven't noticed any particular bokeh problems problems at any SS (and no having to switch the (lousy) ND filter on and off again). There certainly aren't any issues around 1/1000" and below...

No bokeh problems here at 1/1000" and f/2

The electronic shutter at 1/5000" and f/2 here. Not the greatest bokeh, but it isn't with the MS either.

so yes, it is a possible solution, but unfortunately not ideal for me. again not a deal breaker, but basically i feel like the issue/limitation exists and it is simply worse for it. if it didn't have that issue it would be nearly perfect. :-o

On the subject of the built-in ND goes, it stinks. Especially prone to veiling flare/ loss of contrast, shooting into any sort of bright light using the built-in ND will usually come with some unwanted (and very visible) side effects...

Electronic shutter (L), Built-in ND with mechanical shutter (R)

I'll try to do a bokeh comparison with the ES at very high speed vs. the ND later today, but other than the very noticeable flare in the ND image above, these look the same to me (but there isn't any real bokeh to compare).

Luisdent wrote:

interesting. thanks. I've wanted to do a more thorough bokeh test myself too. i did a quick one in a parking lot once and above 1/500 was obviois jitter to me. but if you use ms+es, why would it use the es at only 1/1000? does it know the limit of the shutter and automatically switch to es when the leaf shutter isn't fast enough? i had assume it kicked in only aftrr the max mechanical shutter was met, which on the x100v i thought was 1/2000 or 1/4000... that seems like what my xt30 does, but maybe I'm wrong.

The ES doesn’t kick in automatically until the leaf shutter maxes out (I think between1/2000” and 1/4000” depending on the aperture. There was some mention of the leaf shutter creating some bokeh issues of its own at some higher shutter speeds too (around 1/1000”), but I haven’t seen that either (the first flower shot is with the leaf shutter at 1/1000”).

i was always off put by that big time as i lost some very nice candid portrait shots once indoors where it caused the light to band. found out it was the es and what effects it can cause and turned it off ever since. but i may need to try it on the x100v. i never noticed it on the xt30 before that issue so it must have been decent most of the time.

There can be banding issues with the ES with certain kinds of artificial light at some SS settings but, with MS+ES, the ES will never kick with indoor lighting.

also, are you using a lens hood?

I now use the Haoge LUV X54W and my hat if necessary.

The ES/ND filter comparison was shot with a hood and no filter.

P.S. It’s not bright enough out today to get the SS high enough for a proper ES test, it might have to wait a few days.

Chris Dodkin wrote:

te321 wrote:

Good question Chris, thanks.

When I playback this photo on my x100v it shows "MS" next to the single white histogram when I hit the up joystick twice. I think that means it fired with the manual shutter.

In the settings, 'Shooting Setting' page 2/3 has 'Shutter Type' on 'MS'.

Are there any other settings that might override this one?

if you are truly on MS and not one of the MS + ES modes, then shooting wide open at 1/2000 would be beyond you camera's shutter speed ability due to the limitations of the leaf shutter design.

The leaf shutter cannot cover that large an aperture in that time, leading to the image being overexposed.

In this case you're probably seeing overexposure destroying the smooth bokeh in the image due to clipping.

All good. The OP said they previously had an X100T and upgraded to X100V. I am assuming no change in shooting style and parameters.

Why would OP see a change in Bokeh when moving from T to V?

Night Pixel wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

te321 wrote:

Good question Chris, thanks.

When I playback this photo on my x100v it shows "MS" next to the single white histogram when I hit the up joystick twice. I think that means it fired with the manual shutter.

In the settings, 'Shooting Setting' page 2/3 has 'Shutter Type' on 'MS'.

Are there any other settings that might override this one?

if you are truly on MS and not one of the MS + ES modes, then shooting wide open at 1/2000 would be beyond you camera's shutter speed ability due to the limitations of the leaf shutter design.

The leaf shutter cannot cover that large an aperture in that time, leading to the image being overexposed.

In this case you're probably seeing overexposure destroying the smooth bokeh in the image due to clipping.

All good. The OP said they previously had an X100T and upgraded to X100V. I am assuming no change in shooting style and parameters.

Why would OP see a change in Bokeh when moving from T to V?

It would seem that the V has a significantly faster leaf shutter. the older cameras were leaf shutter limited to under 1/1000" at f/2, with the V being limited to under 1/2000". What does that mean in terms of bokeh effects? I don't know for sure (yet), but it stand to reason that the V will likely be better at 1/1000".

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Night Pixel wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

te321 wrote:

Good question Chris, thanks.

When I playback this photo on my x100v it shows "MS" next to the single white histogram when I hit the up joystick twice. I think that means it fired with the manual shutter.

In the settings, 'Shooting Setting' page 2/3 has 'Shutter Type' on 'MS'.

Are there any other settings that might override this one?

if you are truly on MS and not one of the MS + ES modes, then shooting wide open at 1/2000 would be beyond you camera's shutter speed ability due to the limitations of the leaf shutter design.

The leaf shutter cannot cover that large an aperture in that time, leading to the image being overexposed.

In this case you're probably seeing overexposure destroying the smooth bokeh in the image due to clipping.

All good. The OP said they previously had an X100T and upgraded to X100V. I am assuming no change in shooting style and parameters.

Why would OP see a change in Bokeh when moving from T to V?

It would seem that the V has a significantly faster leaf shutter. the older cameras were leaf shutter limited to under 1/1000" at f/2, with the V being limited to under 1/2000". What does that mean in terms of bokeh effects? I don't know for sure (yet), but it stand to reason that the V will likely be better at 1/1000".

It could also be a change in lens formulation since the V has an all-new lens compared to all previous members of the X100 line.