Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Dweeble Regular Member • Posts: 361
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

Very good point - I'm technically illiterate on all this stuff, but when/if printing it just seems common sense to ask a client roughly what sort of lighting and setting they plan to hang or view in. OK many say "don't know" but it gives me a lead where to go in  processing.

Like the Old Master reference too, we should spend more time thinking about them!

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 15,908
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

flyinglentris wrote:

I am assuming that this is never done and the offense of the display condition is simply tolerated and accepted.

Am I wrong?

What you want to do will require a lot of careful research.

At the very least, you'll have to investigate the color properties of your printer inks under your given light source. Just because you get a color match under a standard 6500K illuminant doesn't mean that your print will retain the color matching under a weird illuminant. For example, suppose you have a red apple, and the print matches the apple color exactly in sunlight: but there is no guarantee that the red apple and print will match under your illuminant because there's no guarantee that your inks have the same spectral reflectance as your apple. You could use a standard test target, but then the same problem occurs.

This kind of correction is not obvious nor is it straight-forward, but rather you need to do a considerable amount of lab testing with a wide sample of test subjects.

What we do now is easy: match colors as if they are photographed and viewed under bright daylight conditions, along with some ad hoc but not systematic corrections, such as boosting saturation and contrast when making a print. And then we take advantage of, and trust, the eye's own color constancy. I ought to mention that the color constancy problem, especially as it relates to automatic white balance, was one of the very first applications of artificial intelligence, way back in the 1950s!

But you are trying to make a print, viewed under an extreme light source, that will appear to give colors as they would look in daylight. That is very difficult, and perhaps not even fully explored in research. This problem will fall under the research topic of "Color appearance models". Here is the Wikipedia article on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_appearance_model

And here is a book you might want to study:

https://last.hit.bme.hu/download/firtha/video/Colorimetry/Fairchild_M._Color_appearance_models__2005.pdf

Good luck!

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flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

I am assuming that this is never done and the offense of the display condition is simply tolerated and accepted.

Am I wrong?

What you want to do will require a lot of careful research.

At the very least, you'll have to investigate the color properties of your printer inks under your given light source. Just because you get a color match under a standard 6500K illuminant doesn't mean that your print will retain the color matching under a weird illuminant. For example, suppose you have a red apple, and the print matches the apple color exactly in sunlight: but there is no guarantee that the red apple and print will match under your illuminant because there's no guarantee that your inks have the same spectral reflectance as your apple. You could use a standard test target, but then the same problem occurs.

This kind of correction is not obvious nor is it straight-forward, but rather you need to do a considerable amount of lab testing with a wide sample of test subjects.

What we do now is easy: match colors as if they are photographed and viewed under bright daylight conditions, along with some ad hoc but not systematic corrections, such as boosting saturation and contrast when making a print. And then we take advantage of, and trust, the eye's own color constancy. I ought to mention that the color constancy problem, especially as it relates to automatic white balance, was one of the very first applications of artificial intelligence, way back in the 1950s!

But you are trying to make a print, viewed under an extreme light source, that will appear to give colors as they would look in daylight. That is very difficult, and perhaps not even fully explored in research. This problem will fall under the research topic of "Color appearance models". Here is the Wikipedia article on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_appearance_model

And here is a book you might want to study:

https://last.hit.bme.hu/download/firtha/video/Colorimetry/Fairchild_M._Color_appearance_models__2005.pdf

Good luck!

Thanks for references. That PDF has 409 pages and that's a lot of expose' on the topic. I'll have to schedule it into my reading.

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 15,908
Complementary relationships

flyinglentris wrote:

Here is another example ...

Palette Cleansing Salad

Here, the strong natural complimentaries are Red and Green on a Red plate with a deep Black background to make the whole subject pop out. Here, Reds are bounded by Greens and Greens, bounded by Reds. Reflected light gives the cheese casts of Green or Red. The image looks fine on an electronic display, but what might happen to it when a print in some odd ambient light setting?

Complementary relationships do not have a straightforward, laboratory-measurable, analytic formulation. You can't simply measure the colors and plug in the color temperature into a calculator and get a result. Rather, they are a poorly-understood physiological phenomenon that is hard to quantify (and when it is quantified, it is nonlinear, which means that it is a difficult problem). So there isn't a good method to use beforehand to do what you want; instead, you'll have to do a number of tests and use your own eyes.

That isn't the only complementary relationship. For example, using a narrow depth of field on your subject, with a blurry background, will both make your subject look sharper and your background look blurrier. Placing your hand into room temperature water after hot water will make that water feel cold, but doing the same after cold water will make it feel warm.

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 15,908
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

flyinglentris wrote:

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

This problem will fall under the research topic of "Color appearance models". Here is the Wikipedia article on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_appearance_model

And here is a book you might want to study:

https://last.hit.bme.hu/download/firtha/video/Colorimetry/Fairchild_M._Color_appearance_models__2005.pdf

Good luck!

Thanks for references. That PDF has 409 pages and that's a lot of expose' on the topic. I'll have to schedule it into my reading.

I'd first go over the Wikipedia article to see if that can tell you whether or not to proceed further. The book I linked is an old version of a standard textbook on the subject, and while it does cover a lot about light and human vision which may be of general interest, it may be more than what you need.

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flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

This problem will fall under the research topic of "Color appearance models". Here is the Wikipedia article on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_appearance_model

And here is a book you might want to study:

https://last.hit.bme.hu/download/firtha/video/Colorimetry/Fairchild_M._Color_appearance_models__2005.pdf

Good luck!

Thanks for references. That PDF has 409 pages and that's a lot of expose' on the topic. I'll have to schedule it into my reading.

I'd first go over the Wikipedia article to see if that can tell you whether or not to proceed further. The book I linked is an old version of a standard textbook on the subject, and while it does cover a lot about light and human vision which may be of general interest, it may be more than what you need.

I have an avid interest in the topics of color representation in photography to suite my artistic efforts.  A good technical understanding is always in order to facilitate evaluation and application.

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

This problem will fall under the research topic of "Color appearance models". Here is the Wikipedia article on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_appearance_model

And here is a book you might want to study:

https://last.hit.bme.hu/download/firtha/video/Colorimetry/Fairchild_M._Color_appearance_models__2005.pdf

Good luck!

Thanks for references. That PDF has 409 pages and that's a lot of expose' on the topic. I'll have to schedule it into my reading.

I'd first go over the Wikipedia article to see if that can tell you whether or not to proceed further. The book I linked is an old version of a standard textbook on the subject, and while it does cover a lot about light and human vision which may be of general interest, it may be more than what you need.

The PDF is 15 years old, written as a 2005 revision. That means that a lot of its content probably shows up in current imaging products, from cameras to post processing software, with special regard for Color Management. I did some searching to confirm this and it appears to be the case, accounting for the great differences in features that I see in Affinity Photo and Designer, compared to my old CS4 Photoshop and Illustrator. In fact, it has helped me understand many of those features whereas prior to reading this PDF, I had simply waded in and used the features as given, instructionally. It helps immensely to know what's under the hood.  And it suggests more, including compression algorithms and artifact corrections for image files, etc.

I found Fairchild's PDF a good read, even with it being 15 years old and the equations frequently peppered in. It gives a good historical progression of development of Image processing going back into the 1980s (and prior) to 2005 and fills in a lot of details on CIE progression from tristimulus Human perception through instrumentation and on to image appearance models as they might be used in software (HDR, Tonal Compression, etc .).

Thanks for the reference.

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 18,054
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

flyinglentris wrote:

Are there situations where the display ambient lighting requires a planned color treatment for photographic images to ensure that the color look normal in those conditions?

I don't know. Has anyone come across one? I mean, I assume it would be for a print (I know you're specifically talking about prints) that is not anticipated to move from a particular display area.

On a related note, I've visited lots of museum photo exhibits, and most of the time the lighting seems fine to me even though it's not consistent among them all. However, on my most recent trip to The Getty in Los Angeles, I was appalled at the terrible lighting in an extensive exhibit of photos. It was so dimly lit that nothing could be appreciated. Totally ruined the experience. It was this one:

https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/unseen/index.html

Don't believe the shot of people standing in the gallery. It was much darker than that.

Here's a photo that my wife took in the exhibit (personal photography was allowed). You can work out the approximate illumination level from the EXIF:

flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

Are there situations where the display ambient lighting requires a planned color treatment for photographic images to ensure that the color look normal in those conditions?

I don't know. Has anyone come across one? I mean, I assume it would be for a print (I know you're specifically talking about prints) that is not anticipated to move from a particular display area.

Actually, as Mark S. Alben pointed out with the link to Fairchild's Rev 2 book, it has been a topic of research since the early 90s (late 80s), applicable in Color Appearance Models (Refer to MSA's posts). The CIE Illuminants, Tristimulus Color Spaces and so forth just don't address the particulars that Color Appearance Models do. And CAMs are being used today in many applications. However, they are mathematical formulas for treating Imaging Systems and Image Processing, and do not address techniques for corrected display lighting as in museums and galleries.

My first exposure to intentional ambient lighting for image display regarded information about per-Renaissance church and cathedral alter artwork that was intentionally lit to display the artist's true definitions of color (by the artist).

Knowledge about this sort of thing goes way back (Refer to Johannes Itten) and there is no reason to expect that photographic images may not be effected in the same way.  In fact, they are, as it is human visual traits at play, not imaging system, per se.

On a related note, I've visited lots of museum photo exhibits, and most of the time the lighting seems fine to me even though it's not consistent among them all. However, on my most recent trip to The Getty in Los Angeles, I was appalled at the terrible lighting in an extensive exhibit of photos. It was so dimly lit that nothing could be appreciated. Totally ruined the experience. It was this one:

https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/unseen/index.html

I am aware that the curators of some museums and galleries fall down on their understanding of lighting.   When you see inconsistent lighting in a museum, it may be due to an effort to accommodate original color rendering for specific pieces/works. And that's good.   A dark room with spot-lighting of works, to me, is probably necessary for multiple small works such as photos.  The problem is that its going to be that the same type of lighting may be used for each individual image and no care is taken to analyze what is needed, if the images are color.  For B&W photos, this may not matter so much.

It is rarely intentional to produce photographs that incorporate metameric and other human visual effects as part of their composition.   But for painterly works, it was quite common in certain post-Renaissance movements (Refer to "Language of Vision" by Gyory Kepes).

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 18,054
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

flyinglentris wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

Are there situations where the display ambient lighting requires a planned color treatment for photographic images to ensure that the color look normal in those conditions?

I don't know. Has anyone come across one? I mean, I assume it would be for a print (I know you're specifically talking about prints) that is not anticipated to move from a particular display area.

Actually, as Mark S. Alben pointed out with the link to Fairchild's Rev 2 book, it has been a topic of research since the early 90s (late 80s), applicable in Color Appearance Models (Refer to MSA's posts). The CIE Illuminants, Tristimulus Color Spaces and so forth just don't address the particulars that Color Appearance Models do. And CAMs are being used today in many applications. However, they are mathematical formulas for treating Imaging Systems and Image Processing, and do not address techniques for corrected display lighting as in museums and galleries.

My first exposure to intentional ambient lighting for image display regarded information about per-Renaissance church and cathedral alter artwork that was intentionally lit to display the artist's true definitions of color (by the artist).

Knowledge about this sort of thing goes way back (Refer to Johannes Itten) and there is no reason to expect that photographic images may not be effected in the same way. In fact, they are, as it is human visual traits at play, not imaging system, per se.

Is that a yes that photographic examples are known to exist, and a yes that they're prints that are not anticipated to move from a particular display area?

Michael Fryd
Michael Fryd Forum Pro • Posts: 13,193
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

A significant problem is small museums that emphasize low cost over quality light.
You can save money by using low cost LED lighting (both upfront, and in operating costs) rather than lighting that properly presents the work.

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flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

Michael Fryd wrote:

A significant problem is small museums that emphasize low cost over quality light.
You can save money by using low cost LED lighting (both upfront, and in operating costs) rather than lighting that properly presents the work.

There are other tricks that play on the human visual system, one being the color of Matte framing, to provide a surround color manipulation.  That's cheaper still and often is done anyway.   It's just important to ensure that the color of the matte board used is conducive to color coordination with the image and how it is adapted by the human visual system.

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

Are there situations where the display ambient lighting requires a planned color treatment for photographic images to ensure that the color look normal in those conditions?

I don't know. Has anyone come across one? I mean, I assume it would be for a print (I know you're specifically talking about prints) that is not anticipated to move from a particular display area.

Actually, as Mark S. Alben pointed out with the link to Fairchild's Rev 2 book, it has been a topic of research since the early 90s (late 80s), applicable in Color Appearance Models (Refer to MSA's posts). The CIE Illuminants, Tristimulus Color Spaces and so forth just don't address the particulars that Color Appearance Models do. And CAMs are being used today in many applications. However, they are mathematical formulas for treating Imaging Systems and Image Processing, and do not address techniques for corrected display lighting as in museums and galleries.

My first exposure to intentional ambient lighting for image display regarded information about per-Renaissance church and cathedral alter artwork that was intentionally lit to display the artist's true definitions of color (by the artist).

Knowledge about this sort of thing goes way back (Refer to Johannes Itten) and there is no reason to expect that photographic images may not be effected in the same way. In fact, they are, as it is human visual traits at play, not imaging system, per se.

Is that a yes that photographic examples are known to exist, and a yes that they're prints that are not anticipated to move from a particular display area?

I can't give you any examples of extant photographs that use the techniques of simultaneous and metameric manipulation intentionally and I think I stated that it would be rare.  I look to possibly using those techniques for color contrasting in photographic art (and I don't yet know where that will take me).  If the work is not intended to be moved from a particular display area, it might well require adjustments in lighting wherever it goes to ensure its effects are not lost.

Techniques of Color Appearance Models are definitely in use today for photographic imaging, you just aren't aware of it, as most people who have dug into color management only express a knowledge of the CIE Illuminants, tristimulus color matching and so forth.   Color Appearance Models are not so new, but to understand them, if you don't (like I didn't), you need to read up.   Refer to MSA's post with a link to the Fairchild 2nd edition PDF, as I did, to get started.  Ignore the math, if you don't like math and just get the flavor of what its all about.   You can also wiki for Color Appearance Models.   No, I am no expert on the topic as I am as new to it as this thread is new.

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 15,908
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light
1

Michael Fryd wrote:

A significant problem is small museums that emphasize low cost over quality light.
You can save money by using low cost LED lighting (both upfront, and in operating costs) rather than lighting that properly presents the work.

A major consideration is art conservation. Some materials are quite light sensitive, such as watercolors and textiles, and so light levels are kept low to prevent fading. Also, bulbs that don’t emit ultraviolet are particularly important.

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flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Michael Fryd wrote:

A significant problem is small museums that emphasize low cost over quality light.
You can save money by using low cost LED lighting (both upfront, and in operating costs) rather than lighting that properly presents the work.

A major consideration is art conservation. Some materials are quite light sensitive, such as watercolors and textiles, and so light levels are kept low to prevent fading. Also, bulbs that don’t emit ultraviolet are particularly important.

Yes.   I hadn't considered that.   And that explains the "Do Not Touch" signs as well.

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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flyinglentris
OP flyinglentris Senior Member • Posts: 1,344
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

Are there situations where the display ambient lighting requires a planned color treatment for photographic images to ensure that the color look normal in those conditions?

I don't know. Has anyone come across one? I mean, I assume it would be for a print (I know you're specifically talking about prints) that is not anticipated to move from a particular display area.

Actually, as Mark S. Alben pointed out with the link to Fairchild's Rev 2 book, it has been a topic of research since the early 90s (late 80s), applicable in Color Appearance Models (Refer to MSA's posts). The CIE Illuminants, Tristimulus Color Spaces and so forth just don't address the particulars that Color Appearance Models do. And CAMs are being used today in many applications. However, they are mathematical formulas for treating Imaging Systems and Image Processing, and do not address techniques for corrected display lighting as in museums and galleries.

My first exposure to intentional ambient lighting for image display regarded information about per-Renaissance church and cathedral alter artwork that was intentionally lit to display the artist's true definitions of color (by the artist).

Knowledge about this sort of thing goes way back (Refer to Johannes Itten) and there is no reason to expect that photographic images may not be effected in the same way. In fact, they are, as it is human visual traits at play, not imaging system, per se.

Is that a yes that photographic examples are known to exist, and a yes that they're prints that are not anticipated to move from a particular display area?

Just thought of it, now.   In the Studio and Lighting Technique Forum, it is sometimes discussed how to photograph flat 2D art of all kinds.   If one is to photograph an old master that incorporates simultaneous and metameric color, etc., they are faced with trying to reproduce those effects in the photos.  Often as not, this is not a consideration and reduction of reflections and balancing the light from mono units across the art work takes precedence to the exclusion of consideration for reproducing the original Master's intentional use of colors that might be metameric, simultaneous and frequency spread.  To wit, their carefully taken photos do not capture the true nature of the art that makes it a work of genius due to its early consideration of lighting fundamentals.

So, could it have been done, if the photographer knew enough to consider achieving the results that would truly capture what made that art a work of genius?

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"If you are among those who believe that it has all been done already and nothing new can be achieved, you've murdered your own artistry before ever letting it live. You abort it in its fetal state. There is much that has yet to be spoken in art and composition and it grows with the passage of time. Evolving technologies, world environments and ideologies all drive change in thoughts, passion and expression. There is no way that it can all ever be done already. And therein lies the venue for the creative artist, a venue that is as diverse as the universe is unmapped and unexplored." - Quote from FlyingLentris
~
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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 15,908
Museum lighting

Actually, museum lighting led to some knowledge of the effects of human vision that are addressed in color appearance models.

The idea behind a color appearance model is understanding how color vision changes when not in ordinary conditions. Pretty much all of our cameras and software assume good viewing conditions, where everything is well lit, with a spectrally good light source of a particular white point, and color samples are fairly large and surrounded by neutrals. The standard RGB color models we use all assume this, and we rarely have problems when viewing colors in broad daylight and bright interiors. But we have problems when conditions are far from normal.

Museum curators guessed that artworks would look best in the same kind of  lighting that the artist used to make them. So a plein-air painting would look best in broad sunlight (a color temperature of maybe 5500 kelvin) while a studio painting may look best with lighting with high color temperature approximating skylight (7000 K or higher). But you can’t use bright lighting as that may fade the artworks, so they used dim bulbs. But the results were poor: the dim lighting looked too intensely blue.

As it turns out, as brightness decreases, the range of color temperatures that the eye will perceive as “white” narrows substantially.  If the lighting is as bright or brighter than a well lit office, then you can get away with a wide range of color temperatures which the eye will perceive as white, at least after adaptation. But once you get to a significantly dimmer living room at night, you’ll need much warmer lighting to make things look white. It shouldn’t be too surprising that domestic bulbs are about 2700K while office bulbs are higher, like 5000K.

This phenomenon isn’t explainable with regular color theory, while advanced color appearance models do this and more. As mentioned, standard color theory, found in cameras and software, assumes a fixed, standard viewing condition, while a color appearance model allows for nonstandard viewing conditions.

The CIECAM02 color appearance model is mainly found in computer science grade software. However, it is implemented in Microsoft Windows’ monitor driver, but this isn’t directly accessible by end users. It is also found in the exposure-blending Enfuse software, as well as in RawTherapee. The latter gives you considerable amount of control over it, with the main function of adapting colors for viewing in extremely dark surroundings.

I’ve used both Enfuse and RawTherapee extensively, and CIECAM02 does work, but it is difficult to use well.

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 15,908
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

flyinglentris wrote:

consideration for reproducing the original Master's intentional use of colors that might be metameric, simultaneous and frequency spread.

Good luck figuring out how to do that. That is *way* beyond the state of the art!

Metamerism failure really isn’t addressed. Even advanced color appearance models assume spectrally flat lighting, and assume that cameras see colors as do humans, which they don’t. The old school way of handling this is manual color adjustment in Photoshop.

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Mark Scott Abeln
Mark Scott Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 15,908
Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

flyinglentris wrote:

Mark Scott Abeln wrote:

Michael Fryd wrote:

A significant problem is small museums that emphasize low cost over quality light.
You can save money by using low cost LED lighting (both upfront, and in operating costs) rather than lighting that properly presents the work.

A major consideration is art conservation. Some materials are quite light sensitive, such as watercolors and textiles, and so light levels are kept low to prevent fading. Also, bulbs that don’t emit ultraviolet are particularly important.

Yes. I hadn't considered that.

Actually that’s the most important use for color appearance models. Nearly all digital cameras oversaturate colors. Why? Because bright lighting makes colors look more saturated and this correction is needed to make colors look normal in prints and on dim monitors. For example, the standard calibrated sRGB monitor brightness is merely 1/1000th that of direct sunlight.

And that explains the "Do Not Touch" signs as well.

I’ve got stories about that!

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Michael Fryd
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Re: Intentional Color Corrections Planned for Display in Ambient Light

flyinglentris wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

flyinglentris wrote:

...

Just thought of it, now. In the Studio and Lighting Technique Forum, it is sometimes discussed how to photograph flat 2D art of all kinds. If one is to photograph an old master that incorporates simultaneous and metameric color, etc., they are faced with trying to reproduce those effects in the photos. Often as not, this is not a consideration and reduction of reflections and balancing the light from mono units across the art work takes precedence to the exclusion of consideration for reproducing the original Master's intentional use of colors that might be metameric, simultaneous and frequency spread. To wit, their carefully taken photos do not capture the true nature of the art that makes it a work of genius due to its early consideration of lighting fundamentals.

So, could it have been done, if the photographer knew enough to consider achieving the results that would truly capture what made that art a work of genius?

When photographing artwork, you also need to worry about reflections and surface texture. Imagine a painting that is mostly a matt finish paint, with some metallic silver or metallic gold paint.  Reflections change the appearance of the art, as you view it from different angle. Some parts of the art may be more reflective than others.

Similarly, many painting have texture. An area of the canvas may me a solid color, but texture is being used.

There is always the issue that the color gamut of the reproducing device may not be able to reproduce the color gamut of the original.

Metameric issues is just one of many issues when attempting to reproduce artwork.

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