New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info

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gmarmot
gmarmot Forum Member • Posts: 52
New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info

I just saw this. Perhaps I missed it earlier (?)

Olympus 100-400mm vs Panasonic 100-400mm – The complete comparison

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/micro-four-thirds-lenses/olympus-100-400mm-vs-panasonic-100-400mm/?fbclid=IwAR2mLn8VGrpxoLx5s2G5p3LW57KM5UETQuojp549bHWElWJ6hqXSbBaQDD0#quality

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mount evans
mount evans Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
2

For Olympus to equip the 100-400mm zoom with OIS, but not make that OIS compatible with the IBIS, sounds like quite a gaffe.  The mechanical hardware is already there; the rest is just electronics and software, a problem that had already been solved for two other lenses.

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Danielvr Veteran Member • Posts: 5,396
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
4

For Olympus to equip the 100-400mm zoom with OIS, but not make that OIS compatible with the IBIS, sounds like quite a gaffe.

Not if they have a 150-400mm f4.5 to sell later this year, at maybe four(?) times the price of this one.

I don't approve of it as a consumer, but I think they were smart to save full sync-IS for the Pro model.

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martinhb Regular Member • Posts: 400
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info

mount evans wrote:

For Olympus to equip the 100-400mm zoom with OIS, but not make that OIS compatible with the IBIS, sounds like quite a gaffe. The mechanical hardware is already there; the rest is just electronics and software, a problem that had already been solved for two other lenses.

The new 100-400mm lenses are pre productions models & meanwhile Olympus have released new firmware updates, e.g. :

https://cs.olympus-imaging.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/download/software/firm/e1/#omd

The previews from these pre production models look good, despite lacking the latest firmware.

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Astrotripper Veteran Member • Posts: 8,287
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
2

mount evans wrote:

For Olympus to equip the 100-400mm zoom with OIS, but not make that OIS compatible with the IBIS, sounds like quite a gaffe.

Do you mean the fact it does not support 5-axis Sync-IS? Yes, it sucks. Having that would be amazing for video.

However, it does support operation of IBIS and OIS together for improved performance. It's just not as robust as Sync-IS. Sync-IS fully utilizes 5-axis IBIS and adds the 2-axis correction by the lens on top (so both IBIS and OIS correct yaw and pitch together). Here, OIS corrects yaw and pitch and IBIS corrects the roll.

The interesting question is how much does it improve and on which bodies. I would expect this to be significant for cameras like E-M10, but not necessarily for E-M1 line, whose IBIS can easily handle 400mm.

The mechanical hardware is already there; the rest is just electronics and software, a problem that had already been solved for two other lenses.

I would not be so sure about that. Note how the OIS alone is rated just at 3 stops. That's nothing compared to OIS on 12-100 and 300. So clearly it is not as capable. Maybe just not good enough to work in tandem with a much more precise IBIS?

As for why, I think we all know. Cost cutting.

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Danielvr Veteran Member • Posts: 5,396
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
2

As for why, I think we all know. Cost cutting.

That's just an assumption.

If it is true that this lens is essentially a Sigma design, then the more likely explanation is that Sigma's optical stabilisation isn't fully compatible with Oly's, or not as capable.

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Astrotripper Veteran Member • Posts: 8,287
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info

Danielvr wrote:

As for why, I think we all know. Cost cutting.

That's just an assumption.

If it is true that this lens is essentially a Sigma design, then the more likely explanation is that Sigma's optical stabilisation isn't fully compatible with Oly's, or not as capable.

The fact that the optical formula is partly the same has zero or near zero impact on any other aspect of the lens.

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mount evans
mount evans Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info

Astrotripper wrote:

mount evans wrote:

For Olympus to equip the 100-400mm zoom with OIS, but not make that OIS compatible with the IBIS, sounds like quite a gaffe.

Do you mean the fact it does not support 5-axis Sync-IS? Yes, it sucks. Having that would be amazing for video.

However, it does support operation of IBIS and OIS together for improved performance. It's just not as robust as Sync-IS. Sync-IS fully utilizes 5-axis IBIS and adds the 2-axis correction by the lens on top (so both IBIS and OIS correct yaw and pitch together). Here, OIS corrects yaw and pitch and IBIS corrects the roll.

I have never heard of OIS and IBIS "partially" working together.  Everything I have read made it sound like either the lens IS and the body IS are meant to work together in your camera brand's trademark-named system, or you have to decide which one of them to turn off to prevent them from fighting with each other and making things worse.  I keep reading that their are only two lenses with OIS--the M.Zuiko 12-100mm and the M.Zuiko 300mm--for which Olympus users do not have to make this decision.

But then, until now, those were the only two Olympus lenses with OIS.

So, can you point me to any documentation of this third situation, OIS and IBIS "sort of" working together?

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mount evans
mount evans Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info

Danielvr wrote:

As for why, I think we all know. Cost cutting.

That's just an assumption.

If it is true that this lens is essentially a Sigma design, then the more likely explanation is that Sigma's optical stabilisation isn't fully compatible with Oly's, or not as capable.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a Sigma lens from Sigma than from Olympus?

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Astrotripper Veteran Member • Posts: 8,287
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
3

mount evans wrote:

Astrotripper wrote:

mount evans wrote:

For Olympus to equip the 100-400mm zoom with OIS, but not make that OIS compatible with the IBIS, sounds like quite a gaffe.

Do you mean the fact it does not support 5-axis Sync-IS? Yes, it sucks. Having that would be amazing for video.

However, it does support operation of IBIS and OIS together for improved performance. It's just not as robust as Sync-IS. Sync-IS fully utilizes 5-axis IBIS and adds the 2-axis correction by the lens on top (so both IBIS and OIS correct yaw and pitch together). Here, OIS corrects yaw and pitch and IBIS corrects the roll.

I have never heard of OIS and IBIS "partially" working together.

Me neither. Up until now. I believe this is the first.

Everything I have read made it sound like either the lens IS and the body IS are meant to work together in your camera brand's trademark-named system, or you have to decide which one of them to turn off to prevent them from fighting with each other and making things worse.

Actually, the last scenario is impossible to achieve. If the camera does not support combined OIS+IBIS operation, it will simply not allow both to operate at the same time. I have Panasonic OIS lenses with and without physical IS switch and there's just no way to force both OIS and IBIS to be enabled at the same time.

I keep reading that their are only two lenses with OIS--the M.Zuiko 12-100mm and the M.Zuiko 300mm--for which Olympus users do not have to make this decision.

That is correct. At least for cameras that support Sync IS. From what I remember, on cameras without Sync IS support it worked just like with Panasonic lenses that have physical IS switch. I vaguely remember trying it on my old E-M10 back in the day. But don't quote me on that, it was quite a while ago.

But then, until now, those were the only two Olympus lenses with OIS.

So, can you point me to any documentation of this third situation, OIS and IBIS "sort of" working together?

Sure: http://dl01.olympus-imaging.com/ww/ud2/ENU/0001/1250/index33a.html

Frankly, I find it extremely disappointing how Olympus absolutely failed to put that essential information in their promotional material. People who got the lens for testing early also did not receive this information.

To have to learn about it from release notes on firmware updates is just ridiculous.

The result is predictable and not good for Olympus.

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Danielvr Veteran Member • Posts: 5,396
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
1

If it is true that this lens is essentially a Sigma design, then the more likely explanation is that Sigma's optical stabilisation isn't fully compatible with Oly's, or not as capable.

The fact that the optical formula is partly the same has zero or near zero impact on any other aspect of the lens.

My point is not about the formula, it's about the (supposed) fact that a third party designed and quite possibly manufactured this lens, which could have greatly reduced Olympus' ability to build it to its own standards.

Specifically, I think that Oly decided to go with the off-the-shelf OIS unit that Sigma is using for the C/N/S-mount versions of this lens (whether for financial, technical or timing considerations), and that this sub-optimal sync-IS is the best compromise that was achievable under those circumstances.

Also, this lens is a value proposition. It offers great quality at a comparatively low price. It would make perfect sense to me if Oly is keeping full sync-IS exclusive to its Pro line, so as not to cannibalize their own hi-end sales (in particular those of the upcoming no holds barred 150-400 f4.5). So, even if it might have been technically possible for Oly to add full sync-IS, I don't think they were motivated to do so -- and good for them.

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MalvinF Regular Member • Posts: 104
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info

Gordon Laing’s review https://youtu.be/cxXfO1uPVTA suggests the two stabilisation systems do work together to give superior performance at times, but also there is evidence they do also conflict at other times, around 8 minutes in.

SHood Veteran Member • Posts: 5,624
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
1

MalvinF wrote:

Gordon Laing’s review https://youtu.be/cxXfO1uPVTA suggests the two stabilisation systems do work together to give superior performance at times, but also there is evidence they do also conflict at other times, around 8 minutes in.

Gordon tested with the E-M1ii which would not have had the latest firmware update at the time of the review. I think this was a big miss for Olympus from a marketing perspective. I believe all reviewers had to return their 100-400 before announcement day so it could be a while before the new firmware gets reviewed with the 100-400.

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Astrotripper Veteran Member • Posts: 8,287
Re: New (?) Olympus vs Panasonic 100-400 info
1

Danielvr wrote:

If it is true that this lens is essentially a Sigma design, then the more likely explanation is that Sigma's optical stabilisation isn't fully compatible with Oly's, or not as capable.

The fact that the optical formula is partly the same has zero or near zero impact on any other aspect of the lens.

My point is not about the formula, it's about the (supposed) fact that a third party designed and quite possibly manufactured this lens, which could have greatly reduced Olympus' ability to build it to its own standards.

It did not prevent them from redesigning the focusing group to achieve their goal (faster focusing and shorter minimal focusing distance). So why would IS module be any different?

I mean, sure, they could use an off the shelf part.

Specifically, I think that Oly decided to go with the off-the-shelf OIS unit that Sigma is using for the C/N/S-mount versions of this lens (whether for financial, technical or timing considerations),

Maybe, but then why would it be rated lower than Sigma's solution?

and that this sub-optimal sync-IS is the best compromise that was achievable under those circumstances.

Maybe. Or maybe it was simply cheaper to make it that way. And keeping Sync IS as an exclusive feature for the PRO version.

Or maybe there's some inherent limitation in the Sigma's design that simply made it impossible or impractical to use the kind of IS module that would enable Sync-IS.

Also, this lens is a value proposition. It offers great quality at a comparatively low price. It would make perfect sense to me if Oly is keeping full sync-IS exclusive to its Pro line, so as not to cannibalize their own hi-end sales (in particular those of the upcoming no holds barred 150-400 f4.5). So, even if it might have been technically possible for Oly to add full sync-IS, I don't think they were motivated to do so -- and good for them.

Yeah, I'm sure this was a consideration as well.

Either way, I'm sure it was cheaper to do it the way they did. And getting that OIS+IBIS is still better than having just one of those.

Could have been worse. They could have removed IS altogether, like Pentax does to their Tamron based lenses.

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