HiFi-High Fidelity in Photography

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
57even Forum Pro • Posts: 14,804
Re: Analog rules !
5

Rambow wrote:

57even wrote:

Rambow wrote:

Don't need high fidelity as long as you understand... Analog sound and photos are the best! The machines also tend to last forever.

It's the reason this puppy will never die

Whatever dude. Describing a cassette player as 'hi-fi' was always a stretch at the best of times.

Do you even read? The title was "Analog rules" and you literally quoted me saying "don't need high fidelity".

I said analog(sound, image) is the best, not anything else.

Let me rephrase my last sentence too, so that maybe this time you'd understand:

You know what rules? This

1990 TOTL Onkyo Integra TA-2760 3 head 3 motor cassette deck. Built to outlive the haters.

You do talk a lot of nonsense.

-- hide signature --

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

 57even's gear list:57even's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2
Currantos Senior Member • Posts: 1,298
The blight
3

I am adding this topic to the other group of "blighted" discussions

1. Microcontrast.

2. Rate this bokeh

3. Photography is art/not art

4. Lenses are too sharp/clinical, lens "rendering"

5. Sharpness is important/not important

Feel free to add more.

Down the rabbit hole we go....

Currantos Senior Member • Posts: 1,298
More seriously
1

Although I am by no means knowledgeable in hi-fi audio I know for a fact they too "distort" sound and modify frequencies. The human auditory system is very imperfect, so by electronically altering the sound certain frequencies can be brought out more than what you would actually hear. It almost sounds "SO REAL" because it is "better than real" actually and is not fully real. I think the idea that they just want "true to life" is not true. It's like an image that is selectively sharpened where you can "see every leaf on a tree", it's "so real" because it is actually made better than real by technology. Or when the colors are just 'popping off the page', they were saturated in post a bit.

All that, and more of course. Humans don't actually want another reality to look at, we already have this one. We want to represent that reality but 'enhance' it and feel that is "reality" but feel something different at the same time.

Think of biographies? Do they just go on dryly describing the events of a person's life in a telephone book like accuracy to paint as real a possible picture of that person's life? No, they use fictional writing techniques to represent true life events.

No representation of reality is real, that would be boring. Look in the mirror. We don't even see ourselves the way we are, look at a picture of yourself versus a reflection in the mirror, it's like two different people. Nothing is real.

Barry Twycross Veteran Member • Posts: 3,305
Re: HiFi-High Fidelity in Photography
1

DavidP03 wrote:

Off topic I know, I wonder how many know the meaning of ‘wifi’ without using google of course

I do for one.

And I always thought it was pretty silly.

 Barry Twycross's gear list:Barry Twycross's gear list
Panasonic GX850 Fujifilm GFX 50R Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Leica Nocticron 42.5mm Fujifilm GF 110mm F2 +9 more
stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 24,550
What is reality?
1

AutoFokus wrote:

High fidelity (often shortened to hi-fi or HiFi) is a term used by listeners, audiophiles and home audio enthusiasts to refer to high-quality reproduction of sound.

(by Wikipedia)

HiFi in Photography: so this would mean in photography that the picture closely resembles reality.

I don't think that's actually the case anymore. "Reality" is a very nebulous concept in audio. I don't think Hi Fi is about natural reproduction, it's about faithful reproduction of what is on the medium. But what gets put on the medium (vinyl, CD, etc.) has gone through quite a bit of processing. It might sound "real" or it might sound "effected". But it is generally a studio production and even if live, it's gone thorough a number of processing steps to bring out its best and a lot of that involves unnatural/electronic effects that sound anything but natural but they sound really good.

But nowadays almost all pictures are;

- corrected / distorted / altered... and this is far away from reality.

and so, today it is better to master PhotoShop than know how to make good pictures with good knowledge of Photo tehnology.

What do you think ?

I think if you listen to modern music, it's all very processed and yet, some of the very processed music sounds really great.

Original Capture: in both cases, the "original capture" is often bland and needs some work to be its best. Music needs to be mixed, eq'd and effects added to make it sound good. There is no "natural". Images need to have levels adjusted and even effects added before they look good. We start by making a 2D representation of a 3D space, so by very definition, we are not doing something natural in either case.

Natural - most music isn't live so "natural" is an interesting notion. Most of it originates in a studio, one instrument at a time. Most of the effects like compression and reverb can sound really great but don't come from anything "natural". You can apply cathedral reverb electronically to audio without ever being in one. Spring reverb isn't natural at all nor does it sound like anything in nature. But it sounds good.

 stevo23's gear list:stevo23's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 60mm F2.4 R Macro Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R +3 more
Graham Meale
Graham Meale Veteran Member • Posts: 3,113
Re: HiFi-High Fidelity in Photography
2

Supisiche wrote:

"The word tree is not the tree."

Too deep for me.

-- hide signature --
 Graham Meale's gear list:Graham Meale's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 50mm F1.8 II Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM +7 more
The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 24,241
Re: Analog rules !
1

Rambow wrote:

57even wrote:

Rambow wrote:

Don't need high fidelity as long as you understand... Analog sound and photos are the best! The machines also tend to last forever.

It's the reason this puppy will never die

Whatever dude. Describing a cassette player as 'hi-fi' was always a stretch at the best of times.

Do you even read? The title was "Analog rules" and you literally quoted me saying "don't need high fidelity".

I said analog(sound, image) is the best, not anything else.

Let me rephrase my last sentence too, so that maybe this time you'd understand:

You know what rules? This

1990 TOTL Onkyo Integra TA-2760 3 head 3 motor cassette deck. Built to outlive the haters.

Nice deck.  I used to have a Nak CR7A....never did foot the bill for the Dragon.  For me though, the LP is my main source.  Sota Star Sapphire, SME V tonearm and Dynavector MC cartridge.  That said...I still believe in a good digital source as well....Accuphase DP 560 is a pleasure for me.

 The Davinator's gear list:The Davinator's gear list
Canon EOS D30 Canon EOS 10D Nikon D2X Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon Z7 +16 more
Klaus dk
Klaus dk Veteran Member • Posts: 6,949
The Treachery Of Images

Graham Meale wrote:

Supisiche wrote:

"The word tree is not the tree."

Too deep for me.

Wikipedia reference:

The Treachery Of Images

 Klaus dk's gear list:Klaus dk's gear list
Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS R Canon EF 135mm F2.8 SF Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM +15 more
Kelpie Regular Member • Posts: 436
Hear! Hear! (Nt)

No text.

 Kelpie's gear list:Kelpie's gear list
Canon PowerShot G3 Nikon D300 Olympus E-1 Olympus E-30 Olympus OM-D E-M5 +18 more
jayrandomer
jayrandomer Senior Member • Posts: 1,053
You've got the wrong analogy
1

AutoFokus wrote:

High fidelity (often shortened to hi-fi or HiFi) is a term used by listeners, audiophiles and home audio enthusiasts to refer to high-quality reproduction of sound.

(by Wikipedia)

HiFi in Photography: so this would mean in photography that the picture closely resembles reality.

But nowadays almost all pictures are;

- corrected / distorted / altered... and this is far away from reality.

and so, today it is better to master PhotoShop than know how to make good pictures with good knowledge of Photo tehnology.

What do you think ?

Hi-Fi is about the reproduction of music in the home.  Photography is about capturing images.  A good Hi-Fi system corresponds pretty directly to a well-calibrated, wide-gamut monitor. Perhaps you could extend the analogy to prints.

With the exception of some pared-down productions, audio recording involves much more sophisticated processing than most photography.  It's also a far less popular activity, typically restricted to professionals and a subset of dedicated amateurs.  Pretty much everyone takes photographs.

 jayrandomer's gear list:jayrandomer's gear list
Canon EOS 550D Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM +4 more
Gerry Siegel
Gerry Siegel Veteran Member • Posts: 3,079
The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .
2

I listen to music.  I take pictures. I have a natural love of both.  What is similar?

-  snobbery as to the quality of the  gear itself.  -  constant pursuit of an elusive goal.

(  headphones with the rare earth cones blah blah.  Lenses with the fluorite elements and the red dot camera.)     No judgment on what one drives or shoots, but some do make such judgment.  It is what it is.

 Gerry Siegel's gear list:Gerry Siegel's gear list
Panasonic ZS100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 +4 more
bill winslow hansen Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .
1

Gerry Siegel wrote:

I listen to music. I take pictures. I have a natural love of both. What is similar?

- snobbery as to the quality of the gear itself. - constant pursuit of an elusive goal.

( headphones with the rare earth cones blah blah. Lenses with the fluorite elements and the red dot camera.) No judgment on what one drives or shoots, but some do make such judgment. It is what it is.

Elitism and nothing more than that .

 bill winslow hansen's gear list:bill winslow hansen's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 300D Canon EOS 400D Sony a5000 Sony a7 II +8 more
Gerry Siegel
Gerry Siegel Veteran Member • Posts: 3,079
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .
1

bill winslow hansen wrote:

Gerry Siegel wrote:

I listen to music. I take pictures. I have a natural love of both. What is similar?

- snobbery as to the quality of the gear itself. - constant pursuit of an elusive goal.

( headphones with the rare earth cones blah blah. Lenses with the fluorite elements and the red dot camera.) No judgment on what one drives or shoots, but some do make such judgment. It is what it is.

Elitism and nothing more than that .

I understand it better. Now.

When I was a wee teen shelving books at Copley library, officious supervisor asked me what I shot with back then. A half frame no name well scuffed that I bought at a pawn shop.

Hmm , "well I shoot with Linhof." Ach du lieber. Himmelherrgottkreuzdonnerwetter , we bow reverently. Funny looking back.

And yet, and yet, bigger is still better- what do you know?.

 Gerry Siegel's gear list:Gerry Siegel's gear list
Panasonic ZS100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 +4 more
bill winslow hansen Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .

Gerry Siegel wrote:

bill winslow hansen wrote:

Gerry Siegel wrote:

I listen to music. I take pictures. I have a natural love of both. What is similar?

- snobbery as to the quality of the gear itself. - constant pursuit of an elusive goal.

( headphones with the rare earth cones blah blah. Lenses with the fluorite elements and the red dot camera.) No judgment on what one drives or shoots, but some do make such judgment. It is what it is.

Elitism and nothing more than that .

I understand it better. Now.

When I was a wee teen shelving books at Copley library, officious supervisor asked me what I shot with back then. A half frame no name well scuffed that I bought at a pawn shop.

Hmm , "well I shoot with Linhof." Ach du lieber. Himmelherrgottkreuzdonnerwetter , we bow reverently. Funny looking back.

And yet, and yet, bigger is still better- what do you know?.

I’ve heard all kinds of stuff.

I’ll be out shooting with a cheap camera with a adapted thrift store lens .

Someone will inevitably poo poo it .

I couldn’t be assed .

Some people clean their lenses more than they click the shutter .

Some people write down opinions more than they click .

 bill winslow hansen's gear list:bill winslow hansen's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 300D Canon EOS 400D Sony a5000 Sony a7 II +8 more
57even Forum Pro • Posts: 14,804
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .
2

bill winslow hansen wrote:

Gerry Siegel wrote:

bill winslow hansen wrote:

Gerry Siegel wrote:

I listen to music. I take pictures. I have a natural love of both. What is similar?

- snobbery as to the quality of the gear itself. - constant pursuit of an elusive goal.

( headphones with the rare earth cones blah blah. Lenses with the fluorite elements and the red dot camera.) No judgment on what one drives or shoots, but some do make such judgment. It is what it is.

Elitism and nothing more than that .

I understand it better. Now.

When I was a wee teen shelving books at Copley library, officious supervisor asked me what I shot with back then. A half frame no name well scuffed that I bought at a pawn shop.

Hmm , "well I shoot with Linhof." Ach du lieber. Himmelherrgottkreuzdonnerwetter , we bow reverently. Funny looking back.

And yet, and yet, bigger is still better- what do you know?.

I’ve heard all kinds of stuff.

I’ll be out shooting with a cheap camera with a adapted thrift store lens .

Someone will inevitably poo poo it .

I couldn’t be assed .

Some people clean their lenses more than they click the shutter .

Some people write down opinions more than they click .

Reminds me of the first camera club I attended at 19, with a new Canon AE1 which I had worked an entire summer job to pay for. They seemed far to busy shooting still life shots to show off their Leica and Hasselblad lenses than take picture of anything interesting.

A very old friend of mine is  sound engineer in a recording studio. He listens to music on his iPhone, because he finds a good sound system distracting. All he can hear are the screw ups made by the recording studio.

And, as he pointed out, live music is much worse acoustically, but sounds better simply because it has all the dynamics of the musicians playing together and improvising, mistakes and all.

He actually has a degree in music and plays session in his spare time, but he makes far more steady money behind the desk than in front of the mike.

-- hide signature --

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

 57even's gear list:57even's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2
stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 24,550
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .

Gerry Siegel wrote:

bill winslow hansen wrote:

Gerry Siegel wrote:

I listen to music. I take pictures. I have a natural love of both. What is similar?

- snobbery as to the quality of the gear itself. - constant pursuit of an elusive goal.

( headphones with the rare earth cones blah blah. Lenses with the fluorite elements and the red dot camera.) No judgment on what one drives or shoots, but some do make such judgment. It is what it is.

Elitism and nothing more than that .

I understand it better. Now.

When I was a wee teen shelving books at Copley library

Copley Ohio?

 stevo23's gear list:stevo23's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 60mm F2.4 R Macro Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R +3 more
Gerry Siegel
Gerry Siegel Veteran Member • Posts: 3,079
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .
1

Not Ohio.  I am from Beantown. Or was.

Copley Square . Boston central library in Copley Square.  Named after John Singleton Copley a renowned painter whose works are displayed prominently.

 Gerry Siegel's gear list:Gerry Siegel's gear list
Panasonic ZS100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 +4 more
bill winslow hansen Regular Member • Posts: 114
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .

I’ve learned to ignore the people who talk more than they do.

I’ve been involved in every element of music production for a long time now,

Photography is my second passion.

I just have very little respect or interest in the grinding of minutia and mystical things.

I’m not doing either to impress anyone .

 bill winslow hansen's gear list:bill winslow hansen's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 300D Canon EOS 400D Sony a5000 Sony a7 II +8 more
TRIODEROB
TRIODEROB Veteran Member • Posts: 4,549
Re: The not out of bounds analogy. There is a connection .

I spent 2 hours listening to master reel to reel tapes on these speakers

nobody can tell me about high fidelity

why do you think folks call me Trioderob ?

I dont run no pentodes

jayrandomer
jayrandomer Senior Member • Posts: 1,053
Gear snobbery isn’t limited to just stereos and cameras

Gerry Siegel wrote:

I listen to music. I take pictures. I have a natural love of both. What is similar?

- snobbery as to the quality of the gear itself. - constant pursuit of an elusive goal.

( headphones with the rare earth cones blah blah. Lenses with the fluorite elements and the red dot camera.) No judgment on what one drives or shoots, but some do make such judgment. It is what it is.

nearly everything that is made has a subcultural that is very discriminating in its tastes  The same case could be made for wines, or guns, or knives, or cars, or musical instruments, or woodworking tools, or televisions, or typewriters, or computers, or really anything.

Ideally, cameras are used to make something. They are tools.  They are used to create something. Stereos are not tools. At least not in the creative sense. They are used to reproduce something creative someone else has made.  That’s what I was getting at.

Of course, if your main concern is that people are more interested in the object itself than its usefulness as a tool, I understand the connection better.

 jayrandomer's gear list:jayrandomer's gear list
Canon EOS 550D Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM +4 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads