Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test

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Glen Barrington
Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 21,112
Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test
3

TLDR: Canon still the high ISO champ, but the dynamic range results are surprising. Not a clear overall winner in my eyes. It's complicated. Both are 2019 releases.

Rob Trek's comparison

I'd love to see a comparison between the E-M5 III and the R5 or R6, I would think they have a better sensor in it.

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justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 9,568
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test

Apparently the RP has the same sensor as the 2017 6D Mark II. Both are listed as 26.2MP.

C Sean Senior Member • Posts: 2,645
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test

It’s not surprisingly at all. I’m sure people will correct me where I went wrong.

The original Canon 6D was an amazing camera at the time, good value for money and people had high expectations for the successor. However, when the 6D2 came out, people weren’t happy with it crippled video features and poor dynamic range. The older Nikon D750 had superior dynamic range and the few months later the 5D4 came out with better dynamic range than the 6D2.

The reality is the Canon 6D2 should had been an excellent value for money hybrid Full Frame camera like Sony was able to do with the A73. I saw one video of a landscape photographer who own a 6D ended up getting the 5D4 instead of the 6D2 due to the dynamic range issue.

The RP is base on the 6D2 to keep the cost down, use the same sensor and have roughly the same dynamic range. The Em5.3 is a reskinned three year old Em1.2. Both cameras use out of date sensors and processors. However the fact my Gh5 has roughly the same dynamic range as the Canon 6D2 say everything you need to know.

Glen Barrington
OP Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 21,112
Even so, in this price range . . .
1

The choice between the two is not clear-cut. What else is available in this price range? Maybe what is needed, is a comprehensive and clear price performance study of cameras in the same price category.

For me, I rarely shoot at ISO levels above 1000, so I value DR over noise control.  These types of comparisons are informative for those on a firm budget.

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NCV
NCV Forum Pro • Posts: 11,190
Picking Cherries
4

Here we are again at the orchard picking cherries

Compare the R5 and the Z7 with the EM5iii and the picture is not quite so rosy.

Compare the 2012 EM5i with the EM5iii and we see nothing has improved in 8 years on the DR front.

In fact I never bothered to upgrade and update my EM5i because what followed was just more repackaging with some gimmicks thrown in. Raw image quality remained much the same.

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threw the lens
threw the lens Senior Member • Posts: 2,760
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test
1

All comparing an E-M5 to old Canon FF cameras proves is how Canon were still trying to pass off outdated tech on the consumer.

If anybody wanted up to date dynamic range, Canon were not the company to go to for the last 13 years.

On the other hand, you could buy a camera with a tiny Sony sensor in like any of the E-M5 models, or you could buy a camera with a great big Sony sensor in it instead and leave Canon trailing way behind in dynamic range.

With the E-M5 you're screwed for high iso compared to Canon, or dynamic range with any other manufacturer of any bigger sensor.

Neither possibility makes m4/3 more interesting.

The Canon R5 however - now that is interesting. Try measuring an E-M5 up to that and report back.

onlyfreeman
onlyfreeman Senior Member • Posts: 2,287
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test
1

C Sean wrote:

The Em5.3 is a reskinned three year old Em1.2. Both cameras use out of date sensors

The E-M5.3 doesn't have an an out-of-date sensor, assuming I understand correctly what that means. It's pretty much as good as modern technology allows, as far as I know, I'm not sure what could even be improved in this sensor without increasing cost massively?

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onlyfreeman
onlyfreeman Senior Member • Posts: 2,287
Re: Picking Cherries
8

I don't even understand your point, there is one other example:

The a7R has basically the same DR and whatever as the a7R IV (6 years later), so does that mean one should not bother upgrading from the a7R? I'm sure there are many more examples, this is just one.

Sensors have been really good for a while now, there will only be minor improvements unless there's some breakthrough technology. So does that mean upgrades are pointless because image quality is basically the same? I guess for some people that will be the case.

Personally I want better AF, ergonomics, lens selection, durability, innovative features etc.

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Glen Barrington
OP Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 21,112
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test
1

threw the lens wrote:

All comparing an E-M5 to old Canon FF cameras proves is how Canon were still trying to pass off outdated tech on the consumer.

If anybody wanted up to date dynamic range, Canon were not the company to go to for the last 13 years.

On the other hand, you could buy a camera with a tiny Sony sensor in like any of the E-M5 models, or you could buy a camera with a great big Sony sensor in it instead and leave Canon trailing way behind in dynamic range.

With the E-M5 you're screwed for high iso compared to Canon, or dynamic range with any other manufacturer of any bigger sensor.

Neither possibility makes m4/3 more interesting.

The Canon R5 however - now that is interesting. Try measuring an E-M5 up to that and report back.

You are missing the point.  And I wonder if it is a purposeful lack of understanding on your part.  The R5 is, what, $5000 US list price with the 24-105 lens?  The E-M5 III and the Canon RP (BOTH released in 2019 - They are CURRENT models) are in the $1400 price range with roughly equivalent lenses.

Do you expect enthusiast-grade camera/lens combinations of one company to match the top end combinations of another company?  Do you expect the RP to be "as good" as R5?  If you do, then you aren't thinking logically.

What sort of jingoistic state of mind is required to not be able to accept that two cameras targeting the same market might emphasize different features such as noise and dynamic range to try and differentiat themselves from each other?  It is these differentiations that make choosing between the cameras 'complicated'.

Stepping in after the fact, and claiming that neither are the equal of a camera costing twice as much, seems just plain illogical and, well, unfair to either camera.

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 9,676
Re: Picking Cherries
1

onlyfreeman wrote:

I don't even understand your point, there is one other example:

The a7R has basically the same DR and whatever as the a7R IV (6 years later), so does that mean one should not bother upgrading from the a7R? I'm sure there are many more examples, this is just one.

Sensors have been really good for a while now, there will only be minor improvements unless there's some breakthrough technology. So does that mean upgrades are pointless because image quality is basically the same? I guess for some people that will be the case.

Personally I want better AF, ergonomics, lens selection, durability, innovative features etc.

Excellent points.

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Donald B
Donald B Forum Pro • Posts: 17,118
show us some images

You have all lost the plot. show us some images in the middle of the day taken with both cameras. These graphs and charts are all just a con my marketing companies. There is no chance in the world a sensor 1/4 size can come even close. Video ? go shoot some video and you will fall off your chair at the difference between sensor size.

Don

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 9,676
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test
1

Glen Barrington wrote:

TLDR: Canon still the high ISO champ, but the dynamic range results are surprising. Not a clear overall winner in my eyes. It's complicated. Both are 2019 releases.

Rob Trek's comparison

IMHO it basically says the same as this:

cheers

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 9,676
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test

Glen Barrington wrote:

threw the lens wrote:

All comparing an E-M5 to old Canon FF cameras proves is how Canon were still trying to pass off outdated tech on the consumer.

If anybody wanted up to date dynamic range, Canon were not the company to go to for the last 13 years.

On the other hand, you could buy a camera with a tiny Sony sensor in like any of the E-M5 models, or you could buy a camera with a great big Sony sensor in it instead and leave Canon trailing way behind in dynamic range.

With the E-M5 you're screwed for high iso compared to Canon, or dynamic range with any other manufacturer of any bigger sensor.

Neither possibility makes m4/3 more interesting.

The Canon R5 however - now that is interesting. Try measuring an E-M5 up to that and report back.

You are missing the point. And I wonder if it is a purposeful lack of understanding on your part. The R5 is, what, $5000 US list price with the 24-105 lens? The E-M5 III and the Canon RP (BOTH released in 2019 - They are CURRENT models) are in the $1400 price range with roughly equivalent lenses.

Do you expect enthusiast-grade camera/lens combinations of one company to match the top end combinations of another company? Do you expect the RP to be "as good" as R5? If you do, then you aren't thinking logically.

What sort of jingoistic state of mind is required to not be able to accept that two cameras targeting the same market might emphasize different features such as noise and dynamic range to try and differentiat themselves from each other? It is these differentiations that make choosing between the cameras 'complicated'.

Stepping in after the fact, and claiming that neither are the equal of a camera costing twice as much, seems just plain illogical and, well, unfair to either camera.

But didn't you actually ask for the R5 sensor to be compared to the E-M5III, in your OP?

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zxaar Veteran Member • Posts: 4,458
Re: Picking Cherries
1

TN Args wrote:

onlyfreeman wrote:

I don't even understand your point, there is one other example:

The a7R has basically the same DR and whatever as the a7R IV (6 years later), so does that mean one should not bother upgrading from the a7R? I'm sure there are many more examples, this is just one.

Sensors have been really good for a while now, there will only be minor improvements unless there's some breakthrough technology. So does that mean upgrades are pointless because image quality is basically the same? I guess for some people that will be the case.

Personally I want better AF, ergonomics, lens selection, durability, innovative features etc.

Excellent points.

Yaa but the excellent point misses that there is resolution difference between the two version of A7r.  With same DR and higher resolution is always update path.

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rochester21 Senior Member • Posts: 1,212
Re: Picking Cherries
1

onlyfreeman wrote:

Sensors have been really good for a while now, there will only be minor improvements unless there's some breakthrough technology. So does that mean upgrades are pointless because image quality is basically the same? I guess for some people that will be the case.

Personally I want better AF, ergonomics, lens selection, durability, innovative features etc.

This man is right. Makes perfect sense. What people don't understand is that sensor development is very difficult, very few companies can afford to pour so much money into R&D in order to come up with a new one ever 12 months.

Of course sensors are being reused and reworked in order to offer small gains here and there, so what's the problem?

Cameras today are as good as it gets. My only gripe is the cost of quality optics and the low quality of kit lens. But i get it, that's the money maker.

For amateurs, cameras like sony's rx line and basically all m4/3 gear is more than enough to satisfy a lifetime of hobby photography.

I am not ashame to say this, i use a 8 year old sony rx100 and not only i am happy with iso 1600-3200 performance and AF speed and precision, but i am still learning to master the camera. The camera is so good it made me sloppy.

57even Forum Pro • Posts: 14,739
Re: show us some images
1

Donald B wrote:

You have all lost the plot. show us some images in the middle of the day taken with both cameras. These graphs and charts are all just a con my marketing companies.

The charts are produced independently by Bill Claff, not by manufacturers. I have never seen a chart for DR from any manufacturer.

There is no chance in the world a sensor 1/4 size can come even close. Video ? go shoot some video and you will fall off your chair at the difference between sensor size.

The technology employed by the sensor is at least as important as its size. Canon's previous gen sensors didn't use low noise on-chip ADCs, hence the high read noise in the shadows.

The R5 and R6 now use the same tech that Sony introduced in 2010, so the DR is a lot better. Comparable to Sony sensors.

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Donald B
Donald B Forum Pro • Posts: 17,118
Re: show us some images
3

57even wrote:

Donald B wrote:

You have all lost the plot. show us some images in the middle of the day taken with both cameras. These graphs and charts are all just a con my marketing companies.

The charts are produced independently by Bill Claff, not by manufacturers. I have never seen a chart for DR from any manufacturer.

There is no chance in the world a sensor 1/4 size can come even close. Video ? go shoot some video and you will fall off your chair at the difference between sensor size.

The technology employed by the sensor is at least as important as its size. Canon's previous gen sensors didn't use low noise on-chip ADCs, hence the high read noise in the shadows.

The R5 and R6 now use the same tech that Sony introduced in 2010, so the DR is a lot better. Comparable to Sony sensors.

The problem Im seeing with the DR tests is that you never see whats in the middle only the extremes based on guessing noise quality, I would like to see actual real life shadowed colour reproduction scales ,that will sort out these desktop tests graphs. These test sites are as bad as audio tests on the net. i bought my daughter a really nice fender acoustic guitar amp during the week. while i was in the shop the sales person said look this one its much better than the fender, i said plug a mic and guitar in and prove it, well he did and the fender amp absolutely was so far ahead in audio quality it wasnt even close. these sales and marketing people have no idea.

Don

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jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 5,610
Any Fruit ...
1

NCV wrote:

Here we are again at the orchard picking cherries

Compare the R5 and the Z7 with the EM5iii and the picture is not quite so rosy.

Compare the 2012 EM5i with the EM5iii and we see nothing has improved in 8 years on the DR front.

In fact I never bothered to upgrade and update my EM5i because what followed was just more repackaging with some gimmicks thrown in. Raw image quality remained much the same.

Any Fruit will do really. I own an RP and while I don't have an EM5 III I have a G9 and GX9 so I know what a 20 MP m43 camera can do. Any small DR advantage the EM5 III may have (and only at low ISO) is more than made up for in real world usage with the much better ISO performance and overall better IQ of the RP. The RP actually has better DR than the EM5 III as ISO increases. So really any FF fruit (and admittedly the RP is at the bottom of the FF fruit basket) still tastes better than the EM5 III or similar m43 camera.

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Jonathan

Glen Barrington
OP Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 21,112
Re: Surprising Canon EOS RP vs Olympus E-M5 III comparison test

TN Args wrote:

Glen Barrington wrote:

threw the lens wrote:

All comparing an E-M5 to old Canon FF cameras proves is how Canon were still trying to pass off outdated tech on the consumer.

If anybody wanted up to date dynamic range, Canon were not the company to go to for the last 13 years.

On the other hand, you could buy a camera with a tiny Sony sensor in like any of the E-M5 models, or you could buy a camera with a great big Sony sensor in it instead and leave Canon trailing way behind in dynamic range.

With the E-M5 you're screwed for high iso compared to Canon, or dynamic range with any other manufacturer of any bigger sensor.

Neither possibility makes m4/3 more interesting.

The Canon R5 however - now that is interesting. Try measuring an E-M5 up to that and report back.

You are missing the point. And I wonder if it is a purposeful lack of understanding on your part. The R5 is, what, $5000 US list price with the 24-105 lens? The E-M5 III and the Canon RP (BOTH released in 2019 - They are CURRENT models) are in the $1400 price range with roughly equivalent lenses.

Do you expect enthusiast-grade camera/lens combinations of one company to match the top end combinations of another company? Do you expect the RP to be "as good" as R5? If you do, then you aren't thinking logically.

What sort of jingoistic state of mind is required to not be able to accept that two cameras targeting the same market might emphasize different features such as noise and dynamic range to try and differentiat themselves from each other? It is these differentiations that make choosing between the cameras 'complicated'.

Stepping in after the fact, and claiming that neither are the equal of a camera costing twice as much, seems just plain illogical and, well, unfair to either camera.

But didn't you actually ask for the R5 sensor to be compared to the E-M5III, in your OP?

Yes I did, but it was more from the curiosity of how much better the R5 may or may not be over the two cameras in question.  It wasn't an attempt to denigrate either the RP or the E-M5 III.

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Glen Barrington
OP Glen Barrington Forum Pro • Posts: 21,112
Re: show us some images
1

Donald B wrote:

You have all lost the plot. show us some images in the middle of the day taken with both cameras. These graphs and charts are all just a con my marketing companies. There is no chance in the world a sensor 1/4 size can come even close. Video ? go shoot some video and you will fall off your chair at the difference between sensor size.

Don

You'll have to ask Rob Trek, not me.  He is the one that made the comparisons, and has access to both questions.

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