I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

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JT26 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,041
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2
1

I think if your honest it’s because you just want another Leica 😬 arguably there will be more ‘options’ with a Nikon than a Leica...

Foskito
Foskito Regular Member • Posts: 401
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

JT26 wrote:

I think if your honest it’s because you just want another Leica 😬 arguably there will be more ‘options’ with a Nikon than a Leica...

A top of the line camera from Nikon, Canon or Sony will give any Leica a run for its money at a much lower cost, in fact new Nikon Z or Canon L-RF lenses are amazing and nothing shy of Leica $5000+ lenses.

Few have the guts to admit they buy Leica because of pure and simple lust and GAS, they always try to find technical arguments to justify their spending. I bought my M8 and later my M9P just because I like them, and I enjoy the rangefinder system, that's it.

My pics are as good or as bad as my skills allowed, so I don't blame any of my cameras for that.

 Foskito's gear list:Foskito's gear list
Leica M9-P Leica M8 Sony a7R II Fujifilm X-T3 Canon EOS 5D +11 more
LensWizard
LensWizard Senior Member • Posts: 1,369
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2
1

Foskito wrote:

JT26 wrote:

I think if your honest it’s because you just want another Leica 😬 arguably there will be more ‘options’ with a Nikon than a Leica...

A top of the line camera from Nikon, Canon or Sony will give any Leica a run for its money at a much lower cost, in fact new Nikon Z or Canon L-RF lenses are amazing and nothing shy of Leica $5000+ lenses.

Few have the guts to admit they buy Leica because of pure and simple lust and GAS, they always try to find technical arguments to justify their spending. I bought my M8 and later my M9P just because I like them, and I enjoy the rangefinder system, that's it.

My pics are as good or as bad as my skills allowed, so I don't blame any of my cameras for that.

Yes you are correct and exactly why I have bought both Leica Noctilux "just because and both still never unboxed"

-- hide signature --

Canon XLH1 Video, Profoto AcuteR2400, Eizo 27Inch CG277 Monitor, MSI GT80S Laptop, MSI Vortex G-65 Desktop, Wimberly Mk2 Head, Gitzo 5540LS Tripods (2), Arca Swiss Monoball Head, Macbook Pro 15inch Retna Display,Arca Swiss C1 Cube Head, Apple Mac Pro (6) Core 3.5GHZ Dual AMD700's

 LensWizard's gear list:LensWizard's gear list
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David V
OP David V Senior Member • Posts: 1,219
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

LensWizard wrote:

Foskito wrote:

JT26 wrote:

I think if your honest it’s because you just want another Leica 😬 arguably there will be more ‘options’ with a Nikon than a Leica...

A top of the line camera from Nikon, Canon or Sony will give any Leica a run for its money at a much lower cost, in fact new Nikon Z or Canon L-RF lenses are amazing and nothing shy of Leica $5000+ lenses.

Few have the guts to admit they buy Leica because of pure and simple lust and GAS, they always try to find technical arguments to justify their spending. I bought my M8 and later my M9P just because I like them, and I enjoy the rangefinder system, that's it.

My pics are as good or as bad as my skills allowed, so I don't blame any of my cameras for that.

Yes you are correct and exactly why I have bought both Leica Noctilux "just because and both still never unboxed"

LOL!  $30K in Leica glass sitting around in the box?  Let me know if you need help with that. 

 David V's gear list:David V's gear list
Leica Q2 Fujifilm X100V Leica SL2 Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35mm F2 ASPH Leica SL 24-90mm F2.8-4
Foskito
Foskito Regular Member • Posts: 401
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

LensWizard wrote:

Foskito wrote:

JT26 wrote:

I think if your honest it’s because you just want another Leica 😬 arguably there will be more ‘options’ with a Nikon than a Leica...

A top of the line camera from Nikon, Canon or Sony will give any Leica a run for its money at a much lower cost, in fact new Nikon Z or Canon L-RF lenses are amazing and nothing shy of Leica $5000+ lenses.

Few have the guts to admit they buy Leica because of pure and simple lust and GAS, they always try to find technical arguments to justify their spending. I bought my M8 and later my M9P just because I like them, and I enjoy the rangefinder system, that's it.

My pics are as good or as bad as my skills allowed, so I don't blame any of my cameras for that.

Yes you are correct and exactly why I have bought both Leica Noctilux "just because and both still never unboxed"

Well, everybody does with their money whatever pleases, some buy lenses, other wristwatches, other speed boats, or private jets. As long as you are happy, good for you.

 Foskito's gear list:Foskito's gear list
Leica M9-P Leica M8 Sony a7R II Fujifilm X-T3 Canon EOS 5D +11 more
LensWizard
LensWizard Senior Member • Posts: 1,369
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

Foskito wrote:

LensWizard wrote:

Foskito wrote:

JT26 wrote:

I think if your honest it’s because you just want another Leica 😬 arguably there will be more ‘options’ with a Nikon than a Leica...

A top of the line camera from Nikon, Canon or Sony will give any Leica a run for its money at a much lower cost, in fact new Nikon Z or Canon L-RF lenses are amazing and nothing shy of Leica $5000+ lenses.

Few have the guts to admit they buy Leica because of pure and simple lust and GAS, they always try to find technical arguments to justify their spending. I bought my M8 and later my M9P just because I like them, and I enjoy the rangefinder system, that's it.

My pics are as good or as bad as my skills allowed, so I don't blame any of my cameras for that.

Yes you are correct and exactly why I have bought both Leica Noctilux "just because and both still never unboxed"

Well, everybody does with their money whatever pleases, some buy lenses, other wristwatches, other speed boats, or private jets. As long as you are happy, good for you.

Yes even watches and stereo equipment and flashlights and remora luggage as the list sure goes on and buy what you want and how you choose to use it...

-- hide signature --

Canon XLH1 Video, Profoto AcuteR2400, Eizo 27Inch CG277 Monitor, MSI GT80S Laptop, MSI Vortex G-65 Desktop, Wimberly Mk2 Head, Gitzo 5540LS Tripods (2), Arca Swiss Monoball Head, Macbook Pro 15inch Retna Display,Arca Swiss C1 Cube Head, Apple Mac Pro (6) Core 3.5GHZ Dual AMD700's

 LensWizard's gear list:LensWizard's gear list
Leica SL2 Canon EOS-1D Mark II N Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS-1Ds Leica SL (Typ 601) +26 more
brick33308
brick33308 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,900
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2
1

LensWizard wrote:

Foskito wrote:

LensWizard wrote:

Foskito wrote:

JT26 wrote:

I think if your honest it’s because you just want another Leica 😬 arguably there will be more ‘options’ with a Nikon than a Leica...

A top of the line camera from Nikon, Canon or Sony will give any Leica a run for its money at a much lower cost, in fact new Nikon Z or Canon L-RF lenses are amazing and nothing shy of Leica $5000+ lenses.

Few have the guts to admit they buy Leica because of pure and simple lust and GAS, they always try to find technical arguments to justify their spending. I bought my M8 and later my M9P just because I like them, and I enjoy the rangefinder system, that's it.

My pics are as good or as bad as my skills allowed, so I don't blame any of my cameras for that.

Yes you are correct and exactly why I have bought both Leica Noctilux "just because and both still never unboxed"

Well, everybody does with their money whatever pleases, some buy lenses, other wristwatches, other speed boats, or private jets. As long as you are happy, good for you.

Yes even watches and stereo equipment and flashlights and remora luggage as the list sure goes on and buy what you want and how you choose to use it...

hmmm, someone has too much time and money on his hands

GXAlan Regular Member • Posts: 121
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

Personally, I would keep the Z7 and add a Leica S006.   The Leica look combined with a large sensor is still incredible and I think the S006 is the pinnacle of recreational shooting in good light.  There is a reason why the S line is the foundation for their cinema glass as opposed to their SL line.

I personally sold my S006 for the GFX100, but had my finances allowed, I would have kept both systems.  I figured that I could always come back to Leica in the future if needed as the S is an under appreciated masterpiece.

Robgo2 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,232
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

David V wrote:

Thanks to everyone for their responses. One of the main things that attract me to the SL2 is the resolution matching that of my Q2 and most importantly, the ever growing selection of high quality L mount glass.

While I would probably keep the Z7 with the 24-70/2.8 S for the time being, I see my lens options being much greater with L mount and will probably start with a 35 prime and a 70 macro.

David, it seems to me that you have an itch that needs to be scratched.  It sounds as though cost is not much of an issue for you.  The SL2 and various L mount lenses are as good as you can get in FF format.  It's not simply a matter of IQ but also the pleasure of handling such finely made machines and lenses. To be sure, for those who cannot afford the price of entry into Leica World, there are other excellent options that offer more value and great results as well. But for those who can comfortably afford it and will make good use of the gear (as opposed to storing it in a closet), I see no reason not to scratch the itch.

Bags27 Contributing Member • Posts: 770
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

GXAlan wrote:

Personally, I would keep the Z7 and add a Leica S006. The Leica look combined with a large sensor is still incredible and I think the S006 is the pinnacle of recreational shooting in good light. There is a reason why the S line is the foundation for their cinema glass as opposed to their SL line.

I personally sold my S006 for the GFX100, but had my finances allowed, I would have kept both systems. I figured that I could always come back to Leica in the future if needed as the S is an under appreciated masterpiece.

I adore the rendering of the S006. In fact, it is my favorite digital rendering (I shoot more film than digital). But the price of the lenses is very, very high, and they are in even greater demand with the appearance of the S3. That's what's keeping me from embracing this system.

Verto Regular Member • Posts: 338
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

You think the image quality of the Q2 is better than the Z7? I’m just curious. Forget handling which is obviously different.

Joon Lee
Joon Lee Contributing Member • Posts: 542
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

I think the OP should also look at the CL.  Maybe I'm more of an M-size camera person but the SL2 is a pretty large camera (it's 4x the weight of the CL).  I can't imagine lugging that thing around with a big zoom lens.  My shoulders wince just thinking about it.

The CL provides entry into all the SL/TL lenses as well as all the M-lenses with the M-L adapter.  It does have half the resolution of the SL2 (and a cropped sensor) but unless you print huge or crop a lot, I don't see that as being a huge negative.

IMHO, unless you're a fine art photographer where high resolution is important (ie., medium format), I would take a look at the CL.

Now, of course, if the SL2 really strokes your fancy...it doesn't matter what anyone says, does it?  Go for it!

Cheers!

 Joon Lee's gear list:Joon Lee's gear list
Leica Q2 Leica CL Leica Summilux-TL 35mm F1.4 ASPH Leica TL 60mm F2.8 ASPH Leica Summicron-T 23mm f/2 ASPH +2 more
Bags27 Contributing Member • Posts: 770
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

Joon Lee wrote:

I think the OP should also look at the CL. Maybe I'm more of an M-size camera person but the SL2 is a pretty large camera (it's 4x the weight of the CL). I can't imagine lugging that thing around with a big zoom lens. My shoulders wince just thinking about it.

The CL provides entry into all the SL/TL lenses as well as all the M-lenses with the M-L adapter. It does have half the resolution of the SL2 (and a cropped sensor) but unless you print huge or crop a lot, I don't see that as being a huge negative.

IMHO, unless you're a fine art photographer where high resolution is important (ie., medium format), I would take a look at the CL.

Now, of course, if the SL2 really strokes your fancy...it doesn't matter what anyone says, does it? Go for it!

Cheers!

Agree completely. A lot of folks on the Leica Users site who have SLs (I'm not sure I can say that about the SL2, however) say that they can't tell the difference in rendering between their SL and their CL). I really like my CL and, although I was at the head of the line to purchase an SL2, I walked around the store with it and decided to pass. I couldn't imagine carrying it around all day. Too, the lenses that optimize its performance are around $5k each. The CL, however, is likely to get an upgrade in the next year (maybe the Sony 32 mps sensor?; maybe IBIS??), and I'm not sure I'd recommend buying a CL right now, though maybe a used one.

Joon Lee
Joon Lee Contributing Member • Posts: 542
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

Bags27 wrote:

Joon Lee wrote:

I think the OP should also look at the CL. Maybe I'm more of an M-size camera person but the SL2 is a pretty large camera (it's 4x the weight of the CL). I can't imagine lugging that thing around with a big zoom lens. My shoulders wince just thinking about it.

The CL provides entry into all the SL/TL lenses as well as all the M-lenses with the M-L adapter. It does have half the resolution of the SL2 (and a cropped sensor) but unless you print huge or crop a lot, I don't see that as being a huge negative.

IMHO, unless you're a fine art photographer where high resolution is important (ie., medium format), I would take a look at the CL.

Now, of course, if the SL2 really strokes your fancy...it doesn't matter what anyone says, does it? Go for it!

Cheers!

Agree completely. A lot of folks on the Leica Users site who have SLs (I'm not sure I can say that about the SL2, however) say that they can't tell the difference in rendering between their SL and their CL). I really like my CL and, although I was at the head of the line to purchase an SL2, I walked around the store with it and decided to pass. I couldn't imagine carrying it around all day. Too, the lenses that optimize its performance are around $5k each. The CL, however, is likely to get an upgrade in the next year (maybe the Sony 32 mps sensor?; maybe IBIS??), and I'm not sure I'd recommend buying a CL right now, though maybe a used one.

Good points.  I did get a pre-owned CL for a good price so I'm happy.  I don't think I would upgrade to the CL2 unless my CL died on me.  Besides, I already have a Q2 which is basically a CL2 for me!

Cheers!

CJ

 Joon Lee's gear list:Joon Lee's gear list
Leica Q2 Leica CL Leica Summilux-TL 35mm F1.4 ASPH Leica TL 60mm F2.8 ASPH Leica Summicron-T 23mm f/2 ASPH +2 more
David V
OP David V Senior Member • Posts: 1,219
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2
1

Verto wrote:

You think the image quality of the Q2 is better than the Z7? I’m just curious. Forget handling which is obviously different.

The Summilux lens on the Q2 is on a completely different level than what Nikon has in their Z offering at this time.  The way the Q2 renders, the colors, bokeh, everything is better to my eyes.   The noise performance is about the same.

 David V's gear list:David V's gear list
Leica Q2 Fujifilm X100V Leica SL2 Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35mm F2 ASPH Leica SL 24-90mm F2.8-4
JT26 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,041
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2
1

Sorry this is absolutely not true at all.

The Z primes are absolutely superb. The 35, 50, 85 are among the best lenses I have used in terms of resolution. Even the 24/70 at 28mm is pretty much the same as the Q2. I own both.

To say something is in another league would suggest one is much better than the other, which it absolute nonsense

Bags27 Contributing Member • Posts: 770
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

I have neither the Q2 nor the Z7, but that doesn't stop me from offering an opinion!

I did have the Q and thought its rendering astounding...for about a year. Gradually, I could predict exactly what the photos would look like, which is: all the same. There is so much in-camera correction and the algorithms in the processor are so precise, that every photo comes out perfect. As in, perfectly boring with just exactly enough polish.

I've since sold the Q and have invested (gulp!) in M glass and film and digital Leica range finders. I feel fully confirmed, as the photos are unpredictably exciting.

But sometimes, I think I'm nuts to invest this much in a hobby. I think of Ming Thein, certainly one of the greatest photographers who actively posts on the web. Ming has gone through just about every piece of photographic equipment made, and now shoots almost exclusively with the Z7 and the kit zoom. He turns out terrific captures, far better than I could no matter how much I spend.

To paraphrase Lance Armstrong, it's not about the camera.

David V
OP David V Senior Member • Posts: 1,219
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2
2

JT26 wrote:

Sorry this is absolutely not true at all.

The Z primes are absolutely superb. The 35, 50, 85 are among the best lenses I have used in terms of resolution. Even the 24/70 at 28mm is pretty much the same as the Q2. I own both.

To say something is in another league would suggest one is much better than the other, which it absolute nonsense

I own them all as well, so we will just have to agree to disagree.  There is no question in my mind that the color, micro contrast and bokeh from the Q2 are on another level.  They are all clinically sharp lenses, but there's more than just sharpness when I am assessing what I see.  I'm not here to argue with anyone, just stating my opinion, which you are also entitled to.

 David V's gear list:David V's gear list
Leica Q2 Fujifilm X100V Leica SL2 Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35mm F2 ASPH Leica SL 24-90mm F2.8-4
David V
OP David V Senior Member • Posts: 1,219
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

Bags27 wrote:

I have neither the Q2 nor the Z7, but that doesn't stop me from offering an opinion!

I did have the Q and thought its rendering astounding...for about a year. Gradually, I could predict exactly what the photos would look like, which is: all the same. There is so much in-camera correction and the algorithms in the processor are so precise, that every photo comes out perfect. As in, perfectly boring with just exactly enough polish.

I've since sold the Q and have invested (gulp!) in M glass and film and digital Leica range finders. I feel fully confirmed, as the photos are unpredictably exciting.

But sometimes, I think I'm nuts to invest this much in a hobby. I think of Ming Thein, certainly one of the greatest photographers who actively posts on the web. Ming has gone through just about every piece of photographic equipment made, and now shoots almost exclusively with the Z7 and the kit zoom. He turns out terrific captures, far better than I could no matter how much I spend.

To paraphrase Lance Armstrong, it's not about the camera.

This, my friend, is unfortunately true.  It's the archer, not the arrow, so we all justify what we think we "need", to create.  I love the Nikon Z gear.  I just love the Leica stuff more.  I am blessed to be able to shoot what I want, so I will count my blessings and enjoy my passion.

My friend rides a $40K Harley Davidson motorcycle on his weekend runs with his buds, so we all have our thing.

Enjoy.

 David V's gear list:David V's gear list
Leica Q2 Fujifilm X100V Leica SL2 Leica APO-Summicron-SL 35mm F2 ASPH Leica SL 24-90mm F2.8-4
JT26 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,041
Re: I think I'm in trouble.....Leica SL2

Yes fair point photography is far more than sharpness and resolution. I bought the Q for my love of 28mm and Leica simplicity. Plus the files are superb this time.

Im never bothered about the colour output as I change them so much myself anyway. And the Q rendering isn’t particularly special in my option. It’s smooth, sharp and handles flare well, just typical modern Leica rendering. Special to me are their old Lux and Cron lenses. But they are special because they are imperfect which I like.

The 85mm and 50mm Z lenses resolve more than the Q lens, especially at the edges.

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