1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
Re: Not use it often
1

alcelc wrote:

but still have a few shots using ETC (Extended Tele Converter: an in-camera cropping feature of Panny without resizing back to full resolution) from a trip to Spain a few years ago.

I don't use DTC often either. It is cool sometimes with the 75-300mm II though zoomed out to 300mm to get a pseudo 1200mm-efl. Pretty wild. Nothing I would have imagined years ago shooting film.

I never combined ETC with Digital zoom which could give me 8x zoom effect and in full resolution,

The following is taken with GX7 & 45-150 f/4-5.6, Picture size = S, under ETC (so 2x zoom effect) = 600mm eq AoV of FF. It was taken on Mirador de l'Alcalde on the hill overlooking Barcelona. The Spanish equivalent of The Gherkin London was some few miles away.

The haze on that day of taking that image was quite bad... Some contrast be adjusted.

Actually, that looks pretty good.

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Emsquared Forum Member • Posts: 69
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

Im kinda jealous that folks with hi res mode could use a crop of a high res shot if subject was still. If oly wasnt bye bye they might have come out with low loss digital zoom this way eventually

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James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 8,148
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

Emsquared wrote:

Im kinda jealous that folks with hi res mode could use a crop of a high res shot if subject was still. If oly wasnt bye bye they might have come out with low loss digital zoom this way eventually

You can make high resolution shots with any camera by doing the work in post. All that the in-camera modes do is make it more convenient

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JakeJY Senior Member • Posts: 5,054
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter
1

James Stirling wrote:

Emsquared wrote:

Im kinda jealous that folks with hi res mode could use a crop of a high res shot if subject was still. If oly wasnt bye bye they might have come out with low loss digital zoom this way eventually

You can make high resolution shots with any camera by doing the work in post. All that the in-camera modes do is make it more convenient

Making it more convenient is the main point. You can also do digital zoom in post, but it's not nearly the same experience as it being a button away in camera.

Same thing with HDR modes. Smartphones make it so convenient (and does a good enough job of removing artifacts) that it can easily be used as the default mode. Camera makers haven't been able to do the same. The in camera ones don't do anywhere near as good a job removing artifacts, and using bracketing to do it in post is involves much more work.

No wonder smartphones are eating camera makers' lunches.

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James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 8,148
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

JakeJY wrote:

James Stirling wrote:

Emsquared wrote:

Im kinda jealous that folks with hi res mode could use a crop of a high res shot if subject was still. If oly wasnt bye bye they might have come out with low loss digital zoom this way eventually

You can make high resolution shots with any camera by doing the work in post. All that the in-camera modes do is make it more convenient

Making it more convenient is the main point. You can also do digital zoom in post, but it's not nearly the same experience as it being a button away in camera.

The person I replied to does not have the high res mode . I was simply pointing out that you can achieve high res images with any camera. It also suffers from the exact same limitations with regard to motion

Same thing with HDR modes. Smartphones make it so convenient (and does a good enough job of removing artifacts) that it can easily be used as the default mode. Camera makers haven't been able to do the same. The in camera ones don't do anywhere near as good a job removing artifacts, and using bracketing to do it in post is involves much more work.

I agree it is more convenient no question about that I would not do it to 100 photos from a trip but for the odd one off it is easy enough to do

No wonder smartphones are eating camera makers' lunches.

I think a big part of it is their connectability take a photo post a photo almost instantly . While there are some very talented folk using mobiles and you so see some very good results. The vast majority simply don't care , when you look at the typical Facebook etc photo-post it is more about sharing than quality. Endless photos of me having dinner , me in the pub me whatever, selfies of women making "duck faces"  I am not sure who decided that was a good pose  .

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Isacas Contributing Member • Posts: 662
Using Digital Teleconverter
1

Using the 75-300 from my balcony

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
U.S. Navy ship heading to Pearl Harbor
3

Click on original to see a better, sharper image. The photos in a dpreview thread are highly compressed and soft.

Ship was way out there. Of course, heat waves and humidity in the air above the ocean.

Pseudo 1200mm-efl

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
Re: Using Digital Teleconverter
1

Isacas wrote:

Using the 75-300 from my balcony

Looks very good!

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OM mani padme hum Regular Member • Posts: 319
Re: Using Digital Teleconverter

I sometimes use the 2x function at music festivals (obviously not this year) and have got good results with shorter, faster lenses. As has been mentioned it's super quick to use, especially if you assign it to a function button.

However, with the 40-150 f2.8 and 1.4x TC I've found it extremely difficult to hold the camera steady enough to frame the subject; a tripod is not an option, though a monopod might be possible. Has anyone tried using the 300 f4.0 Pro with DTC, and if so what's the lowest feasible shutter speed handheld? Thanks.

OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
Sapporo marathon
4

Click on original to see a better, sharper image. The photos in a dpreview thread are highly compressed and soft.

Pseudo 1200mm-efl

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
Re: Using Digital Teleconverter

OM mani padme hum wrote:

I sometimes use the 2x function at music festivals (obviously not this year) and have got good results with shorter, faster lenses. As has been mentioned it's super quick to use, especially if you assign it to a function button.

However, with the 40-150 f2.8 and 1.4x TC I've found it extremely difficult to hold the camera steady enough to frame the subject; a tripod is not an option, though a monopod might be possible. Has anyone tried using the 300 f4.0 Pro with DTC, and if so what's the lowest feasible shutter speed handheld? Thanks.

Yes, if a monopod is allowed  I suggest you get one because it will help a lot.  I used to always carry a monopod with me and used it a lot, even when traveling.  Then starting about 15 years ago I started getting various cameras/lenses with good IS (Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, KM, Canon) so I stopped carrying a monopod.  Trying to use a 600mm-efl lens though even with IS a monopod would be a great help.

As for lowest handheld shutter speed, well, that depends on the individual.  Remember you have to also have a speed that is enough to freeze subject movement.

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OM mani padme hum Regular Member • Posts: 319
Re: Using Digital Teleconverter

Henry Richardson wroted thus:

As for lowest handheld shutter speed, well, that depends on the individual. Remember you have to also have a speed that is enough to freeze subject movement.

Understood. I've found 1/250 is good for stopping action, 1/125 is usually enough, 1/60 is often enough, and less than that rarely works. It's framing that seems to be the bigger problem, not really surprising at 840mm equivalent; what I've been wondering is whether Sync IS would help much with that. I also suspect a monopod would be banned for those lacking accreditation and/or would cause problems with security, aside from being a PITA.

OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
Olympus 100-400mm: 1600mm
1

Using the new Olympus 100-400mm and the 2x Digital Teleconverter results in a pseudo 1600mm-efl view. Wild.

For me the fun of using the DTC sometimes is at the extreme telephoto end.  Not interesting to me using it for a 25mm, 50mm, 100mm, etc. FL.

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Rob J
Rob J Contributing Member • Posts: 622
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter
1

I shot these two using the 2x digital zoom on my G9. I often shoot birds and wildlife using this function to get in a bit closer. 2x gives better results than 4x although I have had a few 4x shots work out fine.

Grey heron shot with Panasonic G9, 50-200mm with 2x digital zoom.

Shot with Panasonic G9, 50-200mm with 2x digital zoom.

OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

Rob J wrote:

I shot these two using the 2x digital zoom on my G9. I often shoot birds and wildlife using this function to get in a bit closer. 2x gives better results than 4x although I have had a few 4x shots work out fine.

Those look pretty good.  Yeah, I think 4x which uses 1/8 of the pixels and then interpolates is too much.  2x uses 1/4 the pixels and that is as far as you can go, I think.  Although for subjects that have very little detail, I suppose, the 4x could work sometimes.

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JimH123 Senior Member • Posts: 2,817
Digital Teleconverter isn't the only way to get 1200mm
1

Henry Richardson wrote:

Sometimes just for grins I use the Olympus 75-300mm II with the 2x digital teleconverter function for fun jpegs. What it does is take the central 25% of the image (5mp in the case of the 20mp PEN-F) and then interpolates it up to full size. The EVF shows the image you will get. At 300mm it would be equivalent to a 600mm field of view. Of course, the quality is not the same as a real 600mm, but I have found that if I then downsize the 20mp photo to 10-12mp on my computer it usually looks pretty darn good. For some images even the full 20mp looks good. Just a few years ago 10-12mp was living large. Big enough for most uses still. Note, that if you shoot raw instead of jpeg you can still see the pseudo 600mm view in the EVF, but then you will have to crop the raw on your computer to the central 25% and then upsize. Remember, 600mm on m4/3 is like 1200mm on FF. Pretty awesome.

Remember that you must have excellent support to shoot at the pseudo 1200mm. I have shot in good light handheld though and by holding very steady (elbows on a support) and the IBIS I have managed some pretty good results.

And, yes, I know, this sort of thing gets some people's panties in a twist. Only the best, most expensive gear that has been blessed by the pixel peeping, techno geek, measurebators is good enough for them! For the rest of us though it is a fun thing to do and the results are often pretty good.

I will post a few examples. 1500 pixels on the long side. Some have a bit of cropping so more like 1300mm, 1400mm, or even 1500mm! EXIF included.

Please feel free to post your telephoto shots using the Olympus or Panasonic digital teleconverter function in this thread.

Click on original to see a better, sharper image. The photos in a dpreview thread are highly compressed and soft.

I am using an Olympus EM1 with an Onlympus 75-300, along with Topaz's Gigapixel AI followed by Sharpen AI - Stabilize mode. Digital 2x in camera is convenient. But resizing the image in post processing can outdo what the camera can do.

The original (unprocessed)

The cropped and processed version using Gigapixel AI and Sharpen AI - Stabilize Mode.

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Rob J
Rob J Contributing Member • Posts: 622
Re: Digital Teleconverter isn't the only way to get 1200mm

I am using an Olympus EM1 with an Onlympus 75-300, along with Topaz's Gigapixel AI followed by Sharpen AI - Stabilize mode. Digital 2x in camera is convenient. But resizing the image in post processing can outdo what the camera can do.

That is interesting information. I have Topaz Gigapixel AI as well as Sharpen AI - I have just never spent much time working with either. I'll have to do some resizing experimenting with both to see what it might do.

OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,139
Is The Digital Tele-Converter Feature In Your OMD Camera Worth Your While?
5

JimH123 wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

Sometimes just for grins I use the Olympus 75-300mm II with the 2x digital teleconverter function for fun jpegs. What it does is take the central 25% of the image (5mp in the case of the 20mp PEN-F) and then interpolates it up to full size. The EVF shows the image you will get. At 300mm it would be equivalent to a 600mm field of view. Of course, the quality is not the same as a real 600mm, but I have found that if I then downsize the 20mp photo to 10-12mp on my computer it usually looks pretty darn good. For some images even the full 20mp looks good. Just a few years ago 10-12mp was living large. Big enough for most uses still. Note, that if you shoot raw instead of jpeg you can still see the pseudo 600mm view in the EVF, but then you will have to crop the raw on your computer to the central 25% and then upsize. Remember, 600mm on m4/3 is like 1200mm on FF. Pretty awesome.

I am using an Olympus EM1 with an Onlympus 75-300, along with Topaz's Gigapixel AI followed by Sharpen AI - Stabilize mode. Digital 2x in camera is convenient. But resizing the image in post processing can outdo what the camera can do.

I am sure Gigapixel AI can do a good job. Costs about $110 including tax. DTC already included in camera. You may recall what I wrote above.

I recall that 3-4 years ago there was a thread here where this was discussed. Some people did some testing and thought that Olympus does a slightly better job in camera, but I don't know. Depends on what uprez software is used no doubt and that can vary by image. The point is to have fun though and the DTC for super long such as 1200mm-efl is a blast. A really big advantage to using the digital teleconverter though is that the EVF shows what you will get at the proper size rather than trying to guess the central 1/4 of the image. You can see details better, see that things are in focus properly, etc.

A few years ago this guy wrote an article about it:

Is The Digital Tele-Converter Feature In Your OMD Camera Worth Your While?

https://www.thewanderinglensman.com/2015/03/is-digital-tele-converter-feature-in.html

My thoughts are that for people who care about getting the best then forget Gigapixel AI and DTC and get a longer focal length lens instead. For fun though DTC is great especially for super long telephoto shots!   And the results can be sometimes surprisingly good, especially if you downsize the 20mp photo to 10-12mp.

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stevevp Regular Member • Posts: 423
Re: Is The Digital Tele-Converter Feature In Your OMD Camera Worth Your While?

Probably daft question. How do you downsize the 20mp photo to 10-12mp?

Thanks.

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Tatouzou
Tatouzou Senior Member • Posts: 2,050
Re: Is The Digital Tele-Converter Feature In Your OMD Camera Worth Your While?
2

I used these in-camera features in all my Panasonic cameras (GX8, G7, GM5 and TZ110/FZ100), especially in videos as I dont PP my occasional video clips.

It is only JPEG but can be a convenient alternative to post-processing, and in video it is really a game changer.

Anyway, you better use a sharp lens, for instance I get better results from the 45-175PZ than from the 14-140.

With the ETC feature, the PZ lens also has the advantage of using the full sensor up to max optical FL, and then only starting to crop for more telephoto. Same with the power zoom in TZ110 (FZ100).

It also automatically extends the zooming range when you choose a smaller resolution, for instance 10MP in GX8 with 45-175 make believe you have a 45-245 (= 90-490 FF equivalent FL), and my TZ110 set at 10MP behaves like a 25-350 superzoom.

If you set in 5MP, the 45-175 goes up to 350 (=700 FF eq.) and the TZ110 behaves like a 25-500 FF eq.

I have not compared the respective IQ, but, IMO, this ETC seamless feature is more convenient than the digital zoom, which go further, but applies the crop factor 2X and 4X across the whole zoom range, hence you need to switch it off if you want to dezoom to the wide end.

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