1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

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Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
1200mm: Digital Teleconverter
37

Sometimes just for grins I use the Olympus 75-300mm II with the 2x digital teleconverter function for fun jpegs. What it does is take the central 25% of the image (5mp in the case of the 20mp PEN-F) and then interpolates it up to full size. The EVF shows the image you will get. At 300mm it would be equivalent to a 600mm field of view. Of course, the quality is not the same as a real 600mm, but I have found that if I then downsize the 20mp photo to 10-12mp on my computer it usually looks pretty darn good. For some images even the full 20mp looks good. Just a few years ago 10-12mp was living large. Big enough for most uses still. Note, that if you shoot raw instead of jpeg you can still see the pseudo 600mm view in the EVF, but then you will have to crop the raw on your computer to the central 25% and then upsize. Remember, 600mm on m4/3 is like 1200mm on FF. Pretty awesome.

Remember that you must have excellent support to shoot at the pseudo 1200mm. I have shot in good light handheld though and by holding very steady (elbows on a support) and the IBIS I have managed some pretty good results.

And, yes, I know, this sort of thing gets some people's panties in a twist. Only the best, most expensive gear that has been blessed by the pixel peeping, techno geek, measurebators is good enough for them! For the rest of us though it is a fun thing to do and the results are often pretty good.

I will post a few examples. 1500 pixels on the long side. Some have a bit of cropping so more like 1300mm, 1400mm, or even 1500mm! EXIF included.

Please feel free to post your telephoto shots using the Olympus or Panasonic digital teleconverter function in this thread.

Click on original to see a better, sharper image. The photos in a dpreview thread are highly compressed and soft.

Sapporo, Japan

Kyoto, Japan

Sapporo, Japan -- electronic shutter

Sapporo, Japan

Sapporo, Japan

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jalywol
jalywol Forum Pro • Posts: 10,799
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter
3

I never much got into the digital teleconverter concept, myself.  Why not use a real TC and just crop the image down, instead?

This was taken with the 50-200mm and 1.4x TC, and given about a 50% crop.  Advantage?  No digital interpolation to mess with the actual pixel level information.

-J

Max Iso
Max Iso Veteran Member • Posts: 8,652
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter
1

It's definitely an interesting feature but i think more so for video. I don't know what the exact crop increase is but since video "rez" output doesn't change from full sensor to ETC, it turns into a pretty neat feature.

Turning on ETC and digital IS on a 4k body is pretty amazing, in the near future im going to try it out on my 1250mm C90 scope. Not sure what the final FL will be but im guessing 3000mm+, maybe even 4000mm.

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acfo Senior Member • Posts: 1,036
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

Henry Richardson wrote:

Sometimes just for grins I use the Olympus 75-300mm II with the 2x digital teleconverter function for fun jpegs. What it does is take the central 25% of the image (5mp in the case of the 20mp PEN-F) and then interpolates it up to full size.

Isn't this what we call "birders crop" in post processing?

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Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 27,175
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter

acfo wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

Sometimes just for grins I use the Olympus 75-300mm II with the 2x digital teleconverter function for fun jpegs. What it does is take the central 25% of the image (5mp in the case of the 20mp PEN-F) and then interpolates it up to full size.

Isn't this what we call "birders crop" in post processing?

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the computer says no

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
3000mm or 4000mm
1

Max Iso wrote:

It's definitely an interesting feature but i think more so for video. I don't know what the exact crop increase is but since video "rez" output doesn't change from full sensor to ETC, it turns into a pretty neat feature.

Turning on ETC and digital IS on a 4k body is pretty amazing, in the near future im going to try it out on my 1250mm C90 scope. Not sure what the final FL will be but im guessing 3000mm+, maybe even 4000mm.

I think Nikon has a small sensor camera with a very, very long zoom.  3000mm or so.  With your scope you could play around and get some interesting photos, I think.  Use your imagination.  Probably not great for boring bird photos, but be creative is my suggestion.

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
Bird?

jalywol wrote:

Nice.  What kind of bird is that?

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
Sapporo matsuri, ISO 4000
4

Click on original to see a better, sharper image. The photos in a dpreview thread are highly compressed and soft.

Pseudo 1200mm-efl in dim light.

Sapporo, Japan -- ISO 4000

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jalywol
jalywol Forum Pro • Posts: 10,799
Re: Bird?
1

Hi Henry.

It's a male Cardinal.  They are a very brilliant red!
The females are very pretty also, but they are much paler:

-J

hindesite Veteran Member • Posts: 4,892
A matter of courtesy...
8

I'm sure you (and others who have posted from the same cartoon series) would object to somebody posting your own images without attribution - and there is even a specific forum rule about this.

You've even cropped off the identifying and copyright information, which could indicate a willful attempt to obscure the source.

Why not extend the courtesy to the original author? An attribution and link back to the original is the least you can do, and costs you absolutely nothing.

Not that it is relevant, but that cartoon is a lot more creative, and probably took longer to execute than most of the images in this forum.

The cartoon is one of a long series by Aaron Johnson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Duck

https://www.whattheduck.net/

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
Post your DTC photos

Henry Richardson wrote:

Please feel free to post your telephoto shots using the Olympus or Panasonic digital teleconverter function in this thread.

Post your DTC photos!

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JakeJY Senior Member • Posts: 5,054
Re: 1200mm: Digital Teleconverter
3

jalywol wrote:

I never much got into the digital teleconverter concept, myself. Why not use a real TC and just crop the image down, instead?

This was taken with the 50-200mm and 1.4x TC, and given about a 50% crop. Advantage? No digital interpolation to mess with the actual pixel level information.

-J

A real TC will almost always result in a better image, but the problem with a real TC is you have to first have one and you also have to attach it. Digital teleconverter (or Digital Zoom in Panasonic cameras) comes free with the camera and is a button away.

Kind of off topic, but I wish camera manufacturers can try some of the super resolution modes like Google Pixel does. It's similar to but not quite as demanding as HHHR. By using this only tied to digital zoom, it allows the camera to ignore the unused parts of the sensor area and get a faster burst of images.

https://ai.googleblog.com/2018/10/see-better-and-further-with-super-res.html

Absent of this, having a continuously variable digital zoom would be useful. My Panasonic only comes with 2x or 4x. 4x is a bit too much, 2x works ok, but it would be much nicer to be able to get other values (even less than 2x). For example, if I want something between 140-280mm (on my 14-140mm), the current digital zoom implementation means I'm unnecessarily throwing away 3/4 of my sensor area to achieve that.

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James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 8,148
Re: Post your DTC photos
3

Henry Richardson wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

Please feel free to post your telephoto shots using the Olympus or Panasonic digital teleconverter function in this thread.

Post your DTC photos!

I was tinkering with some samples form the Nikon 24-200mm . This is a quarter crop of a quarter crop { 800mm FOV } . Then up-sized to 12x8" output with Topaz Gigapixel ai

original frame { downsized } showing the cropped area

Final output, perhaps a step too far

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James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 8,148
Re: A matter of courtesy...
16

hindesite wrote:

I'm sure you (and others who have posted from the same cartoon series) would object to somebody posting your own images without attribution - and there is even a specific forum rule about this.

You've even cropped off the identifying and copyright information, which could indicate a willful attempt to obscure the source.

The copyright info is on the image Henry posted. It is a low res file and difficult to read but I don't see any attempt to obscure the source

https://www.whattheduck.net/

Why not extend the courtesy to the original author? An attribution and link back to the original is the least you can do, and costs you absolutely nothing.

Not that it is relevant, but that cartoon is a lot more creative, and probably took longer to execute than most of the images in this forum.

The cartoon is one of a long series by Aaron Johnson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Duck

https://www.whattheduck.net/

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Feel free to tinker with any images I post

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
That Google DTC is pretty cool

JakeJY wrote:

A real TC will almost always result in a better image, but the problem with a real TC is you have to first have one and you also have to attach it. Digital teleconverter (or Digital Zoom in Panasonic cameras) comes free with the camera and is a button away.

Kind of off topic, but I wish camera manufacturers can try some of the super resolution modes like Google Pixel does. It's similar to but not quite as demanding as HHHR. By using this only tied to digital zoom, it allows the camera to ignore the unused parts of the sensor area and get a faster burst of images.

https://ai.googleblog.com/2018/10/see-better-and-further-with-super-res.html

I had not heard of that. Pretty cool. Do you think the processors in our cameras can handle it? They can do handheld HDR where they merge several photos while aligning them and many other things. This looks like another area that the camera companies should learn from what is being done in smartphones.

Absent of this, having a continuously variable digital zoom would be useful. My Panasonic only comes with 2x or 4x. 4x is a bit too much, 2x works ok, but it would be much nicer to be able to get other values (even less than 2x). For example, if I want something between 140-280mm (on my 14-140mm), the current digital zoom implementation means I'm unnecessarily throwing away 3/4 of my sensor area to achieve that.

I think Olympus just has 2x, but maybe I have missed something. I have the Panasonic GX7II (GX85) and I have not explored this function yet.

The only lens I have used DTC is with the Olympus 75-300mm II. Getting to a pseudo 600mm (1200mm in FF terms) just seems so wild to me. I used to shoot film when a 300mm (150mm in m4/3 terms) was quite long. Sure it isn't as good as a real 600mm, but it can be fun and sometimes the results are even pretty good. I can even shoot that pseudo 1200mm-efl handheld most of the time.  Jeez, Louise! For the duck photo I didn't even have any support. I think I was kneeling or crouching and had no rail or post to use.

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
Re: Post your DTC photos
1

James Stirling wrote:

I was tinkering with some samples form the Nikon 24-200mm . This is a quarter crop of a quarter crop { 800mm FOV } . Then up-sized to 12x8" output with Topaz Gigapixel ai

Thanks for posting.

Although I feel no need for FF because m4/3 works so well for travel, I think if I did get a FF camera it would probably be the new Nikon Z5 + Nikon 24-200mm and then add one fast prime lens.  If the coronavirus turns out to make travel much more difficult in the future because of some airlines, hotels, etc. going belly up, harder to get visas, etc. then I might have to think about shifting my focus to another photographic interest.  Then FF might be something I would consider.  Having said that, my m4/3 still satisfies most of the time.  I had a recent thread where I looked at my Lightroom stats for all my m4/3 photos going back 8.5 years and very few were at higher than ISO 800 and over 80% were at ISO 200 or less, even with f4-5.6 lenses which I use the most.

original frame { downsized } showing the cropped area

Final output, perhaps a step too far

That looks quite good.  I bet it would make a very nice, big print.

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James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 8,148
Re: Post your DTC photos

Henry Richardson wrote:

James Stirling wrote:

I was tinkering with some samples form the Nikon 24-200mm . This is a quarter crop of a quarter crop { 800mm FOV } . Then up-sized to 12x8" output with Topaz Gigapixel ai

Thanks for posting.

Although I feel no need for FF because m4/3 works so well for travel, I think if I did get a FF camera it would probably be the new Nikon Z5 + Nikon 24-200mm and then add one fast prime lens. If the coronavirus turns out to make travel much more difficult in the future because of some airlines, hotels, etc. going belly up, harder to get visas, etc.

I imagine that the restrictions on travel. Will not be helping the beleaguered camera market as , special trips  exotic holidays and so on are often a motivator for new gear. For short flights around Europe wearing a mask would not be too big a concern . Not so sure I would want to take a long haul trip that way. Oh well Scotland is a small country but lots of beautiful locations so staying at home is not so bad

then I might have to think about shifting my focus to another photographic interest. Then FF might be something I would consider. Having said that, my m4/3 still satisfies most of the time. I had a recent thread where I looked at my Lightroom stats for all my m4/3 photos going back 8.5 years and very few were at higher than ISO 800 and over 80% were at ISO 200 or less, even with f4-5.6 lenses which I use the most.

I tend to use my m43 and FF as one kit , using each to its strengths . Though the fans of each format are not always complimentary to each other They work very well together . Not that you can't do video with FF but I find it more enjoyable and convenient with m43. My GX8 with 20mm combo is my favourite set-up ever and I would not part with it

original frame { downsized } showing the cropped area

Final output, perhaps a step too far

That looks quite good. I bet it would make a very nice, big print.

While it can't do magic , I have been quite impressed with Topaz gigapixel's capabilities

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alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 14,929
Not use it often
2

but still have a few shots using ETC (Extended Tele Converter: an in-camera cropping feature of Panny without resizing back to full resolution) from a trip to Spain a few years ago.

I never combined ETC with Digital zoom which could give me 8x zoom effect and in full resolution,

The following is taken with GX7 & 45-150 f/4-5.6, Picture size = S, under ETC (so 2x zoom effect) = 600mm eq AoV of FF. It was taken on Mirador de l'Alcalde on the hill overlooking Barcelona. The Spanish equivalent of The Gherkin London was some few miles away.

The haze on that day of taking that image was quite bad... Some contrast be adjusted.

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JakeJY Senior Member • Posts: 5,054
Re: That Google DTC is pretty cool

Henry Richardson wrote:

JakeJY wrote:

A real TC will almost always result in a better image, but the problem with a real TC is you have to first have one and you also have to attach it. Digital teleconverter (or Digital Zoom in Panasonic cameras) comes free with the camera and is a button away.

Kind of off topic, but I wish camera manufacturers can try some of the super resolution modes like Google Pixel does. It's similar to but not quite as demanding as HHHR. By using this only tied to digital zoom, it allows the camera to ignore the unused parts of the sensor area and get a faster burst of images.

https://ai.googleblog.com/2018/10/see-better-and-further-with-super-res.html

I had not heard of that. Pretty cool. Do you think the processors in our cameras can handle it? They can do handheld HDR where they merge several photos while aligning them and many other things. This looks like another area that the camera companies should learn from what is being done in smartphones.

For a 2x zoom, it would only be processing 1/4 of the data that something like HHHR does, so it should help a ton on reducing the processing demands. Might make the feature viable in a lot more cameras. The other thing camera makers need to do is much better AI to reduce motion artifacts. That's something current in-camera HDR mode and HHHR generally does a poor job of doing.

Absent of this, having a continuously variable digital zoom would be useful. My Panasonic only comes with 2x or 4x. 4x is a bit too much, 2x works ok, but it would be much nicer to be able to get other values (even less than 2x). For example, if I want something between 140-280mm (on my 14-140mm), the current digital zoom implementation means I'm unnecessarily throwing away 3/4 of my sensor area to achieve that.

I think Olympus just has 2x, but maybe I have missed something. I have the Panasonic GX7II (GX85) and I have not explored this function yet.

I have GX85 and it has 2x and 4x. It's under MENU > [Rec] > [Digital Zoom]. For quick access, this can be assigned to a function button.

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OP Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 19,135
Turtle in lake, Hokkaido
4

Click on original to see a better, sharper image. The photos in a dpreview thread are highly compressed and soft.

Pseudo 1200mm-efl

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