JIP— take on Fuji Locked

If JIP will actually make more m4/3 cameras and lenses and not just sell everything off, PERHAPS they should do what I now think Olympus should have done many years ago— recognize that Fuji is their closest direct competitor, and work to take them on and take over Fuji’s market share.

Olympus was at 3% and Fuji at 5% (roughly).

Olympus was never a direct competitor to the big makers for multiple reasons. It is and was unrealistic to think they could ever reach the status of the big makers— how can you realistically plan on going from 3% to 20% in they shrunk camera industry?

But Fuji makes retro looking rangefinder style and DSLR style cameras, just as Olympus does. To most observers, both companies make retro camera styles instead of the ubiquitous plastic injection mould look of the big makers.

It seems that Olympus attempted to market towards many markets and obviously it did not work.

How many comments about a Pen F2 or ep6 exist on various forums? Olympus kept churning out epl bodies which are well and good, but they apparently are really for the Japanese market and have the lowest features.

Fuji seems to have embraced this style and people know if they want such a look that Fuji has it in multiple models, and also with DSLR style as well.

It is difficult to try to be everything to everyone, and if you are a tiny player, I think it is better to focus on one style message for the consumer.

Maybe this would have made zero difference, and I think the time to do it should have been the moment they got  the good 16mp sensor upgrade from the 12mp— no more epl models with minimal dials— epls, ep’s, omd’s all retro looking with blatant dials etc

BluenoseNS wrote:

If JIP will actually make more m4/3 cameras and lenses and not just sell everything off, PERHAPS they should do what I now think Olympus should have done many years ago— recognize that Fuji is their closest direct competitor, and work to take them on and take over Fuji’s market share.

Olympus was at 3% and Fuji at 5% (roughly).

Olympus was never a direct competitor to the big makers for multiple reasons. It is and was unrealistic to think they could ever reach the status of the big makers— how can you realistically plan on going from 3% to 20% in they shrunk camera industry?

Isn’t Panasonic their closest direct competitor? 🤔

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

Albert Valentino wrote:

BluenoseNS wrote:

If JIP will actually make more m4/3 cameras and lenses and not just sell everything off, PERHAPS they should do what I now think Olympus should have done many years ago— recognize that Fuji is their closest direct competitor, and work to take them on and take over Fuji’s market share.

Olympus was at 3% and Fuji at 5% (roughly).

Olympus was never a direct competitor to the big makers for multiple reasons. It is and was unrealistic to think they could ever reach the status of the big makers— how can you realistically plan on going from 3% to 20% in they shrunk camera industry?

Isn’t Panasonic their closest direct competitor? 🤔

I suppose in a way, however they both use the identical mount and I suspect that it would be a better business idea to take market share away from a competitor who doesn’t share the same mount.

i'd rather have olympus disappearing than fuji.

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

I would much rather have the E-M1 MkIII than the Z5 and that kit lens.  Still I guess the bottom line price talks to people, just not to me.

DLBlack wrote:

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

I would much rather have the E-M1 MkIII than the Z5 and that kit lens. Still I guess the bottom line price talks to people, just not to me.

Doesn’t the Nikon Z5 top off at 5fps? Em1iii has some pure madness burst mode at 60fps I believe and that pre-capture ability.

These inexpensive full frame cameras are nice and all, but people are lusting after them as if they are more than just a great sensor packaged in a bare-bones feature set to get people into a system.

They are obviously better in image quality, but there are many features in m4/3 that just don’t exist in these entry point models.

JIP could do worse than to offer a rangefinder with the guts of the E-M1iii or omd em5iii. 
And for gods sake get a proper panorama mode.

Felice62 wrote:

i'd rather have olympus disappearing than fuji.

Well that’s what is happening!

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

JIP is a specialist at cutting, starting with management, products, sourcing, etc.

They don’t really run companies. They tried to slash and then butter up VAIAO, but no one would buy. VAIO is pretty much a few guys in China contract sourcing.

Every other asset JIP touches is cleaned up and rationalized for third party sale. They don’t invest anything in the companies they acquire. They simply take over failing assets and get what they can for them.

Olympus is paying JIP.

Which can make sense. If some of oly's technology went into an x series body we could see some interesting hybrids

BluenoseNS wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

I would much rather have the E-M1 MkIII than the Z5 and that kit lens. Still I guess the bottom line price talks to people, just not to me.

Doesn’t the Nikon Z5 top off at 5fps? Em1iii has some pure madness burst mode at 60fps I believe and that pre-capture ability.

These inexpensive full frame cameras are nice and all, but people are lusting after them as if they are more than just a great sensor packaged in a bare-bones feature set to get people into a system.

They are obviously better in image quality, but there are many features in m4/3 that just don’t exist in these entry point models.

JIP could do worse than to offer a rangefinder with the guts of the E-M1iii or omd em5iii.
And for gods sake get a proper panorama mode.

Do we even need 60fps?

It’s a market appeal for maybe 0.0000001% of shooters. Maybe.

The larger sensor with superior IQ may count for 80% of the feature weighting of the camera in competitive comparison. All other features save for AF (Olympus is near the bottom) and stabilization (Olympus is at the top), add up to zero if sensor performance overrides all else.

Olympus doesn’t have a tech problem. They have a price problem. Their products are vastly over-priced compared to FF.

Doug Janis wrote:

BluenoseNS wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

I would much rather have the E-M1 MkIII than the Z5 and that kit lens. Still I guess the bottom line price talks to people, just not to me.

Doesn’t the Nikon Z5 top off at 5fps? Em1iii has some pure madness burst mode at 60fps I believe and that pre-capture ability.

These inexpensive full frame cameras are nice and all, but people are lusting after them as if they are more than just a great sensor packaged in a bare-bones feature set to get people into a system.

They are obviously better in image quality, but there are many features in m4/3 that just don’t exist in these entry point models.

JIP could do worse than to offer a rangefinder with the guts of the E-M1iii or omd em5iii.
And for gods sake get a proper panorama mode.

Do we even need 60fps?

It’s a market appeal for maybe 0.0000001% of shooters. Maybe.

The larger sensor with superior IQ may count for 80% of the feature weighting of the camera in competitive comparison. All other features save for AF (Olympus is near the bottom) and stabilization (Olympus is at the top), add up to zero if sensor performance overrides all else.

Olympus doesn’t have a tech problem. They have a price problem. Their products are vastly over-priced compared to FF.

Tell me again how the m4/3 sensor has inferior image quality to a full frame sensor, and how because of that the prices for m4/3 equipment should be priced dramatically lower than what they are, and how their high price for such poor quality led to their downfall.

Can you please rephrase that concept because I don’t think I quite understand.

How long after the burial are you going to bring up the deceased’s poor health habits?

DLBlack wrote:

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

I would much rather have the E-M1 MkIII than the Z5 and that kit lens. Still I guess the bottom line price talks to people, just not to me.

Me too 😃

flickr.com/3571/3380136992_7c5a0986ea_m.jpg

Re: the Z5, the marketing starts with the name on the camera. Then, they integrated stuff from higher end cameras in their line. Continuity.

Then they focused on what 80-85% of their defined market wants. IOW...they didn't build an E-M1X.

Oly made a conscious decision to not meaningfully leverage the advantages of the smaller sensor. And we've been talking about that on the forum for years. I use and love my GM5. And it's replacement is...where?

Doesn't matter much now. My Oly/Pany bodies and lenses will get me thru the foreseeable future. Really too bad, but this outcome was, at some level, preventable.

Life will go on.

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

I'll take my E-M5 III with the 12-45 f/4 Pro.....

mring1 wrote:

Re: the Z5, the marketing starts with the name on the camera. Then, they integrated stuff from higher end cameras in their line. Continuity.

Then they focused on what 80-85% of their defined market wants. IOW...they didn't build an E-M1X.

Oly made a conscious decision to not meaningfully leverage the advantages of the smaller sensor. And we've been talking about that on the forum for years. I use and love my GM5. And it's replacement is...where?

Doesn't matter much now. My Oly/Pany bodies and lenses will get me thru the foreseeable future. Really too bad, but this outcome was, at some level, preventable.

Life will go on.

Yeah that’s about it

I am going to keep my mFT for awhile, even I have a FF Lumix S1R and APS-C Fujifilm X-Pro2 with 23mm F2.0. It's hard to find a system camera as mFT to cover 14mm to 400mm in a bag. I love mFT, APS-C and FF, and I don't like to have heavy lens on my FF sensor bodies. I do not plan to buy telephoto lenses for my FF bodies.

mring1 wrote:

but that would require knowledgeable discussions about how to compete and JIP doesn't have the skills to do that. More to the point, they don't have any interest in making Oly Imaging a competitor of anyone. Their job is to make as much money as they can by selling off the entity.

As an aside, the new consumer level Nikon Z5 and the little 24-50 is one more reason why Oly Imaging was a dead man walking. Anyone notice the release price for the Z5 and kit lens? Yup...same price as an M1 Mk III without a lens

I know...apples and oranges comparison, right? Sad to say, but dollars speak louder than water resistance.

The RP sells for even less ($1000 body, $1300 with 24-105mm) yet E-M1 III is still selling better at $1700 according to B&H.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-System-Cameras/ci/16158?sort=BEST_SELLERS

Also, even when the E-M1 II launched at $2000, the A7 II was selling for only $1500, A7 only $1000. The E-M1 II was their only visible recent success (coincided with 3 quarters of profit and 1 financial year). Aiming at the lowest price stripped FF and comparing never was the route to profit, and I doubt it'll start being that way either. Panasonic was the biggest competition by far (the G9 at a less expensive price and able to use all the same lenses).

The problem with Olympus isn't "overpriced" cameras. It's unprofitable cameras. It's fine to sell "overpriced" cameras if it made a profit. I see JIP cutting a lot of lines from Olympus and trying to streamline things.

Felice62 wrote:

i'd rather have olympus disappearing than fuji.

Fuji has absolutely nothing for me.  Big rangefinder APS-C cameras?  Overpriced lenses?  Trouble with video and IBIS?  I don't think so.  Nikon, Sony, Canon FF before Fuji.