SD15 Full Spectrum w/ Visible Filter - Street

"Street" around here means dirt and foliage.

BG filter on lens:

Nice diagonal cloud-streets have similar angles to fence and kerb - purely by accident!

End of Days:

Full Spectrum (no filter).

This tree was in bright sunlight but, when I returned with a camera, the sun had gone behind a big cloud. So I was forced to change the composition to a back-lit style, not quite so dramatic.

Advice on how to fix the color in these shots will be cheerfully ignored.

Jeffry7 wrote:

How would you use this look artistically?

I am no artist, perhaps George could butt in ...

... or am I following Warhol?

I guess I am more used to seeing IR in B&W where the value is that different things are illuminated or in shadow. (And that was film so probably other differences as well.)

I haven't tried it any, just seen it in magazines and websites.

This is something else, and I don't see how to use it.

If you don't like faux colors, Jeff, then it's probably not for you.

I used to be an "accurate color" exponent but some scenes are quite boring from a color POV. So, I've been messing around with that recently:

Posted here before ... nothing new

I'm also not very keen on true grayscale renditions of IR stuff - even though IR is technically not color - These days, I prefer to see tinting or color-toning in such images.

xpatUSA wrote:

"Street" around here means dirt and foliage.

BG filter on lens:

Nice diagonal cloud-streets have similar angles to fence and kerb - purely by accident!

While talking elsewhere about RETINEX processing, I took the above, processed it, cranked hue-chroma-lightness in the GIMP and then gave it four coats of USM in FastStone Viewer for a 3-D look:

For 3-D please view original size ...

Not your average Teal & Orange ...

Jeffry7 wrote:

I'm not really an accurate color zealot.

The moon shot demonstrates why you want the faux color. It adds drama.

Thank you!

Is the moon in that image shot in IR?

No it was a shot made here in color a few "super-moons" ago. If memory serves I converted it to grayscale then tinted it in the GIMP. The sky was a much lighter blue in the clouds image and I cranked that down to get a night-sky look. The street more or less as-was color-wise.

Jeffry7 wrote:

The faux color with the green sky help separate the background from the foreground better then the more usual blue and green.

Agreed!

Will this be part of your Trippin' exhibition?

Duh, had to look that up ...

https://trippin.world/feature/trippin-on-35s-45s

?

Jeffry7 wrote:

I had merely meant that the colors were psychedelic, like an acid trip. Trippin was meant as slang for getting high.

Now I get it. I was misled by the capital "T" ...

Hi Ted, was your Custom WB for the FS image taken off a Grey (18%) card? It's interesting to see the differences between the SD15 and Merrill rendering*: Custom WB but the colour mode and tone curve are both designed for natural light; I've presumed that you've used Standard here (gulp, assumptions... ). Would you be willing to share your Custom WB matrix?

It's a very different palette to that of Merrill − unless you've tweaked the colours in post in which case disregard my ramblings 

*judging from my own experiences with Merrill.

tagscuderia wrote:

Hi Ted, was your Custom WB for the FS image taken off a Grey (18%) card? It's interesting to see the differences between the SD15 and Merrill rendering*: Custom WB but the colour mode and tone curve are both designed for natural light; I've presumed that you've used Standard here (gulp, assumptions... ). Would you be willing to share your Custom WB matrix?

It's a very different palette to that of Merrill − unless you've tweaked the colours in post in which case disregard my ramblings

*judging from my own experiences with Merrill.

Sorry, Tom, wrong assumptions.

WB was in Auto because I worked on RawDigger's RGB output:

You can see the original X3F settings here:

Yes, I did lots of extreme post-processing resulting the posted FS image.

HTH

xpatUSA wrote:

tagscuderia wrote:

Hi Ted, was your Custom WB for the FS image taken off a Grey (18%) card? It's interesting to see the differences between the SD15 and Merrill rendering*: Custom WB but the colour mode and tone curve are both designed for natural light; I've presumed that you've used Standard here (gulp, assumptions... ). Would you be willing to share your Custom WB matrix?

It's a very different palette to that of Merrill − unless you've tweaked the colours in post in which case disregard my ramblings

*judging from my own experiences with Merrill.

Sorry, Tom, wrong assumptions.

WB was in Auto because I worked on RawDigger's RGB output:

You can see the original X3F settings here:

Yes, I did lots of extreme post-processing resulting the posted FS image.

HTH

Doh, there goes those assumptions again!

Yeah that matches Merrill with a RAW composite − UFRaw gives you the same starting point, but within a RAW editor, just in case it's useful to you.

And yeah, Auto WB and FS don't mix; making another dangerous assumption that you weren't looking at the world through rose tinted glasses? 

P.S. why not a Custom WB? Just out of curiosity.

tagscuderia wrote:

Yeah that matches Merrill with a RAW composite − UFRaw gives you the same starting point, but within a RAW editor, just in case it's useful to you.

And yeah, Auto WB and FS don't mix; making another dangerous assumption that you weren't looking at the world through rose tinted glasses?

P.S. why not a Custom WB? Just out of curiosity.

WB makes no difference to raw values, Tom, and I convert with RawDigger.

By that token, a RawDigger raw composite export is completely unaffected by the in-camera WB setting; and for the RawDigger RGB export (for that capture) the three RawDigger WB options made very little difference so I left it at "As Shot".

Somehow RawDigger's 'LibRaw' conversion does a much better job than SPP's insane magenta look for full-spectrum shots - I never use SPP for them!

In IR or FS work, I don't understand people's emphasis on WB - especially Custom. Do you?

xpatUSA wrote:

tagscuderia wrote:

Yeah that matches Merrill with a RAW composite − UFRaw gives you the same starting point, but within a RAW editor, just in case it's useful to you.

And yeah, Auto WB and FS don't mix; making another dangerous assumption that you weren't looking at the world through rose tinted glasses?

P.S. why not a Custom WB? Just out of curiosity.

WB makes no difference to raw values, Tom, and I convert with RawDigger.

Yeah I know, I was wondering what the benefits of using a RAW composite are over SPP... ?

By that token, a RawDigger raw composite export is completely unaffected by the in-camera WB setting; and for the RawDigger RGB export (for that capture) the three RawDigger WB options made very little difference so I left it at "As Shot".

Somehow RawDigger's 'LibRaw' conversion does a much better job than SPP's insane magenta look for full-spectrum shots - I never use SPP for them!

LibRaw is producing a straight composite, with zero scaling/gain vs SPP's 3x3 White Balance matrix − the "insane magenta" is because you're using a visible light WB matrix; Auto WB is not tuned for Full Spectrum, NIR or Infrared and seemingly defaults back to Daylight or similar.

In IR or FS work, I don't understand people's emphasis on WB - especially Custom. Do you?

For Infrared, White Balance is pointless but for FS, absolutely! And it has to be Custom because (obviously) none of the presets are going to work... So have you never shot FS with a Custom WB taken off a grey card?

P.S. I wish that SIGMA would support FS properly in SPP, they could have easily added a WB preset and a colour mode (including unique tone curve) for FS 

tagscuderia wrote:

xpatUSA wrote:

tagscuderia wrote:

P.S. why not a Custom WB? Just out of curiosity.

WB makes no difference to raw values, Tom, and I convert with RawDigger.

Yeah I know, I was wondering what the benefits of using a RAW composite are over SPP... ?

For FS, I use RawDigger's RGB export, not raw composite. The RGB export remains superior to SPP 5.5.3 RGB for SD15 shots.

By that token, a RawDigger raw composite export is completely unaffected by the in-camera WB setting; and for the RawDigger RGB export (for that capture) the three RawDigger WB options made very little difference so I left it at "As Shot".

Somehow RawDigger's 'LibRaw' conversion does a much better job than SPP's insane magenta look for full-spectrum shots - I never use SPP for them!

LibRaw is producing a straight composite, with zero scaling/gain vs SPP's 3x3 White Balance matrix

A "straight composite" is not the option that I use. LibRaw in RawDigger also offers an RGB conversion which is what I use. In Preferences, the RawDigger WB selections make little difference to the RGB review image so, again, I leave it 'As Shot'.

− the "insane magenta" is because you're using a visible light WB matrix; Auto WB is not tuned for Full Spectrum, NIR or Infrared and seemingly defaults back to Daylight or similar.

In IR or FS work, I don't understand people's emphasis on WB - especially Custom. Do you?

For Infrared, White Balance is pointless but for FS, absolutely! And it has to be Custom because (obviously) none of the presets are going to work... So have you never shot FS with a Custom WB taken off a grey card?

I don't recall trying with the SD15 but it was rarely successful with the SD14. The SD1M was better at the capture but, when all said and done, the main reflectors of IR came out less red which is not what I'm looking for.

Since you keep pushing Custom WB, Tom, what do you get over shooting with any preset WB and adjusting in post?

Bearing in mind that the SPP "magenta" comes from the green RGB channel being forced to zero, does a Custom WB actually fix that?

xpatUSA wrote:

tagscuderia wrote:

xpatUSA wrote:

tagscuderia wrote:

P.S. why not a Custom WB? Just out of curiosity.

WB makes no difference to raw values, Tom, and I convert with RawDigger.

Yeah I know, I was wondering what the benefits of using a RAW composite are over SPP... ?

For FS, I use RawDigger's RGB export, not raw composite. The RGB export remains superior to SPP 5.5.3 RGB for SD15 shots.

I'm with you now, and curious... that SPP 5.5.3 is inferior.

By that token, a RawDigger raw composite export is completely unaffected by the in-camera WB setting; and for the RawDigger RGB export (for that capture) the three RawDigger WB options made very little difference so I left it at "As Shot".

Somehow RawDigger's 'LibRaw' conversion does a much better job than SPP's insane magenta look for full-spectrum shots - I never use SPP for them!

LibRaw is producing a straight composite, with zero scaling/gain vs SPP's 3x3 White Balance matrix

A "straight composite" is not the option that I use. LibRaw in RawDigger also offers an RGB conversion which is what I use. In Preferences, the RawDigger WB selections make little difference to the RGB review image so, again, I leave it 'As Shot'.

I've replicated the settings on an SD1M shot (and both Auto and Daylight were inferior to 'As Shot,' which I thought was interesting... ?)

− the "insane magenta" is because you're using a visible light WB matrix; Auto WB is not tuned for Full Spectrum, NIR or Infrared and seemingly defaults back to Daylight or similar.

In IR or FS work, I don't understand people's emphasis on WB - especially Custom. Do you?

For Infrared, White Balance is pointless but for FS, absolutely! And it has to be Custom because (obviously) none of the presets are going to work... So have you never shot FS with a Custom WB taken off a grey card?

I don't recall trying with the SD15 but it was rarely successful with the SD14. The SD1M was better at the capture but, when all said and done, the main reflectors of IR came out less red which is not what I'm looking for.

Since you keep pushing Custom WB, Tom, what do you get over shooting with any preset WB and adjusting in post?

I'm not pushing it, I'm simply intrigued that you use and prefer RawDigger − if it's superior, then I'm interested!! And some things are impossible to recover e.g. "insane magenta," even working on a 16-bit ProPhoto TIFF, so a good starting point is necessary i.e. Custom WB.

Bearing in mind that the SPP "magenta" comes from the green RGB channel being forced to zero, does a Custom WB actually fix that?

I predominantly shoot with a B+W 099 infracolour filter, but see below for an FS shot (no critique needed, it was taken to confirm a good Custom WB, nothing else): Left is a default settings SPP export / Middle is RawDigger with 'No profile (raw colour)' / Right is RawDigger with 'Camera profile Embedded in RAW' ...

The 'Camera profile Embedded in RAW' version doesn't appear to have been White Balanced i.e. gain applied to the RAW channels to establish the correct White Point. Otherwise it's a very nice starting point!

The issue that I have with SPP is that there isn't a FS preset, so the colour mode and tone curve are not as I'd like and unadjustable. The right-hand RawDigger export is making me think that it'll be worthwhile to revisit UFRaw − with all of the additional RAW converter tools at our disposal... I'm excited 

P.S. for Infracolour / NIR especially, working on an SPP 16-bit TIFF is an uphill struggle; bring on a 100% RAW workflow! Thanks Ted.

tagscuderia wrote:

xpatUSA wrote:

Since you keep pushing Custom WB, Tom, what do you get over shooting with any preset WB and adjusting in post?

I'm not pushing it, I'm simply intrigued that you use and prefer RawDigger − if it's superior, then I'm interested!! And some things are impossible to recover e.g. "insane magenta," even working on a 16-bit ProPhoto TIFF, so a good starting point is necessary i.e. Custom WB.

While you were typing, so was I:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64179813

Bearing in mind that the SPP "magenta" comes from the green RGB channel being forced to zero, does a Custom WB actually fix that?

Apparently not, according to the above link.

I predominantly shoot with a B+W 099 infracolour filter, but see below for an FS shot (no critique needed, it was taken to confirm a good Custom WB, nothing else): Left is a default settings SPP export / Middle is RawDigger with 'No profile (raw colour)' / Right is RawDigger with 'Camera profile Embedded in RAW' ...

The 'Camera profile Embedded in RAW' version doesn't appear to have been White Balanced i.e. gain applied to the RAW channels to establish the correct White Point. Otherwise it's a very nice starting point!

The issue that I have with SPP is that there isn't a FS preset, so the colour mode and tone curve are not as I'd like and unadjustable. The right-hand RawDigger export is making me think that it'll be worthwhile to revisit UFRaw − with all of the additional RAW converter tools at our disposal... I'm excited

P.S. for Infracolour / NIR especially, working on an SPP 16-bit TIFF is an uphill struggle; bring on a 100% RAW workflow! Thanks Ted.

You're most welcome, Tom. I would be interested in any further work with RawDigger, of course.