Helios 44-2 focuses past infinity?

[MacAckAttack]

I got a helios 44-2 that came with a m42 - sony E adapter. Something I've noticed is how the infinity focus point is around 3.5. Go any further and it starts going out of focus again. It has the numbers 4, 6, .20 & infinity left on the focus dial to keep on going.

I'm guessing because of this, it cannot focus as close as the lens is capable of. Is there a m42 adapter that has the right focus points, or is it just part of the territory of adapting lenses and there is not much you can do about it?

 

[Inukim]

I got a helios 44-2 that came with a m42 - sony E adapter. Something I've noticed is how the infinity focus point is around 3.5. Go any further and it starts going out of focus again. It has the numbers 4, 6, .20 & infinity left on the focus dial to keep on going.

I'm guessing because of this, it cannot focus as close as the lens is capable of. Is there a m42 adapter that has the right focus points, or is it just part of the territory of adapting lenses and there is not much you can do about it?

Most adapters I have encountered are deliberately made short so that infinity focus is guaranteed (as long as you have a simple adapter, aka not any special adapters like helicoid adapters or even focal reducers).

However, it looks as though someone has tampered with your copy of the Helios and did not properly calibrate the distance scale because the scale is so far off. It is true that you are not getting as close as it should. This is why I would not blame the adapter yet, but the lens. If you have a old m42 camera, or even a Pentax SLR with a m42 to K-mount adapter you can check if the scale is off.

 

[aidaho]

However, it looks as though someone has tampered with your copy of the Helios and did not properly calibrate the distance scale because the scale is so far off. It is true that you are not getting as close as it should. This is why I would not blame the adapter yet, but the lens. If you have a old m42 camera, or even a Pentax SLR with a m42 to K-mount adapter you can check if the scale is off.

Not necessarily tampered with. M42 -> Sony E adapters are notoriously bad.

I've had one which was pretty much the same and the lens I've mounted on it was fine-tuned by me on the proper adapter.

TL;DR: buy Fotga M42. They are a touch heavier, but the length is both consistent and correct.

 

[MacAckAttack]

TL;DR: buy Fotga M42. They are a touch heavier, but the length is both consistent and correct.

Aha, this was the kind of recommendation I was looking for. Thanks man

Somewhat surprising its not on amazon prime although

 

[aidaho]

Aha, this was the kind of recommendation I was looking for. Thanks man

No problem. Though be aware: Fotga doesn't have a lip for pressing in a stop-down pin.

44-2 doesn't have one anyway, but other lenses often do, and for lenses without A/M switch to work on non-lipped adapter one has to permanently stop down aperture pin, through a (usually) simple modification.

 

[Lightshow]

I got a helios 44-2 that came with a m42 - sony E adapter. Something I've noticed is how the infinity focus point is around 3.5. Go any further and it starts going out of focus again.

First question, is the focus distance and indicated distance the same? Sounds like it isn't.

It has the numbers 4, 6, .20 & infinity left on the focus dial to keep on going.

2nd question, does the focus stop at the infinity symbol? If it does, then the lens or adapter will require a shim.

I'm guessing because of this, it cannot focus as close as the lens is capable of. Is there a m42 adapter that has the right focus points, or is it just part of the territory of adapting lenses and there is not much you can do about it?

If you can focus past infinity, you are definitely losing some close focus range.

To shim the lens/adapter you'll need to figure out the thickness you need, if you have access to a set of calipers, focus the lens so that infinity is sharp, measure the length of the lens, then turn the focus ring to the infinity stop and measure it again, the difference is your shim thickness, you can estimate it and do the trial and error method if you don't have calipers.

44-2 lenses have a shim ring between the helicoid and optical block from the factory, your's may be missing,

You can see the shim in this pic, the optical block unscrews from the helicoid quite easily.



or it could be the adapter is the culprit, you could measure the adapter thickness/length to see how accurate it is, they are typically to short/thin on purpose, but QC tolerance may add to that error, if the adapter is out, you can shim them if the mount invert is held in with set screws(typically 3), some adapters are solid and you can't shim them easily.

--
A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/
[My Lens list](http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/viewprofile.php?Action=viewprofile&username=LightShow)
####Where's my FF NEX-7 ?????

https://flic.kr/p/Q2b9mq

https://flic.kr/p/PgwEjs

Firmware request:
-A button map for toggling the EVF & LCD
-Still waiting for the minimum shutter speed with auto ISO for my NEX-7 and A7r. I know it will never happen.
-Customize the display screen layout, I'd love to have both Histogram and level at the same time.
-More peaking options, being able to set peaking sensitivity and a threshold level.
-An RGB overlay on the histogram

https://flic.kr/p/wQd7zp

-An option to return the focus assist zoom to one button press
-An option to return to how the NEX-7 handled playback, ie. center button to zoom, then you could use the control dial to zoom in and out, then center button to exit the zoom mode.

 

[Inukim]

However, it looks as though someone has tampered with your copy of the Helios and did not properly calibrate the distance scale because the scale is so far off. It is true that you are not getting as close as it should. This is why I would not blame the adapter yet, but the lens. If you have a old m42 camera, or even a Pentax SLR with a m42 to K-mount adapter you can check if the scale is off.

Not necessarily tampered with. M42 -> Sony E adapters are notoriously bad.

I've had one which was pretty much the same and the lens I've mounted on it was fine-tuned by me on the proper adapter.

TL;DR: buy Fotga M42. They are a touch heavier, but the length is both consistent and correct.

If you consider how far off the OP's lens is, its far likely that the lens is the issue.

As far as Fotga goes, I have had 3 of their adapters and two were manufactured poorly. PK-NEX adapter had light leaks and the m42-NEX had casting burs all over the place. The only one that was made nicely was the FD-NEX adapter.

If I were to buy a adapter, K&F Concept would be my choice.

 

[ProfHankD]

I got a helios 44-2 that came with a m42 - sony E adapter. Something I've noticed is how the infinity focus point is around 3.5. Go any further and it starts going out of focus again. It has the numbers 4, 6, .20 & infinity left on the focus dial to keep on going.

I'm guessing because of this, it cannot focus as close as the lens is capable of. Is there a m42 adapter that has the right focus points, or is it just part of the territory of adapting lenses and there is not much you can do about it?

M42 adapts to most camera mounts, but can't focus to infinity on Nikon F mount. My guess is that somebody shifted the lens back internally to allow infinity focus on a Nikon F mount body. This is not a rare thing to see done.

It's also possible that your adapter is short, but the amount you describe sounds more like what you'd get readjusting for a Nikon F....

In any case, even that shift doesn't hurt much. Focus movement is log, not linear, so even that big a shift doesn't change your close focus all that much. Also, the Helios 44-2 is a unit-focusing lens, so there's no issue from floating elements failing to correct due to the rear focus being wrong.

 

[MacAckAttack]

So I measured the difference between the infinity focus point and where the lens stops. It looks like the difference is only 1mm with my measurements with digital calipers. That wouldn't surprise me if an adapter was off by that much. I had to readjust the rotation of the adapter so the lens would show it's aperture and focus scale at the top vs the bottom after all.

The lens came straight from the Ukraine, so I'm not quite sure if they would of bothered to do a Nikon F focus mod when I've heard there are literally millions of these lenses there. Although it looks like the lens has some restoration work on it.

Lens does stop rotating at it's marked infinity point

Current infinity focus point. As you see the lens doesn't move much in between the two.

Lens has some 'restoration' work done on it looks like. I scratched off some of the restoration paint to see if it was tape or actual paint.

 

[ProfHankD]

So I measured the difference between the infinity focus point and where the lens stops. It looks like the difference is only 1mm with my measurements with digital calipers. That wouldn't surprise me if an adapter was off by that much. I had to readjust the rotation of the adapter so the lens would show it's aperture and focus scale at the top vs the bottom after all.

1mm is a lot for an adapter to be off. I've never had one that bad. Then again, who knows what the history of the adapter is?

The lens came straight from the Ukraine, so I'm not quite sure if they would of bothered to do a Nikon F focus mod when I've heard there are literally millions of these lenses there. Although it looks like the lens has some restoration work on it.

M42 is 45.46mm rear focus and Nikon F is 46.50mm... but you'd usually have at least another 1mm or so for the thin M42-to-F adapter. Very possible it's a "frankenlens" that was just put together from parts of several donor lenses -- lots of lenses rebuilt from parts in the former USSR. In any case, reassembly after cleaning often leaves things a bit off.

I'd just try another M42 adapter or a different lens on this adapter to resolve the issue.

 

[Lightshow]

So I measured the difference between the infinity focus point and where the lens stops. It looks like the difference is only 1mm with my measurements with digital calipers.

Shimming the adapter 1mm shouldn't be too hard, I use aluminum foil duct tape.

Remove the insert that you rotated add 2-3 layers of foil, the glue holds it in position, you only need a shim in the small section where the set screws are.

That wouldn't surprise me if an adapter was off by that much. I had to readjust the rotation of the adapter so the lens would show it's aperture and focus scale at the top vs the bottom after all.

1mm is a lot for an adapter to be off. I've never had one that bad.

I have, between the built in guarantee of infinity and wear on the CNC tool I've seen everything between not reaching infinity @ +0.5mm to about -1.5mm, I guess that's what $20 adapter will get you.

My FD adapter took 4 layers of foil tape to reach infinity.

Then again, who knows what the history of the adapter is?

The lens came straight from the Ukraine, so I'm not quite sure if they would of bothered to do a Nikon F focus mod when I've heard there are literally millions of these lenses there.

They typically don't, but I have seen them on eBay.

Although it looks like the lens has some restoration work on it.

They do often regrease them before selling/shipping them with what ever grease is handy.

M42 is 45.46mm rear focus and Nikon F is 46.50mm... but you'd usually have at least another 1mm or so for the thin M42-to-F adapter. Very possible it's a "frankenlens" that was just put together from parts of several donor lenses -- lots of lenses rebuilt from parts in the former USSR. In any case, reassembly after cleaning often leaves things a bit off.

These days who knows what they are doing to lenses to get sales, stripping the paint and polishing them to a mirror finish, changing the aperture shape, adding an aperture blade between each aperture blade(8 blade becomes 16 blade)....

I'd just try another M42 adapter or a different lens on this adapter to resolve the issue.

--
A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/
[My Lens list](http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/viewprofile.php?Action=viewprofile&username=LightShow)
####Where's my FF NEX-7 ?????

https://flic.kr/p/Q2b9mq

https://flic.kr/p/PgwEjs

Firmware request:
-A button map for toggling the EVF & LCD
-Still waiting for the minimum shutter speed with auto ISO for my NEX-7 and A7r. I know it will never happen.
-Customize the display screen layout, I'd love to have both Histogram and level at the same time.
-More peaking options, being able to set peaking sensitivity and a threshold level.
-An RGB overlay on the histogram

https://flic.kr/p/wQd7zp

-An option to return the focus assist zoom to one button press
-An option to return to how the NEX-7 handled playback, ie. center button to zoom, then you could use the control dial to zoom in and out, then center button to exit the zoom mode.

 

[MacAckAttack]

I would hope they didn't spend that much time to restore a $35 + $15 shipping lens . It would be kind of crazy if they did.

This has all been pretty helpful! I ordered the Fotga M42 yesterday, so I'm gonna try that first and then try all of your guy's other tips if it doesn't work.

 

[aidaho]

If you consider how far off the OP's lens is, its far likely that the lens is the issue.

I'm going to say this again: I had an adapter that put infinity at 3m mark. Yes, it was that short.

As far as Fotga goes, I have had 3 of their adapters and two were manufactured poorly. PK-NEX adapter had light leaks and the m42-NEX had casting burs all over the place. The only one that was made nicely was the FD-NEX adapter.

I have three M42-NEX. All are correct.

Their FD-NEX is indeed the lightest one, and can be easily modified into a sane double-twist system.

No experience with PK.

If I were to buy a adapter, K&F Concept would be my choice.

Overhyped shiny hunk of metal. I've never seen heavier adapter series.

Some of those are clocking as much as helicoid adapters.

--
I like to shoot with manual lenses. Here are some of my photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/

 

[ProfHankD]

So I measured the difference between the infinity focus point and where the lens stops. It looks like the difference is only 1mm with my measurements with digital calipers.

Shimming the adapter 1mm shouldn't be too hard, I use aluminum foil duct tape.

Remove the insert that you rotated add 2-3 layers of foil, the glue holds it in position, you only need a shim in the small section where the set screws are.

I also like aluminum duct tape as thick shim material (and scotch tape for thin).

Certainly, that is a quick and precise fix.

 

[Inukim]

If you consider how far off the OP's lens is, its far likely that the lens is the issue.

I'm going to say this again: I had an adapter that put infinity at 3m mark. Yes, it was that short.

Yes, I heard you the first time. It doesn't mean you are correct. We will only tell when the OP gets back to us with his new adapter.

As far as Fotga goes, I have had 3 of their adapters and two were manufactured poorly. PK-NEX adapter had light leaks and the m42-NEX had casting burs all over the place. The only one that was made nicely was the FD-NEX adapter.

I have three M42-NEX. All are correct.

Their FD-NEX is indeed the lightest one, and can be easily modified into a sane double-twist system.

No experience with PK.

If I were to buy a adapter, K&F Concept would be my choice.

Overhyped shiny hunk of metal. I've never seen heavier adapter series.

Some of those are clocking as much as helicoid adapters.

Here's my opinion on Fotga adapters. You may take it with a grain of salt.

The two that failed were cast pot metal junk. They were overly heavy and thick had typical imperfections seen in a metal casting process. Some of that casting was the reason why there were light leaks. The bayonet mount couldn't been have been secured tightly because there were large burrs in the way causing a gap where light can enter. The Fotga FD-NEX was the only one that was milled from the looks at the inner barrel. The K&F Concept adapters I have owned (2) are milled and not overly heavy. Could have I got a bad batch? Maybe, but 2 out of 3 doesn't leave a good taste in your mouth and would definitely not want to recommend it to others.

 

[Travis Butler]

Here's my opinion on Fotga adapters. You may take it with a grain of salt.

The two that failed were cast pot metal junk. They were overly heavy and thick had typical imperfections seen in a metal casting process. Some of that casting was the reason why there were light leaks. The bayonet mount couldn't been have been secured tightly because there were large burrs in the way causing a gap where light can enter. The Fotga FD-NEX was the only one that was milled from the looks at the inner barrel. The K&F Concept adapters I have owned (2) are milled and not overly heavy. Could have I got a bad batch? Maybe, but 2 out of 3 doesn't leave a good taste in your mouth and would definitely not want to recommend it to others.

FWIW, Fotga is on my crap list after the locking mechanism screwed up on a M4/3-Konica AR adapter; the lock jammed and it was a huge pain getting the lens off.

 

[MacAckAttack]

The new fotga adapter came in, and I'm happy to say that it focus right on infinity without any mods needed! It feels a little bit nicer than my no name adapter that came with the lens. I still had to adjust it's rotation angle although so the focus & aperture indicator would face the top vs the side. I wonder why I've had to do that for 2/2 adapters so far.

Thanks for all the help guys!