R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

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LesT
LesT Regular Member • Posts: 246
R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses
1

Just did the pre-order of an R5. My present setup is the 5D Mk IV with all the L's. My go to always has been the 28-300 F4.5 and it increases my arm strength significantly to this day, although I still have alot of fun with the 16-35L.

My question is such that I am wondering how many of the new cameras features are reliant on the newly announced RF lenses and will be lost in the great collection of EF lenses that I cherish. I am curious about how in-body stabilization will work alongside of that of the lenses. Will any of the sensor abilities be lessened focusing through an adapter and EF lens?  Will IBIS work with the EF lenses?  Am I just panisking a bit?

Am I going to find myself having an L lens garage sale and taking out loans for the newer lenses?

Thanks ahead all. Included one of my shots just for the fun of it. One of my track days. I get out there for some fun as well.

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David Franklin Senior Member • Posts: 1,323
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses
2

Sorry to have no answer, but I do think it's an excellent question.

For instance, does the IBIS in the R5/6 work with EF lenses at all? If so, not as well? Then, just how much and how so? Also, what about the speed of focusing, accuracy of eye/head/people/animal focus and tracking ability. For instance, I plan to get at least the R5. But I'd like to keep at least many of my EF L lenses, especially if they work with most of the new R features. Let's say they work at an effective rate of 80% of the effectiveness of RF lens counterparts. Then, I'd probably keep at least half of my EF's. If it's not that good a number, then who knows what I'd do at this point. I need some clarity to make plans important to my business interests. I wonder if canon will ever quantify such things, especially if it might negatively affect the sales of Rf lenses.

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 17,285
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

No IBIS on EF glass could be a deal breaker. We will have to see but that is something I'm a little worried about.

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gavin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,466
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

The IBIS should work with any lens. It will work better with RF lens.

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Paul JM Contributing Member • Posts: 606
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

gavin wrote:

The IBIS should work with any lens. It will work better with RF lens.

Should

but is this a well intentioned guess or do you have clear evidence ?

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

sportyaccordy wrote:

No IBIS on EF glass could be a deal breaker. We will have to see but that is something I'm a little worried about.

I saw reviews on Youtube I think that said IBIS works on all glass but it has the most influence for the wide angle glass and has less impact above 150mm.

I have EOS R and I can say if you love your L glass (and I love lots mine) it work exactly the same on your R5 camera only a little better due to IBIS at the wider angles if the reviewer is right. I never fully trust the first wave of reviews but I was convinced enough to preorder an R5 myself today.

Another reviewer said the R5 resolution is better than the EOS 5DD R 50MP which has more pixels than the R5 but the anti aliasing filter in the 45MP R5 is newer technology that is better than earlier tech in the 5DSR.

I like to crop and cropping is big deal in taking pictures of fast moving things. For me this means I like FF sensors with lots of pixels resolution for good result when taking pictures of little things far away without unnecessarily using the biggest heaviest of lenses.

I have more 20 "L" EF lenses of all types. I used with the 7D and 5D mk IV. I planned to to use my exist glass with EOS R and over the past year I used much of L glass.

After I got the EOS R I got the RF 15-35mm and the RF 24-70mm even though I have the similar EF "L" versions of too. These are my core focal lengths I use for my most important pictures and I thing RF glass though is better though I still have the EF lenses to use with my 5D as a backup camera. I love the 5D and I love those lenses. The EOS R is better at auto focus so it has become my primary camera except for sports/action shooting.

I do use the EOS R as my travel camera and I use the RF 24-240 lens which not L glass but i think it is amazing lens not too different from your 28-300 L but it is a little smaller and weights less. I did not ever have a 28-300mm L but I did own get in 1990s an EF 35-350mm which owned and loved until recently.

The  EF 35-350L ,which I loved for it's versatility, had the push-pull  action for the zoom ring.  I always disliked the push pull and found it harder to control so I sold it to get the cheaper RF 24-240mm non-L for the EOS R and I have found it to be a great lens that is smaller and lighter making it convenient for travelling or hiking.

So yes you can continue use all of L glass have and it will continue to work the same on the R5 using the adapters. I think I have seven adapters not with only three of them the Canon brand. A found the after market adapters for most things are good as the twice as expensive Canon brand. However, on one of Sigma telephoto lenses that I have the Canon adapter fits better.

My other EF mount lenses from Sigma, Tamron as well as my non L EF glass work well with the EOS R too.

I have no experience yet with the R5 but I would guess you will continue to use most of your existing L glass and, like me, you may add a few additions over time in the RF line of glass. I have no plans to buy an more RF glass or to get rid of my existing L glass.

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Terry Danks Regular Member • Posts: 123
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

Yes EF IS lenses do work well with and benefit from IBIS. See 04:56 of this video.

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gavin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,466
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

Occam's razor. The simplest explanation vs worrying about sky falling. Anyways just wait a bit and it will be clear.

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Paul JM Contributing Member • Posts: 606
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses
1

gavin wrote:

Occam's razor. The simplest explanation vs worrying about sky falling. Anyways just wait a bit and it will be clear.

Thats not Occam's razor. That is just some bloke spouting facts on a photography forum when he really has no idea what he is talking about. As they say, liberated by complete ignorance to speak with authority on any topic

Just the sort of thing that condemns these forums to be 95% useless for seeking fact

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rodriguezPhoto
rodriguezPhoto Veteran Member • Posts: 3,082
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses
2

In the Q&A at B&H yesterday Rudy Winston from Canon addressed it pretty clearly.  It starts at about 49:30 into the  video .

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 17,285
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

For those who don't want to dig, yes, IBIS will work with EF glass.

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TheDigitalDonbavand Contributing Member • Posts: 815
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

rodriguezPhoto wrote:

In the Q&A at B&H yesterday Rudy Winston from Canon addressed it pretty clearly. It starts at about 49:30 into the video .

Thank you this is very clear.  To save watching the video:

EF/EF-S lens without IS, the camera will let you choose whether to activate or inactivate the IBIS.

EF-EF-S lens with IS, the switch on the lens will turn on or off stabilisation.  On will use lens IS and IBIS together, off turns them off (there is no option to turn lens IS on and IBIS off, they work together or not at all).

This is really exciting, always wanted my 40mm f2.8 to be stabilised.  Less exciting is the price of the R5.  Expect lots of older EF lenses prices to go up lol.  Should have got an 85 1.8 when they were cheap...

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 17,285
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

I think EF lens prices will stay depressed for a few reasons. One, some of them are just old. IIRC the EF 85 1.8 came out in 1987. So the new one will have over 3 decades of lens design/manufacturing improvements at its disposal. And uses ones may very well be over 30 years old, which is a gamble with electronics. Canon may drop EF retail prices down even further, putting more pressure on used prices. Etc. etc.

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: R5 Question Regarding RF and EF Lenses

TheDigitalDonbavand wrote:

rodriguezPhoto wrote:

In the Q&A at B&H yesterday Rudy Winston from Canon addressed it pretty clearly. It starts at about 49:30 into the video .

Thank you this is very clear. To save watching the video:

EF/EF-S lens without IS, the camera will let you choose whether to activate or inactivate the IBIS.

EF-EF-S lens with IS, the switch on the lens will turn on or off stabilisation. On will use lens IS and IBIS together, off turns them off (there is no option to turn lens IS on and IBIS off, they work together or not at all).

This is really exciting, always wanted my 40mm f2.8 to be stabilised. Less exciting is the price of the R5. Expect lots of older EF lenses prices to go up lol. Should have got an 85 1.8 when they were cheap...

I assume the Sigma ART lenses like the 35mm and 50mm with EF mount will work with IBIS too? The video is very convincing to me for working with my Canon EF and EF-S lenses both IS and not IS. Not all RF or EF glass works to 8 stops. My RF 24-240mm IS is described at 5 1/2 stops but without IBIS it was close to 5 stops. Wide angles are more affected by IBIS than long telephotos.

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David Franklin Senior Member • Posts: 1,323
Thanks but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6

Thanks to all of you who have answered the OT's and my questions about the new RF cams and IBIS with EF lenses, but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6.

My additional questions revolve mostly around this: do the EF lenses, using the new Dual Pixel 2 and Digic X, plus improved algorithms with deep learning in the R5 and R6, auto focus as quickly, as accurately and specifically (eye, head body, animal, etc.), and with the same much improved stickiness - despite movement and foreground/background clutter and greater subject distance - as their new RF cousins? And if they don't, just how much less well do they perform? Half as much better? 25%? Almost as much? Not at all? Are the new camera mounts, in-lens circuitry and drives in the RF lenses necessary for communications that enable these things at all or do a lot of these better focusing behaviors still accrue to the EF lenses anyway? I think these questions are even more important than those questions about IBIS.

Thanks in advance to anyone here who has some real answers and can let the rest of us know.

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R5D4
R5D4 Contributing Member • Posts: 778
Re: Thanks but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6

David Franklin wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have answered the OT's and my questions about the new RF cams and IBIS with EF lenses, but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6.

My additional questions revolve mostly around this: do the EF lenses, using the new Dual Pixel 2 and Digic X, plus improved algorithms with deep learning in the R5 and R6, auto focus as quickly, as accurately and specifically (eye, head body, animal, etc.), and with the same much improved stickiness - despite movement and foreground/background clutter and greater subject distance - as their new RF cousins? And if they don't, just how much less well do they perform? Half as much better? 25%? Almost as much? Not at all? Are the new camera mounts, in-lens circuitry and drives in the RF lenses necessary for communications that enable these things at all or do a lot of these better focusing behaviors still accrue to the EF lenses anyway? I think these questions are even more important than those questions about IBIS.

Thanks in advance to anyone here who has some real answers and can let the rest of us know.

I can’t answer those questions directly, but there are some things to know about RF glass in this video, which is about a year old

https://youtu.be/EDBdFjYfev4

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R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,129
Re: Thanks but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6

David Franklin wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have answered the OT's and my questions about the new RF cams and IBIS with EF lenses, but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6.

My additional questions revolve mostly around this: do the EF lenses, using the new Dual Pixel 2 and Digic X, plus improved algorithms with deep learning in the R5 and R6, auto focus as quickly, as accurately and specifically (eye, head body, animal, etc.), and with the same much improved stickiness - despite movement and foreground/background clutter and greater subject distance - as their new RF cousins? And if they don't, just how much less well do they perform? Half as much better? 25%? Almost as much? Not at all? Are the new camera mounts, in-lens circuitry and drives in the RF lenses necessary for communications that enable these things at all or do a lot of these better focusing behaviors still accrue to the EF lenses anyway? I think these questions are even more important than those questions about IBIS.

Thanks in advance to anyone here who has some real answers and can let the rest of us know.

+1 My thoughts exactly. Not only IBIS, but AF too.

Because for me it really comes down to whether or not I'd also need to buy the new 100-500 to replace my 100-400ii + 1.4x iii to get all those wonderful AF goodies found in the new R5/6 (and  at the same effectiveness).

R2

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: Thanks but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6

R2D2 wrote:

David Franklin wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have answered the OT's and my questions about the new RF cams and IBIS with EF lenses, but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6.

My additional questions revolve mostly around this: do the EF lenses, using the new Dual Pixel 2 and Digic X, plus improved algorithms with deep learning in the R5 and R6, auto focus as quickly, as accurately and specifically (eye, head body, animal, etc.), and with the same much improved stickiness - despite movement and foreground/background clutter and greater subject distance - as their new RF cousins? And if they don't, just how much less well do they perform? Half as much better? 25%? Almost as much? Not at all? Are the new camera mounts, in-lens circuitry and drives in the RF lenses necessary for communications that enable these things at all or do a lot of these better focusing behaviors still accrue to the EF lenses anyway? I think these questions are even more important than those questions about IBIS.

Thanks in advance to anyone here who has some real answers and can let the rest of us know.

+1 My thoughts exactly. Not only IBIS, but AF too.

Because for me it really comes down to whether or not I'd also need to buy the new 100-500 to replace my 100-400ii + 1.4x iii to get all those wonderful AF goodies found in the new R5/6 (and at the same effectiveness).

R2

No one is likely to give a satisfying or accurate answer to question.  Only careful testing of the AFII on the R5 or R6 will reveal that for the EF lenses tested.   No one can guarantee it will work on third party lenses either. Lot of unknowns here.   We do know that 8 stops of stabilization does not work equally well for all Canon RF lenses. Some are a little less and non L RF lenses are reported by Canon to be 5 1/2 stops  (24-240.

We have to wait for user feedback about AFII using  specific RF and EF and third party lenses on specific type of subjects and what they focus on and what type performance they give.  The answer will not be black or white but hint at whether the tester happy with what he got or not and that will also depend on the tester.

I have a biggest enough confidence and need to justify my preorder or R5 and others will be different and wait for the reviews to trickle in over the next year or until the Christmas sales.   If the cameras are selling well then the first Christmas savings may be less the second Christmas.  Such has been the way of every big camera announce before.  All of those earlier cameras had limitations in the end and I pretty sure these will too.

Independent user feedback will help but to trust it get your answers from mutiple sources may take six months or more. The EOS R is now almost two years old and we know from the forums pretty well what people think.

I for one think the EOS 100-400mmL ii will work pretty much like the EOS 100-500mmL and in fact it might even work a little better than particular lens comparison because I expect they both are excellent lenses creating good images but the 100-400mm is likely brighter at 400mm than is the RF 100-500mm lens.   However, I do know what the f number of the f number of the RF lens actually is at 400mm despite the speculations that are widespread on the Internet.  Canon has not published this speculation.

If you are concerned about this issue then wait for more independent data.  I am not concerned and I expect my EF to AFII work very well but maybe not all will be that way.   Then I will buy what better.  I suspect not all the RF lenses will perform as well as the best ones. New lenses may come out to work better.

I am nor indifferent to this question about AFII and I know the AF will not always work as well as it is shown in the demo video we have seen.  I will learn about the system limitations by using for type of shooting and I know the R5 should better than my current EOS R which is better than my EOS 5D Mk IV.    What that means today is based on prior experience with Canon products and it is also part guess.  I know that devil is always in the details and we do not yet have some those details   I now have a lot of experience from using the EOS R first hand for around a year.

It is safer to wait for independent testing, by owners and reviewers. I wish you luck.

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stevvi Contributing Member • Posts: 667
Re: Thanks but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6

David Franklin wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have answered the OT's and my questions about the new RF cams and IBIS with EF lenses, but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6.

My additional questions revolve mostly around this: do the EF lenses, using the new Dual Pixel 2 and Digic X, plus improved algorithms with deep learning in the R5 and R6, auto focus as quickly, as accurately and specifically (eye, head body, animal, etc.), and with the same much improved stickiness - despite movement and foreground/background clutter and greater subject distance - as their new RF cousins? And if they don't, just how much less well do they perform? Half as much better? 25%? Almost as much? Not at all? Are the new camera mounts, in-lens circuitry and drives in the RF lenses necessary for communications that enable these things at all or do a lot of these better focusing behaviors still accrue to the EF lenses anyway? I think these questions are even more important than those questions about IBIS.

Thanks in advance to anyone here who has some real answers and can let the rest of us know.

This was posted in another thread by some kind person. Go to 1:48:00 and you'll find the answer you want... but basically yes, AF works just as well on EF as it does RF according to Canon.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/canon-eos-r5-and-r6?s=2#paragraph-20701

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: Thanks but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6

stevvi wrote:

David Franklin wrote:

Thanks to all of you who have answered the OT's and my questions about the new RF cams and IBIS with EF lenses, but not everything has been answered about EF and the R5/R6.

My additional questions revolve mostly around this: do the EF lenses, using the new Dual Pixel 2 and Digic X, plus improved algorithms with deep learning in the R5 and R6, auto focus as quickly, as accurately and specifically (eye, head body, animal, etc.), and with the same much improved stickiness - despite movement and foreground/background clutter and greater subject distance - as their new RF cousins? And if they don't, just how much less well do they perform? Half as much better? 25%? Almost as much? Not at all? Are the new camera mounts, in-lens circuitry and drives in the RF lenses necessary for communications that enable these things at all or do a lot of these better focusing behaviors still accrue to the EF lenses anyway? I think these questions are even more important than those questions about IBIS.

Thanks in advance to anyone here who has some real answers and can let the rest of us know.

This was posted in another thread by some kind person. Go to 1:48:00 and you'll find the answer you want... but basically yes, AF works just as well on EF as it does RF according to Canon.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/canon-eos-r5-and-r6?s=2#paragraph-20701

WOW! Stevvi you are absolutely right that is one great quote and video in that link at https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/canon-eos-r5-and-r6?s=2#paragraph-20701

I love at 1:48 where Rudy from Canon says EF and RF lenses will work with RF and EF equally well!! He says IBIS will work better with the RF lens than EF due to the better communications bus but IBIS still improve EF lenses but not to the same level as IBIS improves RF lenses. Rudy seems very straight forward in his statement but he gives no data about specific lenses and details.

This is video with Rudy is full of answers and I am going to play it couple of times for everything he said to sink in. Rudy is full of bold and clear statements.

Rudy was on fire and on a roll so they extended the session a half hour more than planned to drain Rudy of all his opinions. The presenters are Canon biased and some are Canon employees but I still like hearing all of their pitches for how great the cameras are as they give many technical specifics are are interesting to think about. It is really a great video that on first viewing skipped many of the parts not knowing the gems it offers and what I missed the first time. I will go thorough the entire video a few times since there are many good parts especially the parts including Rudy.

Stevvi. Thank you again for posting and sharing this video.

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