Sony full frame advice

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Polemica New Member • Posts: 3
Sony full frame advice
1

Hi guys

I need your help choosing a new camera. I started taking pictures three years ago with a panasonic mft entry level mirrorless and now i want to step up my photo with a full frame camera. I'm not a professional photographer but i love taking portrait photo, so for this reason i want to switch to full frame for the sweet bokeh and low light performance.

I have a budget of 1500-1800 € (1500 is better of course). With this price range in mind i selected four different setup (all prices are from a local camera shop, i'd prefer to not buy from amazon or online seller):

  • Sony A7 m2 with 28-70 kit (1017 €) + another lens (a 50 mm maybe?). What lens do you recomend?
  • Sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + Tamron 28-75 f2.8 (806€)
  • sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + possibly two other lenses (i hve no idea what lenses fit the budget, so i'm asking you)
  • Sony A7 m3 with 28-70 kit ( 2084 €) this option implies selling a kidney for the extra cash

If you have other suggestion or doubt feel free to let me know, thanks in advance fof your anwers!

Sony a7
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techie takes pics Senior Member • Posts: 1,144
Re: Sony full frame advice
1

Or an Olympus 45 f1.2 Pro, for all that sweet bokeh?

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You don't need a new camera, you need a new lens.

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Alex Ethridge
Alex Ethridge Veteran Member • Posts: 4,994
Re: Sony full frame advice

I can't address much of what you ask but I got the A7 III last December. I had considered the A7R IV but decided I didn't want to deal with the larger files, in post or in the extra storage space. I regret that now as I have since upgraded my computer from i7 4th gen and 8 Gigs of RAM to i7 9th gen and 64 Gigs of RAM.  Also, long-term storage isn't really a problem with magnetic media being so inexpensive these days.

I chose the Sony 24-105mm G lens for its wider range/longer reach and because my subjects are almost always family gatherings and other events and some architecture and sometimes landscapes.  I almost never use apertures larger than f/4 and when I do, I don't like the shallow field of focus. When I do portraits, I use my m43 (GH5).

By the way, the difference between 28mm and 24mm is pronounced.

As for the f/4 of the 24-105mm, out-of-focus backgrounds can always be produced in post.

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Forum Pro • Posts: 12,601
MFT primes instead.

Polemica wrote:

Hi guys

I need your help choosing a new camera. I started taking pictures three years ago with a panasonic mft entry level mirrorless and now i want to step up my photo with a full frame camera. I'm not a professional photographer but i love taking portrait photo, so for this reason i want to switch to full frame for the sweet bokeh and low light performance.

I am a corporate event & portrait pro shooting both MFT and Sony a7III/a7RIII, and have done a lot of my work over the past 6 years with MFT bodies with f1.7, f1.8 & f2.0 primes. A 42.5/1.7 or 45/1.8 can make excellent portraits with nicely blurred backgrounds. A 75/1.8 is also excellent, though you need more distance from your subject. For corporate headshots I use a 35-100/2.8 at f2.8 or f4 for sufficient DoF to keep the tip of the nose and the eyes in focus.

I have a budget of 1500-1800 € (1500 is better of course). With this price range in mind i selected four different setup (all prices are from a local camera shop, i'd prefer to not buy from amazon or online seller):

  • Sony A7 m2 with 28-70 kit (1017 €) + another lens (a 50 mm maybe?). What lens do you recomend?

The a7II has an ancient sensor that's not particularly good in terms of noise at high ISO. a7RII is another story - very close to a7RIII in terms of IQ. In fact, it has the same sensor as the a7RIII.

A modern MFT camera with f1.7 prime will deliver cleaner images in low light than an a7II with f2.8 zoom.

  • Sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + Tamron 28-75 f2.8 (806€)

I wouldn't.

  • sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + possibly two other lenses (i hve no idea what lenses fit the budget, so i'm asking you)

I wouldn't.

  • Sony A7 m3 with 28-70 kit ( 2084 €) this option implies selling a kidney for the extra cash

Sony's 28-70/3.5-5.6 kit zoom is a dog - very soft anywhere away from the center, even stopped down. It's a waste of a good camera.

If you have other suggestion or doubt feel free to let me know, thanks in advance fof your anwers!

How about an a7RII (possibly used or refurbished) with Tamron 28-70/2.8?

It's too bad there isn't (AFAIK) a sharp and affordable f4 or f3.5-5.6 standard zoom for Sony FE. If low light and shallow DoF are your priorities, though, you'd be better served by, say, 35mm & 85mm f1.4 or f1.8 primes. Samyang's 35/1.4 and Sony's 85/1.8 are very good and relatively affordable.

I still think, though, that you'll be well served for much less money by simply adding some tiny and affordable primes to your MFT kit. I could still do all my pro work with MFT today. I got the 35mm kit only for those situations where I need to shoot no-flash in very dim light at ISO 6400 and above.

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Forum Pro • Posts: 12,601
Re: Sony full frame advice

Alex Ethridge wrote:

I can't address much of what you ask but I got the A7 III last December. I had considered the A7R IV but decided I didn't want to deal with the larger files, in post or in the extra storage space. I regret that now as I have since upgraded my computer from i7 4th gen and 8 Gigs of RAM to i7 9th gen and 64 Gigs of RAM. Also, long-term storage isn't really a problem with magnetic media being so inexpensive these days.

I chose the Sony 24-105mm G lens for its wider range/longer reach and because my subjects are almost always family gatherings and other events and some architecture and sometimes landscapes. I almost never use apertures larger than f/4 and when I do, I don't like the shallow field of focus. When I do portraits, I use my m43 (GH5).

By the way, the difference between 28mm and 24mm is pronounced.

As for the f/4 of the 24-105mm, out-of-focus backgrounds can always be produced in post.

I like the a7III & 24-105/4 combo, too, but it's way past the OP's budget.

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DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 3,353
Re: Sony full frame advice
1

In Europe you can get an A7III from e-infinity for about €1469.

https://www.e-infin.com/eu/item/3555/sony_alpha_a7_iii_mirrorless_digital_camera_(body_only)

They have some cheap lenses, too: https://www.e-infin.com/eu/category/prime_lenses

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Cato1040
Cato1040 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,844
Re: Sony full frame advice
3

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

If you want a better lens, I think you could also get an A7RII with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 in your budget.

If you need to buy used, I'd prioritize the lens. The Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 is fantastic. You can buy the cheapest body you can (A7 or A7II) then upgrade to the A7III when its price drops (which it probably will once the A7IV is released) or when you can afford it.

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Forum Pro • Posts: 12,601
Re: Sony full frame advice
2

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

If you want a better lens, I think you could also get an A7RII with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 in your budget.

Yes, this represents good value and superb IQ.

If you need to buy used, I'd prioritize the lens. The Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 is fantastic. You can buy the cheapest body you can (A7 or A7II) then upgrade to the A7III when its price drops (which it probably will once the A7IV is released) or when you can afford it.

Not a bad strategy, but low-light performance (AF & noise) of the a7/a7II is pretty weak.

Another starter strategy is to get an a7III or a7RII and just one or two cheap primes - maybe a Nifty Fifty and/or Samyang's 18/2.8 or 35/1.4.

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Cato1040
Cato1040 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,844
Re: Sony full frame advice
2

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I wouldn't say it's an awful lens. I've heard many say it's above average for a kit lens. Whether it's a waste of a good camera is subjective but I could understand why you might say so.

And it can be a way to enter the Sony Full Frame system. An M43 camera with the pro f/2.8 zoom lenses could be comparable or better but then you're in that system and have, in a way, hit the ceiling, whereas with this A7 kit, at this budget, you're kind of at the floor with room to grow in the system.

If you want a better lens, I think you could also get an A7RII with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 in your budget.

Yes, this represents good value and superb IQ.

If you need to buy used, I'd prioritize the lens. The Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 is fantastic. You can buy the cheapest body you can (A7 or A7II) then upgrade to the A7III when its price drops (which it probably will once the A7IV is released) or when you can afford it.

Not a bad strategy, but low-light performance (AF & noise) of the a7/a7II is pretty weak.

Subjectively.

Another starter strategy is to get an a7III or a7RII and just one or two cheap primes - maybe a Nifty Fifty and/or Samyang's 18/2.8 or 35/1.4.

As long as the OP doesn't prefer a zoom.

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Forum Pro • Posts: 12,601
Re: Sony full frame advice

Cato1040 wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I wouldn't say it's an awful lens. I've heard many say it's above average for a kit lens.

Don't believe it. The falloff in sharpness even at the APS frame is obvious, and it's much less consistent edge-to-edge than any Panasonic zoom I've owned over the past 7 years.

Whether it's a waste of a good camera is subjective but I could understand why you might say so.

And it can be a way to enter the Sony Full Frame system. An M43 camera with the pro f/2.8 zoom lenses could be comparable or better but then you're in that system and have, in a way, hit the ceiling, whereas with this A7 kit, at this budget, you're kind of at the floor with room to grow in the system.

OTOH, if you're just going to sell the a7II because of its slow AF and noise in low light, and the kit zoom because it can't resolve 20MP, you'd be no worse off with MFT or APS. You could sell any of these later when you're ready to buy a modern, quality Sony 35mm-format kit.

If you want a better lens, I think you could also get an A7RII with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 in your budget.

Yes, this represents good value and superb IQ.

If you need to buy used, I'd prioritize the lens. The Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 is fantastic. You can buy the cheapest body you can (A7 or A7II) then upgrade to the A7III when its price drops (which it probably will once the A7IV is released) or when you can afford it.

Not a bad strategy, but low-light performance (AF & noise) of the a7/a7II is pretty weak.

Subjectively.

You keep using that word...

https://youtu.be/dTRKCXC0JFg

Another starter strategy is to get an a7III or a7RII and just one or two cheap primes - maybe a Nifty Fifty and/or Samyang's 18/2.8 or 35/1.4.

As long as the OP doesn't prefer a zoom.

Um, yeah. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Cato1040
Cato1040 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,844
Re: Sony full frame advice
1

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I wouldn't say it's an awful lens. I've heard many say it's above average for a kit lens.

Don't believe it. The falloff in sharpness even at the APS frame is obvious, and it's much less consistent edge-to-edge than any Panasonic zoom I've owned over the past 7 years.

It's not just about believing others, I've used it (though not extensively). I've also used other kit lenses (from Sony, Nikon, and Canon). I've seen fantastic picture captured by the Sony FE kit lens that surprised me when I saw which lens they used. You won't be able to convince me that it's aweful.

Whether it's a waste of a good camera is subjective but I could understand why you might say so.

And it can be a way to enter the Sony Full Frame system. An M43 camera with the pro f/2.8 zoom lenses could be comparable or better but then you're in that system and have, in a way, hit the ceiling, whereas with this A7 kit, at this budget, you're kind of at the floor with room to grow in the system.

OTOH, if you're just going to sell the a7II because of its slow AF and noise in low light, and the kit zoom because it can't resolve 20MP, you'd be no worse off with MFT or APS. You could sell any of these later when you're ready to buy a modern, quality Sony 35mm-format kit.

I didn't recommend getting the A7II with the kit lens. I recommended the A7III with the kit lens or a cheaper body with the Tamron 28-75mm so the OP could possibly be selling the body or (probably not and) the lens in the next few years, but likely not both. If they wanted to upgrade to Sony from M43, they may need to sell both.

If you want a better lens, I think you could also get an A7RII with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 in your budget.

Yes, this represents good value and superb IQ.

If you need to buy used, I'd prioritize the lens. The Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 is fantastic. You can buy the cheapest body you can (A7 or A7II) then upgrade to the A7III when its price drops (which it probably will once the A7IV is released) or when you can afford it.

Not a bad strategy, but low-light performance (AF & noise) of the a7/a7II is pretty weak.

Subjectively.

You keep using that word...

Because it is subjective. If I keep using it, it's because someone is stating their opinions as facts.

https://youtu.be/dTRKCXC0JFg

Another starter strategy is to get an a7III or a7RII and just one or two cheap primes - maybe a Nifty Fifty and/or Samyang's 18/2.8 or 35/1.4.

As long as the OP doesn't prefer a zoom.

Um, yeah. Thanks for clearing that up.

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ChelseaPhotographer
ChelseaPhotographer Regular Member • Posts: 420
Re: Sony full frame advice

Polemica wrote:

Hi guys

I need your help choosing a new camera. I started taking pictures three years ago with a panasonic mft entry level mirrorless and now i want to step up my photo with a full frame camera. I'm not a professional photographer but i love taking portrait photo, so for this reason i want to switch to full frame for the sweet bokeh and low light performance.

I have a budget of 1500-1800 € (1500 is better of course). With this price range in mind i selected four different setup (all prices are from a local camera shop, i'd prefer to not buy from amazon or online seller):

  • Sony A7 m2 with 28-70 kit (1017 €) + another lens (a 50 mm maybe?). What lens do you recomend?
  • Sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + Tamron 28-75 f2.8 (806€)
  • sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + possibly two other lenses (i hve no idea what lenses fit the budget, so i'm asking you)
  • Sony A7 m3 with 28-70 kit ( 2084 €) this option implies selling a kidney for the extra cash

If you have other suggestion or doubt feel free to let me know, thanks in advance fof your anwers!

Go with https://www.e-infin.com/ww/ and save a ton of money. Test the camera thoroughly when it arrives... Once I had to send back a Fuji X-T3 because it had a lot of dust on the sensor, but over the years I have saved thousands... Means that you can get gear that would otherwise be unaffordable to you...

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Forum Pro • Posts: 12,601
Re: Sony full frame advice

Cato1040 wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I wouldn't say it's an awful lens. I've heard many say it's above average for a kit lens.

Don't believe it. The falloff in sharpness even at the APS frame is obvious, and it's much less consistent edge-to-edge than any Panasonic zoom I've owned over the past 7 years.

It's not just about believing others, I've used it (though not extensively). I've also used other kit lenses (from Sony, Nikon, and Canon). I've seen fantastic picture captured by the Sony FE kit lens that surprised me when I saw which lens they used. You won't be able to convince me that it's aweful.

I don't need to. My first-hand experience with it convinced me immediately. I post this as a warning for others. Make of it what you will. The simple fact is that on a 42MP body it resolves no more than a good zoom on a 20MP MFT body. That's not "subjective" except in a Descartian sense (i.e. because all of our knowledge comes through our senses, the only thing we can be absolutely certain of is our own existence).

Whether it's a waste of a good camera is subjective but I could understand why you might say so.

And it can be a way to enter the Sony Full Frame system. An M43 camera with the pro f/2.8 zoom lenses could be comparable or better but then you're in that system and have, in a way, hit the ceiling, whereas with this A7 kit, at this budget, you're kind of at the floor with room to grow in the system.

OTOH, if you're just going to sell the a7II because of its slow AF and noise in low light, and the kit zoom because it can't resolve 20MP, you'd be no worse off with MFT or APS. You could sell any of these later when you're ready to buy a modern, quality Sony 35mm-format kit.

I didn't recommend getting the A7II with the kit lens.

Ah, I misunderstood.

I recommended the A7III with the kit lens or a cheaper body

Used a7RII would be my choice if not for fast action.

with the Tamron 28-75mm so the OP could possibly be selling the body

I may end up keeping my a7RII even though I "replaced" it with another a7RIII alongside my first a7RIII and a7III just so I can have a body that stays on a tripod for UWA venue shots during my event jobs. For still subjects, it's still a fantastic camera.

or (probably not and) the lens in the next few years, but likely not both. If they wanted to upgrade to Sony from M43, they may need to sell both.

If you want a better lens, I think you could also get an A7RII with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 in your budget.

Yes, this represents good value and superb IQ.

If you need to buy used, I'd prioritize the lens. The Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 is fantastic. You can buy the cheapest body you can (A7 or A7II) then upgrade to the A7III when its price drops (which it probably will once the A7IV is released) or when you can afford it.

Not a bad strategy, but low-light performance (AF & noise) of the a7/a7II is pretty weak.

Subjectively.

You keep using that word...

Because it is subjective. If I keep using it, it's because someone is stating their opinions as facts.

Yes, "awful" is subjective". The actual resolution of the lens as I reported it is not.

https://youtu.be/dTRKCXC0JFg

Another starter strategy is to get an a7III or a7RII and just one or two cheap primes - maybe a Nifty Fifty and/or Samyang's 18/2.8 or 35/1.4.

As long as the OP doesn't prefer a zoom.

Um, yeah. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Cato1040
Cato1040 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,844
Re: Sony full frame advice
1

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I wouldn't say it's an awful lens. I've heard many say it's above average for a kit lens.

Don't believe it. The falloff in sharpness even at the APS frame is obvious, and it's much less consistent edge-to-edge than any Panasonic zoom I've owned over the past 7 years.

It's not just about believing others, I've used it (though not extensively). I've also used other kit lenses (from Sony, Nikon, and Canon). I've seen fantastic picture captured by the Sony FE kit lens that surprised me when I saw which lens they used. You won't be able to convince me that it's aweful.

I don't need to.

You don't need to but I said that because that's what you seemed to be trying to do when you said "Don't believe it" though.

My first-hand experience with it convinced me immediately. I post this as a warning for others. Make of it what you will. The simple fact is that on a 42MP body it resolves no more than a good zoom on a 20MP MFT body.

I know DXOmark should always be taken with a grain of salt, but they scored the kit lens on the A7RII at 25MP, which is higher than any 20MP camera can resolve.

The Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 and Pansonic 12-35mm f/2.8 scored 12MP on the OM-D E-M1 II whereas the Sony 28-70mm f/3.5-5.6 scored 25MP on the A7RII and 8MP on the A6000 (which would really crop in on the lens). This score is more 'objective' and doesn't seem to make the kit lens look that bad to me. To be fair, I don't have any personal experience with those high-end M43 zoom lenses so this is not from personal experience and this is also not to negate your experience with the lenses.

The Sony kit lens also has a 4.4 star rating on Sony, a 4 star rating on B&H, a 4 star rating on Amazon, and a 4.8 star rating on Best Buy, so I think most people don't think it's awful.

That's not "subjective" except in a Descartian sense (i.e. because all of our knowledge comes through our senses, the only thing we can be absolutely certain of is our own existence).

You're introducing something else into the conversation now. Saying it's awful is different than how much something resolves. The first is subjective, then second is objective. Many people practically don't need more than 8MP anyway. So what's awful to you may not be awful to others. Again, you won't be able to convince me (and seemingly most people that reviewed the lens) that the kit lens is awful (unless you're referring to a particularly bad copy or a broken one).

Whether it's a waste of a good camera is subjective but I could understand why you might say so.

And it can be a way to enter the Sony Full Frame system. An M43 camera with the pro f/2.8 zoom lenses could be comparable or better but then you're in that system and have, in a way, hit the ceiling, whereas with this A7 kit, at this budget, you're kind of at the floor with room to grow in the system.

OTOH, if you're just going to sell the a7II because of its slow AF and noise in low light, and the kit zoom because it can't resolve 20MP, you'd be no worse off with MFT or APS. You could sell any of these later when you're ready to buy a modern, quality Sony 35mm-format kit.

I didn't recommend getting the A7II with the kit lens.

Ah, I misunderstood.

I recommended the A7III with the kit lens or a cheaper body

Used a7RII would be my choice if not for fast action.

If the image quality or price is the priority, then generally yes. For most other considerations, I'd recommend the A7III. It depends on the OP's priority. I purposely chose the A7III over the A7RIII because I'd rather not deal with the large file sizes and found the A7III's image quality more than good enough, though I did occasionally appreciate the resolution (my A7 history is A7, A7RII, A7RIII, A7III).

with the Tamron 28-75mm so the OP could possibly be selling the body

I may end up keeping my a7RII even though I "replaced" it with another a7RIII alongside my first a7RIII and a7III just so I can have a body that stays on a tripod for UWA venue shots during my event jobs. For still subjects, it's still a fantastic camera.

I even found the A7RII's AF good for most things. I used it for a paid event shoot (indoor at night (though with flash)) and had no issues with the AF. It's a great body. The III bodies do have much better AF but the A7RII is no slouch and was a huge upgrade over the A7II. Even if starting from scratch, taking the whole system into account, I'd choose the A7RII over any other non-Sony mirrorless camera out there.

or (probably not and) the lens in the next few years, but likely not both. If they wanted to upgrade to Sony from M43, they may need to sell both.

If you want a better lens, I think you could also get an A7RII with the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 in your budget.

Yes, this represents good value and superb IQ.

If you need to buy used, I'd prioritize the lens. The Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 is fantastic. You can buy the cheapest body you can (A7 or A7II) then upgrade to the A7III when its price drops (which it probably will once the A7IV is released) or when you can afford it.

Not a bad strategy, but low-light performance (AF & noise) of the a7/a7II is pretty weak.

Subjectively.

You keep using that word...

Because it is subjective. If I keep using it, it's because someone is stating their opinions as facts.

Yes, "awful" is subjective". The actual resolution of the lens as I reported it is not.

Agreed. Though acceptable resolution can also be subjective/different per photographer. It can depend on usage (astrophotographers might shoot wide open whereas daytime landscape shooters may shoot at smaller apertures which help with sharpness). It can also depend on medium (Instagram vs 20x30 prints).

https://youtu.be/dTRKCXC0JFg

Another starter strategy is to get an a7III or a7RII and just one or two cheap primes - maybe a Nifty Fifty and/or Samyang's 18/2.8 or 35/1.4.

As long as the OP doesn't prefer a zoom.

Um, yeah. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Alex Ethridge
Alex Ethridge Veteran Member • Posts: 4,994
Re: Sony full frame advice

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Alex Ethridge wrote:

I can't address much of what you ask but I got the A7 III last December. I had considered the A7R IV but decided I didn't want to deal with the larger files, in post or in the extra storage space. I regret that now as I have since upgraded my computer from i7 4th gen and 8 Gigs of RAM to i7 9th gen and 64 Gigs of RAM. Also, long-term storage isn't really a problem with magnetic media being so inexpensive these days.

I chose the Sony 24-105mm G lens for its wider range/longer reach and because my subjects are almost always family gatherings and other events and some architecture and sometimes landscapes. I almost never use apertures larger than f/4 and when I do, I don't like the shallow field of focus. When I do portraits, I use my m43 (GH5).

By the way, the difference between 28mm and 24mm is pronounced.

As for the f/4 of the 24-105mm, out-of-focus backgrounds can always be produced in post.

I like the a7III & 24-105/4 combo, too, but it's way past the OP's budget.

Agreed but . . .

Having been in sales of one kind or another for many years, I have seen many times where people have defined a budget range then bumped it up.  Not saying the OP should or that anyone should; it just happens.  I bumped mine up when I got the A7III; now I regret not going for the A7R IV

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QuietOC
QuietOC Veteran Member • Posts: 4,194
Re: Sony full frame advice
1

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I'll assume you had a bad experience with an outlier. I find the Sony FE 28-70 OSS to be an excellent kit zoom. There are other lenses that can be used that are much cheaper than the Tamron 28-75 F2.8 RXD. Personally, I would like a normal zoom wider than 24 mm that was also better than my Canon EF 22-55 F4-5.6 USM, but a 24-70 F2.8 is more useful than a 28-x.

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QuietOC
QuietOC Veteran Member • Posts: 4,194
Re: Sony full frame advice

Polemica wrote:

Hi guys

I need your help choosing a new camera. I started taking pictures three years ago with a panasonic mft entry level mirrorless and now i want to step up my photo with a full frame camera. I'm not a professional photographer but i love taking portrait photo, so for this reason i want to switch to full frame for the sweet bokeh and low light performance.

I have a budget of 1500-1800 € (1500 is better of course). With this price range in mind i selected four different setup (all prices are from a local camera shop, i'd prefer to not buy from amazon or online seller):

  • Sony A7 m2 with 28-70 kit (1017 €) + another lens (a 50 mm maybe?). What lens do you recomend?
  • Sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + Tamron 28-75 f2.8 (806€)
  • sony A7 m2 body only (960 €) + possibly two other lenses (i hve no idea what lenses fit the budget, so i'm asking you)
  • Sony A7 m3 with 28-70 kit ( 2084 €) this option implies selling a kidney for the extra cash

If you have other suggestion or doubt feel free to let me know, thanks in advance fof your anwers!

I've enjoyed both cameras and recommend getting the kit zoom with either. I don't use the kit zoom much, but it makes very good images.

The A7m2 is not very good for low light. If that's your main objective, look elsewhere.

I've used the Tamron 28-75/2.8 briefly once. It is overpriced, but that's reality. I adapt a Sony 28-75mm F2.8 SAM, which, while sharp, has more image quality issues than the new Tamron, but mostly I wish it was wider.

My best portrait lens is an adapted Tamron SP 85mm F1.8 USD. I find the images from the Sony FE 85mm F1.8 worse, and those form the Samyang 75mm F1.8 worse than the Sony, but either of those are decent options. The lowly Sony FE 50mm F1.8 has quite nice out-of-focus blur.

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Forum Pro • Posts: 12,601
Re: Sony full frame advice

QuietOC wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I'll assume you had a bad experience with an outlier. I find the Sony FE 28-70 OSS to be an excellent kit zoom. There are other lenses that can be used that are much cheaper than the Tamron 28-75 F2.8 RXD. Personally, I would like a normal zoom wider than 24 mm that was also better than my Canon EF 22-55 F4-5.6 USM, but a 24-70 F2.8 is more useful than a 28-x.

That’s not a safe assumption. The lens is not decentered. It is simply soft outside the central 20% of the frame, especially so beyond the APS frame. Reviews and tests are consistent with my finding.

If you find yours “excellent”, I’m willing to bet you’re using a 24MP, not a 42MP body, and you haven’t compared it against better zooms or primes in controlled testing.

Like I said, it cannot outresolve a good zoom on a 20MP MFT body except right smack in the middle. If you’re going to be using this lens, there’s no point in getting a high-rez body.

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QuietOC
QuietOC Veteran Member • Posts: 4,194
Re: Sony full frame advice
1

Jacques Cornell wrote:

QuietOC wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I'll assume you had a bad experience with an outlier. I find the Sony FE 28-70 OSS to be an excellent kit zoom...

That’s not a safe assumption. The lens is not decentered. It is simply soft outside the central 20% of the frame, especially so beyond the APS frame. Reviews and tests are consistent with my finding.

If you find yours “excellent”, I’m willing to bet you’re using a 24MP, not a 42MP body, and you haven’t compared it against better zooms or primes in controlled testing.

The OP was asking about 24 MP cameras. I have tested the FE 28-70 OSS in much more controlled situations than group portraits of 80 people. Primes are irrelevant.

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Jacques Cornell
Jacques Cornell Forum Pro • Posts: 12,601
Re: Sony full frame advice

QuietOC wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

QuietOC wrote:

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Cato1040 wrote:

Are you willing to buy used? If so, I would think you could get an A7III with the kit lens at that price.

The kit zoom is awful, to be replaced as soon as possible. Honestly, it's a waste of a good camera. If you're happy with its level of performance, you might as well go Micro Four Thirds, because you'll get only 16-20MP of resolution from it anywhere away from the center, even when mounted on a 42MP body. I know, because I have extensive MFT and a7III/a7RIII kits, and I did the comparison on a group portrait of 80 people, stopped down with flash.

I'll assume you had a bad experience with an outlier. I find the Sony FE 28-70 OSS to be an excellent kit zoom...

That’s not a safe assumption. The lens is not decentered. It is simply soft outside the central 20% of the frame, especially so beyond the APS frame. Reviews and tests are consistent with my finding.

If you find yours “excellent”, I’m willing to bet you’re using a 24MP, not a 42MP body, and you haven’t compared it against better zooms or primes in controlled testing.

The OP was asking about 24 MP cameras. I have tested the FE 28-70 OSS in much more controlled situations than group portraits of 80 people. Primes are irrelevant.

Well, all I can say is that, even stopped down to f8, mine so poorly resolved the faces of 60 of my 80 subjects that I immediately shelved it and bought a 24-105/4. I consider the 28-70 unusable for this kind of work.

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"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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http://happening.photos

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