Olympus situation - my opinion

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glassoholic
glassoholic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,545
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion
1

Donald B wrote:

Beautiful images

it's good that you are big enough to give praise Don!

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Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,914
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion
2

Well , well this is a refreshing surprise

When I saw the thread , I was tempted to ignore. As you wrote yourself , I thought . "Gee another expert who knows for sure why olympus gave up and what will happen next" but then I looked at the photos you posted and was impressed by your images . I especially like the one from the bird under the rain and I clicked on the link to see more of your work on Birds which is REALLY impressive . Bravo !!:-D

and then of course I read your text about what's next for Olympus and was pleased to see something very well put together which underlines what may come next without pretending , unlike many others, to have all the answers

Thank you for both the opinion and the images

Harold

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bluehighwayman Contributing Member • Posts: 717
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion
8

Chas J wrote:

horsth wrote:

Petr,

fantastic images. I'm wondering what a full-frame camera could improve. I guess nothing! It's fashion only.....

Horst

The same photos, if taken with FF, would show less noise, more dynamic range, better tonality, more choice in depth of field and allow larger prints to be made.

These things may or may not matter to you but they are there.

Yes you are right and I just can't see why these awful, noisy, and just embarrassingly amateurish photos were posted.  It's clear a FF camera would have been superior in every way improving composition, artistic excellence, and since the intent is to print these photos 10 feet wide by 4 feet high using a M/43 camera was an absolutely horrendous decision by the photographer.  I just don't know when these so called photographers will learn that an excellent photo is just not possible with anything smaller than a FF sensor.  Expanding on your comment though I don't think using anything less than a medium format camera can actually be referred to as photography!

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CalNature Senior Member • Posts: 1,552
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion

Great pics BTW, of course.

I also have the 7.5 Laowa. I bought it for wide angle close-ups, as you have used it above. I also bought it as a "Vlogging" lens with my EM1ii. I prefer a wider AOV to include more landscape scenery for my video walks.

Thanks for sharing. Jeff

CalNature Senior Member • Posts: 1,552
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion

It would be great to have this technique described in English. Somehow I never studied your language...how could that have slipped past me?

Richie S Contributing Member • Posts: 532
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion
1

These are stunning images. I think your talent would shine through whatever system you use.

I nearly exited Olympus about six months or so ago, but my love of the brand for the past 40-odd years led me to pick up a em1iii and keep the lenses for a predominantly macro setup.

I’ve thought about getting another 300mm and it was good to see the lens roadmap - but where does the r&d budget come from for the nest camera?

the em1iii had great software enhancements, but clearly needs a new sensor and they didn’t update the evf and so on.

Yes our gear will still work, but you only have to look at the original four-thirds system to see what happens when the product line stops coming. Four thirds camera still work but everything has moved on dramatically.

Okapi001 Senior Member • Posts: 5,093
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion
3

Richie S wrote:

Yes our gear will still work, but you only have to look at the original four-thirds system to see what happens when the product line stops coming. Four thirds camera still work but everything has moved on dramatically.

What really happend to the 4/3? It organically evolved to m4/3, which is a good thing, not a bad thing.  All 4/3 lenses still work on newer cameras. What would be the point of  having two parallel systems?

And in case Olympus will stop developing new cameras, there still is Panasonic, who will, hopefully, continue to do so.

Of course, there is a danger Panasonic will also stop making new m4/3 cameras, in which case in something like 5 years a situation from the early '90s will probably repeat. Back then Olympus stop developing new SLRs and photographers, using OM System, were left without a proper AF camera (not counting failed attemps with OM-30 and 707), while all others (Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Minolta, Leica...) successfully advanced to the world of auto-focus cameras.

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Great Bustard Forum Pro • Posts: 44,684
Great post!

Petr Bambousek wrote:

mrphotography wrote:

AdamT wrote:

mrphotography wrote:

Nice shots but they're all less than 2 megapixels. Truth be told, when blown up side by side the advantage of FF looks obvious.

So he's more worried about having some lame pictures "stolen" than showing us what an Olympus camera can do? I'm not buying it.

I really don't know a single person which share its images widely in full format just keep others to believe they are good. I really don't know any more stupid debate than "what is better - FF or m43?'.

And I know this reply will not solve it and make anything better but yes, I spent about half an hour to prepare some 1:1 cuts from presented pictures. These cuts are 1920 x 1080 from full sized image so don't forget to open it in full format if you wish to pixel-peer it.

These debates are nonsense and neverending. Always the same:

- Full frame is better in this and that, you will get better image quality, better prints, etc
+ Maybe, but really not always
- Proove it! Pictures are small
+ Here you are ...
- Pictures are processed, I want to see RAW
+ here you are ...
- Pictures are easy to obtain, I want to see more difficult!
+ here you are ...
- But still, FF is better in many ways
.....

There was even test when people should say which 2 pictures out of 4 were taken with FF and m43 based on 1m prints. They could come as close they need to check. 86% didn't find the different and I am more than pretty sure there were those in the rest of 15% with just lucky guess (980 responds). I wish they print all 20 pictures I delivered from the one day zoo walk and not split to 10:10.

The point is, to try to say which system is better leads to nowhere. The only question is - dou you like the pictures? Yes - Ok. No - Ok. Otherwise the debate can be infinity. If anybody bought its camera just to make sure others were wrong with their choice, something is wrong. There are lots of games we can play, but I prefer to go outside and create photographs instead to write this repeating debates ...

+ FF has better ISO
- Yes, but you are not able handheld 10s pictures
+ No, but FF has better ISO
+ Yes, but you are not able handheld 10s pictures
....

Absolutely great photos and great reply!  Just a quick niggle, though:  10s handheld would mean 10 stops of stabilization for 50mm FF equivalent (as well as the subject remaining still for 10s).

But, as I've said multiple times, even mFT is overkill for the vast majority, and I think your photos do a rather splendid job of demonstrating exactly that!

Cheers!

mbike999
mbike999 Contributing Member • Posts: 672
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion
15

Awesome photos as usual Petr. It is people like you that help remind me that equipment choice makes up such a small part of what it takes to master this wonderful hobby.

Here on DPReview, people treat camera brands and formats like their favorite sports team. It's  so dumb, really. How many times do you and others have to demonstrate the benefit of micro four-thirds with world-class photography, better than most people will ever take in their lives, and yet people still march into these forums to try and devalue the system like they have anything to show for it.

I've used both micro four-thirds and full frame side by side for years some of my best photos were on the smaller format. I believe most of the people with strong opinions have never even owned a micro four-thirds camera nor used it to its full potential.

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DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 3,129
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion
1

Petr Bambousek wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

... there is not enough dynamic range, ...

BTW, recently I "discovered" crazy thing. I don't know if it is widely known but one can get amazing dynamic range from m4/3 camera (namely E-M1 III and E-M1X) using combination of ISO 64 and internal ND filter. I did short video about that (only in czech, sorry) but I was very very surprised what you can get back from strongly underexposed (-2 to -3 EV) picture created with this combination.

Here is the link to the video where I talk about it (16:48):
https://youtu.be/6_3mTK29OdA?t=1008

Before/After image enlarged to 100% is one shot only. I describe the setting and other example few moments after

Just for fun

To improve the dynamic range for cameras with low DR, one of the best ways is to shoot more exposures and combine them in post-processing.

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DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 3,129
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion

Chas J wrote:

horsth wrote:

Petr,

fantastic images. I'm wondering what a full-frame camera could improve. I guess nothing! It's fashion only.....

Horst

The same photos, if taken with FF, would show less noise, more dynamic range, better tonality, more choice in depth of field and allow larger prints to be made.

These things may or may not matter to you but they are there.

And they will be sharper since FF allow for more effective resolution.

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Okapi001 Senior Member • Posts: 5,093
Re: Great post!
1

Great Bustard wrote:

Absolutely great photos and great reply! Just a quick niggle, though: 10s handheld would mean 10 stops of stabilization for 50mm FF equivalent (as well as the subject remaining still for 10s).

What exactly is the niggle here? Rated 6 or 7 stops of stabilisation doesn't mean you cannot achieve even nore, if you have a stedy hand. Rated figures are just some standardized averages.

Also, 10 sec is 7 stops of stabilisation, if the base value is 1/15 sec, perfectly doable with an wide angle lens.

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brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 8,916
Re: Great Images
4

DLBlack wrote:

I always enjoy your photos.

Without knowing much picture Olympus spinning off their Imaging Division as like parents with an adult child living with them and they are still supporting. The parents have done all they could do and provided the adult child everything to make it on his own. So now it is up to the child to make it on his own. Definitely a new beginning.

I own both the E-M1X and E-M1.3 and have an extensive lens collection. I will continue to buy Olympus gear if it is something I will use. My cameras should last 3 to 5 years. After that who will know what the camera industry will be like.

Dave

I look at my two E-M1X and E-M1.3 just gained an additional year of life, in fact, my E-M1.3 has not been used on a shoot.

Seeing that I'm on the electronic shutter 95% of the time I expect my present Olympus gear will outlast me.

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DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 3,129
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion

Mentt wrote:

I think that only thing that can save Micro four thirds is to improve AF to Sony level as much as possible. Mainly eye AF. Had Oly 5iii for 2 weeks demo and I was surprised how bad the AF was. Even Panasonic gx9 had better performance. Either way in general micro four thirds cameras are known for not that good af performance and you need be skilled photographer to get acceptable hit rate. And for sure current AF state is not good selling point for casual users or new users coming from mobile phones. If AF would improve to Sony like ease to get subjects in focus many users would be interested due to small size of micro four thirds cameras

If AF is bad for cameras with PDAF, I wonder how bad is for cameras which just have CDAF, which is most Olympus cameras.

I tested E-M1II, which I borrowed from our local Olympus dealership and CAF and tracking is a joke compared to more refined cameras.

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Great Bustard Forum Pro • Posts: 44,684
Re: Great post!

Okapi001 wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

Absolutely great photos and great reply! Just a quick niggle, though: 10s handheld would mean 10 stops of stabilization for 50mm FF equivalent (as well as the subject remaining still for 10s).

What exactly is the niggle here? Rated 6 or 7 stops of stabilisation doesn't mean you cannot achieve even nore, if you have a stedy hand.

If your hand is steady enough, you can shoot for hours without any IBIS.

Rated figures are just some standardized averages.

Also, 10 sec is 7 stops of stabilisation, if the base value is 1/15 sec, perfectly doable with an wide angle lens.

My bad -- I meant 9 stops (I counted 1/50s as 1 stop instead of 0 stops using, as I said, the 1/FF equivalent FL rule). Let's do the math using the 1/FL rule for 50mm FF equivalent:

  • 0 stops -- 1/50s
  • 1 stop -- 1/25s
  • 2 stops -- 1/13s
  • 3 stops -- 1/6s
  • 4 stops -- 1/3s
  • 5 stops -- 0.6s
  • 6 stops -- 1.3s
  • 7 stops -- 2.5s
  • 8 stops -- 5s
  • 9 stops -- 10s

In any case, while certainly a boon to have, once again, you need the subject to be still for 10s or want the degree of motion blur that 10s would give. To me, the difference in 5 stops of stabilization vs 7 stops of stabilization is like the difference between 10 fps and 20 fps in a camera. Sure, 20 fps is better than 10 fps, and some people can really make good use of that. But for most people, even 10 fps is serious overkill.

If you find that you can shoot 10s handheld with Olympus but cannot with any other system, and that's something you need to be able to do, then, for a fact, shoot Olympus -- I'm surely not telling you otherwise.

Regardless, I again offer my props to the OP for his outstanding photos!

Okapi001 Senior Member • Posts: 5,093
Re: Great post!

Great Bustard wrote:

But for most people, even 10 fps is serious overkill.

For most people anything over 1 fps is overkill. For most people a DSLR is overkill. And so what? We are discussing here pro-level cameras.

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glassoholic
glassoholic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,545
Re: Great post!
1

Okapi001 wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

Absolutely great photos and great reply! Just a quick niggle, though: 10s handheld would mean 10 stops of stabilization for 50mm FF equivalent (as well as the subject remaining still for 10s).

What exactly is the niggle here? Rated 6 or 7 stops of stabilisation doesn't mean you cannot achieve even nore, if you have a stedy hand. Rated figures are just some standardized averages.

Also, 10 sec is 7 stops of stabilisation, if the base value is 1/15 sec, perfectly doable with an wide angle lens.

10 secs with the Dual IS 12-100 @ 12mm is readily achievable... 15 secs if you are more steady than me. For me, 4 secs with this combo is close to 100% critically sharp. I'm happy with that... 7 stops from a base of 1/30 (12mm/ 24mm equiv./ 1/30).

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Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 9,581
Re: Great post!
3

Okapi001 wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

Absolutely great photos and great reply! Just a quick niggle, though: 10s handheld would mean 10 stops of stabilization for 50mm FF equivalent (as well as the subject remaining still for 10s).

What exactly is the niggle here? Rated 6 or 7 stops of stabilisation doesn't mean you cannot achieve even nore, if you have a stedy hand. Rated figures are just some standardized averages.

A person with steady hands will get the same ‘stops of advantage’ as one who is unsteady.

The ‘stops of advantage’  is measured as the difference between the lowest shutter speed you find acceptable with the IS  switched OFF, and the lowest shutter speed you find acceptable with the IS switched ON. If you have steady hands then both of those shutter speeds will be lower, so the difference will be the same.

the rated stops have nothing to do with the old 1/FL rule of thumb

Peter

Also, 10 sec is 7 stops of stabilisation, if the base value is 1/15 sec, perfectly doable with an wide angle lens.

Ifixit Regular Member • Posts: 201
Re: To proof or not to proof
1

I would not give people like that any respons. It has the same effect as giving a barking pup attention😎 It is mindboggling to see that people still care to discuss formats. Anyone use what they like and the one with the most talent produce the best results. Like our Petr here.

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Stizzu68 Regular Member • Posts: 199
Re: Olympus situation - my opinion

Very nice pictures Petr, as always, and interesting write-up.

I hope they will find a way to continue to produce good quality Olympus/Zuiko equipment but I am not too optimistic about that.  On the other side, I am happy with my Olympus/Panasonic equipment and I hope I will continue to serve me for a long time.

It was interesting to read that you decided to keep the 200 2.8 and sell the Olympus teles. For different reasons, my kit grew up also too big and I have also to simplify it.

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