mid range ($) apsc camera and housing

for a friends birthday. Decent DR with decent video capabilities. In housing zoom lens (15-30mm?). Looking for a camera and a compatible housing and additional port if necessary.

Price $2/2.5K

The Pany LX 100 II with a housing looks good, but just trying to find something with a little larger sensor and the benefits that go along with that (resolution, DR, lower noise, etc.) .

Thanks, Mike

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

More for video or stills? Flash? Experience level of friend, both diving and photography?

Mostly Stills, intermediate diver- maybe 30 hours, no advanced certification, beginner/intermediate photographer, mostly point & shoot.

The gal its for has a good brain, molecular biologist who has an opportunity to work with a marine science research group.

It's a pretty good budget, I think. I don't know what's out there in that price range though. Willing to go used?

used......that's a possibility

As a single, obsolete data point, I spent about $5k on a Nauticam housing, dual YS-D1 strobes, a focus light, two wet lenses and a Sony RX100 II about 6 years ago. I'm not sure anything has gotten cheaper.

That Panasonic + Nauticam sounds pretty similar to my rig, updated. Same price for that part. The strobes and wet lenses can add up. I'd certainly consider the Panasonic, and I've now got three Nauticam housings, all of which have been good.

Thanks for the reply & info.

Mike

Mike Gerstner wrote:

for a friends birthday. Decent DR with decent video capabilities. In housing zoom lens (15-30mm?). Looking for a camera and a compatible housing and additional port if necessary.

Price $2/2.5K

The Pany LX 100 II with a housing looks good, but just trying to find something with a little larger sensor and the benefits that go along with that (resolution, DR, lower noise, etc.) .

As Craig notes, it's easy to spend a ton of money here, and for a newer diver, probably not productively.   If you go to ILC for a bigger sensor, you're probably blowing past on budget.   However, there is a lot of used gear potential in the 1-2k range.

The complexity is still an issue, however.   Compact cameras are great in that you're covered on lenses, and the port should cover most cases.  Can choose to spend a little (or lot) on a dome port, but don't need to up front.

I think the LX100 II would be a pretty good choice in new.   4/3rds sensor is more than enough for a new photographer, and its range and video capability are strong.   It might be slightly weak on the macro front.  (FTR, I happily continue to use a 4/3rds ILC - smaller lenses and ports travel more readily)  But still fairly compact in the water.   A < 100 dive person is not a good match for Craig's FF rig and twin strobes.   Lot of drag, lot of weight.

Pragmatically, the 1" sensors would also do just fine, and a lot of divers cut their teeth with a gopro.   Since they added stablization, big reduction in vomit cam video.

My wife has the Canon G7X II and a Nauticam housing, one strobe.   She had two ports - the standard flat, and a mini bubble one ($250?)  that opens it up enough to do white sharks from a cage type wide angle.   To go to WA inches from coral requires going to the more expensive true domes.

Nauticam isn't cheap, but quite sturdy, and the vacuum system greatly reduces chance of flooding due to careless closures.

Last generation (or two) compact housing used market can be esp good.   You shouldn't over invest on a gift for the first timer.   She will need some experience to decide which design choices are best for her.   Second purchase will be closer to the mark.

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

I'd say though that as soon as you add handles to the side of the camera, it changes how you dive. With a wrist strap camera, you can let it go and ignore it. Not so much with a handled camera, which is usually going to have at least one strobe hanging off as well.

i've hung the rig with a coiled lanyard, though i discovered during a safety stop at Truk that these will break with age.   Now I use a braided rope (the nauticam one) with metal clips as my primary.    It's a lot of money dangling there.   The pressure of constantly holding with one bent arm can lead to joint aches and muscles - the fake bends.

The complexity isn't to be ignored by new divers. I constantly have my regulator hose getting caught up in my strobe clamps, pulling my mouthpiece out when I turn my head, and always in a spot you cannot see because of the mask. That sort of thing can be quite distracting.

20 years ago, before I started using cameras, I adopted most of the DIR/GUE practices that came into vogue from the cavediver world.   They repopularized backplates, but it was their KISS principles around hose management I found very attractive for diving in the kelp, as I was doing a lot of solo diving at that time.

You start with a presumption that in an out of air emergency, it's faster to donate your primary, and the victim may not ask anyway.   So the octo gets put on a short hose attached to a bungle necklace.   It's always sitting just at your neck, no risk of it dragging behind you out of reach, or across the reef.    The primary hose goes on a very long hose (5', to as long as 6 for a big guy in a thick suit) which you wrap around your torso once.  (cave divers go even longer to 7 feet).   This is long enough so that if you donate, you can both swim side by side rather than be forced into a dosey do embrace.     If you're nearly always solo, very unlikely to donate, then you can use a second short hose.  The octo is there in case of mechanical failure or somehow knocked away.     The HP SPG hose (with or without a computer) is clicked to your left hip d-ring.   (My wife's variation to replace the SS dogclick with a bungee clip so she can pull the SPG to visual range without having to unclip.    I use wrist computers and when called for, a wrist compass.

Coupled with a backplate and wing and no need for a chest strap, you have nothing to snag between your neck and your waist.   Much lower drag too.    I cringe whenever I see the classic kitchen sink diver who dangles a multiple of objects from every hang point.   I was that diver 5 years earlier.   It's very inefficient, distracting, and increases ways for things to go wrong.   You want all of that settled, so all you need to think about is the camera and the target.

Attached is 19 year old pic.   This is still my cold water gear, though the wetsuit is on last legs.  Changed the octo faceplate to black - don't want people thinking it is meant for them.   Hidden are the classic jetfins with the modern spring straps.   Any photog in rougher waters wants fins that go on/off in a flash.

Catalina's Casino Point.

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

I like the idea of smoothing out the rig. I'm still using a lot of the same equipment I started with, or adopted within a year. I use an Oceanic Islander BCD, which only weighs 6 pounds by itself. I do have a chest strap, though I don't know I particularly need it. Just always fastened it since it was there. Since about 2007.

I converted from a 'yellow hose' octo to an integrated one to eliminate one dangler. I've also had to use that integrated hose through a whole dive, and it wasn't pleasant.

I think the integrated octos compromise performance, and there's more non standard buttons to confuse in an emergency situation.   Definitely another case where you donate your primary.   I personally prefer a high perf octo - on one rig it's an old primary.

I've seen one or two wings, but never used one nor really understand what they would offer me over my little Islander.

I tried a number of back inflator BCDs from the attractive looking, but poor in water Ranger, to lighter ones.   Never found one I liked.   Problem for many was the soft back, esp with a single cam band.  I see the Islander has what looks to be a more solid tank plate.

But it is still got a lot of unnecessary cluster (particularly the pockets in front), and most of it is breakable plastic.   A lot of failure and break points, and much higher drag.    Those bungees on the wing try to mitigate air trappage, but it's a common problem for the BI BCs.

My 3 travel plate systems weigh between 7.6 and 8.3lbs.   Dual cams, metal d-rings and buckle, simple weight pockets for 10 lbs on the sides.  They break down into separate parts, which can make packing more efficient (particularly for 2).   There are some minimalist systems out there that likely drop the packing weight to under 5, but haven't tried yet.  I got a good collection already.

I like the weight distribution along the back.  For cold water, I use a stainless steel (-7lbs) with a 7lb weighted tank adapter.   That's 14 lbs well distributed, unlike single weight point along the waist.    The crotch strap is particularly helpful when using AL80s - which get positively buoyant middive.   The lack of need for the chest strap is good for the ladies, though I do see your BC has a couple mount points for it to allow for accommodation.

In true tropics, I use an 18lb wing that is again very low drag, though barely enough to float it at the beginning of a dive.   But I also have a 27, 38, 40 accumulated over time.   Easy to pick for the situation, based on weighting, wetsuit, wave levels.     If any single part wears out, easy to swap.    The wing part tends to be the most expensive, but if you buy the whole set used on ebay, can be much cheaper.

Catching back on our somewhat off topic equipment discussion.   OTOH, equipment choices are of key importance for distracted photographers.  Don't be one of the idiots running out of air or well under planned depth because you were chasing a subject.

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

Yes, but I'm happier with the lack of an extra hose hanging off me. The octo is only supposed to be used in an emergency, and it works fine for that. It's far too short to hand to someone else, so they'll get my regular hose. On one trip I had taken my regulator in for some preventive maintenance, and I think they put the wrong spring in it. As soon as I hit the water and took a breath, the reg was pretty much free flowing. I'd twist a knob and get it to stop - until the next breath. After a few minutes of that, I switched to the integrated and found out how uncomfortable it is in your mouth, and found that it just didn't flow air as nicely as a typical 2nd stage.

Yes, it's one less hose, but you point out the price of that convenience.   In a true emergency, your breathing rate will be elevated, and if you're donated to an OOA diver, their's will be highly elevated.    Not a good time to have to fight to get the oxygen you need.    That can lead to a hyperventilation loop.

That's why I'm keen to the necklace.   No compromise on perf, but minimizing the impact of the hose.    Nothing is more essential than the air supply.

Moving on to your BC - I'll preface that if one has happily used a piece of gear for 10 years, it will be hard to find a better replacement, even if it is technically superior.   When you know the equipment so well you don't think about it, that's what the distracted photog needs.

OK, I have to take issue here, though I'm not one to be banging about underwater. I've been using the Islander for about 250 dives over 11 years, and it looks brand new. My divemaster even complimented me on that last fall. Nothing has broken.

The risk with plastic comes with drops.   If someone drops a tank or a weight belt on it on top of it, for example.   I lost my original, first favorite mask this way.   When a small inflatable is used to ferry divers in/out, the rigs get piled up on top of each other.   If it's not well secured to the dive deck and there is rough seas, it can fall over.    Metal + webbing is nearly indestructible.

Also, I can't see how the pockets do much of anything negative, Compared to not having a pocket there would only be different by a couple of bits of fabric and a zipper.

it sticks out considerably.   That's drag or snag potential.   In the kelp forest, the latter becomes a bigger deal.   In wreck penetrations like Truk, also a concern where the DM guide stretches the notion of recreational.

I prefer the pocket along the quads, at near arm extension.

That I'm comfortable with, after 11 years. The way I dump air is to be head-up slightly or fully, and pull on my integrated air hose. That opens the top back valve and lets the air out. Occasionally if I am head-down, I may reach back to the bottom dump valve and let some air out there so I don't have to un-invert. But in either case I have a dump valve only on one side. I've made a bit of an unconscious habit of raising my right shoulder before dumping in order to make sure the air has a path out. Sometimes I'll do a big roll, mostly for fun, but also to redistribute any air in the BC. In my early days I was having issues with air trappage, but not for years now.

On U shaped wings, you also need to do the roll to the side and vent scheme.   Generally not with donut wings.   The DIR guidelines also toss away the pull dump at the shoulder as a failure point.   If you're moderately weighted or worse, losing ability to add air can be somewhere between an annoyance and real danger.    Having an expensive rig to protect ups the ante there.

Chest strap connections seem nice - except they are too close to see with my mask blocking the view to them.

Those have more value on land than in the water.   A well fitted BC shouldn't need it, and not restrict breathing any (much more an issue with the jacket BCs)

Buoyancy / trim is something I'm highly interested in. By any chance does a wing make it easiest to trim out such that you can swim back-down, looking up? There are lots of times I want to be looking upward when going under a ledge or in a crevice, but I find it a very hard skill to master. (Not to mention getting salt water in my eyes.)

eh...mildly.   An aluminum plate is only -1 or 2 pounds.   Distributing it along the back is a bit better than at the hip, but if you're carrying 6-10 lbs, not a huge improvement.   It is more so with the steel plate that is -7.   Your BC seem to offer a little range of position for weights on the back.   You'd want some high up to balance the ballast in the weight pockets.   Though I've found just strapping an ankle weight around the valve achieve that goal.

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

I typically dive with eight pounds, evenly distributed between side pockets and back pockets. Never seemed to make much difference whether I used the back pockets, but I like the idea.

I did a trip to Cozumel with my steel plate and didn't wear a weight belt.   Was comfy and well trimmed.   But...it's an extra 6 pounds of luggage, the cardinal sin for photogs.

My fins are Apollo Biofins, made of pure - and heavy - rubber. There have been times I've blown air through my suit into my boots to get a bit of temporary trim there. These would be the first thing to go if I have to reduce weight I suppose, but I really like these fins. They have a lot of 'bite'. (And again, only set of fins I've owned since 2006.)

For truly warm water, I did sub out the dense jetfins for full foot Mares fins that straddle the line between diving and free diving length.