$156 million vs $150 million Locked

Started 2 weeks ago | Discussions
This thread is locked.
Doug Janis Contributing Member • Posts: 607
$156 million vs $150 million

JIP is worth DUS150 million.

YOY Olympus Imaging (it’s camera wing) is losing US$156 million.

JIP specializes in taking underperforming assets and parsing the out. They are not a turnaround company. In Japan, it is extremely expensive to downsize employees and pensions and salaries. So companies like JIP exist to take assets and sell them apart from those obligations.

In the last 5 years JIP has sold off assets of over 14 companies. Not one has it ever restructured or continued development. It’s doesn’t have the capital. JIP exists solely to manage brands for the benefit of shared agreements with shareholders. That’s why VAIO is 10% owned by Sony and why JIP outsources all design and manufacture to Chinese parts bin suppliers for components. JIP has no R&D, no internal development, no engineers, nothing. They are accountants.

They are a vulture fund of privately owned equity partners designed to get around Japanese pension, retention, and servicing laws.

This is very bad news for the Olympus brand and it’s invested customers. The Japanese news is all over this as well because JIP is notorious for Chinese outsourcing at a time when it is official domestic policy to onshore key industries. This is another example of Olympus having a tin ear.

In Japan apparently most external sales staff (non-Japanese) have been let go. This started months ago. Most of the software, design, and optical engineers have left or are moving to the medical imaging. Overseas assembly plants are being quietly shopped for real estate value alone. The glazing kilns are shutting down for consumer imaging. The company is preparing to only sell from inventory. New products are technically on hold until Olympus figures out how much to pay JIP to take these losses off their hands. Olympus Visionaries in some countries have already been told they must stick to NDAs and there is no marketing budget nor equipment available.

That’s right. The news out of Japan is that this is NOT a sale, but a divestment at loss. Olympus will have to pay JIP to take imaging, basically giving them the consumer patent portfolio in exchange. The reason for the press release is Olympus has to divulge now that it will be paying cash for JIP to take the assets. That warns shareholders. This was. OT a bout the loyal consumer. Anyone who thinks this is a deep pockets investor seeking a new product line, or this is an “under new management” improvement needs to know exactly what JIP is as a company. They exist to help Olympus get rid of their consumer Imaging portfolio entirely.

Likely this is the end of Olympus and Zuiko. The Japanese inside information is much more revealing than the web-based stories in English media. You have to go to the accounting and engineering boards in Japan to hear the dirt.

 Doug Janis's gear list:Doug Janis's gear list
Ricoh GR III Olympus E-M5 II Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
rashid7
rashid7 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,167
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

that's what i was afraid of )-;

-- hide signature --

Keep it fun!

peppermonkey Veteran Member • Posts: 5,136
And there goes...

that very faint light of hope.

-- hide signature --

Hubert
My non-digital gear: Agfa Isolette, Ricohflex VII, Bessa R, Bessa L, Zorky 4, Fed 2, Konica Big Mini, Konica Auto S2, K1000, Yashica Electro 35 GX, Recesky
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2034/2457111090_00eafbf8a4_m.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peppermonkey/

 peppermonkey's gear list:peppermonkey's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ3 Sigma DP2 Sony RX100 II Pentax K110D Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 +11 more
OP Doug Janis Contributing Member • Posts: 607
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Apologies for the typos etc. Started writing this is a bar in Roppongi, Tokyo. Was actually in a camera shop with some buds when we heard the new from the shopkeeper. Oohs and aaaahs. This kind of stuff is BIG in Tokyo. Led to beer, more beer and what turned into a wake for Olympus, hilariously called the “lying cheating” company by many since the scandal. This is yet another distasteful mark for the brand. Slyly letting off engineering talent while shopping the Crown Jewels to JIP who outsource to cheap China is unpopular amongst many here. We will see.

 Doug Janis's gear list:Doug Janis's gear list
Ricoh GR III Olympus E-M5 II Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
Jan Chelminski
Jan Chelminski Senior Member • Posts: 1,918
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Ouch, so it is falling on the bad side. Thanks for that information.

I feel bad for the Olympus workers and dedicated employees, but I am also very grateful that Oly's 'M' cameras made it this far!

After 1.5+ years with the 1X, I can just say, thanks for this one, the lenses and all the rest, going all the way back to a young photographer the 1970's. The small local camera shop happened to specialize in Olympus and when I needed to replace a broken Ricoh SLR, I ended up with an OM-2.

Nothing lasts forever, but Olympus did it their way and with a special style that will not be repeated.

Regards,

Jan

-- hide signature --

"The camera introduces us to to unconscious optics as does psychoanalysis to unconscious impulses"
------
"The art of the critic in a nutshell: to coin slogans without betraying ideas. The slogans of an inadequate criticism peddle ideas to fashion."
-------
- Walter Benjamin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Drawing is a constant correcting of errors, maybe a great deal of creation is exactly that."
-----
- John Berger
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...to photograph is to frame, and to frame is to exclude."
------
-- Susan Sontag

 Jan Chelminski's gear list:Jan Chelminski's gear list
Olympus E-M1 II Olympus OM-D E-M1X Olympus 25mm F1.2 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm 1:2.0 Macro Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 7-14mm 1:4.0 +4 more
rogerstpierre Veteran Member • Posts: 4,253
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

That definitely puts a different spin on it. What is the source of all that information?

-- hide signature --

Roger

 rogerstpierre's gear list:rogerstpierre's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm F1.8 Olympus 12-45mm F4 Pro +4 more
cba_melbourne Senior Member • Posts: 2,530
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Doug Janis wrote:

JIP is worth DUS150 million..................

+1, thanks for letting us know about the feeling in Japanese public.

I did see that 150M when I looked up on JIP yesterday, and shook my head. You are most probably right, Olympus has to pay JIP to take the imaging division off their worries.

 cba_melbourne's gear list:cba_melbourne's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Olympus E-M5 II Olympus PEN-F Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +13 more
alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 13,420
+1

Exactly what I think of.

The brand, might eventually ended up with a Chinese buyer, which might use it to increase their lens/camera price, or just like Kodak, disappears after one or two trails.

☹️

-- hide signature --

Albert
** Please feel free to download the original image I posted here and edit it as you like **

 alcelc's gear list:alcelc's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Panasonic G85 +10 more
C Sean Senior Member • Posts: 2,377
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Thank you for the information.

Hopefully Panasonic would pop over to JIP to do a bit of shopping. Without Olympus, Panasonic lens line up is weak.

LarsPolarBear
LarsPolarBear Contributing Member • Posts: 525
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Could not agree more...

just put my thoughts here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64075758

Yannis1976
Yannis1976 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,992
Re: The most informative email so far about Olympus...

Doug Janis wrote:

JIP is worth DUS150 million.

YOY Olympus Imaging (it’s camera wing) is losing US$156 million.

JIP specializes in taking underperforming assets and parsing the out. They are not a turnaround company. In Japan, it is extremely expensive to downsize employees and pensions and salaries. So companies like JIP exist to take assets and sell them apart from those obligations.

In the last 5 years JIP has sold off assets of over 14 companies. Not one has it ever restructured or continued development. It’s doesn’t have the capital. JIP exists solely to manage brands for the benefit of shared agreements with shareholders. That’s why VAIO is 10% owned by Sony and why JIP outsources all design and manufacture to Chinese parts bin suppliers for components. JIP has no R&D, no internal development, no engineers, nothing. They are accountants.

They are a vulture fund of privately owned equity partners designed to get around Japanese pension, retention, and servicing laws.

This is very bad news for the Olympus brand and it’s invested customers. The Japanese news is all over this as well because JIP is notorious for Chinese outsourcing at a time when it is official domestic policy to onshore key industries. This is another example of Olympus having a tin ear.

In Japan apparently most external sales staff (non-Japanese) have been let go. This started months ago. Most of the software, design, and optical engineers have left or are moving to the medical imaging. Overseas assembly plants are being quietly shopped for real estate value alone. The glazing kilns are shutting down for consumer imaging. The company is preparing to only sell from inventory. New products are technically on hold until Olympus figures out how much to pay JIP to take these losses off their hands. Olympus Visionaries in some countries have already been told they must stick to NDAs and there is no marketing budget nor equipment available.

That’s right. The news out of Japan is that this is NOT a sale, but a divestment at loss. Olympus will have to pay JIP to take imaging, basically giving them the consumer patent portfolio in exchange. The reason for the press release is Olympus has to divulge now that it will be paying cash for JIP to take the assets. That warns shareholders. This was. OT a bout the loyal consumer. Anyone who thinks this is a deep pockets investor seeking a new product line, or this is an “under new management” improvement needs to know exactly what JIP is as a company. They exist to help Olympus get rid of their consumer Imaging portfolio entirely.

Likely this is the end of Olympus and Zuiko. The Japanese inside information is much more revealing than the web-based stories in English media. You have to go to the accounting and engineering boards in Japan to hear the dirt.

...if its true. It seems true though sad.

I always considered Olympus a very innovative company (live composite, PDAF, in camera REAL focus stacking) but also "accused" them here for some decisions (mainly the huge M1X, some huge PRO lenses and the higher cost of their bodies)

Imagine I was looking to partially come back to m43 with a used M1 and 12-200 or 75-300...Now I am not sure...

 Yannis1976's gear list:Yannis1976's gear list
Olympus TG-5 Canon G5 X II Fujifilm XF 35mm F2 R WR Fujifilm 50mm F2 R WR Fujifilm XF 16-80mm F4
Jorginho Forum Pro • Posts: 15,167
No company can make good money with cams these days.

Your persepctive is clear, it also shows what we can expect from a company like JIP. Form another angle: who thinks that good money can be made with camera's if many are in pretty dire straits if I am correct.

It was very nice as long as it lasted.

m43s started with a headstart that they lost in a matter of a few years by not getting enough innovations. Some were pretty obvious ones, some other smay be less so.

Now it is all on Panasonic, which might not be bad because they have lost a competitor. But wone look at the G100 and a lot of hope is lost. They do not know what to make it seems. To much hit and miss in that cam. like the G90.

 Jorginho's gear list:Jorginho's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Olympus E-M1 II Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +8 more
Ixoye
Ixoye Forum Member • Posts: 67
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

This is very sad news, R.I.P. Olympus, I will cherish my Pen-F with much love as long as it lasts, then I probably buy a High-End Smartphone, I refuse to lug around a big heavy FF camera.

 Ixoye's gear list:Ixoye's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 Fisheye Panasonic Leica DG Summilux 15mm F1.7 ASPH
DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 2,542
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Doug Janis wrote:

In Japan, it is extremely expensive to downsize employees and pensions and salaries. So companies like JIP exist to take assets and sell them apart from those obligations.

They are a vulture fund of privately owned equity partners designed to get around Japanese pension, retention, and servicing laws.

So the poor employees are getting the middle finger. I hope Japan's government will find a way to force Olympus management to fulfill their legal duties towards the employees.

 DeathArrow's gear list:DeathArrow's gear list
Nikon D300 Nikon D610 Nikon D750 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro +5 more
geejay101 Regular Member • Posts: 371
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Great info. Thanks. Hopefully some entrepreneurial gals/guys will buy some Olympus assets and IP from JIP to keep some things going. Its not all worthless.

 geejay101's gear list:geejay101's gear list
Sigma DP1x Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Olympus E-M5 II Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +4 more
Jeff Veteran Member • Posts: 6,242
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Doug Janis wrote:

JIP is worth DUS150 million.

YOY Olympus Imaging (it’s camera wing) is losing US$156 million.

JIP specializes in taking underperforming assets and parsing the out. They are not a turnaround company. In Japan, it is extremely expensive to downsize employees and pensions and salaries. So companies like JIP exist to take assets and sell them apart from those obligations.

In the last 5 years JIP has sold off assets of over 14 companies. Not one has it ever restructured or continued development. It’s doesn’t have the capital. JIP exists solely to manage brands for the benefit of shared agreements with shareholders. That’s why VAIO is 10% owned by Sony and why JIP outsources all design and manufacture to Chinese parts bin suppliers for components. JIP has no R&D, no internal development, no engineers, nothing. They are accountants.

They are a vulture fund of privately owned equity partners designed to get around Japanese pension, retention, and servicing laws.

This is very bad news for the Olympus brand and it’s invested customers. The Japanese news is all over this as well because JIP is notorious for Chinese outsourcing at a time when it is official domestic policy to onshore key industries. This is another example of Olympus having a tin ear.

In Japan apparently most external sales staff (non-Japanese) have been let go. This started months ago. Most of the software, design, and optical engineers have left or are moving to the medical imaging. Overseas assembly plants are being quietly shopped for real estate value alone. The glazing kilns are shutting down for consumer imaging. The company is preparing to only sell from inventory. New products are technically on hold until Olympus figures out how much to pay JIP to take these losses off their hands. Olympus Visionaries in some countries have already been told they must stick to NDAs and there is no marketing budget nor equipment available.

That’s right. The news out of Japan is that this is NOT a sale, but a divestment at loss. Olympus will have to pay JIP to take imaging, basically giving them the consumer patent portfolio in exchange. The reason for the press release is Olympus has to divulge now that it will be paying cash for JIP to take the assets. That warns shareholders. This was. OT a bout the loyal consumer. Anyone who thinks this is a deep pockets investor seeking a new product line, or this is an “under new management” improvement needs to know exactly what JIP is as a company. They exist to help Olympus get rid of their consumer Imaging portfolio entirely.

Likely this is the end of Olympus and Zuiko. The Japanese inside information is much more revealing than the web-based stories in English media. You have to go to the accounting and engineering boards in Japan to hear the dirt.

Thanks, Doug.

By nature, I'm the sort of person who always sees upside in any given situation and therefore needs this type of dispassionate analysis grounded facts on the ground. It's invaluable, if sad, news.

I suppose there's still the chance that the remaining assets will find a home in a buyer interested in continuing the brand. My secret hope is that would DJI which has a solid record of innovation, uses the lens mount, and could broaden the market appeal. But that's wishful thinking.

In the meanwhile, while Olympus is circling the drain, there's the open question of whether mFT will continue as viable format from other manufacturers, Panasonic in particular. Do you have any thoughts or info in that regard?

 Jeff's gear list:Jeff's gear list
Olympus 45mm F1.2 Pro Olympus PEN E-P5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus OM-D E-M1X Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 150mm 1:2.0 +9 more
glassoholic
glassoholic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,480
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

This is sad but sensible reading. Hopefully Panasonic will keep m43 going.

The OM2 was my first dream camera back in 1978 and it seems the EM1X my last in 2019... 41 years.

I used Canon from 1986 until rejoining the Olympus fold 5 years ago, and have Panasonic m43 gear, but Olympus always felt like it suited me best.

Maitani must be turning in his grave...

-- hide signature --

Addicted To Glass
M43 equivalence: "Twice the fun with half the weight"
"You are a long time dead" -
Credit to whoever said that first and my wife for saying it to me... Make the best you can of every day!

glassoholic
glassoholic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,480
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

Doug Janis wrote:

JIP is worth DUS150 million.

YOY Olympus Imaging (it’s camera wing) is losing US$156 million.

JIP specializes in taking underperforming assets and parsing the out. They are not a turnaround company. In Japan, it is extremely expensive to downsize employees and pensions and salaries. So companies like JIP exist to take assets and sell them apart from those obligations.

In the last 5 years JIP has sold off assets of over 14 companies. Not one has it ever restructured or continued development. It’s doesn’t have the capital. JIP exists solely to manage brands for the benefit of shared agreements with shareholders. That’s why VAIO is 10% owned by Sony and why JIP outsources all design and manufacture to Chinese parts bin suppliers for components. JIP has no R&D, no internal development, no engineers, nothing. They are accountants.

They are a vulture fund of privately owned equity partners designed to get around Japanese pension, retention, and servicing laws.

This is very bad news for the Olympus brand and it’s invested customers. The Japanese news is all over this as well because JIP is notorious for Chinese outsourcing at a time when it is official domestic policy to onshore key industries. This is another example of Olympus having a tin ear.

In Japan apparently most external sales staff (non-Japanese) have been let go. This started months ago. Most of the software, design, and optical engineers have left or are moving to the medical imaging. Overseas assembly plants are being quietly shopped for real estate value alone. The glazing kilns are shutting down for consumer imaging. The company is preparing to only sell from inventory. New products are technically on hold until Olympus figures out how much to pay JIP to take these losses off their hands. Olympus Visionaries in some countries have already been told they must stick to NDAs and there is no marketing budget nor equipment available.

That’s right. The news out of Japan is that this is NOT a sale, but a divestment at loss. Olympus will have to pay JIP to take imaging, basically giving them the consumer patent portfolio in exchange. The reason for the press release is Olympus has to divulge now that it will be paying cash for JIP to take the assets. That warns shareholders. This was. OT a bout the loyal consumer. Anyone who thinks this is a deep pockets investor seeking a new product line, or this is an “under new management” improvement needs to know exactly what JIP is as a company. They exist to help Olympus get rid of their consumer Imaging portfolio entirely.

Likely this is the end of Olympus and Zuiko. The Japanese inside information is much more revealing than the web-based stories in English media. You have to go to the accounting and engineering boards in Japan to hear the dirt.

Thanks Doug... I hated reading this, but my gut feeling was this was going to be the reality.

If their employees do get shafted (benefits etc), I will never think the same or speak the same about Olympus again.

-- hide signature --

Addicted To Glass
M43 equivalence: "Twice the fun with half the weight"
"You are a long time dead" -
Credit to whoever said that first and my wife for saying it to me... Make the best you can of every day!

unhappymeal Regular Member • Posts: 310
Re: No company can make good money with cams these days.

Jorginho wrote:

Your persepctive is clear, it also shows what we can expect from a company like JIP. Form another angle: who thinks that good money can be made with camera's if many are in pretty dire straits if I am correct.

It was very nice as long as it lasted.

m43s started with a headstart that they lost in a matter of a few years by not getting enough innovations. Some were pretty obvious ones, some other smay be less so.

Now it is all on Panasonic, which might not be bad because they have lost a competitor. But wone look at the G100 and a lot of hope is lost. They do not know what to make it seems. To much hit and miss in that cam. like the G90.

I think it's pretty clear where Panasonic sees their imaging future. It's full frame in the L-alliance and cinematics. m4/3 will continue to get left-overs and parts bin releases like the G100.

 unhappymeal's gear list:unhappymeal's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm X-T30 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS +2 more
cba_melbourne Senior Member • Posts: 2,530
Re: $156 million vs $150 million

glassoholic wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

...... In Japan, it is extremely expensive to downsize employees and pensions and salaries. So companies like JIP exist to take assets and sell them apart from those obligations.

..................

If their employees do get shafted (benefits etc), I will never think the same or speak the same about Olympus again.

Somehow I cannot believe Olympus would do that. Or could afford to do that. I mean, what are all the remaining Olympus employees going to think of their company and it's leadership?  What would this do to their loyalty? Is Japan really moving towards American style employer ethics?

 cba_melbourne's gear list:cba_melbourne's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Olympus E-M5 II Olympus PEN-F Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +13 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads