Will Fujifilm be next?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
Cryhavoc38 Forum Member • Posts: 81
Re: Will Fujifilm be next? No.
3

Thanks for posting that link to the Fujifilm documentary. Fascinating!

i had no idea that Fujifilm marshalled together over 1500 volunteers to retrieve and clean over a million photographs and then find their owners after the Tsunami.

What a wonderful thing they did and the CEO's commitment to the old school photograph is why he is keeping the film side of the business alive..for those who still use film.

BryceM
BryceM Senior Member • Posts: 1,781
Re: Will Fujifilm be next? No.

boogisha wrote:

KennyXYZ wrote:

Olympus reveals plans to ditch its camera business

Fujifilm "ditched" its camera business long time ago, so to say, searching for income elsewhere - but still, they decided to keep their photography related unit (forever?), as they seem to see it as their "core", where everything started from.

Photo business is now a (very) small amount of Fujifilm`s operations, yet they seem to put a lot of pride/emotions in it.

(there was that "Fujifilm" movie linked a while ago, how company changed its course in order to survive photography digitalization and collapse of film, it`s well worth watching)

[edit] Here it is -- "Inside The Storm S2 - EP2: How Fujifilm Survived the Digital Age"[1]

I had the same take away from this video, but it's worth noting that CEOs change, and the next one may not be as sentimental about 写真文化 (photography culture)...

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biza43 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,670
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

The camera division represented only 5.5% of Olympus' revenue, and posted losses for 3 years in a row, so hardly surprising that a deal was made.

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mike lix Contributing Member • Posts: 980
Yes, of course.
1

One by one they will all shut their camera businesses until we end up with no new cameras at all.

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io_bg
io_bg Senior Member • Posts: 1,004
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

biza43 wrote:

The camera division represented only 5.5% of Olympus' revenue, and posted losses for 3 years in a row, so hardly surprising that a deal was made.

There's no deal yet. Olympus is hoping to finish the deal by the end of 2020.

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Maxxum Fan Regular Member • Posts: 452
Re: Yes, of course.

mike lix wrote:

One by one they will all shut their camera businesses until we end up with no new cameras at all.

I say 3 makers will be left. I'm not sure how well or not X Mount is doing

All I know is I go out, I see a lot of people taking pics with phones, and not many if any camera users out there. Cost of good phone isn't cheap, but lot cheaper than buying into an expensive ILC system

Future isn't looking good

John Gellings
John Gellings Veteran Member • Posts: 7,031
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?
2

MrSee wrote:

I think Fuji will do what everyone else does. As long as there is market demand and Fuji is making the profit they want to make, then they will be around. When demand shrinks and profits go away so will Fuji. They are not in the business to make cameras, they are in business to make $$$.

While they do not want to lose money, Fuji does seem to be one of the few companies that does operate with a great level of enthusiasm and love for photography and not just  love of profits.  Sigma comes to mind too.  However, we should all be thanking the popularity of Instax for all the great Fuji gear that we have available.

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Morris0
Morris0 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,180
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?
1

John Gellings wrote:

MrSee wrote:

I think Fuji will do what everyone else does. As long as there is market demand and Fuji is making the profit they want to make, then they will be around. When demand shrinks and profits go away so will Fuji. They are not in the business to make cameras, they are in business to make $$$.

While they do not want to lose money, Fuji does seem to be one of the few companies that does operate with a great level of enthusiasm and love for photography and not just love of profits. Sigma comes to mind too. However, we should all be thanking the popularity of Instax for all the great Fuji gear that we have available.

If Sigma is so profit motivated, then why do they make cameras that don't sell well?

Morris

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Greg7579
Greg7579 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,020
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

Kenny,

Go onto the Sony Forum, the Canon Forum, the Nikon Forum, the Medium Format Forum, the Panasonic Forum and the Leica Forum and do that exact post but ask it of their brand.

What is the point of doing that here on the Fuji Board?

Just having some fun?

No Kenny.  Fuji is not going to stop making cameras and lenses.

Do you feel better now?

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(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 221
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

roberthd12 wrote:

It's hopefully an opportunity for Fuji to grab the Oly users who will now start looking around.

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My guess is they either stay with their existing kit, or move to one of the big players, like Canon.

John Gellings
John Gellings Veteran Member • Posts: 7,031
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?
1

Morris0 wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

MrSee wrote:

I think Fuji will do what everyone else does. As long as there is market demand and Fuji is making the profit they want to make, then they will be around. When demand shrinks and profits go away so will Fuji. They are not in the business to make cameras, they are in business to make $$$.

While they do not want to lose money, Fuji does seem to be one of the few companies that does operate with a great level of enthusiasm and love for photography and not just love of profits. Sigma comes to mind too. However, we should all be thanking the popularity of Instax for all the great Fuji gear that we have available.

If Sigma is so profit motivated, then why do they make cameras that don't sell well?

Morris

I didn’t say anything of the sort...

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Truman Prevatt
Truman Prevatt Forum Pro • Posts: 11,185
Re: Yes, of course.
5

Maxxum Fan wrote:

mike lix wrote:

One by one they will all shut their camera businesses until we end up with no new cameras at all.

I say 3 makers will be left. I'm not sure how well or not X Mount is doing

All I know is I go out, I see a lot of people taking pics with phones, and not many if any camera users out there. Cost of good phone isn't cheap, but lot cheaper than buying into an expensive ILC system

Future isn't looking good

In 1970's and 80's you'd go out and see a lot of people taking pictures with their "Instamatics." You would seldom see a "real camera" if what one means by a real camera is one of the range finder brands around or an SLR.

Then digital happened.  A huge bubble built and what most people found was just like their parents they don't like lugging around a separate camera much less a camera and extra lenses.  The SLR, Leica, FujiX, Sony, etc. have a small appeal.  When the phone camera arrived - people had other options.  The camera bubble started to deflate in about 2008 and is in full drawdown now.

It's not that this period is unusual.  It is that the period from about 1990 through 2008 was the outlier.  Camera companies, Nikon, Canon and Olympus are imaging and optical companies.  The growth segment is in medical imaging.  From all sorts of optical instruments to photolithography and steppers for semiconductor productions these companies are involved.  With Olympus the camera segment was shrinking and the demand was shrinking so there was little growth potential.  One of their large investors was demanding they divest - selling it off so they could maximize their return to their shareholders.  The same has happened at Sony selling off the segment - remember the Sony cell phone and the Vaio PC.  Dan Lobe is back pushing Sony to chop off more low low growth potential divisions and cameras fits in that.

There will be change.  Fuji could somehow end up with a renegade large investor pressing Fuji to increase profit growth by selling off low growth divisions.  We don't know if that is happening or not.  But today with the camera market contracting - all things are possible.  Corporate wise Fujifilm has traditionally had a long history with photography.  It has had a tradition of designing and selling novel quality products.  But so did Olympus.  Today large investors - pension funds, hedge funds, etc., are becoming much more proactive to force companies to maximize stock value and return to their shareholders.  Companies like Sigma - which is privately owned can avoid those pressures.  But it is difficult for a publicly traded company whose has a legal and moral responsibility to its shareholders.  All one has to do is look at the number of camera brands that have disappeared over the last 50 years.   Businesses come and go in all industries.

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unhappymeal Contributing Member • Posts: 687
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?
1

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Olympus cameras will not disappear. They ownership has just changed. They will fire people - particularly managers, cut cost by moving all assembly out of Japan and try to make a profit. After all they spent money to obtain the resource so they are not going to throw it away. After Sony sold off their interest in Olympus - the handwriting was on the wall. But at the end of the day - the market is collapsing long before the pandemic and resulting recession.

Each company is different and I would not Olympus selling off the Olympus camera brand will have much to do with the long term viability of Fujifilm, Sony, etc.

Err, JIP is a private equity firm. Their sole reason for existing is to take dying brands, divest them of their assets and move on to the next carcass. As someone pointed out on the m4/3 board, they have completed 14 divestitures in the last 5 years. Their market cap is $150 million. Olympus Imaging was losing $156 million per year. Make no mistake, whatever remains will be Olympus in name only.

I feel sorry for the optimists. Here is a great thread on what is being reported in Japan:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4499867

Lars in this thread has a good analysis as to how small cap private equity firms operate (last page):

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4499766?page=2

biza43 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,670
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

io_bg wrote:

biza43 wrote:

The camera division represented only 5.5% of Olympus' revenue, and posted losses for 3 years in a row, so hardly surprising that a deal was made.

There's no deal yet. Olympus is hoping to finish the deal by the end of 2020.

It's a deal: 1st step MoU, finalstep sale at YE2020.

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biza43 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,670
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

As of March 2020

https://petapixel.com/2020/04/13/mirrorless-camera-sales-dropped-by-50-in-march-according-to-bcn-data/

50% drop Y on Y, not looking good.

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unhappymeal Contributing Member • Posts: 687
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

biza43 wrote:

As of March 2020

https://petapixel.com/2020/04/13/mirrorless-camera-sales-dropped-by-50-in-march-according-to-bcn-data/

50% drop Y on Y, not looking good.

That data is brutal, but it's also amazing to see the EOS M50 continues to top the charts year after year.

Morris0
Morris0 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,180
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?
3

John Gellings wrote:

Morris0 wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

MrSee wrote:

I think Fuji will do what everyone else does. As long as there is market demand and Fuji is making the profit they want to make, then they will be around. When demand shrinks and profits go away so will Fuji. They are not in the business to make cameras, they are in business to make $$$.

While they do not want to lose money, Fuji does seem to be one of the few companies that does operate with a great level of enthusiasm and love for photography and not just love of profits. Sigma comes to mind too. However, we should all be thanking the popularity of Instax for all the great Fuji gear that we have available.

If Sigma is so profit motivated, then why do they make cameras that don't sell well?

Morris

I didn’t say anything of the sort...

Looks like my fuzzy head wile having my morning coffee read what you said incorrectly and I'm sorry.  I agree Sigma is very enthusiastic about photography.

Morris

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BenInUK Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?

Let's say for a moment that Fuji announces tomorrow something similar and closes their camera business. I would be disappointed of course, but it wouldn't change the fact that my X-T3 is a great camera. Lenses might become harder to find but the current lineup can cover most situations and there's still the used market.

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Batdude
Batdude Veteran Member • Posts: 4,751
One thing I have learned is this
7

KennyXYZ wrote:

Olympus reveals plans to ditch its camera business

Absolutely NOTHING is safe in this world. Our health, our life, our jobs, and definitely no business is, so I find it really interesting how some spit out the world “no” so fast. But hey maybe they know the future.

One thing I will say is this, it is not going to be easy on Fuji because the FF mirrorless war is just beginning and new and used FF bodies are going to flood everywhere at the same or below prices as APS-C.

Im being very honest with you, I’m (not sure) if I’ll ever again spend another $1899 for an APS-C camera and I’m actually keeping my eye on certain others brands, but they are FF. That’s the truth.

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Baltic Beachbum
Baltic Beachbum Forum Member • Posts: 85
Re: Will Fujifilm be next?
2

Greg7579 wrote:

Kenny,

Go onto the Sony Forum, the Canon Forum, the Nikon Forum, the Medium Format Forum, the Panasonic Forum and the Leica Forum and do that exact post but ask it of their brand.

What is the point of doing that here on the Fuji Board?

Just having some fun?

No Kenny. Fuji is not going to stop making cameras and lenses.

Do you feel better now?

That's a bit harsh. It's a legitimate question; they don't have a huge market share and he's a Fuji shooter.

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