100-300 Panasonic not as Sharp as i wanted

Carlo11 wrote:

Thanks. I’ll start with SILKYPIX!

i was hopind that SP10pro also got in this type of offer:

https://silkypix.isl.co.jp/en/ext/special/dsp9pana/

3980 yen is 38 euro! (maybe they bounce one out in the fall....)

then 10pro is in upgrade, so you need to have a older one, 109 euro. fresh from the bench 200 something euro.

https://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/p/support/download/

here do you find the SE version.

One thing i should mention, the support and tutorials in silkypix is a "bit less" then say LR or DxOPL. Most is figure it out yourself and read the manual.

What you could do is post some image's you did and ask to help or even provide the rawfile if you don't mind losing control over it. (most of my image's with out people on it arn't that special i am afraid someone uses it for making millions and i can't get a fee.. ;-))

Use the ooc-jpegs as guideline for a wile. try to improve those with raw.

in raw you have aftershot WB, better noise/detail control, better color control in general, better shadow and highlight recovery. And nondestructive editing until you puss the jpeg and edit that.

For only some extra denoising DxONIK's v1 is still freeware, check that out it's great learning stuf and define2 works quite well for tiff's and jpegs.

And there are some detail extractor filters also. works for tiff and jpegs play with the tools and see if it's fits your use.

Here

Carlo11 wrote:

No offence! As i said just test pictures for the lens sharpness!

No problem. I realized your intent, it was my retort to the earlier responder’s comment about composition. They clearly didn’t understand what I was saying. Maybe I was being a bit too oblique. Oh well…

You’re lucky to have such subjects to shoot. The egret in the tree, behind branches, is especially difficult to focus correctly. I have lots of shots of sharp twigs and leaves with a blurry bird behind. That lens does take practice to get the best from it.

The swan’s head is quite good, btw.

Keep at it!

In the first, 1/640 would not be fast enough. In the second the focus is at the Deer's rump (look at the grass). The third looks good and you will not generally get definition in white feathers unless with cross-lighting. On the 4th you shot at F11, and would suffer fair amount of diffraction.

kbouk wrote:

I have the same lens, you have to be careful when you have long distances targets , use 280mm rather 300mm and crop after or if you use 300mm close the aperture 1-2 clicks. Do a comparison to see how your lens copy behaves.
No problem at 300mm with open aperture when the target is close enough. From 100-240mm my copy gives very good results wide open. I’m very satisfy with lens performance and I have compare it with more expensive lenses (old 50-200/2.8-3.5 SWD, LEICA 200/2.8 with 1.4X TC)

I like the closing aperture trick (for max resolution too). I find on the Oly 75-300 you need to close it down to f/9 for best results. Have you done tests with the Panny, and what did you find was its best aperture setting at the tele end? What did you need to close it down to to completely remove shadows from the corners? With the 75-300 I needed to go all the way to f/10 to completely remove shadows, but the best resolution was actually at f/9 so I keep it there, getting a slight amount of corner shadowing.

meow wrote:

Good! I won't go to jail for copyright infringement then.

JPG is no hindrance for this. Many "dull" looking photos gain by expanding the DR. It doesn't fit all images of course, but provided there should be something all black and something all white in the image, see to it there really is and the photo "lifts".

And even if you don't want the tonality to stretch from 0 to 100, you can nudge it until it looks right to you.

Note: I don't use a mainstream editor. This function is probably called something else than the self explanatory "Expand Dynamic Range" in your software, but I think most editors should have it.

what software did you use?  it does good work!

I'm working with FastStone.

Eric Nepean wrote:

Carlo11 wrote:

Thanks! I haven’t done Much tests. Here are Some samples shots (almost) wilde open and with bigger f-stops. I dont see much difference (a good thing😀)

F 5.3

F8

F9

F5.6

Tests of the mkii show that the peak sharpness is at F7. With your shots at F5.6 and F9, you have straddled the peak very nicely

More informative would be shots at F5.6, F6.3, F7.1, F8 (at 300mm)

The other point to note is that sharpness at center is typically the best. Where the lens starts to fail first is at the corners, and the edges (measure midway between two corners).

However, the depth of field is quite narrow wide open, and the fieold of focus is typically not flat.

Option 1) Oject with a flat surface - BUT the lens should be postioned exactly at right angles to the surface

Option 2) Use one smaller defined object (like your soup can label).

2.1 point the lens center at the object and fix the focus; take image(s)

2.2 Rotate the camera slightly so that the object falls at the edge of the image; take image(s).

2.3 Refocus on the object with the object positioned at image edge; fix focus; take image(s)

2.4 Rotate the camera so that the object is at image center; take image(s)

Now you will see the effects sharpness fall off from center to edge, as well as the effect of object plane curvature.

BTW in your deer picture I observe the deer's butt is in perfect focus. Not so much the eyes.:-D (done that, got the T-shirt)

Nice testing, Eric!  I did similar testing with the Oly 75-300 at the tele end and found peak resolution was at f/9 but f/10 was needed to remove all corner shadows.  I sacrifice the corners (slightly) to keep it at the peak resolution of f/9 though.  What did your testing find was the f stop needed to remove all corner shadows with the 100-300 lens?  Also does the peak resolution of f/7.1 with that lens apply just at the tele end or for all focal lengths?

Astrotripper wrote:

joeletx wrote:

Because F8.0 is more than adequate for m43 cropped factor is 2.

Yeah, I believed that nonsense when I started shooting with my 100-300. Learned it the hard way how wrong this mantra is.

with the 75-300 peak resolution is at f/9 so f/11 is actually better than f/8

also dont shoot anything faster than f/9 at full tele if you dont want corner shadowing.

Hi Carlo

I use the following set up for lively wild life which helps to raise the percentage of good focusing.

I saved my set up to C1 option on my G80. As it can be a bit trying under some circumstances, but with frequent use I found it useful.

Setting as follows.

Go to Menu and choose Spanner & C icon

Then Page 2

Set "Half press release" to ON

Set "Eye sensor AF" to ON

That is all!

Now this sets shutter button so that you only need a half press to actuate, but it will only actuate if it is in focus.

But the first shot will most likely not be focused on the intended subject, but after that first shot you will then be able to pinpoint the subject better and have a good chance of getting some decent exposures.

You need to practice on some subject that is inert, a statue or garden Gnome.
And maybe you will find it is just what you need, I find it very good for BIF.

Of course you must also sort out which focusing setting you want to use, this is where the practicing will help.

And then there is one item which will be an aid for BIF and that is a RDS.

RDS = Red Dot Sight.

Wish you luck, and keep safe.

F7.1 if i need the shutterspeed, f8 for starters and f9/11 for dof need

Ofcaorse at 100mm f7.1 or f6.3 is fine.

It's al about Dof related sharpnesfield and AF point placement.

Vignetting can be corrected so that's a non issue for me.

spike29 wrote:

F7.1 if i need the shutterspeed, f8 for starters and f9/11 for dof need

f9-f11 is squarely in the diffraction zone. Avoid using those, unless loss of sharpness and detail is what you’re looking for.

The majority of M4/3 lenses hit optimum sharpness at f4 or f5.6.

Of course at 100mm f7.1 or f6.3 is fine.

Actually, f7.1 is ideal, regardless of zoom range used.

It's al about Dof related sharpnesfield and AF point placement.

At f7.1, your equivalent f-stop is f14.2, so depth of field really isn’t (much of) an issue.

When shooting with the 100-300mm, the simplest way to ensure optimum image quality, is to simply set it at f7.1 and leave it there. Adjust shutter speed and ISO accordingly.

If you look at thread after thread in the forum (rotten search engine be damned), you’ll find the same technique recommended over and over. I was skeptical at first, but in real-world use, it proved to be accurate.

jeffharris wrote:

spike29 wrote:

F7.1 if i need the shutterspeed, f8 for starters and f9/11 for dof need

f9-f11 is squarely in the diffraction zone. Avoid using those, unless loss of sharpness and detail is what you’re looking for.

Yes but it's a decending slope not a steep step down. At 300mm is a horizontal shot a very thin dof. The diffraction is less visible then the sharpnes loss of the borders of DoF

The majority of M4/3 lenses hit optimum sharpness at f4 or f5.6.

Also true, m43 is wide open or 1 stop down at it's sharpest but the longer telezooms has other problems. F6.3 at 10m is dof .25m at 20m away it becomes 1,03m

F9 is at 10m 300mm 0.36m which is flat so often a small box in the image which is rather funny looking.

Of course at 100mm f7.1 or f6.3 is fine.

Actually, f7.1 is ideal, regardless of zoom range used.

It's al about Dof related sharpnesfield and AF point placement.

At f7.1, your equivalent f-stop is f14.2, so depth of field really isn’t (much of) an issue.

When shooting with the 100-300mm, the simplest way to ensure optimum image quality, is to simply set it at f7.1 and leave it there. Adjust shutter speed and ISO accordingly.

What i try to say is don't be to affraid to go into diffractionzone it isn't a cliff but a decendingslope and you could see less blur then sticking to f7.1

If you look at thread after thread in the forum (rotten search engine be damned), you’ll find the same technique recommended over and over. I was skeptical at first, but in real-world use, it proved to be accurate.

I know it's a optimal performens but i consider image looks also on DoF range. (bokeh and subject isolation isn't always wanted.😊

AllFlawed wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

spike29 wrote:

F7.1 if i need the shutterspeed, f8 for starters and f9/11 for dof need

f9-f11 is squarely in the diffraction zone. Avoid using those, unless loss of sharpness and detail is what you’re looking for.

No diffraction below this? Instant onset of diffraction effect at f9? What exactly does diffraction zone mean?

I would though diffraction increases as aperture decreases and pin hole sharpening goes the other way and there is just an optimum point somewhere rather than any specific zone.

Ahh, it's time to cite a 'paper' from Kjell Carlsson. It explains the concepts with formulas. It also explains why a sharper lens can produce soft-looking images.

https://www.kth.se/social/files/542d2d2df276546ca71dffaa/Pinhole.pdf

Also given that the aperture will vary at different focal lengths for the same f number, with a different proportion of total light running over the aperture blades, the actual optimum points expressed in f numbers for such a long zoom lens seems difficult to understand,

I think the forum truth is that it is the F-number and not the physical/optical aperture size (in mm) that matters. It would make much more sense if it was just the opposite (f/22 would not be an issue with f=300, but f/22 at f=12mm would be result in a very blurry image). Someone should clarify this for good.

AllFlawed wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

spike29 wrote:

F7.1 if i need the shutterspeed, f8 for starters and f9/11 for dof need

f9-f11 is squarely in the diffraction zone. Avoid using those, unless loss of sharpness and detail is what you’re looking for.

No diffraction below this? Instant onset of diffraction effect at f9? What exactly does diffraction zone mean?

Generally, after f5.6 diffraction begins. After that it gets worse the smaller the aperture used. Once you’ve passed the point where diffraction starts, I’d call that the diffraction zone.

That’s pretty simple, no?

If there’s a more official designation, enlighten me.

pannumon wrote:

AllFlawed wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

spike29 wrote:

F7.1 if i need the shutterspeed, f8 for starters and f9/11 for dof need

f9-f11 is squarely in the diffraction zone. Avoid using those, unless loss of sharpness and detail is what you’re looking for.

No diffraction below this? Instant onset of diffraction effect at f9? What exactly does diffraction zone mean?

I would though diffraction increases as aperture decreases and pin hole sharpening goes the other way and there is just an optimum point somewhere rather than any specific zone.

Ahh, it's time to cite a 'paper' from Kjell Carlsson. It explains the concepts with formulas. It also explains why a sharper lens can produce soft-looking images.

https://www.kth.se/social/files/542d2d2df276546ca71dffaa/Pinhole.pdf

Also given that the aperture will vary at different focal lengths for the same f number, with a different proportion of total light running over the aperture blades, the actual optimum points expressed in f numbers for such a long zoom lens seems difficult to understand,

I think the forum truth is that it is the F-number and not the physical/optical aperture size (in mm) that matters. It would make much more sense if it was just the opposite (f/22 would not be an issue with f=300, but f/22 at f=12mm would be result in a very blurry image). Someone should clarify this for good.

Consider this:

Diffraction is caused by light passing through a hole, and the effect is proportional to the hole size over the wavelength of the light. The limiting hole in a well desgned lens is the aperture mechanism.

But we don't really know how big the aperture is - not easily

We see the entrance pupil, which is the aperture seen through all the optical elements in front of the aperture. For telephoto lenses, this is usually slightly smaller than the diameter of the front optical element. (clearly not the case for the 12-100/4 however)

The sensor "sees" the exit pupil, which is the aperture seen through all the optical elements behind the aperture. The diffracted light is also affected by the optical elements behind the aperture, as is the light which is not diffracted.

The front focal length is often different than the rear focal length.

I think we best post this in  the Photo Science and Technology forum.

Carlo11 wrote:

Hallo, First contribution To this site! I have bought The Panasonic 100-300 mii in combination with a G80. Here are Some pictures. It lacks real sharpness in my opinion. I keep Shutter speed fast enough to reduce motion blur. And use AFS and 1-area for focussing. Any thoughts?

I watched all samples at 100% on my PC.

IMO, no issue as regards lens sharpness, only slightly misfocused due to shallow depth of field.

Remember 300mm in M43 is very long telephoto, 600mm FF equivalent. Nailing the focus with the best matching DOF to get a sharp subject poping out of a blurrier foreground/background is the main challenge.

In the first, the focus is on the leaves just in front of the bird.

F6.3 1/640 iso 640

F8 1/640 iso 400

In the above picture, the focus is on the legs of the deer, which is closer than the deer's head.

In the gull and cygnus close-up below, focus is on the eye or beak, but depth of field is too shallow to get enough of the bird in focus.

F7.1 1/2000 iso 800

F11 1/640 iso 2500

In all pictures above, the in focus parts are quite sharp, but not exactly where you expected them.