Olympus make an E-P6 like this

BG28 wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

Nice to have an electronic shutter too, but doesn't the E-P5 already have that?

No, it doesn't. It came out before that feature debuted on m43 cameras. It DOES have a faster max shutter speed (mech) than the EM-5i, fwiw.

Okay, then any new Olympus would naturally have an electronic shutter.  I think all of them in the last 5 years or so have had one, haven't they?

The idea of a pop-up vf is interesting, though the PEN-F seems the only body that could accommodate it. The Pens are def too small.

The E-P5 is not too small.

I like the idea of trying to come up with a creative solution for left-eye shooters.. that's how innovation works, right?

While it would be nice, after all these years I don't expect the current camera companies to do anything.  The pop-up EVF idea is a fairly simple thing that, IMO, would help a lot and make the wonderful E-P5 more attractive for left-eye m4/3 shooters while being just as attractive to right-eye shooters and just as attractive for all shooters who don't want or use an EVF.

Several years ago I played with an E-P5 + VF-4 many times at stores in Tokyo.  Liked it a lot except for the reasons I already stated.  An E-P6 could, of course, still use the VF-4 for those who like it better than the pop-up EVF.

I mean, the 16MP sensor has been nice, but it's time for the 20 MP. IT just captures textures better. At a very minimum make the 16MP have no AA filter.

Also make the IBIS better. Maybe as good as the PenF or just like Em5 MKIII- maybe it fits.

Like your idea of a pushable EVF that can lift a bit. I don't think it will be quite like Sony's ultra compacts. But I don't mind you can "lift it" a bit.

Give it the best Contrast AF that can be done with the latest Turbo Pic, particularly in low light, and make sure the size doesn't exceed this E-P5.

I would get one. Other than that, I am ok with an EPL-11 with the 20MP and no AA filter.

Update: oh one more thing- I see the E-P5 model has like a textured plastic that holds well for skin on the rear thumb rest.  This is GREAT.

My Pen_F like many Pen-Fs have had its thumb rubber come off. And my Em5 MKIII is starting to expand, and seems to be coming off a little.

They need to get this right. Funny that the E-P5 seems to do the right solution. Why on Earth did they change.

Henry Richardson wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

By the way, these cameras are even smaller than the E-P5.

As they should be since they have a smaller sensor and way less controls

Have you ever used one of these pop up EVFs. Especially when they do not simply pop up. I used one in a HX90 and you pop it up then pull it back. Put it to your eye then find it has not been yanked back far enough so you hold the unit not to cause too much strain then pull back hard. The Mk VI and VII long zoom cameras have a new auto deploying one but they are not licensing it out.

This stuff looks good on paper but there is always a practical downside. Just buy an EM10 as I bought the original G5X to avoid these fiddly gadgets. I am sure Sony would not have gone to the expense of the auto deploying one if the original was OK and even this had problems coming up so fast the dioptre adjustment was shifting though you hear of people still holding their hand over them to slow things down. The G5X II you display does not have this refinement so Sony are not licensing it out and could Olympus afford it?

Looking at your response above I suppose it is better if you do ignore me.

BG28 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Update: oh one more thing- I see the E-P5 model has like a textured plastic that holds well for skin on the rear thumb rest. This is GREAT.

My Pen_F like many Pen-Fs have had its thumb rubber come off. And my Em5 MKIII is starting to expand, and seems to be coming off a little.

They need to get this right. Funny that the E-P5 seems to do the right solution. Why on Earth did they change.

Obviously we want our $1000 cameras to come complete, but in the event you need more thumb rest, I recommend using sugru . I used it to beef up the grip on the front of my E-P5. It's a dull black so it doesn't stick out too much, and I patterned it to match the leatherette covering.

I do not like the plastic grip on the EP5. Initial reviews said that it is hard rubber.

Anyway, I made my own from real natural rubber - one for the front and one for the thumb rest at the back.

These provide a firm grip on the body, even with larger lenses like the 100-300.

Allan

Natural rubber grip

Natural rubber grip

Raist3d wrote:

I mean, the 16MP sensor has been nice, but it's time for the 20 MP. IT just captures textures better. At a very minimum make the 16MP have no AA filter.

Also make the IBIS better. Maybe as good as the PenF or just like Em5 MKIII- maybe it fits.

Like your idea of a pushable EVF that can lift a bit. I don't think it will be quite like Sony's ultra compacts. But I don't mind you can "lift it" a bit.

Give it the best Contrast AF that can be done with the latest Turbo Pic, particularly in low light, and make sure the size doesn't exceed this E-P5.

I would get one. Other than that, I am ok with an EPL-11 with the 20MP and no AA filter.

Update: oh one more thing- I see the E-P5 model has like a textured plastic that holds well for skin on the rear thumb rest. This is GREAT.

My Pen_F like many Pen-Fs have had its thumb rubber come off. And my Em5 MKIII is starting to expand, and seems to be coming off a little.

They need to get this right. Funny that the E-P5 seems to do the right solution. Why on Earth did they change.

Yeah, as I said, we can all think of more things to change and I have a list too.   I was just saying at aminimum the E-P5 + pop-up EVF and electronic shutter.

BG28 wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Update: oh one more thing- I see the E-P5 model has like a textured plastic that holds well for skin on the rear thumb rest. This is GREAT.

My Pen_F like many Pen-Fs have had its thumb rubber come off. And my Em5 MKIII is starting to expand, and seems to be coming off a little.

They need to get this right. Funny that the E-P5 seems to do the right solution. Why on Earth did they change.

Obviously we want our $1000 cameras to come complete, but in the event you need more thumb rest, I recommend using sugru . I used it to beef up the grip on the front of my E-P5. It's a dull black so it doesn't stick out too much, and I patterned it to match the leatherette covering.

My issue is not that I want more thumb rest.  My issue is that the rubber of the thumb rest kinda stretches, unglues and falls off.

Henry Richardson wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

I mean, the 16MP sensor has been nice, but it's time for the 20 MP. IT just captures textures better. At a very minimum make the 16MP have no AA filter.

Also make the IBIS better. Maybe as good as the PenF or just like Em5 MKIII- maybe it fits.

Like your idea of a pushable EVF that can lift a bit. I don't think it will be quite like Sony's ultra compacts. But I don't mind you can "lift it" a bit.

Give it the best Contrast AF that can be done with the latest Turbo Pic, particularly in low light, and make sure the size doesn't exceed this E-P5.

I would get one. Other than that, I am ok with an EPL-11 with the 20MP and no AA filter.

Update: oh one more thing- I see the E-P5 model has like a textured plastic that holds well for skin on the rear thumb rest. This is GREAT.

My Pen_F like many Pen-Fs have had its thumb rubber come off. And my Em5 MKIII is starting to expand, and seems to be coming off a little.

They need to get this right. Funny that the E-P5 seems to do the right solution. Why on Earth did they change.

Yeah, as I said, we can all think of more things to change and I have a list too. I was just saying at aminimum the E-P5 + pop-up EVF and electronic shutter.

Oh I think we agree for the most part. I think the additions to what I ask is just all current tech level of releasing say the E-P5 now.

BG28 wrote:

Nice job!

I really like the design of the E-PL5, where one could remove the "grip" from the front of the body. That removeablity really opened the door for having light-, medium- and heavy-duty grips all tailored to use-case.

I also have an EPL5. Since my EPL5 is silver, I painted the original black grip silver and use the camera with a silver Panny 12-32.

Also, I made a grip for it from nylon and a wooden dowel.

Allan

All silver EPL5

EPL5 with DIY grip

DIY grip

DIY grip

but modern. Tilt LCD.  Maybe small pop up LCD.

I am split between having an EVF and no built in flash.  And would be nice if they could put the new reduced IBIS mechanism of the EM5 MKIII.

Henry Richardson wrote:

​I shoot with my left eye and there has never been a camera with an eye-level viewfinder in the 50 or so years I have been photographing that has been ideal. Naturally, the camera companies always prioritize making the ergonomics best for people who shoot with their right eye since that is the majority. With m4/3 though using my left eye means that the controls on the back on the right side are sometimes rather inconvenient and slow to use because my face is over there too and makes quick adjustments with my thumb not so good. It also means that although I would like to use the touch AF and ability to move the AF point around with my thumb I always have to disable that function because my face causes the AF point to randomly jump around at the most inopportune times.

I have used various 35mm SLRs and various DSLRs over the years. All bigger than the E-M1II and G9. My most used DSLR was my Sony A700 with IBIS, a pretty good Sony 12mp sensor, and many rather nice features. I traveled with it quite a bit and got some good photos with it in various countries. While a larger camera such as the A700 makes using my left eye better (because there is more space on the right side of the back for my thumb to get at controls while looking in the viewfinder) it still isn't great and nowhere near as good as it is for right eye shooters since the cameras are all designed for them. Note that the A700 does not have a touch screen with touch AF, touch movement of the AF point, etc. The joystick/button on the back is the furthest over my thumb had to go while looking through the VF. I had it programmed for back button AF so that a press of that combo joystick/button would AF and the shutter button would just take the photo. I would like to use the m4/3 touch screen on my cameras, but because I use my left eye I have to keep it turned off. And also all the other rear controls meant to be used with your thumb while looking through the EVF.

I was, I think, the first person on these forums to hold an E-M5 when it came out in Tokyo in March 2012. After several times playing around with it I made this post and a long thread. My primary ergonomic disappointment was with regards to using it with the left eye. The E-M10, E-M10II, E-M5II, etc. were slightly better, but still not all that good.

E-M5 ergonomics are disappointing

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41089743

I think a camera sort of like I described, i.e., E-P6 with pop-up EVF in the corner would probably work well enough that the touch screen AF could even be used. Still a small camera that we like, but better for left eye shooters and just as good for right eye shooters.

PoohBill wrote:

After buying and using each of the P-series, along with their corresponding VF-series, I finally bought the Mark III version of the M5 and am having a fun time with the 12-40 Pro. Having said that, I agree with you that the Sony-class, pop-out viewfinder in place of the flash on any next generation P-series, relegating flash to the hot shoe, would make a nice looking camera, and provide a better balance of features.

Sony and Canon have been doing this with non-ILC cameras for awhile. There may be other companies that I have forgotten. I think none have done it with an ILC though. The E-P5 successor seems to be perfect for it because the body style and shape would naturally make a pop-up EVF both doable and desirable, IMO.

My P5 w/VF-4 is really fun to use until I have to stuff it into a bag and grab the binoculars.

Yes, I know what you mean.

Henry Richardson wrote:

Put the EVF where the E-P5 flash is and just have a tiny external flash provided like the PEN-F.

Of course, it would be nice to have both the pop-up EVF and the flash. Doesn't seem like there is space because the only place is where the hotshoe is located and you don't want to get rid of the hotshoe. I have an idea though. Put the flash in the pop-up EVF housing. These days these flash units are tiny -- I took a look at the size of the flash in my E-M10II, GX7II/GX85, and TX1/ZS100. I bet the designers could figure out how to fit one in the EVF housing and it would have the advantage that it will pop-up in the corner which is the better location rather than the center.  Elevated and corner.

The little external flash that comes with the PEN-F, etc. is nice and it could either be included with the E-P6 or maybe better sell it separately for a reasonable price so that the E-P6 price could be slightly lower. Say, $50 or $60. Many of us already have the little flash anyway because it came with another body we bought. In my case the PEN-F.

Sell the flash separately  simplify the essence of the new higher end pen

Or put a built in flash a la Fuji X100 series that only works with the small primes , still

leaving space for the pop up evf