Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Started May 25, 2020 | Discussions
Eric Nepean
Eric Nepean Veteran Member • Posts: 5,837
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Some years ago I purchased a used Canon FDn 85mm F1.8, which I use with my Matabones focal reducer.

I see the price of the sFDn 85mm F1.8 has gone up; they are now at least 50% more than what I paid, and obout double that of the Neewer 85mm F1.8

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Cheers
Eric
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OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Eric Nepean wrote:

Some years ago I purchased a used Canon FDn 85mm F1.8, which I use with my Matabones focal reducer.

I see the price of the sFDn 85mm F1.8 has gone up; they are now at least 50% more than what I paid, and obout double that of the Neewer 85mm F1.8

I have a few “85’s” in FF fov eq focal length - I find them all to my satisfaction more likely because that focal suits me.  I never progressed to the Canon 85/1.8 in any form though - not sure why as it has a good reputation.  I suppose that I have had the EF 85/1.2 for many years.  In my first tentative steps away from the EF mount I did buy a Samsun 85/1.4 which is also a good lens.  Then in M4/3 I made the trifecta with Panasonic Nocticron 42.5/1.2 and 42.5/1.7 and the Olympus 45/1.8 - all great lenses in their own right - I hardly needed all three ....

Then recently the Neewer 85/1.8 which seems to shoot well above its humble origin and price.  I find it hard to believe that the lens that could get a poor review as a 6 element 6 group “aps-c” lens could do so well as the rumoured 10/7 or 9/7 Version that “does” FF image circle.  In any case it is not a Neewer as it is unbranded - just like its maker sells equally unbranded as “Kelda” under its own brand name.

The bedrock price lens that is a quite good lens is a bit like buying that second hand lens you think might be a bit tired and finding that it images perfectly.

I suppose we all end up owning lenses where we simply don’t know what optical formula is in use.

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Tom Caldwell

Eric Nepean
Eric Nepean Veteran Member • Posts: 5,837
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

I suppose we all end up owning lenses where we simply don’t know what optical formula is in use.

My two most recent purchases are a Meyer-Optik Görlitz Oreston 50mm f/1.8 and a Pentacon/Meyer-Optik Görlitz Orestegor 300mm F/4 (still in transit).

I guess I'll never know the optical formulas for these.

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Cheers
Eric
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OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Eric Nepean wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

I suppose we all end up owning lenses where we simply don’t know what optical formula is in use.

My two most recent purchases are a Meyer-Optik Görlitz Oreston 50mm f/1.8 and a Pentacon/Meyer-Optik Görlitz Orestegor 300mm F/4 (still in transit).

I guess I'll never know the optical formulas for these.

I think that we can find the optical formulas Eric - I should try and see how I go.  The Orestegor 300/4.0 is quite a large heavy lens.  It reeks build quality but I think it is really a lens for a large stationery tripod - probably waiting patiently fro a certain bird to land on a prefocused branch .....

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Tom Caldwell

Letsgokoulos
Letsgokoulos Senior Member • Posts: 2,365
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Eric Nepean wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

I suppose we all end up owning lenses where we simply don’t know what optical formula is in use.

My two most recent purchases are a Meyer-Optik Görlitz Oreston 50mm f/1.8 and a Pentacon/Meyer-Optik Görlitz Orestegor 300mm F/4 (still in transit).

I guess I'll never know the optical formulas for these.

Could this link help ?

Marc

petrochemist Veteran Member • Posts: 3,054
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt
1

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

Some years ago I purchased a used Canon FDn 85mm F1.8, which I use with my Matabones focal reducer.

I see the price of the sFDn 85mm F1.8 has gone up; they are now at least 50% more than what I paid, and obout double that of the Neewer 85mm F1.8

I have a few “85’s” in FF fov eq focal length - I find them all to my satisfaction more likely because that focal suits me. I never progressed to the Canon 85/1.8 in any form though - not sure why as it has a good reputation. I suppose that I have had the EF 85/1.2 for many years. In my first tentative steps away from the EF mount I did buy a Samsun 85/1.4 which is also a good lens. Then in M4/3 I made the trifecta with Panasonic Nocticron 42.5/1.2 and 42.5/1.7 and the Olympus 45/1.8 - all great lenses in their own right - I hardly needed all three ....

Then recently the Neewer 85/1.8 which seems to shoot well above its humble origin and price. I find it hard to believe that the lens that could get a poor review as a 6 element 6 group “aps-c” lens could do so well as the rumoured 10/7 or 9/7 Version that “does” FF image circle. In any case it is not a Neewer as it is unbranded - just like its maker sells equally unbranded as “Kelda” under its own brand name.

The bedrock price lens that is a quite good lens is a bit like buying that second hand lens you think might be a bit tired and finding that it images perfectly.

I suppose we all end up owning lenses where we simply don’t know what optical formula is in use.

I suspect the vast majority of photographers aren't aware of the optical formula for any of their lenses.

Personally I consider myself to be much more into optics than most photographers, yet I don't know the formula for at least 85% of my lenses - I'm reasonable o-fay with the basic Tessars, & Triplets and have reference works that show possibilities for my Sonnars & gauss derivatives. Some of my lenses I don't even have a brand or focal length for!..

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aidaho Regular Member • Posts: 419
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt
1

Tom Caldwell wrote:

walter g1 wrote:

Tom,

Neewer 85mmf1.8 is a 6/6 design.

Opteka 85mm f1.8 is a 10/7 design.

There are also cheap 85mm f1.8 lenses with a 9/7 design.

Not that I care that much but this Opteka thing has me a bit puzzled:

Looks like 6x6 in the illustration

I've looked it up, and to my eye it was very easy to classify this lens below every single 100/2.8 or 100/2.5 I've used.

Sometimes cheap 3rd party lenses can be great. This is not the case. Whatever true lens count was, it did not help.

If one really wants cheap and heavy 85, double the price and get a Samyang 85/1.4. Obviously Samyang is not twice as good as Opteka 85/1.8.

At least five times as good is more like it.

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I like to shoot with manual lenses. Here are some of my photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/

aidaho Regular Member • Posts: 419
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

petrochemist wrote:

I suspect the vast majority of photographers aren't aware of the optical formula for any of their lenses.

Yup.

I mean, I'm certainly intimately aware about those I needed to fully disassemble to clean. But even in those cases where I'm aware, I don't care.

If it looks great, can be a triplet for all I know.

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I like to shoot with manual lenses. Here are some of my photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/

Eric Nepean
Eric Nepean Veteran Member • Posts: 5,837
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

I suppose we all end up owning lenses where we simply don’t know what optical formula is in use.

My two most recent purchases are a Meyer-Optik Görlitz Oreston 50mm f/1.8 and a Pentacon/Meyer-Optik Görlitz Orestegor 300mm F/4 (still in transit).

I guess I'll never know the optical formulas for these.

I think that we can find the optical formulas Eric - I should try and see how I go. The Orestegor 300/4.0 is quite a large heavy lens. It reeks build quality but I think it is really a lens for a large stationery tripod - probably waiting patiently fro a certain bird to land on a prefocused branch .....

LOL

I knew that but for the price I thought why not. The opening bid was $130 USD, mine was the only bid.

I expect the weight will be similar to my FDn 400mm F4.5. With manual focus you are not going to be tracking swallows anyway. I have good tripod with a gimbal head that should serve nicely.

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Cheers
Eric
(Any image that I post in a DPR forum may be editted and posted in a DPR forum)

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Eric Nepean
Eric Nepean Veteran Member • Posts: 5,837
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Letsgokoulos wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Eric Nepean wrote:

I suppose we all end up owning lenses where we simply don’t know what optical formula is in use.

My two most recent purchases are a Meyer-Optik Görlitz Oreston 50mm f/1.8 and a Pentacon/Meyer-Optik Görlitz Orestegor 300mm F/4 (still in transit).

I guess I'll never know the optical formulas for these.

Could this link help ?

Marc

Nice link, thanks!

It shows the whole series including my 1.8/50.That's going into my archive.

At the same site I found several data sheets including the Pentacon 300/4.

2.18 kg. As expected.

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Cheers
Eric
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OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
The impressive Orestegor 300/4.0

Mine cost me AUD$60 many yeas ago when our dollar was near parity with the US$ - I think that the freight was as much as the lens cost ... It came in “as new” condition. I have not used it much but would never part with it - an impressive bit of engineering even if its weight alone makes it into an expedition to take for a photographic ramble.

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Tom Caldwell

OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Thanks Marc, very useful, I could not remember the site name ...

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Tom Caldwell

Eric Nepean
Eric Nepean Veteran Member • Posts: 5,837
Re: The impressive Orestegor 300/4.0

Tom Caldwell wrote:

Mine cost me AUD$60 many yeas ago when our dollar was near parity with the US$ - I think that the freight was as much as the lens cost ... It came in “as new” condition. I have not used it much but would never part with it - an impressive bit of engineering even if its weight alone makes it into an expedition to take for a photographic ramble.

Mine is labeled as "CLA" - that could be a good or bad. Shipping was $31 USD but the transit time is anyone's guess.

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Cheers
Eric
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OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt

Hmm - I am happy with what my “Neewer 85/1.8 is doing for me focal reduced on to M4/3.I also have such lenses as the Samsun 85/1.4 and Canon 85/1.2. Not to say the least the oem Nocticron 42.5/1.2 on M4/3 bodies not to say that I am unhappy with any of them - just surprised as how well the Neewer (Kelda) 85/1.8 has performed - I posted sample images.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63980664

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Tom Caldwell

OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
Re: Search for the cheap new aps-c to adapt
1

If you look up Wikipedia for double gauss you will find a quite large sample of named lenses that are described as “double gauss” type. I look to see characteristics that would make them stand out as that particular type and can see some of the significant features that might signify that this is their generic type - but I admit it is hard for someone not optical professional.  If you placed ten lens diagrams in front of me and asked me to categorise two of them as specifically double gauss I would probably fail.

But it is an interesting pursuit to see if I can identify “a type” - I am good at triplets ... at least most of the time ....

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Tom Caldwell

DMC75 Forum Member • Posts: 75
Focal reducing these to APS-C (or full frame) in square mode?

Has anyone tried these 85mm 1.8 with focal reducer in an APS-C camera? (for example Fujifilm or Sony) I tend to crop to 1:1, maybe these optics cover enough circle and don't vignette too much in square.

An alternative test without focal reducing could be simply testing in a full frame camera without the crop mode.

I'd really appreciate some samples, I have searched in google and I haven't found anything

Thank you!

OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
Re: Focal reducing these to APS-C (or full frame) in square mode?

DMC75 wrote:

Has anyone tried these 85mm 1.8 with focal reducer in an APS-C camera? (for example Fujifilm or Sony) I tend to crop to 1:1, maybe these optics cover enough circle and don't vignette too much in square.

An alternative test without focal reducing could be simply testing in a full frame camera without the crop mode.

I'd really appreciate some samples, I have searched in google and I haven't found anything

Thank you!

My Kelda (sold as Neewer for aps-c) actually covers the Ff sensor when I tried it on my FF Panasonic S1 - no sign of vignette. I am sure that if could be focal reduced on to an aps-c Sony camera body.

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Tom Caldwell

DMC75 Forum Member • Posts: 75
Re: Focal reducing these to APS-C (or full frame) in square mode?

My Kelda (sold as Neewer for aps-c) actually covers the Ff sensor when I tried it on my FF Panasonic S1 - no sign of vignette. I am sure that if could be focal reduced on to an aps-c Sony camera body.

Hey! entire full frame covering? I'm almost sold then
very tempting!

Thanks Tom!

M_digicapt Senior Member • Posts: 3,087
What makes the Samyang f1.4 better?

aidaho wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote:

walter g1 wrote:

Tom,

Neewer 85mmf1.8 is a 6/6 design.

Opteka 85mm f1.8 is a 10/7 design.

There are also cheap 85mm f1.8 lenses with a 9/7 design.

Not that I care that much but this Opteka thing has me a bit puzzled:

Looks like 6x6 in the illustration

I've looked it up, and to my eye it was very easy to classify this lens below every single 100/2.8 or 100/2.5 I've used.

Sometimes cheap 3rd party lenses can be great. This is not the case. Whatever true lens count was, it did not help.

If one really wants cheap and heavy 85, double the price and get a Samyang 85/1.4. Obviously Samyang is not twice as good as Opteka 85/1.8.

At least five times as good is more like it.

Can someone explain to people like me who know nothing about lens design why the Samyang 85mm f1.4 is 5 times better?

Thanks

OP MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,734
Re: What makes the Samyang f1.4 better?

M_digicapt wrote:

aidaho wrote:

Tom Caldwell wrote:

walter g1 wrote:

Tom,

Neewer 85mmf1.8 is a 6/6 design.

Opteka 85mm f1.8 is a 10/7 design.

There are also cheap 85mm f1.8 lenses with a 9/7 design.

Not that I care that much but this Opteka thing has me a bit puzzled:

Looks like 6x6 in the illustration

I've looked it up, and to my eye it was very easy to classify this lens below every single 100/2.8 or 100/2.5 I've used.

Sometimes cheap 3rd party lenses can be great. This is not the case. Whatever true lens count was, it did not help.

If one really wants cheap and heavy 85, double the price and get a Samyang 85/1.4. Obviously Samyang is not twice as good as Opteka 85/1.8.

At least five times as good is more like it.

Can someone explain to people like me who know nothing about lens design why the Samyang 85mm f1.4 is 5 times better?

Thanks

I would not say that the Samyang 85/1.4 was that much better but it was regarded as very good, for why I don’t know.  It is of a larger size variety but not as large as the Canon 85/1.2 by any measure.  After I bought my Samyang a very long time ago It became a bit of an orphan as it was in PK mount where I had few lenses and did not buy more.  It was destined for my then Samsung NX10.   This camera was a basic but quite effective camera in its day but had a sometimes annoying quirk when using adapters where a mechanical switch at the end of the mount flange had to be depressed in order to confirm to the camera that there was in fact a lens mounted.  Some adapter flanges were made not quite long enough to activate the switch. But inventive users managed a work-around even if it was just a tiny paper wedge.

In any case I was lucky that the Samyang lens was at least in PK mount.  I have since been able to focal reduce adapt this lens.

Some time after I bought the lens I read a photographic magazine article (long since lost) where the lens was compared favourably to both Nikon and Canon “fast 85” lenses. I did not demur and I had the Canon 85/1.2 to compare it with.  At least the Canon worked well in AF on my Canon dslr camera bodies or I might have used the Samyang more often.

It was only after a hiatus of quite a few years and a move to M4/3 that I decided to try a PK-M4/3 focal reduction adapter and dug the Samyang out of retirement. Luckily it has a manual focus ring.

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Tom Caldwell

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