Looking for a long lens system on a budget

A brief history - I've shot Pentax since the change over to digital many years ago. Have been a hobbyist photographer for over 40 years.

About 6 years ago I got hit with a nasty case of RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis). It got so bad I was using a walker. I could not even pick my cameras up let alone shoot. I got really frustrated and sold every thing off.

I live in a very rural area and have tons of wildlife right around the house. My main lenses were the Pentax DA* 300 f4 and DA* 60-250 f4.

I've missed the hobby dearly and would like to get back into it. There are so many choices out there but I though I should look at a mirrorless system. I tend to gravitate to Fujifilm as I've had a couple fixed lens cameras - actually still have the x30 which is an awesome point and shoot so to speak.

I need a long lens. The Pentax 300mm even at x1.5 on the APS-C would give me 450mm and still wasn't long enough. The wildlife around here is truly wild and I just don't have the stalking ability I once had.

Also I must have a viewfinder - just old habits die hard.

So Fuji is expensive - and rightfully so I fell. Just can't justify it right now. So how about Panasonic? Seems like it may be a good compromise right now.

And I am not against a bridge camera with a fixed zoom lens. I had one once years ago and quickly sold it again due to the lacking of the of the tiny sensor. So was also curious about how these long reach bridge cameras have come along in the past 6-8 years.

And.....of course - it all comes down to how much I am willing to spend. If money were not an object I would just go to Fuji. But at this point I would like to keep it around $1k. Any good long reach bridge cameras out there for that price?

I am not against buying used - I really don't trust ebay but from a place like KEH or B&H is fine. In fact I would prefer used at this point to be sure I am going to get back into this.

Thanks all!

So I'm assuming you're looking for something a bit lighter than your Pentax system. The Fuji APS-C system or even the Panasonic/Olympus m4/3 systems might work pretty well for you.

You owe it yourself to at least take a look at the Sony RX10III or the faster focusing RX10IV. Also the Panasonic FZ1000 I or II (side-by-side comparison). These are just about the best bridge-type wildlife cameras the industry offers today.

These are both high-end bridge cameras with 1" sensors (4x the area of typical 1/2.3" sensor). The larger sensor area and advances in sensor tech when combined with some nice & fast long lenses have allowed these camera models to hit a real sweet spot between camera size and image quality.

Thanks for your thoughtful response Lance - appreciated!

I will take a good look at the FZ1000/FZ1000II - they look like a good place for me to get started again. I’m trying to avoid an interchangeable lens camera right now so I don’t fall down the rabbit hole of wanting to try every lens made....

Thanks for the comparison link also.

coaltrain wrote:

A brief history - I've shot Pentax since the change over to digital many years ago. Have been a hobbyist photographer for over 40 years.

About 6 years ago I got hit with a nasty case of RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis). It got so bad I was using a walker. I could not even pick my cameras up let alone shoot. I got really frustrated and sold every thing off.

I live in a very rural area and have tons of wildlife right around the house. My main lenses were the Pentax DA* 300 f4 and DA* 60-250 f4.

I've missed the hobby dearly and would like to get back into it. There are so many choices out there but I though I should look at a mirrorless system. I tend to gravitate to Fujifilm as I've had a couple fixed lens cameras - actually still have the x30 which is an awesome point and shoot so to speak.

I need a long lens. The Pentax 300mm even at x1.5 on the APS-C would give me 450mm and still wasn't long enough. The wildlife around here is truly wild and I just don't have the stalking ability I once had.

Also I must have a viewfinder - just old habits die hard.

So Fuji is expensive - and rightfully so I fell. Just can't justify it right now. So how about Panasonic? Seems like it may be a good compromise right now.

And I am not against a bridge camera with a fixed zoom lens. I had one once years ago and quickly sold it again due to the lacking of the of the tiny sensor. So was also curious about how these long reach bridge cameras have come along in the past 6-8 years.

And.....of course - it all comes down to how much I am willing to spend. If money were not an object I would just go to Fuji. But at this point I would like to keep it around $1k. Any good long reach bridge cameras out there for that price?

I am not against buying used - I really don't trust ebay but from a place like KEH or B&H is fine. In fact I would prefer used at this point to be sure I am going to get back into this.

Thanks all!

Firstly, is your RA better now? That might make a difference in the choice.

I went down your path years ago, but for different reasons. I had a Pentax system too.

When the Panasonic FZ1000 came out, I thought that would do me for everything. I bought it and even though it had a smaller sensor, it beat the old 6 MP Pentax in almost every aspect, esp. video. I still have it and it's still great, but as you said, it tops out at 400 mm or so, and that's not really adequate for wildlife photography. (esp. birds)

A used but warrantied Sony RX10 III would be an OK choice, but then you're stuck with 600 mm, which can still be limiting, and of course the only lens is the big built-in one. They're expensive, too.

I think your best bet is a Micro Four Thirds system, based on either Olympus or Panasonic body. Get the kit lens for family/friends snaps and landscapes. They're pretty much free. Then, either buy a native super telephoto for your wildlife work ($$) or adapt a super telephoto from another system. For example, a 400/5.6 would act like an 800, which is proper wildlife lens. (if you can focus manually, $)

Instead of spending $1000 on an RX that is limited to 600 mm eq., you would spend maybe $400-500 on a compact body, then you'd have the other $500 to spend on a proper wildlife telephoto lens. The nice thing is that you wouldn't always be stuck with the large lens, as you would with a bridge camera. Plus, the sensor is a bit bigger.

I shoot an Olympus E-M10.3 and an adapted Olympus OM 300/4.5. When I'm not doing wildlife, that lens comes off, the camera is compact and light. Since it's a good prime telephoto, I could also stick a 1.5x teleconverter in there, and get 900 mm too. Here's an example of what it can do: Click to zoom in full size. This is without teleconverter, hand-held, crop from a 16 MP image.

European starling (invasive here)
Olympus E-M10.3 with OM 300/4.5 lens.

I admit though, that a native super-tele would be preferable, if you can swing it. They're quite spendy, but would be autofocus and with better optics. Maybe a used one of those too?

You make some valid points Jeremy. It’s good to hear first hand what the limitations could be with the FZ1000.

I became very frustrated with my beautiful Pentax DA*300 f4 - just wasn’t nearly long enough for what I need. I could do some extensive cropping after the fact but don’t like to do post processing too much.

I’ve had a couple Panasonic P&S in the past but have always been enamored my the G3 and the like. But first and foremost I need to look at the Panasonic long lenses to see if I can afford one. I feel my choice if going this way is to pick and lens first then look at the accompanying body to go behind it,

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

Panasonic makes a 100-400 telephoto that would be the equivalent of 800mm on a full frame setup. That would be a relatively light way to get that much reach.

Krusty79 wrote:

Panasonic makes a 100-400 telephoto that would be the equivalent of 800mm on a full frame µ4/3 setup. That would be a relatively light way to get that much reach.

oly or panasonic have great IBIS for those shaky hands and lightweight too, they both have relatively cheap 600mm equivalent zoom lenses, oly is the 75/300 and panny 100/300 both are are a tad slow but with good light and a higher iso they are just fine. look for 2nd hand bodies like em10-ii with a kit lens.

coaltrain wrote:

Also I must have a viewfinder - just old habits die hard.

So Fuji is expensive

High quality gear is expensive. Especially lenses. An exotic lens will be expensive, regardless if it's for Fuji, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic or whatever.

- and rightfully so I fell. Just can't justify it right now. So how about Panasonic? Seems like it may be a good compromise right now.

For telephoto, Micro 4/3 is hard to beat. You've got a wide selection of telephoto lenses, ranging from $150 cheapo plastic fantastic to $2500 top-notch primes. Currently, my go to for long telephoto is Panasonic 100-300mm f/4.0-5.6 II mounted on an Olympus E-M1 Mark II. It's a well balanced, fairly lightweight and comfortable combo. Image quality will not blow anyone away, but it's pretty solid and I'm perfectly happy with what I got for my money (better options are available for more money).

Limiting the lenses to those that got to at least 400mm equivalent:

• Panasonic 45-200 - affordable "kit" option, not the best reputation
• Panasonic 100-300 II - the one I have
• Panasonic Leica 50-200 (accepts x1.4 or x2 teleconverter) - very compact and lightweight
• Panasonic Leica 100-400 - a solid upgrade over 100-300
• Panasonic Leica 200mm f/2.8 (comes with 1.4 TC and compatible with x2) - an optical wonder, one of those lenses that are the sharpest wide open.
• Olympus 75-300 - the cheapest and smallest way to get 600mm equivalent in Micro 4/3, not the best reputation for image quality.
• Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 (with x1.4 or x2 teleconverter)
• Olympus 300mm (accepts x1.4 and x2 teleconverters) - a very popular choice, plenty of people on the Micro 4/3 forum use this for wildlife. And yes, people use it with x2 teleconverter. If you felt limited by 450 mm equivalent, how about 1200mm equivalent?

Two more telephoto zooms are coming from Olympus this year as well:

• 150-400mm f/4.5 with built-in x1.25 teleconverter - a monster lens for people with deep pockets. If 1200mm equivalent is not enough, this one will go to 2000mm.
• 100-400mm f/5-6.3 - nothing is known about this one

That's just the options that get you to 400mm equivalent or above.

spoonthegeezer wrote:

oly or panasonic have great IBIS for those shaky hands

Even better are their hybrid IS solutions. Sync-IS on Olympus (requires Olympus body + Olympus lens with IS) and Dual IS on Panasonic (requires Panasonic body with IBIS and a Panasonic lens).

look for 2nd hand bodies like em10-ii with a kit lens.

I would advise against small bodies like E-M10 or E-M5 line. Olympus E-M1 line and Panasonic G and GH lines are the ones to consider for telephoto use.

I'd look at M43. Great cameras, some good deals, and you get a longer reach with more depth of field. And lenses and bodies are lighter. Good IBIS too.

The somewhat older E-M10ii is a ridiculously cheap camera right now in the USA if you're on a budget, and a quite good one.

I have an E-M5ii that I use in conjunction with a Pentax. It's great, because I can use the Pentax lenses with it. Even the 300mm F4, which I own. I use a simple cheap Fotasy adapter. Manual focus, but the Oly has great focus peaking, which helps. The 300mm as you know has no aperture selector, but the Fotasy adapter has a simple sliding ring to move the aperture without click stops.

I'd highly recommend the cameras, quite fun to use. I've even got another Oly that I use for IR shooting, again, often with older Pentax lenses.

coaltrain wrote:

Thanks for your thoughtful response Lance - appreciated!

I will take a good look at the FZ1000/FZ1000II - they look like a good place for me to get started again. I’m trying to avoid an interchangeable lens camera right now so I don’t fall down the rabbit hole of wanting to try every lens made....

Thanks for the comparison link also.

The FZ1000 goes to 400mm EFL, which you've indicated isn't long enough for you. OTOH, if you're not printing big, the 20MP sensor gives you some room to crop. This is why I'd recommend it over the cheaper FZ300, which goes to 600mm EFL but delivers only 12MP from a much smaller sensor.

One nice thing about the FZ1000 - it's not as heavy as it looks. Bulky, yes. Heavy, no. I really like the ergonomics and controls on mine.

Just don't shoot it over ISO 3200 - color noise goes seriously haywire at ISO 6400. The MkII may be better in this regard.

Wow - such great relies from everyone - never expected all this!

You all have made very good points giving me a lot to think about. One thing I do not want to do is jump into a setup that leaves me wanting.

Saying that...I think I may need to review my budget before I go any further. To me, and I may be way off here, is to pick the lens(s) I want first. I know firsthand the difference in consumer vs. semi-pro. When I was shooting Pentax I used what I called the semi-pro DA* lenses on an APS-C sensor less the AA filter.

I know that is setting the bar kind of high - especially when looking at very long lenses. So I know some compromises will have to take place. If I want to go without any compromises I am going to have to double my budget I think to around $2K to start. To do that I am going to have to do some serious looking at money matters etc.

Astrotripper wrote:

spoonthegeezer wrote:

look for 2nd hand bodies like em10-ii with a kit lens.

I would advise against small bodies like E-M10 or E-M5 line. Olympus E-M1 line and Panasonic G and GH lines are the ones to consider for telephoto use.

^ That doesn't really jive with the "on a budget" part of his post.

Smaug01 wrote:

Astrotripper wrote:

spoonthegeezer wrote:

look for 2nd hand bodies like em10-ii with a kit lens.

I would advise against small bodies like E-M10 or E-M5 line. Olympus E-M1 line and Panasonic G and GH lines are the ones to consider for telephoto use.

^ That doesn't really jive with the "on a budget" part of his post.

Not necessarily.

Panasonic G85 with a kit lens is $700 and 100-300 II is $550, so that's $1350. The camera comes with a zoom that could probably be sold for like $150. So $1200 is not that far off the OP's budget. There's also an option of G7 for $500. And all that brand new.

A second hand E-M1 is like $300, and you could probably find Mark II for around $700.

So there are options.

Smaug01 wrote:

Astrotripper wrote:

spoonthegeezer wrote:

look for 2nd hand bodies like em10-ii with a kit lens.

I would advise against small bodies like E-M10 or E-M5 line. Olympus E-M1 line and Panasonic G and GH lines are the ones to consider for telephoto use.

^ That doesn't really jive jibewith the "on a budget" part of his post.

"Jive" means to talk nonsense.

OK - I think I am getting a little closer to at least narrowing it down. Sorry if this turns out to be a long drawn out post but it really helps me to write this out and also to get some final opinions. You all have helped me so much!

First I had to realize to get what I really want my original thoughts of a budget of $1k just won’t so it so I’ve thrown that out the window. Looks more like $2k now.

I’m looking at lenses that will satisfy my need first. I think I have narrowed it down to 2 choices now.

Nikon D5600 or D7500 with the 200-500 f5.6 lens.

Panasonic G7 or G85 with the 100-400 f4-6.3 lens.

Not talking money at this point but most everything is kind of on sale at B&H right now which is my preferred vendor.

I was set to go with the Nikon setup at first mostly because of the APS-C sensor. Ever since I went digital way back when that is all I’ve had and know what to expect. Change is hard for me - even more so as I get older...

However...for some reason I am just totally enamored by the Panasonic setup. Don’t know exactly why at this point but am leaning that way.

I have some questions about the G7 vs. the G85 but am leaning toward the G85. However there are a couple better deals on the G7 right now. I just have to keep the money aspect aside and get what I really want this time. One of the G7 kits has my attention as it comes with both a 14-42 and 40-150 lenses for $600. I will have to research those 2 lenses to see if they are just consumer junk kit lenses or if they are decent.

All for now as I narrow this down. I will have time to think it through some today as I will be spending a few hours on the tractor today.

Astrotripper wrote:

Smaug01 wrote:

Astrotripper wrote:

spoonthegeezer wrote:

look for 2nd hand bodies like em10-ii with a kit lens.

I would advise against small bodies like E-M10 or E-M5 line. Olympus E-M1 line and Panasonic G and GH lines are the ones to consider for telephoto use.

^ That doesn't really jive with the "on a budget" part of his post.

Not necessarily.

Panasonic G85 with a kit lens is $700 and 100-300 II is $550, so that's $1350. The camera comes with a zoom that could probably be sold for like $150. So $1200 is not that far off the OP's budget. There's also an option of G7 for $500. And all that brand new.

A second hand E-M1 is like $300, and you could probably find Mark II for around $700.

So there are options.

Good point, and good idea to post the examples.

Selling a kit lens for $150... I'm skeptical. (unless it's a KILLER kit lens)

coaltrain wrote:

OK - I think I am getting a little closer to at least narrowing it down. Sorry if this turns out to be a long drawn out post but it really helps me to write this out and also to get some final opinions. You all have helped me so much!

First I had to realize to get what I really want my original thoughts of a budget of $1k just won’t so it so I’ve thrown that out the window. Looks more like $2k now.

I’m looking at lenses that will satisfy my need first. I think I have narrowed it down to 2 choices now.

Nikon D5600 or D7500 with the 200-500 f5.6 lens.

Panasonic G7 or G85 with the 100-400 f4-6.3 lens.

It seems like your main interest is telephoto options. Micro 4/3 is the clear winner here, for size and price, due to its smaller sensor.

Not talking money at this point but most everything is kind of on sale at B&H right now which is my preferred vendor.

I was set to go with the Nikon setup at first mostly because of the APS-C sensor. Ever since I went digital way back when that is all I’ve had and know what to expect. Change is hard for me - even more so as I get older...

APS-C = better sensor for low light, but no IBIS, which is huge

However...for some reason I am just totally enamored by the Panasonic setup. Don’t know exactly why at this point but am leaning that way.

There are a LOT of us µ4/3 owners who "downgraded" from full frame or APS-C. The in-body image stabilization in cameras with this mount is just awesome; a real game-changer. Then, the portability/performance compromise is just perfect. I can literally carry my camera body and all 6 native lenses in the same space as a body + 4 lenses in FF, and with half the weight, too. The main question then, is will it get you the results you want? I bet it will...

I have some questions about the G7 vs. the G85 but am leaning toward the G85. However there are a couple better deals on the G7 right now. I just have to keep the money aspect aside and get what I really want this time. One of the G7 kits has my attention as it comes with both a 14-42 and 40-150 lenses for $600. I will have to research those 2 lenses to see if they are just consumer junk kit lenses or if they are decent.

Might be good to run this question by the guys in the Micro Four Thirds subforum . They've got their fingers on the pulse of it.

[snip]Might be good to run this question by the guys in the Micro Four Thirds subforum . They've got their fingers on the pulse of it.[/snip]

That's my next step.

Thanks your your input!