After some advice regarding rules

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Jocksa
Jocksa Contributing Member • Posts: 569
After some advice regarding rules

Hi,

I've been disqualified from the "Kitchen knife and cooking product/s" challenge twice now. I didn't really understand what "cooking products" were but I now understand it means ingredients. My first shot was just a knife so fair enough I can understand the DQ.

For my second shot, I tried to recreate the texture and lighting of the first shot (not that successfully if I'm honest) but include a red cabbage that I'd been shredding with the knife. I was DQ'd again for not following the rules - no other info. This is the shot:

I've messaged the host to try to get some guidance but haven't heard back. The challenge only has a couple of days left to run and I've been trying to enter every one (except bird based ones).

Can anyone see where I'm going wrong? It's probably obvious but I can't see it.

Many thanks.

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cjf2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,089
Re: After some advice regarding rules

You need to be a bit more obvious in these challenges. The red cabbage or whatever it is, is too subtle as it is too small a sliver of the picture and in black and white..
You have a couple of days so try having some of the vegetable on top of the knife and leave it in colour. Plus put a description for the host to see.

tasad Senior Member • Posts: 1,279
Re: After some advice regarding rules
3

Jocksa wrote:

For my second shot, I tried to recreate the texture and lighting of the first shot (not that successfully if I'm honest) but include a red cabbage that I'd been shredding with the knife. I was DQ'd again for not following the rules - no other info. This is the shot:

Can anyone see where I'm going wrong? It's probably obvious but I can't see it.

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

Barry Twycross Veteran Member • Posts: 3,276
Re: After some advice regarding rules

I noticed the first one, and wasn't surprised it went, there being no food in the picture. On seeing the second one, I didn't immediately notice the cabbage. It's easily overlooked and looks like texture in the counter top.

Maybe a title including "Cabbage" might help, or at least a description.

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Jocksa
OP Jocksa Contributing Member • Posts: 569
Re: After some advice regarding rules

Barry Twycross wrote:

I noticed the first one, and wasn't surprised it went, there being no food in the picture. On seeing the second one, I didn't immediately notice the cabbage. It's easily overlooked and looks like texture in the counter top.

Maybe a title including "Cabbage" might help, or at least a description.

Thanks. The title was “Santoku knife and red cabbage” but that didn't work.  I’ve given up with the close crop and shot a slightly wider view.

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Wildbegonia
Wildbegonia Contributing Member • Posts: 872
Re: After some advice regarding rules
1

tasad wrote:

Jocksa wrote:

For my second shot, I tried to recreate the texture and lighting of the first shot (not that successfully if I'm honest) but include a red cabbage that I'd been shredding with the knife. I was DQ'd again for not following the rules - no other info. This is the shot:

Can anyone see where I'm going wrong? It's probably obvious but I can't see it.

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

I strongly agree.

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Jocksa
OP Jocksa Contributing Member • Posts: 569
Re: After some advice regarding rules

Wildbegonia wrote:

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

I strongly agree.

Fair enough although I would say it’s an abstract shot OF a knife and cabbage. Getting close to a subject is just one creative technique - not sure why it’s been ruled out but it’s no big deal.

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tasad Senior Member • Posts: 1,279
Re: After some advice regarding rules
4

Jocksa wrote:

Fair enough although I would say it’s an abstract shot OF a knife and cabbage. Getting close to a subject is just one creative technique - not sure why it’s been ruled out but it’s no big deal.

You can title/describe this photo whatever you like... but if an image is unrecognizable by others - it's an abstraction : a 'picture of nothing'....

David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 3,146
Re: After some advice regarding rules

Jocksa wrote:

Can anyone see where I'm going wrong? It's probably obvious but I can't see it.

Many thanks.

I just had a quick look at the challenge and it says:

"Show us your kitchen knife and the product it cuts."

The 4 entries submitted so far all have a knife cutting something.

I don't see your knife cutting anything.

The host has done a poor job in stating clearly what he wants.

Yes your knife cuts cabbage and so it technically meets the challenge description but it might not be what the host really wants.

In my experience, some hosts are much more competent than others in setting and enforcing their own rules.

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Wildbegonia
Wildbegonia Contributing Member • Posts: 872
Re: After some advice regarding rules
4

An abstract rendition of something very tangible here ( knife and the object being cut),  simply, it doesn’t cut it.

And adding a explanatory title either, lets not forget the photo should stand on its own, it should speak a thousand words by itself, without recourse to the artifice of explanatory titles. After all, the challenge is addressed for a visual medium, not a writing composition.

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The Lamentable Lens Regular Member • Posts: 420
Re: After some advice regarding rules
3

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage."  And it's an interesting one at that...

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Wildbegonia
Wildbegonia Contributing Member • Posts: 872
Re: After some advice regarding rules
3

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." And it's an interesting one at that...

...I roughly counted 12 eyes that did not see, visually,  "a picture of a knife and cabbage." It is literally, yes, because someone mentioned what it was, otherwise, so many eyes are wrong?

Pardon, but we are pushing the issue here.

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Skylane Contributing Member • Posts: 873
Re: After some advice regarding rules
1

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." And it's an interesting one at that...

I knew exactly what it was the second I was told what it was.

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Charlie

The Lamentable Lens Regular Member • Posts: 420
Re: After some advice regarding rules
2

Wildbegonia wrote:

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." And it's an interesting one at that...

...I roughly counted 12 eyes that did not see, visually, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." It is literally, yes, because someone mentioned what it was, otherwise, so many eyes are wrong?

Pardon, but we are pushing the issue here.

It's not a matter of "right or wrong," it's art. How boring would photography (or any other medium of art) be if we so restricted creativity. Frankly, one of the joys of looking through challenge photos is finding all the creative ways that people can find to represent the challenge.

The rule was "show us your kitchen knife and the product it cuts." That's precisely what the OP did -- his photograph fits the rule perfectly. The rule does not prohibit close shots of the knife, or require all of the knife and the ingredient to be pictured. That rule is being imposed only in this discussion.

By the way, the original picture appears to still be in the challenge, so perhaps it's a moot point...

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David1961
David1961 Senior Member • Posts: 3,146
Re: After some advice regarding rules

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

Wildbegonia wrote:

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." And it's an interesting one at that...

...I roughly counted 12 eyes that did not see, visually, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." It is literally, yes, because someone mentioned what it was, otherwise, so many eyes are wrong?

Pardon, but we are pushing the issue here.

It's not a matter of "right or wrong," it's art. How boring would photography (or any other medium of art) be if we so restricted creativity. Frankly, one of the joys of looking through challenge photos is finding all the creative ways that people can find to represent the challenge.

The rule was "show us your kitchen knife and the product it cuts." That's precisely what the OP did -- his photograph fits the rule perfectly

Yes I agree, as I posted earlier, but I didn't know it was cabbage until the op stated it was.

Maybe the host wanted the product to be clear as to what it was without having it to be explained in a title or description.

If that is the case it should have been explained in the rules.

. The rule does not prohibit close shots of the knife, or require all of the knife and the ingredient to be pictured. That rule is being imposed only in this discussion.

By the way, the original picture appears to still be in the challenge, so perhaps it's a moot point...

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Wildbegonia
Wildbegonia Contributing Member • Posts: 872
Re: After some advice regarding rules
3

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

Wildbegonia wrote:

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." And it's an interesting one at that...

...I roughly counted 12 eyes that did not see, visually, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." It is literally, yes, because someone mentioned what it was, otherwise, so many eyes are wrong?

Pardon, but we are pushing the issue here.

It's not a matter of "right or wrong," it's art. How boring would photography (or any other medium of art) be if we so restricted creativity. Frankly, one of the joys of looking through challenge photos is finding all the creative ways that people can find to represent the challenge.

.....sorry, typed too fast and I can not edit it. I meant to say.....so many eyes are blind?

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DenWil
DenWil Veteran Member • Posts: 4,274
Re: After some advice regarding rules
2

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

Wildbegonia wrote:

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

tasad wrote:

This is an abstract image - not a picture of a knife and cabbage ...

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." And it's an interesting one at that...

...I roughly counted 12 eyes that did not see, visually, "a picture of a knife and cabbage." It is literally, yes, because someone mentioned what it was, otherwise, so many eyes are wrong?

The  12 eyes seem entitled  not only to images which render the subject as they would have it rendered  but that  the identity of the content  be easily recognizable to be valid. Wrong on both counts. The OP owes you nothing beyond meeting the parameters of the challenge.

Pardon, but we are pushing the issue here.

It's not a matter of "right or wrong," it's art. How boring would photography (or any other medium of art) be if we so restricted creativity. Frankly, one of the joys of looking through challenge photos is finding all the creative ways that people can find to represent the challenge.

The rule was "show us your kitchen knife and the product it cuts." That's precisely what the OP did -- his photograph fits the rule perfectly. The rule does not prohibit close shots of the knife, or require all of the knife and the ingredient to be pictured. That rule is being imposed only in this discussion.

Kitchen knife and the product it cuts.

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dw

tasad Senior Member • Posts: 1,279
Re: After some advice regarding rules
3

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage."

... or a table runner and a marble coffee table... or a Stefano Ricci's  gold plated tie and a Ben&Jerry's Chubby Hubby ice cream... or a dirty 'in-cabin' filter and an engine oil leakage ... or ...

And it's an interesting one at that...

Yeah... it's  an interesting example  of using professional , full frame camera and and very sharp macro lens - to take the blurry picture (  without a single sharp pixel )...

The Lamentable Lens Regular Member • Posts: 420
Re: After some advice regarding rules

tasad wrote:

The Lamentable Lens wrote:

It is, quite literally, "a picture of a knife and cabbage."

... or a table runner and a marble coffee table... or a Stefano Ricci's gold plated tie and a Ben&Jerry's Chubby Hubby ice cream... or a dirty 'in-cabin' filter and an engine oil leakage ... or ...

Well, no, in actual fact, it's not any of those things. But how wonderful that it can be interpreted to look like those things! The Stefano Ricci / Ben & Jerry example gave me a laugh -- nice one.

And it's an interesting one at that...

Yeah... it's an interesting example of using professional , full frame camera and and very sharp macro lens - to take the blurry picture ( without a single sharp pixel )...

Well, fortunately for the OP, "tasad must like it" was not one of the entrance criteria

As much as I enjoy a good debate, I don't really want to go back and forth on this one. I learned long ago that comments on the internet do more to entrench opinions than to change anyone's mind. The picture plainly satisfies the entrance criteria as written, and, in any event, the picture appears to have been accepted into the challenge.

As an aside, I'm not all that interested in the equipment used to take a contest photo. That's the kind of strange obsession that seems to exist only in places like a dpreview forum. For what it's worth, my eyes could immediately spot the focal point in the picture.  But again, that's irrelevant.  Whether you or I like it will affect our vote, but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether the picture satisfies the entrance criteria.

Hope you have a great day, tasad.  Thanks to you, I'm now going out to buy some Ben & Jerry's ice cream...

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embie
embie Senior Member • Posts: 2,035
Re: After some advice regarding rules
1

Yes, it's still present in the challenge and for the right reason.

It's a knife and a cut red cabbage...if you look carefully.

How about #6 in this challenge ?

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