Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
psychelica Forum Member • Posts: 80
Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

I bought the Canon 70d, mainly for video, with the idea of possibly getting a FF if I started taking more stills. I really like the 70d and as I prefer prime lenses was thinking of getting a Sigma 30mm to have the equivalent of 50mm. However there is a 5d mark 2 for sale secondhand which is not that much more than the 30mm lens. So my question is would it be better to buy the 5d and then I could use my Sigma 50mm lens? In effect meaning I would have a FF camera instead of another lens.

I never take more than one lens with me when I take photographs and I also have an 85mm lens.

 psychelica's gear list:psychelica's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2/35
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 70D
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Andy01 Senior Member • Posts: 3,659
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

psychelica wrote:

I bought the Canon 70d, mainly for video, with the idea of possibly getting a FF if I started taking more stills. I really like the 70d and as I prefer prime lenses was thinking of getting a Sigma 30mm to have the equivalent of 50mm. However there is a 5d mark 2 for sale secondhand which is not that much more than the 30mm lens. So my question is would it be better to buy the 5d and then I could use my Sigma 50mm lens? In effect meaning I would have a FF camera instead of another lens.

I never take more than one lens with me when I take photographs and I also have an 85mm lens.

I don't have any direct experience with a 5D ii, but you would want to check it's suitability for video. The 70D was the first Canon DSLR with DPAF and that dramatically improved the focus speeds for video and the 5D ii doesn't have DPAF. It is probably the least well-regarded 5D model.

Colin

 Andy01's gear list:Andy01's gear list
Canon EOS M5 Canon 6D Mark II Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM Canon EF 35mm F2 IS USM +5 more
M Stewart Contributing Member • Posts: 803
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

psychelica wrote:

...However there is a 5d mark 2 for sale secondhand which is not that much more than the 30mm lens. So my question is would it be better to buy the 5d and then I could use my Sigma 50mm lens? In effect meaning I would have a FF camera instead of another lens.

...

I've had a 5D MkII for many years, and for my uses, it's fine for stills where I use both an EF 35 F/2 IS, and a 45mm TSE - and a range of other lenses.  However, I was very disappointed with its video - possibly one of the first DSLRs to have "video" incorporated.   I noticed the effects of slow readout immediately, whereas my "proper" camcorders had never shown this problem.  Possibly OK if all your video subjects are slow moving, but beware of shooting faster moving items with a 5D II.

-- hide signature --

M. Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK

 M Stewart's gear list:M Stewart's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon EF 20mm f/2.8 USM Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 Canon EF 35mm F2.0 +15 more
OP psychelica Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Many thanks for your replies, I realise my original post is confusing. My idea is to keep the 70d for video, adding the 5d mark 2 as a second camera which I would only to use for stills.

 psychelica's gear list:psychelica's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2/35
M Stewart Contributing Member • Posts: 803
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Hi, in that case, I expect you'll find the 5D II does what you want.  Its LCD readout is usable but shows its age; some years ago, I remember using a 50D for checking images taken on my 5D II.

-- hide signature --

M. Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK

 M Stewart's gear list:M Stewart's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon EF 20mm f/2.8 USM Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 Canon EF 35mm F2.0 +15 more
Tannin Senior Member • Posts: 1,383
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

The 5D II is a very peculiar camera, a unique mix of very, very good and pretty damn bad.

First the slightly bad. It's old, it's a bit clunky, it doesn't have some of the minor bells and whistles we mostly take for granted now. Example: there is no electronic level. Example: the custom functions are fewer and more limited than you might expect - the one that particularly bugs me is the lack of a way to set the dial functions sensibly in manual exposure mode. (For reasons never clear to me, Canon insists on setting the top dial and the back dial up backwards ex-factory in all its cameras, meaning that the top dial which normally does aperture (in Av mode) suddenly starts doing shutter speed when you switch to manual, and the aperture moves down to the back dial. Drives me spare! But at least they now make this very easy to fix. Sadly, the 5D II was built before they realised the error of their ways.)

Next the really bad. The AF system is woeful. It's accurate enough, don't worry about that, it's just amazingly primitive for a camera of that era. The 5D Mark 1 had many virtues but had an only-just-OK autofocus system. There was nothing actually wrong with it, it just didn't improve on the other cameras that Canon made at the time, and was (if I remember correctly) slightly inferior to the then-current but soon-to-be-replaced 20D crop model.

Years later, Canon replaced the 5D Mark 1 with the 5D Mark II. They had been working on a spiffy new AF system for the Mark II, but it wasn't ready on time and, in the end, they released the new model with the old 5D Mark 1 focus system carried over more-or-less unchanged. It's perfectly reliable insofar as it gets good sharp focus when it focuses at all, and reliable insofar as you know when it's going to work and when it isn't. You soon learn that there are some scenes which it won't cope with, and learn to work around that (often just a focus and recompose is all you need). But AF on the 5D II is never fast or thought-free. You can't just point and click the way you can with pretty much anything else (such as your 70D). You have to take your time and work at it.

I use my 5D II exclusively for landscapes, and almost exclusively with a 16-35/4. It copes just fine with that task load, though I have to do a lot of focus-recompose. I wouldn't dream of using it for wildlife or action.

Now the good, and it's really good. The 5D II sensor was way out in advance of anything else made when it was introduced, simply the best camera sensor on the market, and it stands up well even today. Yes, sure, the 5D IV and the EOS R have better ones, so do models from the other makers, but the old 5D II sensor is much more like the modern sensor in (say) an EOS R than it is like the old-school sensors in things like the 5D I and the 20D. There was a big, sudden jump in sensor technology ten years or so ago, and the 5D II is on the right side of it. It offers lots of detail (plenty of pixels) even by today's standards, and excellent noise performance for its day - perfectly usable even now.

I love the 5D II's sensor, hate the AF system, and the rest of the camera is basically standard Canon, similar to a 20D or a 70D.

If you can live with the AF, it's a screaming bargain.

 Tannin's gear list:Tannin's gear list
Canon G9 X II Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV +11 more
Rakumi Veteran Member • Posts: 6,358
5d mk ii is a great option.
1

It is a great camera for photography.  As far as video, it is a legend.  A piece of history.  It is functional for video but doee not have the features of today but it was the first DSLR to have video and began the idea of using such a setup for professional work.  But you said it will be used for still photos and with your specific lens setup, it works perfect.

-- hide signature --

Darkness is the monster and your shutter is your sword, aperture your shield and iso your armor. Strike fast with your sword and defend well with your shield and hope your armor holds up.

 Rakumi's gear list:Rakumi's gear list
Canon PowerShot SD780 IS Canon EOS 450D Canon EOS 60D Canon 6D Mark II Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM +11 more
Scott Larson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,678
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Tannin wrote:

Years later, Canon replaced the 5D Mark 1 with the 5D Mark II. They had been working on a spiffy new AF system for the Mark II, but it wasn't ready on time and, in the end, they released the new model with the old 5D Mark 1 focus system carried over more-or-less unchanged.

Masaya Maeda CEO of Canon's Imaging Products said at the time of the 5D Mark II release, "Firstly the market’s evaluation of the 5D’s AF system has been very positive. There have been no complaints from users, with everyone saying it’s very good. Given that, to a certain extent, we think we shouldn’t change it."

See, Canon received no complaints about the 5D autofocus so they put that successful AF system right into the Mark II without changing a thing!

 Scott Larson's gear list:Scott Larson's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS-1D X +14 more
Tannin Senior Member • Posts: 1,383
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d
1

Ahh, the mind of a marketing man is a truly amazing thing.

Good one Scott!

 Tannin's gear list:Tannin's gear list
Canon G9 X II Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV +11 more
OP psychelica Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Thank you for all your replies, I now have a clear idea of the differences although the Canon 5d 2 I was considering has now been sold. I will keep all this in mind when another 5d 2 comes up for sale.

 psychelica's gear list:psychelica's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2/35
John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 23,666
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Tannin wrote:

Now the good, and it's really good. The 5D II sensor was way out in advance of anything else made when it was introduced, simply the best camera sensor on the market, and it stands up well even today. Yes, sure, the 5D IV and the EOS R have better ones, so do models from the other makers, but the old 5D II sensor is much more like the modern sensor in (say) an EOS R than it is like the old-school sensors in things like the 5D I and the 20D. There was a big, sudden jump in sensor technology ten years or so ago, and the 5D II is on the right side of it. It offers lots of detail (plenty of pixels) even by today's standards, and excellent noise performance for its day - perfectly usable even now.

The 5D2 is notorious for horizontal banding noise at both high ISOs and in base-ISO shadows.  I've actually seen the banding at ISO 100 in out-of-camera JPEGs, without any push.  Banding can be apparent as low as ISO 6400 in poor light colors, like outdoor shade.

I don't know how anyone can recommend this camera as noise-competitive with modern sensors.  Even modern Rebels will do a better job in the shadows at high and low ISOs.  The 5D2 is mainly useful for someone who wants the optical possibilities of the FF sensor, but will be using low ISOs well-exposed, and medium ISOs, without the need for low noise.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 23,666
Re: 5d mk ii is a great option.

Rakumi wrote:

It is a great camera for photography. As far as video, it is a legend. A piece of history. It is functional for video but doee not have the features of today but it was the first DSLR to have video and began the idea of using such a setup for professional work. But you said it will be used for still photos and with your specific lens setup, it works perfect.

It was legendary because it allowed people to use fast lenses with a large sensor, for shallow DOF, not otherwise available for consumer video.  However, the 5D2's video is quite aliased, with harsh line-skipping, unless you have a soft lens, or insert a snap-in video AA filter.

SergioThor
SergioThor Regular Member • Posts: 109
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d
2

John Sheehy wrote:

Tannin wrote:

Now the good, and it's really good. The 5D II sensor was way out in advance of anything else made when it was introduced, simply the best camera sensor on the market, and it stands up well even today. Yes, sure, the 5D IV and the EOS R have better ones, so do models from the other makers, but the old 5D II sensor is much more like the modern sensor in (say) an EOS R than it is like the old-school sensors in things like the 5D I and the 20D. There was a big, sudden jump in sensor technology ten years or so ago, and the 5D II is on the right side of it. It offers lots of detail (plenty of pixels) even by today's standards, and excellent noise performance for its day - perfectly usable even now.

The 5D2 is notorious for horizontal banding noise at both high ISOs and in base-ISO shadows. I've actually seen the banding at ISO 100 in out-of-camera JPEGs, without any push. Banding can be apparent as low as ISO 6400 in poor light colors, like outdoor shade.

I don't know how anyone can recommend this camera as noise-competitive with modern sensors. Even modern Rebels will do a better job in the shadows at high and low ISOs. The 5D2 is mainly useful for someone who wants the optical possibilities of the FF sensor, but will be using low ISOs well-exposed, and medium ISOs, without the need for low noise.

ohh no, how was i able to use this camera, dont even know /sarcasm

5Dmk2 is great camera to shoot, its old, some things are outdated, but if you learn it limitations, you will get job done

-- hide signature --
 SergioThor's gear list:SergioThor's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS R GoPro Hero8 Black Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM +15 more
John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 23,666
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

SergioThor wrote:

John Sheehy wrote:

The 5D2 is notorious for horizontal banding noise at both high ISOs and in base-ISO shadows. I've actually seen the banding at ISO 100 in out-of-camera JPEGs, without any push. Banding can be apparent as low as ISO 6400 in poor light colors, like outdoor shade.

I don't know how anyone can recommend this camera as noise-competitive with modern sensors. Even modern Rebels will do a better job in the shadows at high and low ISOs. The 5D2 is mainly useful for someone who wants the optical possibilities of the FF sensor, but will be using low ISOs well-exposed, and medium ISOs, without the need for low noise.

ohh no, how was i able to use this camera, dont even know /sarcasm

5Dmk2 is great camera to shoot, its old, some things are outdated, but if you learn it limitations, you will get job done

You can't present content/composition to prove imaging quality.  These images have a lot more noise than most more modern FF cameras would give.  That is why I said that this is a good way to get cheaply into the larger FF format, where with the right lenses you can get shallow DOF and wide rectilinear angles of view.  Even Canon's latest APS-C cameras have less noise, in the darker tones, and at very high ISOs, and especially for long exposures, where the 7D2 and 90D and have some of the lowest dark current noise in the industry at ambient temperatures.

To anyone going to the 5D2 because they think it has lower high-ISO noise or more DR because it is FF: forget about it.

Tannin Senior Member • Posts: 1,383
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Bit less armchair theorising and a bit less pixel peeping and a bit more practical picture taking would be useful here.

 Tannin's gear list:Tannin's gear list
Canon G9 X II Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV +11 more
John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 23,666
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

Tannin wrote:

Bit less armchair theorising and a bit less pixel peeping and a bit more practical picture taking would be useful here.

This isn't theorizing.  It is cold, hard, objective reality.  Take the same photo with the 5D2 and almost any new camera, and the 5D2 will have more noise at high ISOs and in low ISO shadows.

Please detach your ego from you camera body or sensor size, and stop giving false hope to people who want to believe the myth of automatic, overall FF superiority.  It seems to be of no concern to people like you that some people might be looking to a FF camera for something that the body in question really won't deliver.  I want people to have better information before making decisions.

OP psychelica Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

John Sheehy wrote:

Tannin wrote:

Bit less armchair theorising and a bit less pixel peeping and a bit more practical picture taking would be useful here.

This isn't theorizing. It is cold, hard, objective reality. Take the same photo with the 5D2 and almost any new camera, and the 5D2 will have more noise at high ISOs and in low ISO shadows.

Please detach your ego from you camera body or sensor size, and stop giving false hope to people who want to believe the myth of automatic, overall FF superiority. It seems to be of no concern to people like you that some people might be looking to a FF camera for something that the body in question really won't deliver. I want people to have better information before making decisions.

Good advice of course but that wasn't my rationale. I wanted to know if instead of getting a new 30mm lens for the 90D, would I be better buying a secondhand 5D mark 2 and using my 50mm Sigma lens on it? This would mean I would get the same result, for more or less the same price, but have a second full frame camera. As I said, unfortunately the 5D mark 2 I was looking at has been sold but they should come up for sale again.

 psychelica's gear list:psychelica's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2/35
John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 23,666
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

psychelica wrote:

John Sheehy wrote:

Tannin wrote:

Bit less armchair theorising and a bit less pixel peeping and a bit more practical picture taking would be useful here.

This isn't theorizing. It is cold, hard, objective reality. Take the same photo with the 5D2 and almost any new camera, and the 5D2 will have more noise at high ISOs and in low ISO shadows.

Please detach your ego from you camera body or sensor size, and stop giving false hope to people who want to believe the myth of automatic, overall FF superiority. It seems to be of no concern to people like you that some people might be looking to a FF camera for something that the body in question really won't deliver. I want people to have better information before making decisions.

Good advice of course but that wasn't my rationale. I wanted to know if instead of getting a new 30mm lens for the 90D, would I be better buying a secondhand 5D mark 2 and using my 50mm Sigma lens on it? This would mean I would get the same result, for more or less the same price, but have a second full frame camera. As I said, unfortunately the 5D mark 2 I was looking at has been sold but they should come up for sale again.

If that's your intended scope (portraits in good light), then the 5D2 can blur the background more with less image-level noise, with about 1.6x the focal length with an f/1.4 lens. Once you get away from that type of scenario, then the 5D2 benefits can disappear, and the 5D2 may be noisier. My 6D has less noise than my 5D2 did, and I wouldn't even consider the 6D over my 90D for most of what I do. The 90D gives more resolution and less noise with a lens of about the same entrance pupil size, like 17-55/2.8 on the 90D vs 24-105/4 on the 6D. The 6D is purely for very shallow DOF with fast lenses, and large rectilinear angles of view, and capturing the full image circle of my fish-eye lens.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 23,666
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

I, John Sheehy wrote:

If that's your intended scope (portraits in good light), then the 5D2 can blur the background more with less image-level noise, with about 1.6x the focal length with an f/1.4 lens.

Just for the record, ~85mm tends to be favored for FF portraiture, and ~50mm for APS-C portraiture, by the majority of people with experience.

OP psychelica Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: Canon 5d Mark 2 and Canon 70d

psychelica wrote:

Good advice of course but that wasn't my rationale. I wanted to know if instead of getting a new 30mm lens for the 90D, would I be better buying a secondhand 5D mark 2 and using my 50mm Sigma lens on it?

Unfortunately I made an error, I meant 70D - not 90D; but for what I do these two cameras are similar so the advice I presume would be the same.

 psychelica's gear list:psychelica's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2/35
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads