16mp vs 20mp, AA filter comp

You will not regret purchasing the GX8, a quality piece of kit.

dmokn wrote:

Curious if anyone could comment on how the image quality compares between a few generations of cameras. I have a GX7, which I still really like. I've been sort of eyeing getting a cheap G85, which I believe has the same sensor as my GX7 but doesn't have the AA filter, has a new shutter, etc. Then there's the 20mp sensors of the GX9, G95, etc.

My question is: if I were to grab a G85, would I notice an image quality bump? Or is it closer in quality to my GX7 and the bigger bump would be going to the latest 20mp ones? Framed another way, is the G85 closer in image quality to a GX7 or a GX9?

I base my conclusions on DPR's Studio Test images, as I don't have the time or inclination to spend hours doing controlled tests with my GX7, GX85, GX8 and GX9 cameras. It looks to me like the GX7>GX85 improvement from removing the AA filter is barely perceptible in 1:1 onscreen viewing, and it's unlikely you'd see any difference in a 16"x21" print (my largest print size so far) after sharpening for output. The GX7>GX9 improvement is somewhat greater, due to the extra resolution. Strictly from an IQ perspective, it doesn't seem worthwhile replacing a GX7 with GX85. However, there are many other reasons to make the switch. The GX9, OTOH, is better in almost every way (except the grip and EVF optics), but it's a pricier upgrade.

FWIW, I've made a bunch of 16"x21" prints with RAWs from my GX7, and they look very crisp and detailed, even when viewed up-close. Processing for output makes a bigger difference than many folks realize. A well-processed GX7 image can blow away one from a GX9 that's been processed with Lightroom defaults.

dmokn wrote:

Lots of great feedback here. I think my key takeaways have been:

1. After all these years, the GX7 still isn't completely terrible compared to the newer cams.
2. I could probably get more out of it just by upping my PP skills (have always shot this camera in raw).

Process RAW with DxO PhotoLab Elite, apply PRIME noise reduction and Lens Sharpness, output as TIF, then use Pixel Genius' now-free PhotoKit Sharpener to apply output sharpening tailored to print size and media. PKS makes a huge difference in apparent crispness, even in small prints. Default sharpening in Lightroom doesn't even come close.

1. I should be considering getting a GX8...
2. And maybe a sharper lens.

Thanks, everyone.

pattymeboy wrote:

You will not regret purchasing the GX8, a quality piece of kit.

It is a terrific camera, but I dearly miss the improvements incorporated into the later models. GX8 with low-shock shutter, no AA filter, auto minimum shutter speed, and EC in manual mode with Auto ISO would make it perfect for me. Yes, I know the G9 has all this.

Adrian Harris wrote:

Although I love the gx7, even using pro lenses it does not produce 'really' sharp images. But on getting a 20mp GX8. I was staggered by the upgrade in image quality.

I don't own any other 16mp cams so can't comment on them.

Adrian
http://www.artfotografia.co.uk/

Hmmm. I wasn't struck by so obvious a difference. The GX8 is an excellent camera, better than the reviews suggested. But the increase in resolution didn't get me jumping up and down, I must say.

That could be down to your eye sight or the quality of the lenses that you used.

Sranang Boi wrote:

That could be down to your eye sight or the quality of the lenses that you used.

When I look at DPR's Studio Test images, I see the GX8 as having more pixels but not appreciably more detail than the GX7. This is probably due to the presence of AA filters on both. OTOH, I do see more fine detail from the GX9 and G9, both of which have 20MP sensors with no AA filters.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=panasonic_dmcgx7&attr13_1=panasonic_dcgx9&attr13_2=panasonic_dmcgx8&attr13_3=panasonic_dcg9&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=125&attr16_1=200&attr16_2=200&attr16_3=200&attr126_3=1&attr171_1=1&attr171_2=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.33987957387679485&y=0.2138851594329707

Jacques Cornell wrote:

Sranang Boi wrote:

That could be down to your eye sight or the quality of the lenses that you used.

When I look at DPR's Studio Test images, I see the GX8 as having more pixels but not appreciably more detail than the GX7. This is probably due to the presence of AA filters on both. OTOH, I do see more fine detail from the GX9 and G9, both of which have 20MP sensors with no AA filters.

Putting GX850 instead of GX9 makes it even more interesting:

• Top row 16Mp sensors
• Bottom row 20Mp sensors
• First column AA filter
• Second column no AA filter.

In this comparison the 16Mp sensor without AA filter (GX850) looks pretty good.

Edit: I also replaced G9 with GH5, because G9 shot was shot with a different lens.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=panasonic_dmcgx7&attr13_1=panasonic_dcgx850&attr13_2=panasonic_dmcgx8&attr13_3=panasonic_dcgh5&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=125&attr16_1=200&attr16_2=200&attr16_3=200&attr126_3=1&attr171_1=1&attr171_2=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.8754052802223251&y=-0.19554618592070477

alcelc wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Adrian Harris wrote:

Although I love the gx7, even using pro lenses it does not produce 'really' sharp images. But on getting a 20mp GX8. I was staggered by the upgrade in image quality.

to get really sharp images from the GX7 (had one for ages) you need E-Shutter more than the GX8 and in the GX7 E-Shutter drops to 10 bit and increased noise .....

GX7 uses a 12 bits e-shutter...

http://m43photo.blogspot.com/2014/05/worse-image-quality-with-e-shutter.html

The GX8 fixed that - 12 bit with no penalty and the Sony made 20Mp sensor has better colour depth , cleaner skies and more DR due to the true-iSO100 business . I`d say yes, the 20Mp sensor cams are a big IQ upgrade for many reasons...... and the GX8 has the perfect EVF IMO too , it`s like a Sony A7R-II one but a bit smaller with none of the optical issues the G9 has and better contrast than the LCDs in the Oly EM1 series

Thanks for that. I was going to correct that misstatement also on the GX7 10 bit

Putting GX850 instead of GX9 makes it even more interesting:

• Top row 16Mp sensors
• Bottom row 20Mp sensors
• First column AA filter
• Second column no AA filter.

In this comparison the 16Mp sensor without AA filter (GX850) looks pretty good.

Edit: I also replaced G9 with GH5, because G9 shot was shot with a different lens.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=panasonic_dmcgx7&attr13_1=panasonic_dcgx850&attr13_2=panasonic_dmcgx8&attr13_3=panasonic_dcgh5&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=125&attr16_1=200&attr16_2=200&attr16_3=200&attr126_3=1&attr171_1=1&attr171_2=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.8754052802223251&y=-0.19554618592070477

This was interesting for sure. Thanks for putting this together.

I never know how much to trust this tool but to my eyes the GX850 (and G85) look the best! Now obviously there are a lot more variables when you think about the shutter, IBIS, cropping, etc.