Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

Started May 5, 2020 | Discussions
Alex Burgess
Alex Burgess Regular Member • Posts: 150
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

AnastieByte wrote:

I own the 18-55 and 16-55. The 16-55 with 2.8 across the range is super sharp and my most used walkabout lens. I have avoided the new zoom due to many reports commenting that it’s not as sharp as expected. Others views may differ.

With. Out. A. Doubt!

16-55 2.8

You will never regret it!

jjz2 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,051
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

JNR wrote:

I have no qualms with the 16-55 in terms of IQ. Modern "bag of primes" that was the well-earned designation of the Pentax 35-105 f/3.5 a few decades ago - except the 16-55 is much better.

And, like so many of us who adopted Fuji for very specific reasons, I will never own one. I'm done with large, heavy lenses (except for the rare need for a very long lens)... so what would be the best option for pro quality kit zoom in the era of IBIS?

If you go back about four decades, the most under-rated ahead of its time zoom kit lens that no one bought (except me - actually twice after the first one was dropped) was the Tokina 24-40 f/2.8. Small, sharp, and versatile (FF film)... UWA to normal - decent wide open. Pentax kind of tried to match it with the APSc 20-40 Limited, but that was not the right range - and the lens wasn't as good as the price was high.

So, Fuji should step out a bit on the design plank and go with a 16-30 (roughly) at f/2.8 - or f/3.2 if size is still an issue. Don't try to make a pro quality zoom into a portrait lens - just give us great IQ from 24mm equivalent to normal perspective... Really, that would be a great achievement. With the image quality of the XC15-30 (mechanics and aperture limits notwithstanding) - this doesn't strike me as a daunting challenge. I'd be first in line.

Not a bad idea. the 35-70 2.8 was very popular in Nikonland for a long time... Everybody just dealt with the reduced focal range, but that saved size and still gave you great images.

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marclw
marclw Senior Member • Posts: 1,388
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens
1

I have an XH-1 and a X-PRO2. My 16-55 lives on the X-H1. I just picked up an almost new 18-55. and that now has found a home on my x-pro2. I'm older (72) and rely a lot on IBIS. I have done so since my Canon IS days.

The 16-55 wins IQ wise. The 18-55 is good, but it doesn't hold a candle to the the 16-55. Both are damn good in the center, but the 16-55 is much better across the frame. I also have the 23mm, 35mm and 50mm f.2 primes. When I need the best IQ, I rely on the 35 and 50. The 23 is somewhat disappointing IQ wise, particularly at f/2 and 2/8.

So, I'd get the "brick." If you're going to spend your money, get the better lens. I learned that when I got my first DSLR, a Canon XT. I bought a 17-85mm f-4-5.6 IS USM for it and almost instantly was not happy with it. I learned. I sold it and then bought an EF 24-105 F/4L IS USM and an EF-S10-22mm f/3.5-4.5. Eventually, I sold the 10-22 and got the EF 17-40 f/4L USM.

So, I would suggest biting the bullet. Lenses are more important than soon to be obsolete bodies. You get what you pay for.

Hope this helps,

Marc

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LenRivers Senior Member • Posts: 3,033
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

I say it is subjective to the user or maybe biased. Only so many other opinions you can compile.  If I was torn and it has happened.  Buy two or three lenses you want and test over a weekend whatever  and make a return to the camera store.

Sometimes it is necessary.   What others like may not be right for you and what you like may not be right for others.  In the end you have to like what you do with your photography.  What results do you need and what cant your current lens do that a new one can. that way you might be able to save money if you find you tend to sell gear quickly or just accept you have to like it.  SO that is why I suggest only so many opinions you can get till you decide to buy or maybe you really dont need what you think you need after all?

tcdc12321 Regular Member • Posts: 164
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

jjz2 wrote:

I personally wouldn't use one of the "kit" lenses if you're gonna go with the bleeding edge XT4...but that's just me... I'd go for something like the 16-55 or 23 1.4 to start to wrangle the quality out of that sucker and take advantage of the IBIS... if not, don't see the point of pre-ordering it to match it with OK glass. Might as well have got the XT2/XT3/XT30 and saved your money.

The XT-4 might be bleeding edge in terms of IBIS, battery life, EVF...but it has same sensor as the X-T30 and X-T3. So you're not "wrangling the quality" out of the X-T4 any more than you would out of these cameras. Plus, the sensor in the X-T2, X-T20, X-E3, X-H1, etc. might have 2 fewer MP, but the quality is basically identical to the newer sensor.

So, in short, there isn't any better of an argument to put a good lens on the X-T4 as you could make for any other recent Fuji camera. If anything, I would be more inclined to use lenses without IBIS like the 16-55 or primes that you mention, or even quality lenses with only decent IS like the 15-45 (at the wide end) and 50-230 (which is better than it gets credit for, IMO, but has weak IS).

My two cents.

tcdc12321 Regular Member • Posts: 164
Re: The Brick

GPAtlanta wrote:

Jerry-astro wrote:

GPAtlanta wrote:

supernova86 wrote:

AnastieByte wrote:

57LowRider wrote:

... the only downside being size/weight compared to the 18-55.

So many people call it “The Brick” but it surprised me by being lighter than I anticipated! Makes up for any “bulk” with it’s stunning optics.

Its 100grams lighter than the Nikon 17-55 f2.8 DX, which is excellent by the way.

I think pairing the XT4 with a 16-55 is a no brainer unless you need something light. In that case, there are many options, from several primes to the XF 18-55 or even a XC 16-50.

The 16-55 image quality is marginal better than the 18-55. Sure if you're shooting professionally, but no way for the average prosumer.. Too heavy and not worth it.

Sorry, but I’ve owned and pretty extensively used both lenses, and I would characterize the IQ differences (particularly on the long end) as significantly greater than marginal. That’s not a ding on the 18-55, mind you, and I enjoyed using that lens for a good long time after acquiring my X-T1 years ago. It’s very versatile and great deal, particularly when purchased as a kit lens. However, the difference in IQ across the lens’ range coupled with the constant f/2.8 aperture strongly differentiate the two IMHO. Also, you’re own characterization of 16-55 as “too heavy” is highly subjective. I use it with the X-H1 and the pair balance beautifully. With a very small body, that may be more of an issue.

So, to each his own, however my own view of the same two lenses strongly differs from yours.

Twice the weight and 3x the price. Is it 3x as good? That's hard to justify.. It might be 1.5x as good. A little better in the corners, sure..

The relationship between price and quality is almost never linear, for any product. If you look on opticallimits, you'll see that in tests the 16-55 is maybe 5-10% better than the 18-55, if that. But, the 16-55 has added range, is WR, and is faster on the long end. So for many people, the upgrade is well worth it.

tcdc12321 Regular Member • Posts: 164
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens
1

Michael Berg wrote:

Hello all,

Recently sold my X-T2 in preparation for my expected GAS ahead of the X-T4 release

Now the time is nearing and since I sold the X-T2 with its kit lens (the 18-55 F2.8-4 OIS), I find myself needing another good, general walk around kit lens.

I kind of planned to get another 18-55 but now Fuji has released the 16-80 F/4 I see that this lens is very highly recommended for just that purpose. Only ... the zoom/focus issues are worrying. I don't do a lot of video work so .. meh. Corner image quality and image quality consistency in general is also somewhat worrying. But the lens just seems to well made.

Now that the X-T4 comes with IBIS, the older 16-55 F/2.8 is suddenly really interesting again. Much better image quality and the X-T4 can now compensate for the missing OIS.

So. Which kit lens would you buy today, along with the X-T4?

I'll shake things up a bit. I would buy the following two kit lenses:

  • 16-55
  • 15-45

The former would be my high-IQ and portrait lens, and the latter would be my lightweight hiking lens. The 15-45 is actually sharper than the 16-55 wide open, believe it or not. It's a really good lens at the wide end, although by 20mm or so it's already down from great to good.

The 18-55 is great, but I would prefer the two above. The 16-80 might not even be as sharp as the 16-50 XC, let alone the 18-55 or 18-135. It's a dud. Not worth of an X-T4.

thomaslux
thomaslux Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

JNR wrote:

.

So, Fuji should step out a bit on the design plank and go with a 16-30 (roughly) at f/2.8 - or f/3.2 if size is still an issue. Don't try to make a pro quality zoom into a portrait lens - just give us great IQ from 24mm equivalent to normal perspective... Really, that would be a great achievement. With the image quality of the XC15-30 (mechanics and aperture limits notwithstanding) - this doesn't strike me as a daunting challenge. I'd be first in line.

You know, you're spot on. While I have little interest in zooms at best, what you've described would be excellent.

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Greg7579
Greg7579 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,777
No-Brainer! Time to Graduate. Get the 16-55!
5

Mike,

It is questions like this that I live for.  It is why this Board needs me.

Absolutely get the 16-55, which I called the Brick for 4 years here on this forum.  I made fun of and ridiculed that lens the day it came out for not having OIS, but after two more years I finally gave in and bought it and it is a spectacular Fuji zoom (and nobody makes better zooms than Fuji).  It is absolutely stellar Fuji glass.  This really is one of the best zooms in the world.  It will be glued to your XT-4 after you get it next week when you order it now.

You are done with the 18-55.  It is time now. This great lens came into its own with the IBIS of the XH-1.  Now all XT-4 owners have to get it.

Mandatory.  No-brainer.  Just do it.

With the XT-4, this question is now moot.  It is a given.

I never want to see this question asked again by any XT-4 owner, but if it is....

Moderators - please have DPR programmers use AI and key word scans on this Board in order to instantly post this response to anyone asking what lens to get with their new XT-4.  Then just lock the thread because it is the only answer anyone needs to this too-often-asked and needlessly redundant question.

Next question please.

Note:  I will be back on in the morning to provide further guidance if you want to know what second lens to buy after the 16-55.

That is all.

Carry on.

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MedicineMan999
MedicineMan999 Senior Member • Posts: 2,300
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

I'd originally ordered the T4+16-80/4 kit zoom. Thought about it, looked at myself and the focal lengths I shoot then discontinued my pre-order for the T4+16-80/4 kit and immediately placed an order for the X-T4 alone.

Point? None really other than the obvious that you don't necessarily have to get the kit

In the mean time I added a Canon 200/2.8 to Fringer on to the T4...a focal length (300 equiv.) I use frequently.

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Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 16,865
Re: No-Brainer! Time to Graduate. Get the 16-55!

Greg7579 wrote:

Mike,

It is questions like this that I live for. It is why this Board needs me.

Absolutely get the 16-55, which I called the Brick for 4 years here on this forum. I made fun of and ridiculed that lens the day it came out for not having OIS, but after two more years I finally gave in and bought it and it is a spectacular Fuji zoom (and nobody makes better zooms than Fuji). It is absolutely stellar Fuji glass. This really is one of the best zooms in the world. It will be glued to your XT-4 after you get it next week when you order it now.

You are done with the 18-55. It is time now. This great lens came into its own with the IBIS of the XH-1. Now all XT-4 owners have to get it.

Mandatory. No-brainer. Just do it.

With the XT-4, this question is now moot. It is a given.

I never want to see this question asked again by any XT-4 owner, but if it is....

Moderators - please have DPR programmers use AI and key word scans on this Board in order to instantly post this response to anyone asking what lens to get with their new XT-4. Then just lock the thread because it is the only answer anyone needs to this too-often-asked and needlessly redundant question.

Next question please.

Note: I will be back on in the morning to provide further guidance if you want to know what second lens to buy after the 16-55.

That is all.

Carry on.

Greg, truly you are a legend in your own mind.

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Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod

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Greg7579
Greg7579 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,777
Re: No-Brainer! Time to Graduate. Get the 16-55!

Jerry-astro wrote:

Greg7579 wrote:

Mike,

It is questions like this that I live for. It is why this Board needs me.

Absolutely get the 16-55, which I called the Brick for 4 years here on this forum. I made fun of and ridiculed that lens the day it came out for not having OIS, but after two more years I finally gave in and bought it and it is a spectacular Fuji zoom (and nobody makes better zooms than Fuji). It is absolutely stellar Fuji glass. This really is one of the best zooms in the world. It will be glued to your XT-4 after you get it next week when you order it now.

You are done with the 18-55. It is time now. This great lens came into its own with the IBIS of the XH-1. Now all XT-4 owners have to get it.

Mandatory. No-brainer. Just do it.

With the XT-4, this question is now moot. It is a given.

I never want to see this question asked again by any XT-4 owner, but if it is....

Moderators - please have DPR programmers use AI and key word scans on this Board in order to instantly post this response to anyone asking what lens to get with their new XT-4. Then just lock the thread because it is the only answer anyone needs to this too-often-asked and needlessly redundant question.

Next question please.

Note: I will be back on in the morning to provide further guidance if you want to know what second lens to buy after the 16-55.

That is all.

Carry on.

Greg, truly you are a legend in your own mind.

Yes.... Haha.  Just having some fun.

But he really should get the Brick.

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Joachim Gerstl
Joachim Gerstl Veteran Member • Posts: 8,643
No question
2

Hi,

Simply get the 16-55 and report back. The only ones who think that the 16-55 is only a little better than the 18-55 never shot with the 16-55. Everybody who changed to the 16-55 knows how much better this lens is. It's like night and day.

Here are some samples. Look at the sun rays in the first image. It's not even close.

http://www.littlebigtravelingcamera.com/?p=12104

I would prefer the 16-55 on any camera but on the X-T4 or X-H1 it is a no brainer.

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a_c_skinner Forum Pro • Posts: 10,786
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

Ha! You may be right.  I wanted to upgrade my 16-50, largely because of my prejudice against plastic bayonets.  I looked long and hard at the 16-55, 18-135 and 18-55 and each had pros and cons.  The 16-80 similarly. I bought the 16-55.  If the 16-50 were more metal I'd probably have stuck with that.

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Andrew Skinner

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ProfPS Regular Member • Posts: 471
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

Michael Berg wrote:

Hello all,

Recently sold my X-T2 in preparation for my expected GAS ahead of the X-T4 release

Now the time is nearing and since I sold the X-T2 with its kit lens (the 18-55 F2.8-4 OIS), I find myself needing another good, general walk around kit lens.

I kind of planned to get another 18-55 but now Fuji has released the 16-80 F/4 I see that this lens is very highly recommended for just that purpose. Only ... the zoom/focus issues are worrying. I don't do a lot of video work so .. meh. Corner image quality and image quality consistency in general is also somewhat worrying. But the lens just seems to well made.

Now that the X-T4 comes with IBIS, the older 16-55 F/2.8 is suddenly really interesting again. Much better image quality and the X-T4 can now compensate for the missing OIS.

So. Which kit lens would you buy today, along with the X-T4?

I wanted the XT4 mainly for use on the 200mm prime but I guess as kit lenses go that's a bit extreme. I did test the 16-55 and for various reasons am not as enthusiastic yet as most, plus it's almost as bulky as a full frame f2.8 zoom,  but I do love the 23mm primes (started with the 1.4 but knowing what I know now, would go with the f2 and not look back - exceptional image quality regardless of price).

Michael Berg
OP Michael Berg Contributing Member • Posts: 876
Thoughts on the 18-55 2.8-4 as a kit lens. And does FW 1.02 fix the focus wobble issue?

Well.

The X-T4 is not bleeding edge in any other sense than being the "newest" in the X-T family. It shares a lot with  the X-T3, including the sensor. In a lot of ways, this is an upgraded X-T3 camera.

I'm buying it because of the IBIS, because I happen to own a number of vintage M42 lenses that aren't sharp or bleeding edge in any way, just a lot of fun to use. And fully manual and not stabilized in any way

A good all purpose lens is supposed to be able to survive extended periods in a camera bag, though airport scanners, being banged around in airline overhead compartments, being dropped or dinged etc, and while I'm sure all these lenses are able to do that, my mental health would suffer if any of that happened to the 16-55 because of its price. No doubt it is the best of those lenses regarding image quality but .. well, the bulk. The heft.  And are my eyes really good enough to tell the difference after all?

Regarding kit lenses, the 18-55 2.8-4 only just barely qualifies as a kit lens in the traditional sense. It is much, much better than any kit lens from other vendors including Nikon or Canon. It is a really well built lens with excellent optical qualities, that is very sharp and contrasty across the range. I really do love that lens, also because it's relatively cheap and light.

The 16-80 does give me more range but I'm not sure about the quality. There is a focus wobble issue which has a lot of owners reconsidering their purchase. Especially for video. Some say that a recent firmware 1.02 update has fixed it but I haven't been able to find much information about that.

Perhaps someone here knows?

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georgehudetz Veteran Member • Posts: 4,981
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

Only reason NOT to get the 16-55 is that you think it's too heavy.  In that case, get the 16-80.  Otherwise, 16-55 all the way.  X-T4/16-55 will become a legendary combo - a bigger legend than even The Greg himself.

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Maxxum Fan Regular Member • Posts: 452
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens
2

a_c_skinner wrote:

Yep, Ken Rockwell likes it.

He likes everything as it helps his affiliate links. Also gets free trips and doesn't disclose them. Find a better more trusted source of information

R_U_Q_R_U
R_U_Q_R_U Senior Member • Posts: 1,325
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

Doug MacMillan wrote:

I've seen the brick but never shot with it. If I were to buy the T4, I'd pair it with the brick.

The XF16-55mmF2.8 R LM WR is my main walk around lens. Not that heavy at all. Still lighter than an equivalent FF rig.

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Sometimes the light's all shinin' on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been.

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a_c_skinner Forum Pro • Posts: 10,786
Re: Buying the X-T4 - but which kit lens

A little tongue in cheek of course, but he has posted some nice sharp pictures from it.

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Andrew Skinner

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