S1 panning juddery in 25fps or is mine just faulty?

[Bally84]

Hi S1 owners,

I wanted to find out if I'm doing something wrong either settings wise or if I have a faulty camera.

Or if there is an issue with viewing the footage on my computer.

I find that 25fps panning is always really juddery (and sometimes 50fps - so slowing this down to 25fps shows the judder) even if I pan really slow.

Please find example files, straight from the camera here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Airsq6wpkliKgcZDLdgVGBIAT-lzzQ?e=HZhK8F

The files in there are:

24fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

25fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

30fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

50fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

60fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

I live in PAL land so have to have a shutter speed divisible by 50 to prevent flickering.

I have 'auto exposure in P/A/S/M video' set to off so I can control everything manually.

I have also tried the same settings in the creative video mode with 'M' as the exposure type.

I have also tried resetting the camera settings and still get the same issues. They can be found in the 'After Camera RESET' folder. They are:

24fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

25fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

30fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

50fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

60fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

Are you all seeing the same thing I am?

How are your 25fps on your camera? (the new firmware allows everyone to shoot 25/50fps now.

Do I have a faulty camera?

Please help!

Thanks,

Bally

 

[Shirozina]

I have not looked at your samples but panning in cinema frame rates is always problematic unless done very, very slowly - even back in the day on film. Today this is compounded by most monitors having a 60hz refresh rate which means 24/25 can never be displayed correctly and requires frame interpolation and ‘pull down’ Also add rolling shutter on all CMOS sensors and panning anything is fraught with judder problems unless you use a higher frame rate. Lastly doing a slow smooth pan also requires a very, very good fluid head, a very solid tripod and very good technique.

 

[eFilm]

I wanted to find out if I'm doing something wrong either settings wise or if I have a faulty camera.

Or if there is an issue with viewing the footage on my computer.

I find that 25fps panning is always really juddery (and sometimes 50fps - so slowing this down to 25fps shows the judder) even if I pan really slow.

Are you all seeing the same thing I am?

How are your 25fps on your camera? (the new firmware allows everyone to shoot 25/50fps now.

Do I have a faulty camera?

Please help!

Thanks,

Bally

I watched one clip (that played normally in that link) and it appears to be fairly 'typical' panning shot. Not likely a faulty camera.

If you compare the foreground movement to the background movement that is slower, the background does not judder the same way, does it.

The solution for now, just be more careful with your panning shots. Especially with panning speed and whatever is in the foreground, thus moving much faster.

Besides, panning is the least aesthetic camera move right after zooming, and often overdone by the newbies. Practise the other moves as well, and especially shooting in sequences, moving the camera in between the takes, not during them. Kinda like they do it in the movies. In any frame rate.

Just keep on shooting. The camera is fine.

 

[Bally84]

Thanks for the time in looking and the suggestions so far.

Does anyone have any 25p footage (just a little sample) straight out of the camera that they could upload so I can see what the playback is like on my computer?

 

[paulsch]

Hi S1 owners,

I wanted to find out if I'm doing something wrong either settings wise or if I have a faulty camera.

Or if there is an issue with viewing the footage on my computer.

I find that 25fps panning is always really juddery (and sometimes 50fps - so slowing this down to 25fps shows the judder) even if I pan really slow.

Please find example files, straight from the camera here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Airsq6wpkliKgcZDLdgVGBIAT-lzzQ?e=HZhK8F

The files in there are:

24fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

25fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

30fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

50fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

60fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

I live in PAL land so have to have a shutter speed divisible by 50 to prevent flickering.

I have 'auto exposure in P/A/S/M video' set to off so I can control everything manually.

I have also tried the same settings in the creative video mode with 'M' as the exposure type.

I have also tried resetting the camera settings and still get the same issues. They can be found in the 'After Camera RESET' folder. They are:

24fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

25fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

30fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

50fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

60fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

Are you all seeing the same thing I am?

How are your 25fps on your camera? (the new firmware allows everyone to shoot 25/50fps now.

Do I have a faulty camera?

Please help!

Thanks,

Bally

I am not an S1 owner but still: Maybe you need to check your image stabilization settings.

It should be set that it will not try to stabilize in the panning direction. I think the “auto” setting detects panning but that may not be the default setting.

 

[richgb]

Yes, the image stabliser settings can be adjusted for panning - see p182 in the Operating Instructions (book).

However, it's not clear whether this adjustment applies to still- or video photography or both. Nevertheless, a quick test should soon determine whether it makes any difference.

 

[RJohn]

Hi S1 owners,

I wanted to find out if I'm doing something wrong either settings wise or if I have a faulty camera.

Or if there is an issue with viewing the footage on my computer.

I find that 25fps panning is always really juddery (and sometimes 50fps - so slowing this down to 25fps shows the judder) even if I pan really slow.

Please find example files, straight from the camera here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Airsq6wpkliKgcZDLdgVGBIAT-lzzQ?e=HZhK8F

The files in there are:

24fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

25fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

30fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

50fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

60fps M.MOV = Mode 'M', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

I live in PAL land so have to have a shutter speed divisible by 50 to prevent flickering.

I have 'auto exposure in P/A/S/M video' set to off so I can control everything manually.

I have also tried the same settings in the creative video mode with 'M' as the exposure type.

I have also tried resetting the camera settings and still get the same issues. They can be found in the 'After Camera RESET' folder. They are:

24fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

25fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

30fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/50 shutter (10 bit)

50fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

60fps C RESET.MOV = Mode 'Creative VIdeo', 1/100 shutter (8 bit)

Are you all seeing the same thing I am?

How are your 25fps on your camera? (the new firmware allows everyone to shoot 25/50fps now.

Do I have a faulty camera?

Please help!

Thanks,

Bally

Straight off RED.com

The rule of thumb is to pan no faster than a full image width every seven seconds, otherwise judder will become too detrimental. This rule is especially simple and powerful because it applies regardless of camera lens, model or sensor size