Older gear in 2020

peppermonkey wrote:

Impulses wrote:

peppermonkey wrote:

Still, and probably remains, the smallest M43 cameras to be produced. Tiny but lacking in build quality, albeit, missing some functionality because of its small size. Still, it's 16mp sensor is comparable to modern M43 in IQ.

Did you mean "but notlacking in build quality"? Just saving ya some grief before the GM faithful pick up their pitchforks.

Bahaha, yes, just read it and immediately groaned inwards asking myself how I messed that one up

If you want the smallest of the small, these are still the ultimate portable M43 cameras. I would recommend the two without hesitation (as long as it's not TOOOOOO small for you).

I need to get around to selling my GM1, my GX850 all but replaced it and does a few things better for a very minimal size penalty (still significantly smaller than an E-PL or anything but the GMs)... Even the GX850 is becoming scarce tho, I think Best Buy still carries it but other big stores don't. Both of 'em can definitely be found far cheaper than the GM5, since the unique proposition of the EVF on that one and lack of an equivalent replacement has made used prices skyrocket.

I gotta thank Tom our mod for turning me unto these small bodies... When they first came out I thought they were kinda pointless since I'd still need a bag when using it with anything but a pancake, but I've found so many uses for them both as a second body and as my main one. My only significant complaint about the GX850 (underrated IMO) is that like the GM bodies it drops to e-shutter and 10-bit readout with manual lenses (since Pana doesn't let you use EFC with those and these bodies lack a physical first curtain).

It makes it less than optimal for my Laowa 7.5/2 and Bower fisheye, but I still use them on it, just gotta be more careful to nail exposure.

Actually, the 10 bit readout hasn't bothered me at all so far. Actually, totally forgot about it. Probably because of the lenses I use with it mostly (20mm, 12-32mm, 15mm).

Yes, the GX850 and its selfie screen does interest me. Might get one (or newer model) one day. Currently I'm totally happy with my GM1 though.

Been wanting the Laowa but I still love my Rokinon (i.e. your Bower) and recently picked to the Oly 9-18mm so the Laowa will have to wait... Or to clarify, my better half would kill me if I get the Laowa right now

yes, given its size, the a Laowa is tempting but, like you, with fIsheye and UWA zoom, it just isn’t justifiable.

If you take low down architecture, mini-tripod on the floor, the tilt screen makes an enormous difference. The GM1 tends to stay home now when travelling, in its place the GF7 with UWA lens is much easier to use. This plus a second body with EVF GM5 or G80 depending on carry-on constraints. The GF7 is plasticky in feel but performs  very well and, bonus, uses the same battery as the two GMs.

GF7 examples https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157688671554052

AllFlawed wrote:

windmillgolfer wrote:

Older could mean several upgrades behind e.g. Panasonic G6 versus the current G90. Another way is by price, after a couple of years a camera can be bought brand new at circa 50 to 60% of its original price. So, for me, the Panasonics G9 and G80.

Compacts, the LX7 and FZ330.

The FZ330 is a contemporary camera and pretty cheap new for a fixed f2.8 aperture ratio camera. i would think the older more compact and daintier FZ200 would have greater appeal as the FZ330 does suffer a bit from that Panasonic version bloat.

The 8 year old FZ200 is certainly cheaper and smaller with a very good lens but the FZ330 is a much more complete camera. I’ve had both. The FZ330 is now 5 years old and the price has held well but it was available for £299 from the Panasonic UK refurb outlet on eBay . I notice that since lockdown/ Corvid the price has increased to nearer £399.

CassR wrote:

Edward Lowy wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

alan scott wrote:

I still have and use a black EP5 - put the 15mm on it and it's my minimal kit camera.

Love the styling, I much prefer the 'rangefinder' look to the 'slr' look.

I'd love a new version with the innards of the EM5 3, a built in viewfinder and weather proofing.

Two E-P5 and I swap over about every 6 months to even out the wear, usually is seen as below with the 12-40/2.8

Nothing since then has raised any interest for me, I simply add another lens now and then.

Old Faithful and the New Interloper. Absolutely love the EP5, just got the PEN-F.

I agree with you Guy about the EP5, a phenomenal camera that suits me so well. Will have to see if the F brings anything to the party (apart from its sheer beautiful presence!)

Favourite lens by a country mile is the Olympus 45mm f1.8.

That's my favourite lens also. Not very practical just makes me happy!

Never tried it on an oly body though as I have a G7 and a GM1.

I actually really like using it in my G7 as the ergonomics of that camera make the lens easier to handle with no ois in the camera body.

Very tempted to look at a second hand EP5...

I think the EP5 is very special - but as with everything in this forum, each to their own. Apart from being lovely to use and taking wonderful pictures, despite the operator, it is also the camera that attracts most compliments from others in terms of its design.

I have all three, all bought at firesales in 2016, 2017, 2018.

GX8: highly praised by several previous replies. First camera with 20MP sensor, outstanding EVF. Feels pro and sturdy in hand. My most used camera since I have it.

Emperor Qin' army, XI'An, China, june 2019

Tang danses, Xi'An, China, june 2019

Rice terraces, Longsheng, China, june 2019

Rice terraces, Longsheng, China, june 2019

GM5: high grade miniature body, also highly praised. Smaller than a cigarettes pack, not much bigger than a pack of playing cards, yet built to high standards. Also has an electronic first curtain shutter (= no shutter shock). my faithful 2nd camera since fall 2016.

Da Nang, Vietnam, nov 2017

Ha Long, Vietnam, nov 2017

Siem Reap, Cambodia, nov 2017

Firenze, may 2018

Siena, may 2018

Siena, may 2018

Toulouse, France, my daughter: test of Mecablitz 26AF2 flashgun remote trigerred by the small flashgun bundled with the GM5, jan 2018

G7: kind of poor man's G80, roughly same form factor, ergonomy and features set, save for the lack of IBIS. Could still be bought in march in my country new with the Lumix 14-140 f3.5-5.6 for only 150/200 € more than the lens alone. My previous first camera before I bought the GX8.

Firenze, may 2018

Firenze, may 2018

Firenze, may 2018

San Gimigniano, Tuscany, may 2018

San Gimigniano, Tuscany, may 2018

Siena, may 2018

Guy Parsons wrote:

Edward Lowy wrote:

I think the EP5 is very special - but as with everything in this forum, each to their own. Apart from being lovely to use and taking wonderful pictures, despite the operator, it is also the camera that attracts most compliments from others in terms of its design.

Indeed. A little while back when a local store had big Olympus discounts I had a vague thought of maybe getting a Pen-F. But when I saw the Pen-F again up close again after a few years I was dismayed by the clunky old fashioned look compared to my E-P5. So abandoned that idea.

Later again there was a stupid low price on a new E-M10 Mk2 so I did get one, not to use, but to explore the features of the newer TruePic chip such as Live Composite and focus bracketing and the electronic shutter. Result, a small camera but oh such a clunky old fashioned design, I simply don't like the look of it and the too hard to thumb twist Mode dial which I use a lot on my E-P5 to get to the assigned MySets. That power switch on the wrong side of the E-M10 Mk2 also annoys me.

Whoa, for some reason I never realized older Oly E-Px bodies had the power switch on the right side (probably because I started off with Pana bodies)... I thought putting it on the left was some kinda obstinate Oly tradition.

At least the newer E-M5/E-M1 bodies let you reprogram the 2x2 lever as the on/off switch, clearly a sign that a lot of other people dislike it on the left hand too... I'm still weighing whether to do so on my E-M5 III (or whetter to use it to switch AF modes).

Those older E-Ps definitely had a really clean aesthetic, retro without emulating old aesthetics too  much.

I have four Panasonic bodies, three of which definitely qualify as older, and all of which I would and do still recommend:

GM5 - already covered by others above.

GX7 - mentioned by a few above, I still shoot with this and it's a classic to me after starting in MFT with a GF1 and then a GX1.  The GX7 was an amazing release, incorporating the tilting EVF into the body, a tilting LCD, two control dials, metal build, peaking, first IBIS in a Panasonic, better sensor, etc.  I do still recommend it on this forum.  Better grip than either of its two successors, GX85 and GX9.  Better features in many respects than the GX85.

GX8 - fabulous EVF, build, and IQ.  The best RF-styled MFT camera still, IMO.

the fourth is the G9, which is a current camera, but as someone else has mentioned, it is selling new for the stunning price of $1,000, just under 60% of its release price, so there's no need to buy a used one.  Best camera I have ever owned.

The amazing range of bodies for the MFT mount

Tatouzou wrote:

G7: kind of poor man's G80, roughly same form factor, ergonomy and features set, save for the lack of IBIS. Could still be bought in march in my country new with the Lumix 14-140 f3.5-5.6 for only 150/200 € more than the lens alone. My previous first camera before I bought the GX8.

G80 has IBIS, weather sealing, much more silent and shock-free shutter, no AA filter...

I have a G7 and a G80. They are giving away G80's for 350€ right now (from a reputable store; including 24% VAT of course).

I started watching Camera Conspiracies YouTube channel again recently, and there is no video where he does not mention how incredible the G85 (=G80) is...

There are many classic µ4/3 cameras that are worth it, but at those prices, it does not make much sense to buy a second hand G7 for 250€, when you can get a new G80 for €350-€400.

Yes the GM1 is my backup body/2nd body on trips. I use a G85 now as primary

Thank you for posting your beautiful pictures. They are all wonderful but your Tuscan pictures reminded me of our visit to this region some time ago, At the time I was not quite so keen on photography as I am now so my pictures of the trip are limited, ah well, just have to go back! Thanks again.

I even still have and occasionally use the E-M5 (from 2012). But I mainly use the E-M5 II and given the tripod connector problems on the mark III I'm unlikely to "upgrade".

The 12-40 is now a 5 year old lens and is still my main workhorse. It is also still the best wide to standard zoom lens Olympus has on offer. There have been no updates to this lens, nor for the 7-14 and 40-150 pro, which complete my set.

The very oldest lens I still have is the Pana 20mm f/1.7 and it is useful for a very small carry-around setup.

I'm a photographer on a "beer" budget, but more like a craft beer budget, I tend to be using older gear even as I gradually buy and replace camera bodies.

One camera that should be on any list of older but still very useful would be the Olympus E M10, whether it be the Mark I, II or III.  Anyone looking for a really good micro 4/3 body can't really go wrong, especially with the Mark II which did have some nice improvements over the Mark I.  And, if you follow prices, right now Adorama is offering the Mark II with the 14-42 kit lens for only $300!

And with the current market prices for used Olympus E M5 Mark II camera bodies, it is certainly an older model that is still worth owning and using.

The bottom line is that a lot of cameras that date from the last 10 years were capable of capturing great images.  Technological advances have added more capabilities and user tools on newer camera bodies and may make it easier to capture great images in challenging situations but the bottom line is that we can see great images captured by cameras going back decades!  And those cameras, if still in top condition are still capable of capturing great images if the user knows what they are doing!

I used to impose a beer budget on myself but I found I upgraded more often so I'm not sure I saved any money - or much money, and I was always 1-2 generations behind and missing some of the new tech I'm enjoying now.

Had I bought the EM1.2 close to when it was first available for $1,600 I would not have been interested in upgrading since. I am not now. I might have enjoyed 10 years out of it. $160+ tax a year. I can afford that.

Beer budget was a better strategy before sensor improvement started to flatten out. I recently paid $900 for a new EM5.3. Seems like a lot compared to what you can buy an EM10.2 or EM5.2 for. Even an EM5 and the like is still a great camera and you can buy a good one for little more than $150.

But I think I'm going to have the EM5.3 for many years. If I have it for 5 years I'll probably take 50,000 to100,000 shots with it. Not sure because I don't know the split between the EM5.3 and EM1.2.

So...If I spent $300 for an EM10.2 - a great camera, I could have saved $600+ 10% tax where I live. $660 divided by 5 years = $135 a year. If I couldn't come up with $135 more a year I'd be worried about having enough money to buy food and not giving a thought to cameras and lenses I might be selling for food money.

For that delta in cost I will not deny myself all the new and improved tech because I do find it useful. I am getting better photos than I did with the EM5 and it is easier to get them. With moving subjects it is no contest.

Lenses are forever. For those, except when light weight is the highest priority I pay what must to buy the best for the application.

I can live with older generation consumer grade bodies and lenses but overtime, for me, it isn't worth saving so small an amount of money, less than what I spend on two months of internet and cell phone service.