How many batteries to get

Total of 6 should be enough.

OutsideTheMatrix wrote:

Impulses wrote:

You posted a bunch of questions about solar power, USB power, etc. throughout the thread, so rather than answering them under each comment imma just dump it all in this post.

As to the original question, I seldom used more than 2 a day with my E-M5 II (YMMV) but still had 1 OEM, 1 Watson (B&H house brand, a little more reliable than other 3rd parties) and a couple third party extras which I rarely touched. For my E-M5 III (which uses the same battery as your E-M10 or E-PL) I just bought a second OEM battery for now, might add a third later but that body can charge directly over USB so it's not a pressing need.

On USB charging: Even if you have a camera that can't charge directly over USB (don't think you do), you can still resort to the next best thing and get a slim USB charger for your batteries that you can then hook up directly to any car charger, power bank, etc. Basically just get something like this, loads of uses for it (I have that very one and it's working fine, that bad review wasn't there when I bought it, loads of similar ones on Amazon tho):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F47XYLT/

On solar power: You never want to go straight from a solar source to the camera, the voltage just won't be anywhere near reliable enough. What pretty much everybody does is use a solar panel to charge a larger external power bank (or your camera batteries using a charger like the one I linked before). I've had good luck with a BigBlue 28W model that has both USB Type A and Type C ports but I'm not seeing it on Amazon right now, similar to this one tho (again, lots of others to choose from):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EXWCPLC/

On external power w/a 3rd party coupler (and a USB source): I'd just point you to the thread below which covers similar solutions for the E-M5 III:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63686722

I'm still testing the Tether Tools Case Relay thing I bought along with the third party BLS-5/50 coupler I bought from:

http://helge-suess.com/hardware-en/battery-adapter-bln-1-and-bls-5/

https://www.tethertools.com/case-relay-camera-power-system/

More recently I've found a couple other cheaper non-DIY solutions for voltage stepping in order to use a USB source, tho they aren't meant to be used strictly with Oly bodies and the lack of a built in battery means you can't hot swap your USB power bank or charger (then again, the Case Relay seems to have iffy long term reviews regarding it's main advantage, that battery). I bought this to first examine how well it works with my Pana body and then maybe see if it would work with my Oly too:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076HXNV69/

You wouldn't need any special power banks for any of these solutions (be it the USB charger, solar, or direct external power), since none of them take advantage of USB-C or USB Power Delivery as the E-M1 III does:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63733305

That standard is the future tho, it greatly simplifies things in the long run, scales up for all kinds of devices, and you may already have a phone (or tablet or laptop) that takes advantage of it so if you're buying a new power bank it makes sense to get one with both standard USB Type A 5V/2A out as well as USB Type C with PD.

Hope that helps, happy to answer any other questions...

Edit: Oh yeah, best tip for battery was savings is just getting in the habit of powering off the camera when idle and/or using power saving modes. Mirrorless battery life is best thought of in terms of uptime rather than shot count as dictated by CIPA's outdated and uneven testing scheme (which is more relevant for DSLRs and is heavily biased against any camera with a built in flash, unless you happen to use that flash for half your shots).

The reason for that is because the camera is always consuming power due to the displays and the sensor feed to them, the act of actually taking a shot (or IBIS or just about anything else but for video) takes up a negligible amount of extra power compared to that constant draw. Simply put, you're gonna get close to the same uptime out of your battery regardless of whether you take 200 shots or 2,000 (and that's not an exaggeration).

The video specs/uptime numbers usually give you close to a worst case scenario for how long each battery will last in use (usually a couples hours if you leave the camera powered on the entire time).

Thanks this was very useful! Sounds like if I do a lot of timelapse and keep the camera on for an hour or two per day I'll be using up a lot of power! I was hoping that sleep mode in between timelapse shots would save some energy but I guess not.

It'll help some for sure, provided the camera is actually set to sleep in time thru the time lapse interval... That'll be as good as turning it off. I dunno how well Oly handles this but Pana handles it really really well (I've taken hours long time lapses on the miniscule GM1 battery). I think Oly has improved their time lapse functionality over time, I've not checked it out on my E-M5 III, on the Mk II it was still pretty crude and that's why I still reached for my Pana bodies for that at times.

I wrote elsewhere that the external power I was thinking of connecting to the camera is an iSun BattPak, which can both charge AA batteries (up to 10) and also serve as a power source. I wonder if that would work with my dummy battery solution?

It might, provided it puts out the appropriate voltage (you'd have to look that up for you camera)... A bunch of AA batteries are gonna be less space/power efficient than a LiIo USB power bank, but it's one route.

Helge Suess sounds familiar! Is he from Austria? That might be from whom I bought my solution from back in 2016 when I got my EPL6. I never had a chance to use it (it's still sitting around); I was waiting to get a bigger camera, and now I have that in the EM10MK2. He advised me to go to a hardware store and get a variable voltage device, a DC input (for external battery power) and AC (for outlet power.) I got both.

Yeah he's Austrian IIRC.

I checked out Case Relay, they dont have anything for BLS batteries.

They don't make a coupler for the BLS-5/50 batteries (hence why I bought one from Helge, just didn't feel like messing around with a spare to make my own, he seemed to have it down pat anyway); but that doesn't mean you can't use their Case Relay system with someone else's coupler (eg Helge's), the battery end uses a standard barrel connector and the device/battery will handle the voltage conversion from a USB source to what the camera needs (and as a bonus you can hot swap that source).

Getting back to solar charging, the way I do this is with an Anker Powerport 21w solar panel to USB, and to always carry a USB camera battery charger.  Then cycle between 2 or 3 batteries so I always have a charged battery in the camera, while another is charging.  Add in a slim 10,000mah power bank for when it gets dark, and then you have weeks, or months of continual portable battery power.

Ruairi wrote:

Getting back to solar charging, the way I do this is with an Anker Powerport 21w solar panel to USB, and to always carry a USB camera battery charger. Then cycle between 2 or 3 batteries so I always have a charged battery in the camera, while another is charging. Add in a slim 10,000mah power bank for when it gets dark, and then you have weeks, or months of continual portable battery power.

Nice!  My 3 BLS batteries sounds ideal then.  I have 6 batteries of the same type for other cameras and I find that gets confusing because I cant keep track of them and whether or not I'm using some batteries more than others.  Having 3 of the same type makes it much easier to keep track.

Impulses wrote:

OutsideTheMatrix wrote:

Impulses wrote:

You posted a bunch of questions about solar power, USB power, etc. throughout the thread, so rather than answering them under each comment imma just dump it all in this post.

As to the original question, I seldom used more than 2 a day with my E-M5 II (YMMV) but still had 1 OEM, 1 Watson (B&H house brand, a little more reliable than other 3rd parties) and a couple third party extras which I rarely touched. For my E-M5 III (which uses the same battery as your E-M10 or E-PL) I just bought a second OEM battery for now, might add a third later but that body can charge directly over USB so it's not a pressing need.

On USB charging: Even if you have a camera that can't charge directly over USB (don't think you do), you can still resort to the next best thing and get a slim USB charger for your batteries that you can then hook up directly to any car charger, power bank, etc. Basically just get something like this, loads of uses for it (I have that very one and it's working fine, that bad review wasn't there when I bought it, loads of similar ones on Amazon tho):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F47XYLT/

On solar power: You never want to go straight from a solar source to the camera, the voltage just won't be anywhere near reliable enough. What pretty much everybody does is use a solar panel to charge a larger external power bank (or your camera batteries using a charger like the one I linked before). I've had good luck with a BigBlue 28W model that has both USB Type A and Type C ports but I'm not seeing it on Amazon right now, similar to this one tho (again, lots of others to choose from):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EXWCPLC/

On external power w/a 3rd party coupler (and a USB source): I'd just point you to the thread below which covers similar solutions for the E-M5 III:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63686722

I'm still testing the Tether Tools Case Relay thing I bought along with the third party BLS-5/50 coupler I bought from:

http://helge-suess.com/hardware-en/battery-adapter-bln-1-and-bls-5/

https://www.tethertools.com/case-relay-camera-power-system/

More recently I've found a couple other cheaper non-DIY solutions for voltage stepping in order to use a USB source, tho they aren't meant to be used strictly with Oly bodies and the lack of a built in battery means you can't hot swap your USB power bank or charger (then again, the Case Relay seems to have iffy long term reviews regarding it's main advantage, that battery). I bought this to first examine how well it works with my Pana body and then maybe see if it would work with my Oly too:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076HXNV69/

You wouldn't need any special power banks for any of these solutions (be it the USB charger, solar, or direct external power), since none of them take advantage of USB-C or USB Power Delivery as the E-M1 III does:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63733305

That standard is the future tho, it greatly simplifies things in the long run, scales up for all kinds of devices, and you may already have a phone (or tablet or laptop) that takes advantage of it so if you're buying a new power bank it makes sense to get one with both standard USB Type A 5V/2A out as well as USB Type C with PD.

Hope that helps, happy to answer any other questions...

Edit: Oh yeah, best tip for battery was savings is just getting in the habit of powering off the camera when idle and/or using power saving modes. Mirrorless battery life is best thought of in terms of uptime rather than shot count as dictated by CIPA's outdated and uneven testing scheme (which is more relevant for DSLRs and is heavily biased against any camera with a built in flash, unless you happen to use that flash for half your shots).

The reason for that is because the camera is always consuming power due to the displays and the sensor feed to them, the act of actually taking a shot (or IBIS or just about anything else but for video) takes up a negligible amount of extra power compared to that constant draw. Simply put, you're gonna get close to the same uptime out of your battery regardless of whether you take 200 shots or 2,000 (and that's not an exaggeration).

The video specs/uptime numbers usually give you close to a worst case scenario for how long each battery will last in use (usually a couples hours if you leave the camera powered on the entire time).

Thanks this was very useful! Sounds like if I do a lot of timelapse and keep the camera on for an hour or two per day I'll be using up a lot of power! I was hoping that sleep mode in between timelapse shots would save some energy but I guess not.

It'll help some for sure, provided the camera is actually set to sleep in time thru the time lapse interval... That'll be as good as turning it off. I dunno how well Oly handles this but Pana handles it really really well (I've taken hours long time lapses on the miniscule GM1 battery). I think Oly has improved their time lapse functionality over time, I've not checked it out on my E-M5 III, on the Mk II it was still pretty crude and that's why I still reached for my Pana bodies for that at times.

I wrote elsewhere that the external power I was thinking of connecting to the camera is an iSun BattPak, which can both charge AA batteries (up to 10) and also serve as a power source. I wonder if that would work with my dummy battery solution?

It might, provided it puts out the appropriate voltage (you'd have to look that up for you camera)... A bunch of AA batteries are gonna be less space/power efficient than a LiIo USB power bank, but it's one route.

Helge Suess sounds familiar! Is he from Austria? That might be from whom I bought my solution from back in 2016 when I got my EPL6. I never had a chance to use it (it's still sitting around); I was waiting to get a bigger camera, and now I have that in the EM10MK2. He advised me to go to a hardware store and get a variable voltage device, a DC input (for external battery power) and AC (for outlet power.) I got both.

Yeah he's Austrian IIRC.

I checked out Case Relay, they dont have anything for BLS batteries.

They don't make a coupler for the BLS-5/50 batteries (hence why I bought one from Helge, just didn't feel like messing around with a spare to make my own, he seemed to have it down pat anyway); but that doesn't mean you can't use their Case Relay system with someone else's coupler (eg Helge's), the battery end uses a standard barrel connector and the device/battery will handle the voltage conversion from a USB source to what the camera needs (and as a bonus you can hot swap that source).

Yes I was reconsidering Case Relay, because it seems more flexible than lugging around those AC/DC inputs that I bought from the hardware store.

I'm considering getting that USB power bank because it's more portable than what I have.  With the BattPak I can adjust the voltage by putting in different numbers of AA batteries (it has to be an even number up to 10.)

I'll dive into the menu system on both my mirrorless cameras, I do recall the screen turning off during my timelapses with my EPL6 even when there was only a 2 min gap between images.  What used up battery power was me trying to examine the captures for extended lengths of time on the LCD.  The EM10Mk2 is newer so should be better.  I was actually considering getting the EM5Mk2, but it uses different batteries and I would have had to get a different adapter from Helge.  On top of that its sensor seems to be slightly worse (older) than the one on the EM10Mk2.  Looks like Olympus is always playing catch up to Panasonic lol.  I remember when Olympus used to be the innovators and were the first to develop new features (like pixel mapping, which I have on my old prosumer Olympus C-7070 from 2005 and the ultrasonic wave filter, which is still the best dust reduction system in the business.)

Yar1971 wrote:

OutsideTheMatrix wrote:

Question about the external battery thing, instead of having a dummy battery to ac adapter with cord, how about dummy battery to an external power source that takes AA size batteries. I have something called the iSun BattPak that can use up to 10 batteries at a time and can both charge them and be used as a power source.

Also, I would love to see images from your Karakoram trek! How long do you think I would last with 3 batteries? What about in the summer in a warmer climate?

O.K., I guess we are talking now about special case, when You need extra power demand for long tripod sessions (time lapses, night photo etc.) External, portable power source is a good way. Some astrophotographers could be the experts here, You may look after their solutions.

External battery pack (in awide sense) seems best, but I strongly discourage use of AA cells, unless You mean rechargeable ones (or even then). They have low capacity, so You need plenty of them. I would rather think about D size...

There are many possible solutions: If You find USB dummy battery adapter You may use large powerbank. If You find dummy battery adapter for 9/12V You may use home made pack of D cells or a small gel 12V akumulator, whatever.

If You find broken camera battery, You may make Your own adapter. There are DC voltage regulators/stabilisers , there are step-down DC converters. Simple regulator could be used with a battery set that has voltage similar to Your camera requirements (let's say 1-1.5V difference). If You have power source that has significantly higher voltage (like 12V aku), then You need step-down converter. To avoid energy loss (low efficiency) and overheating simple regulator sometimes. BTW, when I experimented with 10W solar panel (PV panel), I used DC step-down converter. My camera charger had 12V input and the panel could give peak voltage of 17-21 V. So I really needed that converter.

To the travel part of the topic: 3 batteries for E-M10 II should last few days. In summer it may be both 4 days or even 1 week. But it really depends what and how often You shoot. It can be even the weather during the trip that reduce your photo count by half. Otherwise, You may visit a special place where You would make extra hundreds of photo. You have to "calibrate" Your needs in the field. The golden rule is when You know that for any reason You need more power (special place, special activity), take 1 more spare. That's all.

Maybe one more caveit: on trekking trips (like in my case) one virtually doesn't use flash. while photographing in interiors that could be game changer for battery demand, unless You have fast lens for low light conditions. In my case, I use flash only in special places: old fortifications, tourist-adapted/historical mines, small friends/family meetings etc. Mostly when no-flash photo gives bad results.

Regards,

-J.

P.S. If You want to see that Karakorum trek, well... I don't have a web page or gallery, but a friend of mine, who was actually one of the leaders of our team does have. He was using E-M1 II. So no off-topic at all in this forum Below there's a link to his pictures:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPbFaAyNtgele7VI0OOL6W5k27Awz0Tuiyq30d9Z_k2iJqeVplbq246tlb0ny8a1A?key=OUJvLUdQUVJKQndGcVN3eUM1OHNHWmxPRnFQLXJ3

Thanks, I will take a look.  I figured you saw Mt Everest also!

I dont use flash either.  I'd rather boost the ISO to 3200.  I find that flash makes the image "unnatural" looking.  Maybe I need to adjust WB with it- but it's also a battery drain and I just dont mess with it.

I have variable voltage regulators on both converters.  I usually set them to 7.5, that seems to be pretty close to what an Olympus BLS battery would give.  You are right about AA batteries- I do have lots of Eneloops NiMH batteries but that power source gets heavy pretty quickly since I can use up to 10 (it has to be an even number)!

Len_Gee wrote:

Total of 6 should be enough.

I have 6 of the same for one of my other cameras but I find that having so many makes it difficult to keep track of them.  I want to use them all about the same amount, therefore I want to know if I'm using one or two of them much more than I'm using the others.

OutsideTheMatrix wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

Getting back to solar charging, the way I do this is with an Anker Powerport 21w solar panel to USB, and to always carry a USB camera battery charger. Then cycle between 2 or 3 batteries so I always have a charged battery in the camera, while another is charging. Add in a slim 10,000mah power bank for when it gets dark, and then you have weeks, or months of continual portable battery power.

Nice! My 3 BLS batteries sounds ideal then. I have 6 batteries of the same type for other cameras and I find that gets confusing because I cant keep track of them and whether or not I'm using some batteries more than others. Having 3 of the same type makes it much easier to keep track.

A lot of folk number their batteries with a label printer or gold pen or something.  Doesn't seem to affect resell value either.  A camera with 3 batteries on ebay is always more attractive than a camera with one, even if they've got writing on them.

brentbrent wrote:

HRC2016 wrote:

Another thing to consider: when/if you resell your gear: do you think you'll break even on the batteries and chargers?

I consider the return on the investment for all of my gear.

Photography gear is an expense, not an investment. I don't expect to break even on any of it, though there is a chance that a couple lenses I purchased used could be sold for close to the same price I paid.

An OEM battery for the G9 is $60. A compatible aftermarket battery can be had for $13, so buying a couple of those per camera is a negligible expense, and it would be silly to worry about whether that small expenditure could be recovered when the camera is put up for sale years down the road.

Neither I nor the vast majority of those who buy aftermarket batteries have suffered any dire consequences from using them. Since you don't buy extra batteries, you wouldn't know.

Fully agree, although my experience with 3rd party batteries is a mixed bag. No problem so far (a few years out) such as leaking, warping, catching fire... On the other hand, I find their specified charge capacity to be over-optimistic to say the least. Yet, at the cost of several 3rd party vs a single OEM battery, it's worth having a couple of those as spares but I always carry an extra OEM battery as well, so a 2+2 setup that has never failed me yet.

OutsideTheMatrix wrote:

Are three batteries enough?

I'm a three-battery person, not just for cameras but also for ham radios.  One on the device, one in the bag, and one in the charger.