Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

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Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?
2

Where I am, all residents are under a shelter in place due to Covid-19.

Years ago I registered my company as an LLC and elected to be treated as a S corp. Due to that, every quarter I submit payroll taxes for my self and employees.

Because I pay payroll taxes on my wages, I deduced that even though I own the business, that I am still eligible to file for unemployment!

I looked up info, and confirmed that is the case in my State.

There are some positives in going through all of this. I am having to deal with new things that I have never had to deal with before. Also I am having to learn new systems that I have never had to use before.

I am just adding tools to my toolbox so to speak! Which will make me an even better business owner.

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Brook

Michael Fryd
Michael Fryd Forum Pro • Posts: 12,918
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?
3

I haven't looked into this in years.  But the last time I looked, as an employee and owner of a Sub-S, it is extremely difficult to collect unemployment related to your salary from the Sub-S.

The primary issue was that unemployment compensation is for those who are involuntarily laid off.  You cannot collect if you were the person who made the choice to terminate your employment.

As a business owner, you are the decision maker.  For the vast majority of scenarios,  you are the person who made the decision to lay yourself off.  As you are the person who makes the decision, you are ineligible to collect.

For instance, suppose there is a pandemic and your sales drop to zero.   You have the choice as to lay yourself off, or for the business to borrow money to continue your salary.   If you decide to stop your paycheck, that's a decision you have made.

Similarly, if you dissolve the company, or the business files for bankruptcy, these are also decisions on your part, and therefore you are not eligible to collect.

As I recall, about the only way to collect is if a third party forced the company into involuntary bankruptcy.  If the company was dissolved, or the court ordered you to stop your salary, then you did not make the decision, and you could collect.

Again, please don't rely on this.  It's been a long time since I looked into this, and my memory may be faulty, and/or the laws may have changed.

====

Of course, we are currently in unusual times.  Many states and the Federal government are creating special rules and programs in response to economic issues surrounding the Covid-19 pandemic.  It's possible that some of these rules may allow you to collect.

It's also possible that the Feds will pass a stimulus package that allows you to borrow funds to keep your small business going.  Some of the proposals seem to suggest that the loans may be forgiven if the loan is used to pay salary, rent, or utilities.
I strongly suggest that you talk to an expert in your state to find out the general rules for your state, and if there are any Covid-19 related programs that you qualify for.

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OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?
2

Here in Dallas Texas, businesses did not have the option to stay open. By city ordinance we are not allowed to leave our home. All non essential businesses or ordered closed by Law. When I went to the site to file for unemployment, it has a "COVID-19" selection option listed in the "Reason" drop down box.

So I went through and answered all the various questions.. I will update the thread with the outcome.

Also, the new Stimulus Package appears to increase unemployment benefits plus adds a new program to help the "gig economy". People who are not employees of a company (1099 contractors) and don't pay payroll taxes, and not covered by unemployment insurance.. This may be a good thing for all the Photographers here who are affected but did not setup there own Company that they are employed by.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/25/politics/stimulus-package-details-coronavirus/index.html

"Historic boost for unemployment benefits"

"In an unprecedented expansion of unemployment insurance, the federal government would give jobless workers an extra $600 a week for four months on top of their state benefits, which range from $200 to $550 a week, on average, depending on the state."

"In addition, lawmakers want to add up to 13 weeks of extended benefits, which would be fully covered by the federal government. Currently, state unemployment checks last up to between 12 weeks and 28 weeks, depending on the state."

"Plus, the deal calls for a new pandemic unemployment assistance program, which would provide jobless benefits to those who are unemployed, partially unemployed or unable to work because of the virus and don't qualify for traditional benefits. This includes independent contractors and the self-employed, who typically don't qualify for such assistance, and to gig economy workers, who aren't eligible in many states. These benefits would mirror what's available in an individual's state."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/25/politics/stimulus-package-details-coronavirus/index.html

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Brook

OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?
1

Since the USD money is not backed gold, the government can just print an unlimited amount of it. This stimulus package shows just that! But what will this large amount of paper money do to inflation?

So based on my understanding of what they are ready to give a family of 5 that is unable to work due to Covid 19 is...

(calculations deduced from https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/25/politics/stimulus-package-details-coronavirus/index.html)

$3900 in a 1 time stimulus check.

  • $1200 for mom.
  • $1200 for dad.
  • $500 for child 1.
  • $500 for child 2.
  • $500 for child 3.

Plus $9200 per month ($2300 per week) in unemployment benefits.

  • $550 per week, State unemployment for Dad.
  • $600 per week, New 4 month Federal unemployment benefit for Dad.
  • $550 per week, State unemployment for Mom.
  • $600 per week, New 4 month Federal unemployment benefit for Mom.

So that is a total of $13,100 possible income that 1 family could receive the 1st month, then $9200 per month for 3 months after that, then $4,400 for the remainder of the state unemployment windows..

Jesus Christ! Did I do those number correct?

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Brook

AZBlue
AZBlue Senior Member • Posts: 2,869
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

I am likely doing the same. I am a W-2 employee of my S-corp and pay payroll taxes. In Arizona, business owners are allowed to lay themselves off and file unemployment claims. It varies by state, and with COVID-19 the rules may have been relaxed in those states with stricter requirements.

Be aware, however, that doing so will likely increase your SUI withholding rate once you have unemployment claims against your company.

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OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

AZBlue wrote:

Be aware, however, that doing so will likely increase your SUI withholding rate once you have unemployment claims against your company.

Thanks for mentioning that!   That hadn't crossed my mind.

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Brook

OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

Just wanted to update the thread. My unemployment application was approved in less than 24 hours. Wow that was fast!

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Brook

Jeff Greenberg
Jeff Greenberg Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?
1

What about self-employed sole proprietors in US?
As a stock shooter with home office, I still see licensing income
from agencies, but as one specializing in travel & culture, I am
making no new images, which shall affect future income...
Insights from those who filled out forms appreciated.

Here is one FAQ response:
Q: I'm self-employed and didn't previously qualify for unemployment. Am I eligible now?Yes. This bill creates a new program, called Pandemic Unemployment Assistance, that extends benefits to gig workers, contractors and others who wouldn't otherwise qualify for unemployment compensation but cannot work due to the coronavirus emergency. You'll get the $600 per week, plus half the average unemployment benefit in your state.

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OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

Jeff Greenberg wrote:

What about self-employed sole proprietors in US?
As a stock shooter with home office, I still see licensing income
from agencies, but as one specializing in travel & culture, I am
making no new images, which shall affect future income...
Insights from those who filled out forms appreciated.

Here is one FAQ response:
Q: I'm self-employed and didn't previously qualify for unemployment. Am I eligible now?Yes. This bill creates a new program, called Pandemic Unemployment Assistance, that extends benefits to gig workers, contractors and others who wouldn't otherwise qualify for unemployment compensation but cannot work due to the coronavirus emergency. You'll get the $600 per week, plus half the average unemployment benefit in your state.

I think the info that I posted, as well as you regarding the "gig workers" is the most immediate answer.  But this new Pandemic Unemployment policy is a brand new thing..  We currently don't know how to apply for, where to apply for it, how do they validate the info, etc.. More info will be coming out soon...  Just keep a breast of all the changes and deduce what benefit(s) you will be able to use.

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Brook

OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

UPDATE:

Dallas County's current stay-at-home order will be extended until May 20, said Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/dallas-county-disaster-declaration-extended-to-may-20/287-2ec3c130-6884-44ae-a352-06dd2ac783b6

So now, it's not a if I will be closed for 3 months. It is a yes I will be closed for at least 3 months, and now the maybe shifts to 6 months!

I have been really successful in stopping the bleeding of cash for this month. But one expense that I was hoping I could have lowered a lot more was my commercial lease. Unfortunate, my landlord still wanted April's payment, but did extend a 27% deferment. Which I am assuming he will want to collect on at some point. So I cut the April lease check, but now I am thinking about next month, and the month after that, and the month after that...

It looks like the writing is on the wall folks.  It may be time to start moving on an exit strategy for now, Then reevaluate the economics in about a year to see about reopening.

Some people may think that they should take out loans to be able to keep their business open. But the loan could be just be drawing out the inevitable. It's easy to become hooked on the cash infusions and always looking for more. But remeber just be cause a business is open, doesn't mean it is profitable.  It could be similar to putting air in a tire with a slow leak.

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Brook

Photomonkey Senior Member • Posts: 2,741
Apply for the PPP

Bionic963 wrote:

Where I am, all residents are under a shelter in place due to Covid-19.

Years ago I registered my company as an LLC and elected to be treated as a S corp. Due to that, every quarter I submit payroll taxes for my self and employees.

Because I pay payroll taxes on my wages, I deduced that even though I own the business, that I am still eligible to file for unemployment!

I looked up info, and confirmed that is the case in my State.

There are some positives in going through all of this. I am having to deal with new things that I have never had to deal with before. Also I am having to learn new systems that I have never had to use before.

I am just adding tools to my toolbox so to speak! Which will make me an even better business owner.

As an S Corp owner you qualify if you have W-2 earnings. Proof odf annual income from last year is needed. Call your local bank.

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Jeff Greenberg
Jeff Greenberg Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: Apply for the PPP

Photomonkey wrote:

As an S Corp owner you qualify if you have W-2 earnings. Proof odf annual income from last year is needed. Call your local bank.

=====

If one is sole proprietor receiving IRS form 1099's
what must one prove? to qualify for what?
Are capital gains 2019 vs. 2020 in play...?
Thanks in advance.

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shoot first, apologize as needed, move on...

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OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Apply for the PPP

Photomonkey wrote:

Bionic963 wrote:

Where I am, all residents are under a shelter in place due to Covid-19.

Years ago I registered my company as an LLC and elected to be treated as a S corp. Due to that, every quarter I submit payroll taxes for my self and employees.

Because I pay payroll taxes on my wages, I deduced that even though I own the business, that I am still eligible to file for unemployment!

I looked up info, and confirmed that is the case in my State.

There are some positives in going through all of this. I am having to deal with new things that I have never had to deal with before. Also I am having to learn new systems that I have never had to use before.

I am just adding tools to my toolbox so to speak! Which will make me an even better business owner.

As an S Corp owner you qualify if you have W-2 earnings. Proof odf annual income from last year is needed. Call your local bank.

Qualify for what, Unemployment?

I already know I qualify for that. Further down in the thread I even posted have fast I had received the confirmation that I was approved.

Or are you speaking about 1 of the other diffrent bail out packages that my business is available for, if I decided I would like to try to weather the storm..

I think I would qualify for all types of loans and the ppp. But I think as a business owner, you have to evaluate if one should take the money.

Remember the saying "All money, ain't good money". Just because I decide to take aid packages and loans to keep my business open, does not mean that my customers will immediately return, and my business will return to profitability. So I need to try to do some forecasting and perhaps the data will show that it would be best to fold the business, and perhaps re-enter the market when the data show a more favorable projections.

It is very hard to look at your business in a non emotional way and make these tuff decisions based on forecasting that's strictly based on historical data and trends. But during this unprecedented situation it is even more important to not make quick knee jerk emotional decisions...

On a positive note..

This could be a setup for a major win for me in the future.

I have been paying a retail commercial lease for 14 years. Perhaps if I do close, then decide to reopen in 6 months to a year from now, I buy a commercial property instead of lease it. With the down turn of the economy I might be able to find a really good deal on a commercial property to buy!

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Brook

OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Apply for the PPP

Jeff Greenberg wrote:

Photomonkey wrote:

As an S Corp owner you qualify if you have W-2 earnings. Proof odf annual income from last year is needed. Call your local bank.

=====

If one is sole proprietor receiving IRS form 1099's
what must one prove? to qualify for what?
Are capital gains 2019 vs. 2020 in play...?
Thanks in advance.

I still have not seen any guidance yet for how 1099'ers are suppose to file for the new "gig workers" unemployment insurance.  Also I have not received any info about the extra $600 per week that the fed is adding to people that qualify for the regular state unemployment program.

This stuff is all so new, I am sure they are scrambling to put systems in place to facilitate all these new changes. We have to just wait for more quidance.

What ever I find out, I will post here.

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Brook

Photomonkey Senior Member • Posts: 2,741
Re: Apply for the PPP

Bionic963 wrote:

Photomonkey wrote:

Bionic963 wrote:

Where I am, all residents are under a shelter in place due to Covid-19.

Years ago I registered my company as an LLC and elected to be treated as a S corp. Due to that, every quarter I submit payroll taxes for my self and employees.

Because I pay payroll taxes on my wages, I deduced that even though I own the business, that I am still eligible to file for unemployment!

I looked up info, and confirmed that is the case in my State.

There are some positives in going through all of this. I am having to deal with new things that I have never had to deal with before. Also I am having to learn new systems that I have never had to use before.

I am just adding tools to my toolbox so to speak! Which will make me an even better business owner.

As an S Corp owner you qualify if you have W-2 earnings. Proof odf annual income from last year is needed. Call your local bank.

Qualify for what, Unemployment?

I already know I qualify for that. Further down in the thread I even posted have fast I had received the confirmation that I was approved.

Then you are good so far as that goes. I spoke to my accountant and I found out that I don't qualify for the tax credits if I get the PPP.

Or are you speaking about 1 of the other diffrent bail out packages that my business is available for, if I decided I would like to try to weather the storm..

If you don't get take the PPP  you most likely will qualify for other tax credits when filing for taxes. OTOH your income will be minimal and so will your taxes.

I think I would qualify for all types of loans and the ppp. But I think as a business owner, you have to evaluate if one should take the money.

Ask the SBA but most likely you don't. The PPP is a crisis loan to a business impacted by the shutdown of everything. A bank won't give you a business loan because of economic conditions and your likely poor cash flow.

The government is startlingly good at making it difficult to get more than one source of relief during any sort of disaster. You may qualify for food stamps a may many of us because of the fact of zero income.

Most of the other benefits are pauses on financial obligations that actually may be worse if you take them. Some lenders are saying they will be asking for balloon payments at the end of the forbearance period.

Remember the saying "All money, ain't good money". Just because I decide to take aid packages and loans to keep my business open, does not mean that my customers will immediately return, and my business will return to profitability.

True, but you will not be deeper in debt trying to "tuff it out" while your neighbors got by with the aid.

So I need to try to do some forecasting and perhaps the data will show that it would be best to fold the business, and perhaps re-enter the market when the data show a more favorable projections.

It is very hard to look at your business in a non emotional way and make these tuff decisions based on forecasting that's strictly based on historical data and trends. But during this unprecedented situation it is even more important to not make quick knee jerk emotional decisions...

True again. I am taking the money and I will play things by ear. I expect a slow recovery in the consumer sector as job losses will take. along time to recover from. Many small businesses will close regardless of the assistance. As I am a commercial photographer I am still getting calls for work when this is over. Retail portraiture and weddings has been a difficult row to hoe for 10 years and it will not get better.

On a positive note..

This could be a setup for a major win for me in the future.

I have been paying a retail commercial lease for 14 years. Perhaps if I do close, then decide to reopen in 6 months to a year from now, I buy a commercial property instead of lease it. With the down turn of the economy I might be able to find a really good deal on a commercial property to buy!

Good luck. Commercial space may be a bargain in the future but only because business is so poor renters are unavailable.

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Jeff Greenberg
Jeff Greenberg Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
self-employed

From this morning's Miami Herald:
(might apply to other US states, too...?)

Can contractors and the self-employed receive Florida’s unemployment benefits?

Contractors who received 1099 tax forms and self-employed workers are generally not entitled to state unemployment compensation in Florida. But the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program, part of the federal stimulus package, opens up benefits to contractors, the self employed and other gig workers who wouldn’t generally benefit under Florida’s system. The federal program calls for those workers to get $600 a week, plus half of the average unemployment benefit in Florida.

How do I apply for unemployment benefits?

You can apply online at connect.myflorida.com. Here’s a guide to using the site.

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pclarktx New Member • Posts: 22
Re: Apply for the PPP

Bionic963 wrote:

Photomonkey wrote:

Bionic963 wrote:

Where I am, all residents are under a shelter in place due to Covid-19.

Years ago I registered my company as an LLC and elected to be treated as a S corp. Due to that, every quarter I submit payroll taxes for my self and employees.

Because I pay payroll taxes on my wages, I deduced that even though I own the business, that I am still eligible to file for unemployment!

I looked up info, and confirmed that is the case in my State.

There are some positives in going through all of this. I am having to deal with new things that I have never had to deal with before. Also I am having to learn new systems that I have never had to use before.

I am just adding tools to my toolbox so to speak! Which will make me an even better business owner.

As an S Corp owner you qualify if you have W-2 earnings. Proof odf annual income from last year is needed. Call your local bank.

Qualify for what, Unemployment?

I already know I qualify for that. Further down in the thread I even posted have fast I had received the confirmation that I was approved.

Or are you speaking about 1 of the other diffrent bail out packages that my business is available for, if I decided I would like to try to weather the storm..

I think I would qualify for all types of loans and the ppp. But I think as a business owner, you have to evaluate if one should take the money.

Remember the saying "All money, ain't good money". Just because I decide to take aid packages and loans to keep my business open, does not mean that my customers will immediately return, and my business will return to profitability. So I need to try to do some forecasting and perhaps the data will show that it would be best to fold the business, and perhaps re-enter the market when the data show a more favorable projections.

It is very hard to look at your business in a non emotional way and make these tuff decisions based on forecasting that's strictly based on historical data and trends. But during this unprecedented situation it is even more important to not make quick knee jerk emotional decisions...

On a positive note..

This could be a setup for a major win for me in the future.

I have been paying a retail commercial lease for 14 years. Perhaps if I do close, then decide to reopen in 6 months to a year from now, I buy a commercial property instead of lease it. With the down turn of the economy I might be able to find a really good deal on a commercial property to buy!

Brook,

I'm curious.  Do you have a background that you could just fold and get back into the job market quickly if you stopped your photography business?  I have an IT background but if I were out a year or two I don't know how easily I could hop back in and then also I would be competing with people that have been in the whole time.  I could probably get something but it would take a while and not for the same amount of money I was making when I got out.

Just curious if you thought that you would be able to find income that would replace your photography quicker than business would come back got photography?

Brian20 New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

Hi Bionic963

As I in the UK and work for myself as like most photographers do!

Like you, I have been working!

Finding the lockdown a good time to do some jobs that need to be dun or doing research into how to make me stand out on the social media platform!

Keep busy and safe!

B

OP Bionic963 Contributing Member • Posts: 663
Re: Apply for the PPP

pclarktx wrote:

Bionic963 wrote:

Photomonkey wrote:

Bionic963 wrote:

Where I am, all residents are under a shelter in place due to Covid-19.

Years ago I registered my company as an LLC and elected to be treated as a S corp. Due to that, every quarter I submit payroll taxes for my self and employees.

Because I pay payroll taxes on my wages, I deduced that even though I own the business, that I am still eligible to file for unemployment!

I looked up info, and confirmed that is the case in my State.

There are some positives in going through all of this. I am having to deal with new things that I have never had to deal with before. Also I am having to learn new systems that I have never had to use before.

I am just adding tools to my toolbox so to speak! Which will make me an even better business owner.

As an S Corp owner you qualify if you have W-2 earnings. Proof odf annual income from last year is needed. Call your local bank.

Qualify for what, Unemployment?

I already know I qualify for that. Further down in the thread I even posted have fast I had received the confirmation that I was approved.

Or are you speaking about 1 of the other diffrent bail out packages that my business is available for, if I decided I would like to try to weather the storm..

I think I would qualify for all types of loans and the ppp. But I think as a business owner, you have to evaluate if one should take the money.

Remember the saying "All money, ain't good money". Just because I decide to take aid packages and loans to keep my business open, does not mean that my customers will immediately return, and my business will return to profitability. So I need to try to do some forecasting and perhaps the data will show that it would be best to fold the business, and perhaps re-enter the market when the data show a more favorable projections.

It is very hard to look at your business in a non emotional way and make these tuff decisions based on forecasting that's strictly based on historical data and trends. But during this unprecedented situation it is even more important to not make quick knee jerk emotional decisions...

On a positive note..

This could be a setup for a major win for me in the future.

I have been paying a retail commercial lease for 14 years. Perhaps if I do close, then decide to reopen in 6 months to a year from now, I buy a commercial property instead of lease it. With the down turn of the economy I might be able to find a really good deal on a commercial property to buy!

Brook,

I'm curious. Do you have a background that you could just fold and get back into the job market quickly if you stopped your photography business? I have an IT background but if I were out a year or two I don't know how easily I could hop back in and then also I would be competing with people that have been in the whole time. I could probably get something but it would take a while and not for the same amount of money I was making when I got out.

Just curious if you thought that you would be able to find income that would replace your photography quicker than business would come back got photography?

My last corporate job where as I was employed by someone else's company was back in 2003 and I did IT. So if I decide to close my business the USA government has extended a very gracious unemployment benefit due to the shutdown.

Did you see the post I made in the thread regarding the numbers for a family of 5 could qualify for.

So that benefit would buy me quite a bit of time. My monthly expenses are relatively low. I have a couple of paid off cars, and my house is paid off.. So I personally could live comfortably off of about $3500 per month.. If I really had to buckle down and cancel my yard guy, cancel my pest control guy, cancel tru-green, start washing my cars myself, cancel the cleaning the lady, watch what I spend on food, stop buying so much stuff on Amazon, no vacation, etc... I maybe could live off less than $2900 per month.

So I have some options...

Just need the shelter in place to be lifted and things to start moving again so I can see what my best short term plan is.

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Brook

Johann Kruger Senior Member • Posts: 1,338
Re: Are you filing Unemployment for Covid-19 Shelter-In-Place?

There's plenty of jobs available.
Unemployment only lasts a short term.

It will take at least 4 years for the world to get back to normal.

Unemployment will run out way before then.

People will have to accept available jobs to make ends meet.

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