With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
astirusty Senior Member • Posts: 1,188
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

astirusty wrote:

Can you imagine a pro saying: Sorry I got new NiKanOy ZM11 and it locked up. Give about 5-minutes to do a factory reset and re-load of my settings; then we can continue the Wedding. Make that 10-minutes, with the last firmware update, the menu system changed, and I can't find factory reset.

Surely anyone who has not first mastered use and control of their equipment before taking on a paid job does not score high on a scale of 1 to 10 as a pro

You mastered use and control of your equipment, firmware update comes out which makes changes to layout and options (which happened early on with Z7), how long do you think it will take to re-master the use and control of equipment?

 astirusty's gear list:astirusty's gear list
Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F2.8 Nikon Z 70-200 F2.8 VR +2 more
tommiejeep
tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 7,350
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

Not Len,  but for a specific shoot, an hour .   For everything possible with the camera,  longer.   A quick way would be to try shooting as normal for the assignment and see what has changed then react accordingly to the new.  Might need to change some of your custom settings, maybe not.    If changes in metering, ISO settings, AWB, or AF, I will probably spend time seeing what they do so might spend a day .

To fully understand the impact of all possible changes, longer, but there are some things I rarely/never use so would look into those as I know I will need.

Lots of time during Lockdown so spent a couple of days shooting just to get a better feel for many combinations with Z6 with latest FW.   I have done that with all of my Nikons.

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Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
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astirusty Senior Member • Posts: 1,188
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

jfriend00 wrote:

astirusty wrote:

jfriend00 wrote:

astirusty wrote:

Menu system / controls needs to evolve, made easier to use.

Firmware needs to mature. On two occasions, Z7 would not allow selection of menu function, until a factory reset was done.

Those last two are general usability and bugs, neither of which has to do with being a "pro" body or not. Those should be fixed regardless.

My point is pros are not going to go for a camera with a still evolving menu system, whereby they miss shots, become distracted, or waste time digging and fiddling around due menu changes.

Same with a camera with a flaky operating system or OS for a new line of cameras which hasn't proven itself to be reliable.

Can you imagine a pro saying: Sorry I got new NiKanOy ZM11 and it locked up. Give about 5-minutes to do a factory reset and re-load of my settings; then we can continue the Wedding. Make that 10-minutes, with the last firmware update, the menu system changed, and I can't find factory reset.

My point is that you don't need a Z8 to improve a menu system (if it even needs fixing) or fix a bug that occasionally causes a lockup. You need to just fix your bugs or usability in the current product. No need for a new hardware rev just to fix software issues.

Sure fix bugs in Z7.  Improve menu system in Z7.  But for Pro use, Z8 should not require bug fixes, significant as locked-up or hung.  Nor should Z8 need improvements to menu system, where layout changes or settings move to different section or sub-section.

Nowhere anywhere in this forum are you seeing significant numbers of people saying that they can't use the Z7 for professional assignments because the menus are junk

I never said the Z7's menus are junk (or similar).

or the camera locks up all the time. You've apparently developed that opinion,

from experience.  Early on Z7's menu system layout changed.

Believe it was previous firmware update where my Z7 had two lock-ups requiring factory resets and re-entering user selections.  No problems with current firmware version.  Which gets back to my point, for Z8 to be Professional level of camera it needs to reliable.

Menus are user interface so everyone has their own opinion about UI (some more informed and reasoned than others) and, in particular, with these kinds of menus, everyone will have their own "pet" feature they wish was easier to get to. None of that means it's not a pro camera or isn't already being used by lots of pros.

Completely different matter.  You are talking about personal taste and UI being user friendly.  I am talking about UI being stable, not changing with firmware updates, for Pro use.  From day one of Z8 to last day of Z8 to be supported, the Menu System (or UI) should not under go changes to overall structure (or layout) to where Pro has to re-learn UI.

 astirusty's gear list:astirusty's gear list
Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F2.8 Nikon Z 70-200 F2.8 VR +2 more
astirusty Senior Member • Posts: 1,188
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

tommiejeep wrote:

Not Len, but for a specific shoot, an hour

To fully understand the impact of all possible changes, longer, but there are some things I rarely/never use so would look into those as I know I will need.

You got to what I experienced early on with Z7.  Before a specific shoot, it didn't take very long to work through firmware changes to menu system for shoot as planned.

Issue was shoot setting changed right before shoot was about to start.  Forcing me to go through changed menu system looking for settings which needed to be modified ASAP.

To be upfront about this.  I am not a Professional photographer, the shoot I was doing was for free.  But it involved high ranking Military Officers, who had fixed schedules for the day's meeting.

Leading back to why I say a Professional camera's Menu system (or UI) can not undergo major layout changes with firmware updates, which requires Professional to re-learn UI.

 astirusty's gear list:astirusty's gear list
Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon Z 24-70mm F2.8 Nikon Z 70-200 F2.8 VR +2 more
tommiejeep
tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 7,350
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?
3

No way I would install FW update "just before" a shoot as I would not use a new camera for first time.

These days, no Events  no Sports.  Even club/Society meetings are conducted by smartphone apps.  I do not shoot local politics.

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Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,853
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?
2

astirusty wrote:

jfriend00 wrote:

astirusty wrote:

jfriend00 wrote:

astirusty wrote:

Menu system / controls needs to evolve, made easier to use.

Firmware needs to mature. On two occasions, Z7 would not allow selection of menu function, until a factory reset was done.

Those last two are general usability and bugs, neither of which has to do with being a "pro" body or not. Those should be fixed regardless.

My point is pros are not going to go for a camera with a still evolving menu system, whereby they miss shots, become distracted, or waste time digging and fiddling around due menu changes.

Same with a camera with a flaky operating system or OS for a new line of cameras which hasn't proven itself to be reliable.

Can you imagine a pro saying: Sorry I got new NiKanOy ZM11 and it locked up. Give about 5-minutes to do a factory reset and re-load of my settings; then we can continue the Wedding. Make that 10-minutes, with the last firmware update, the menu system changed, and I can't find factory reset.

My point is that you don't need a Z8 to improve a menu system (if it even needs fixing) or fix a bug that occasionally causes a lockup. You need to just fix your bugs or usability in the current product. No need for a new hardware rev just to fix software issues.

Sure fix bugs in Z7. Improve menu system in Z7. But for Pro use, Z8 should not require bug fixes, significant as locked-up or hung. Nor should Z8 need improvements to menu system, where layout changes or settings move to different section or sub-section.

Nowhere anywhere in this forum are you seeing significant numbers of people saying that they can't use the Z7 for professional assignments because the menus are junk

I never said the Z7's menus are junk (or similar).

or the camera locks up all the time. You've apparently developed that opinion,

from experience. Early on Z7's menu system layout changed.

Believe it was previous firmware update where my Z7 had two lock-ups requiring factory resets and re-entering user selections. No problems with current firmware version. Which gets back to my point, for Z8 to be Professional level of camera it needs to reliable.

Menus are user interface so everyone has their own opinion about UI (some more informed and reasoned than others) and, in particular, with these kinds of menus, everyone will have their own "pet" feature they wish was easier to get to. None of that means it's not a pro camera or isn't already being used by lots of pros.

Completely different matter. You are talking about personal taste and UI being user friendly. I am talking about UI being stable, not changing with firmware updates, for Pro use. From day one of Z8 to last day of Z8 to be supported, the Menu System (or UI) should not under go changes to overall structure (or layout) to where Pro has to re-learn UI.

So, apparently you now say that the menus are fine and the menu changes are done and the freezes are no longer, yet you insist a new camera like a Z8 is required for a pro.  Never mind - no point in discussing further with you.

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John

Tim Gallo
Tim Gallo Junior Member • Posts: 29
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

"where does the Z7 fit now?"

it did not fit anywhere from the beginning. Z6 made all sense. Z7 without dual card slots was out of the picture as a main camera (from a pro stand-point)... and made no sense price-wise/spec-wise to make it sub-camera.

 Tim Gallo's gear list:Tim Gallo's gear list
Nikon D850
Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,087
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?
1

Tim Gallo wrote:

"where does the Z7 fit now?"

it did not fit anywhere from the beginning. Z6 made all sense. Z7 without dual card slots was out of the picture as a main camera (from a pro stand-point)... and made no sense price-wise/spec-wise to make it sub-camera.

You are entitled to your point of view - with which I expect many will disagree.

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Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than anything else.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +28 more
Tim Gallo
Tim Gallo Junior Member • Posts: 29
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Tim Gallo wrote:

"where does the Z7 fit now?"

it did not fit anywhere from the beginning. Z6 made all sense. Z7 without dual card slots was out of the picture as a main camera (from a pro stand-point)... and made no sense price-wise/spec-wise to make it sub-camera.

You are entitled to your point of view - with which I expect many will disagree.

Yeap, pretty sure people will eat me alive lol. I probably should add that as a d850 owner that is what I think. If you are not using it for work than maybe it does not much matter... I have yet to see xqd fail, but I heard rumors and that is enough

Anyway, this is what I told Nikon guys and this is what I think till this point. I will definitely buy Z7s or Z6s, but if there is a successor to D850 i will take the successor, maybe it will be like d780 - video able in live view?

 Tim Gallo's gear list:Tim Gallo's gear list
Nikon D850
FingerPainter Veteran Member • Posts: 9,245
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?
1

Tim Gallo wrote:

"where does the Z7 fit now?"

it did not fit anywhere from the beginning. Z6 made all sense. Z7 without dual card slots was out of the picture as a main camera (from a pro stand-point)... and made no sense price-wise/spec-wise to make it sub-camera.

The Z7 is clearly not intended to be a pro, MILC version of the D850. It is packaged as an enthusiast camera. Think of it as a higher-res MILC version of a D750. That's what its specs and its name indicate it is.

sirhawkeye64 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,445
Re: With rumors of a Z8, where does the Z7 fit in?

Jeff Self wrote:

When the Z7 debuted, everyone thought it was a mirrorless version of the D850. But now that there are rumors of the Z8, where does the Z7 fit now? After all, the D850 is a professional camera. Best jack of all trades dSLR there is. A rumored Z8 seems to me that it would be the equivalent of a D850. So what's the purpose of the Z7 then? I see the purpose of the Z6. It's basically equivalent to the D750/D780. Maybe the Z8 will be the equivalent of the D5/D6? Then maybe there will be no Z9? Provided the Z8 isn't the D5/D6 equivalent, what's the point of the Z7?

I'm a happy owner of a D850, D500 and a Z6. Hoping to have mirrorless versions of my D850 and D500 in the next couple of years.

Well, the Z7 was the mirrorless equivalent of your D850.  The Z7s will be an updated version.  I'm sure at some point a ML version of the D500 will come out.

The Z8/Z9 are probably aimed at the pro shooter, who perhaps doesn't want to spend $5000 on a camera body.  So I'm going to guess the Z8/Z9 will likely be in the realm of $3900 or something of that nature--similar to the R5 and A7R IV especially if they offer 60-61MP sensors.

 sirhawkeye64's gear list:sirhawkeye64's gear list
Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Fujifilm X-T30 GoPro Hero8 Black Fujifilm XF 23mm F2 R WR +13 more
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