The EOS R5 is the mirrorless 5D mkV (and the R6 is the 6DIII)

Started Feb 16, 2020 | Discussions
TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 9,908
Re: The EOS R5 is the mirrorless 5D mkV (and the R6 is the 6DIII)
2

GatanoII wrote:

The EOS R5 is the mirrorless version of 5D mkV (it's coming I guess), Canon did gave us a reasonable hint with its name, it's the most detailed part of the development announcement

So the price point will be almost the same, so don't be fooled by the astonishing 8k , the 12fps and 20fps with a 45mp sensor with IBIS, Canon has a new fab that allows them to make new sensors and the new Digic processor that are much more advanced than the ones we had on our previous generations cameras, Canon want to sell mirrorless cameras and make money in a shrinking market, the only way to continue to be the number one (DSLR and mirorless combined) is to be the number one even with FF mirrorless and this camera is going to play this tough game, the 1DXIII is the best DSLR ever made (if you don't care about extremely high resolution) why the R5 shouldn't aim to be the best mirrorless ever made? (until the R5s and the real flagship R1 comes out)

We already know from the rumor mill that proved to be right about the R5, the 24-105 , the 100-500 and the extendes (and the 850D) that also an R6 is coming soon with a "lame" 20MP, but also very fast at 12fps and 20fps and the price will be very interesting, just as it's the 6DII (and the future 6DIII).

"We already know"? It's a rumour mill, we don't "know" those things at all.

All we know is:

  • new sensor and processor
  • 8K video (whoopee)
  • IBIS (actual whoopee)
  • "up to" 20 fps with silent shutter (usually a bogus number that doesn't apply to CAF)
  • "up to" 12 fps with mechanical shutter (usually a bogus number that doesn't apply to CAF)
  • two card slots
  • seamless image uploads to Canon's new cloud service

Canon is going to use it's best arsenal to conquer the FF mirrorles camera market (while still making money also with DSLR ), they already are doing very well with the EOS M, despite being criticized , they know what the APSC user base want and they sell more than other crop mirrorless cameras ,so they also know what a FF user want, but they didn't had the technology ready (trusty but "recycled" sensors and CPU in the R and RP), now they have new sensors and number crunching horse power with the R5 (and R6) and are going to give us this "dream" camera (competition will try to do the same), but not at 5000$+ as most naysayers are telling us, it will be the mirrorless 5D so it will be at the same price point, unless Canon did everything right for the HW in the camera and will do all wrong in the marketing department (I don't think so).

BTW it's clear the naming scheme of the new mirrorless camera is using the R instead of the D.

And the speculation continues... best to wait, honestly.

cheers

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rrc1967 Senior Member • Posts: 1,900
Re: The EOS R5 is the mirrorless 5D mkV (and the R6 is the 6DIII)

TN Args wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

The EOS R5 is the mirrorless version of 5D mkV (it's coming I guess), Canon did gave us a reasonable hint with its name, it's the most detailed part of the development announcement

So the price point will be almost the same, so don't be fooled by the astonishing 8k , the 12fps and 20fps with a 45mp sensor with IBIS, Canon has a new fab that allows them to make new sensors and the new Digic processor that are much more advanced than the ones we had on our previous generations cameras, Canon want to sell mirrorless cameras and make money in a shrinking market, the only way to continue to be the number one (DSLR and mirorless combined) is to be the number one even with FF mirrorless and this camera is going to play this tough game, the 1DXIII is the best DSLR ever made (if you don't care about extremely high resolution) why the R5 shouldn't aim to be the best mirrorless ever made? (until the R5s and the real flagship R1 comes out)

We already know from the rumor mill that proved to be right about the R5, the 24-105 , the 100-500 and the extendes (and the 850D) that also an R6 is coming soon with a "lame" 20MP, but also very fast at 12fps and 20fps and the price will be very interesting, just as it's the 6DII (and the future 6DIII).

"We already know"? It's a rumour mill, we don't "know" those things at all.

All we know is:

  • new sensor and processor
  • 8K video (whoopee)
  • IBIS (actual whoopee)
  • "up to" 20 fps with silent shutter (usually a bogus number that doesn't apply to CAF)

so the 1DX Mark II and M6 mark II and the 90D all have bogus numbers?

  • "up to" 12 fps with mechanical shutter (usually a bogus number that doesn't apply to CAF)

see above. and btw, ALL manufacturers state their FPS as "up to"

Noogy
Noogy Veteran Member • Posts: 3,392
Re: The EOS R5 is the mirrorless 5D mkV (and the R6 is the 6DIII)

David Hull wrote:

RDM5546 wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

RDM5546 wrote:

Do you know about the new Canon fab? Is it TSMC in Taiwan. TSMC has a stacked CMOS fab process for making sensors very similar to that of Sony. Using this stack CMOS fab which has been working well since 2016 would give them enough time to quickly come to market with parity in sensor manufacturing as Sony. Sony was the pioneer that proved the value of stack CMOS assembly in achieving very high sensor scan rates with wide dynamic range, Do you have a link for Canon's use of a new fab?

I know they have a new fab , but I can't remember where I did read it, but in the announcement it's clear they have something that's new and advanced, Canon words:

"Canon’s EOS R5, the first of the next generation of full-frame mirrorless cameras planned for EOS R System, will include a newly developed CMOS sensor. The new sensor will enable enhanced features ..."

I always assumed they would develop their own stacked CMOS fab but it is far from easy to so. A lot of the know how is available in Japan but it would take time and of course lots of money to do this. However, stacked CMOS fabs are useful for many new kinds of devices other than high end mirror-less cameras so if they built their own fab there would be plenty of use for it.

No need to develop their own fab, there are fabs for hire.

Yep, Intel, Samsung, TSMC fabs are not operating at full capacities. Those options make it cheaper to outsource.

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DuxX
DuxX Contributing Member • Posts: 900
According to specs...
1

R5 is much above 5D mkIV

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OP GatanoII Regular Member • Posts: 460
Re: According to specs...

DuxX wrote:

R5 is much above 5D mkIV

also 5DmkV will be much above 5DmkIV

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DuxX
DuxX Contributing Member • Posts: 900
Re: According to specs...
1

GatanoII wrote:

also 5DmkV will be much above 5DmkIV

Are you sure that there will be 5D mkV?

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RDM5546
RDM5546 Senior Member • Posts: 2,323
Re: The EOS R5 is the mirrorless 5D mkV (and the R6 is the 6DIII)

TN Args wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

The EOS R5 is the mirrorless version of 5D mkV (it's coming I guess), Canon did gave us a reasonable hint with its name, it's the most detailed part of the development announcement

So the price point will be almost the same, so don't be fooled by the astonishing 8k , the 12fps and 20fps with a 45mp sensor with IBIS, Canon has a new fab that allows them to make new sensors and the new Digic processor that are much more advanced than the ones we had on our previous generations cameras, Canon want to sell mirrorless cameras and make money in a shrinking market, the only way to continue to be the number one (DSLR and mirorless combined) is to be the number one even with FF mirrorless and this camera is going to play this tough game, the 1DXIII is the best DSLR ever made (if you don't care about extremely high resolution) why the R5 shouldn't aim to be the best mirrorless ever made? (until the R5s and the real flagship R1 comes out)

We already know from the rumor mill that proved to be right about the R5, the 24-105 , the 100-500 and the extendes (and the 850D) that also an R6 is coming soon with a "lame" 20MP, but also very fast at 12fps and 20fps and the price will be very interesting, just as it's the 6DII (and the future 6DIII).

"We already know"? It's a rumour mill, we don't "know" those things at all.

All we know is:

  • new sensor and processor
  • 8K video (whoopee)
  • IBIS (actual whoopee)
  • "up to" 20 fps with silent shutter (usually a bogus number that doesn't apply to CAF)
  • "up to" 12 fps with mechanical shutter (usually a bogus number that doesn't apply to CAF)

While we do not know the shutter speeds with CAF we also do not know how much rolling shutter artifacts are shooting action images in the new 45mp image sensor using silent shutter. Different sensor designs have different shutter artifact limitations when using the electronic silent shutter. The Sony A9 rolling shutter noise is reduced by it's sensor readout design and technology in contrast to earlier image sensor designs.

The silent shutter in the R5 may have less image distortion from the rolling shutter. Let us hope that it does whatever the A9 does to reduce this artifact for rapidly moving images. We will not know until the R5 is shipping and in the hands of real users whether the silent shutter design has been improved of that of the EOS R.

  • two card slots
  • seamless image uploads to Canon's new cloud service

Canon is going to use it's best arsenal to conquer the FF mirrorles camera market (while still making money also with DSLR ), they already are doing very well with the EOS M, despite being criticized , they know what the APSC user base want and they sell more than other crop mirrorless cameras ,so they also know what a FF user want, but they didn't had the technology ready (trusty but "recycled" sensors and CPU in the R and RP), now they have new sensors and number crunching horse power with the R5 (and R6) and are going to give us this "dream" camera (competition will try to do the same), but not at 5000$+ as most naysayers are telling us, it will be the mirrorless 5D so it will be at the same price point, unless Canon did everything right for the HW in the camera and will do all wrong in the marketing department (I don't think so).

BTW it's clear the naming scheme of the new mirrorless camera is using the R instead of the D.

And the speculation continues... best to wait, honestly.

cheers

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OP GatanoII Regular Member • Posts: 460
Re: According to specs...

DuxX wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

also 5DmkV will be much above 5DmkIV

Are you sure that there will be 5D mkV?

If the R5 is so much better than anyone can expect maybe Canon will push all 5D customers to buy the R5 once they upgrade ... but Canon will still want to be the number one for the people that prefer the optical viewfinder over anything, so at some point there will be the 5DmkV.

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rrc1967 Senior Member • Posts: 1,900
Re: According to specs...
1

GatanoII wrote:

DuxX wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

also 5DmkV will be much above 5DmkIV

Are you sure that there will be 5D mkV?

If the R5 is so much better than anyone can expect maybe Canon will push all 5D customers to buy the R5 once they upgrade ... but Canon will still want to be the number one for the people that prefer the optical viewfinder over anything, so at some point there will be the 5DmkV.

I'm not sure we'll ever see a 5D Mark V.

All the people that wanted video would move to the R5 without question.  The R5 just with the EVF alone is reason enough for that.  Studio shooters with eyeAF? I doubt many would stick with the 5D.  Same with wedding,etc - you're left with the people that just have problems with EVF.  Canon wants everyone to move over .. gradually or quickly as they progress with their craft.

It's a huge user base to sway to move - Canon with the FD mount came out with excellent AF and amazing lens technology: IS and USM to sway the FD users.  Sure some got left behind because they refused to go.. but the majority of them moved.

You're going to see the same thing happen here.

OP GatanoII Regular Member • Posts: 460
Re: According to specs...
1

rrc1967 wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

DuxX wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

also 5DmkV will be much above 5DmkIV

Are you sure that there will be 5D mkV?

If the R5 is so much better than anyone can expect maybe Canon will push all 5D customers to buy the R5 once they upgrade ... but Canon will still want to be the number one for the people that prefer the optical viewfinder over anything, so at some point there will be the 5DmkV.

I'm not sure we'll ever see a 5D Mark V.

All the people that wanted video would move to the R5 without question. The R5 just with the EVF alone is reason enough for that. Studio shooters with eyeAF? I doubt many would stick with the 5D. Same with wedding,etc - you're left with the people that just have problems with EVF. Canon wants everyone to move over .. gradually or quickly as they progress with their craft.

It's a huge user base to sway to move - Canon with the FD mount came out with excellent AF and amazing lens technology: IS and USM to sway the FD users. Sure some got left behind because they refused to go.. but the majority of them moved.

You're going to see the same thing happen here.

that's an option ... but as Canon did come with the Eos M6II and the 90D at the same time, I don't see them to change this habit very soon, this time the R5 will come out before the 5DMkV, the next R5II will instead probably not have a sibling D5mkVI, so I agree with your point, but it's not happening just today, Canon will give us at least another generation of new DSLR including a new 5D.

BTW I'll switch to mirrorless as soon as Canon gives us something that is almost better on any aspect over any previous DSLR, probably this R5 will be the one (or better the R5s if this comes out before September), but I'm sure not anyone is ready to give up the optical viewfinder, I'm ready to sacrifice the viewfinder as the AF will be more precise and this is enough for me, for some others it will not be enough yet, and I bet Canon wants also this kind of customers.

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ZX11
ZX11 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,429
Re: According to specs...

GatanoII wrote:

rrc1967 wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

DuxX wrote:

GatanoII wrote:

also 5DmkV will be much above 5DmkIV

Are you sure that there will be 5D mkV?

If the R5 is so much better than anyone can expect maybe Canon will push all 5D customers to buy the R5 once they upgrade ... but Canon will still want to be the number one for the people that prefer the optical viewfinder over anything, so at some point there will be the 5DmkV.

I'm not sure we'll ever see a 5D Mark V.

All the people that wanted video would move to the R5 without question. The R5 just with the EVF alone is reason enough for that. Studio shooters with eyeAF? I doubt many would stick with the 5D. Same with wedding,etc - you're left with the people that just have problems with EVF. Canon wants everyone to move over .. gradually or quickly as they progress with their craft.

It's a huge user base to sway to move - Canon with the FD mount came out with excellent AF and amazing lens technology: IS and USM to sway the FD users. Sure some got left behind because they refused to go.. but the majority of them moved.

You're going to see the same thing happen here.

that's an option ... but as Canon did come with the Eos M6II and the 90D at the same time, I don't see them to change this habit very soon, this time the R5 will come out before the 5DMkV, the next R5II will instead probably not have a sibling D5mkVI, so I agree with your point, but it's not happening just today, Canon will give us at least another generation of new DSLR including a new 5D.

BTW I'll switch to mirrorless as soon as Canon gives us something that is almost better on any aspect over any previous DSLR, probably this R5 will be the one (or better the R5s if this comes out before September), but I'm sure not anyone is ready to give up the optical viewfinder, I'm ready to sacrifice the viewfinder as the AF will be more precise and this is enough for me, for some others it will not be enough yet, and I bet Canon wants also this kind of customers.

It makes sense that they will make a 5DmkV.  EVF isn't that good yet.  Once they eliminate lag, then all people will be willing to use a LCD to frame instead of glass.  Right now people like OVF as much as others like EVF.

Didn't they invent autopilot eye tracking because the photographer couldn't track that well with a laggy EVF?  The solution wasn't to make EVF real time fast like an OVF so the photographer could track better,... but to pass off the subject tracking task to the computer.

The DSLR does a good job of giving you the best of EVF and OVF since it can do live view tracking (same EVF data and autopilot tracking) while a mirrorless camera just can't do any form of OVF.

I didn't care what viewfinder was on the camera but I have recently ran into issues tracking running animals with EVF.  OVF is looking better and better to me.  5DmkV and an EF 100-400 as a solution?

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Viriato Junior Member • Posts: 41
Re: According to specs...

I admit, I suffer from serious GAS, and I don't care.

The problem is that that everybody is cheering for Canon, people wish that finally present something equivalent to the 1st Canon 5D, something that may make you say: wowow, incredible, a clear step in to the future. Not just some more resolution.

Canon is so good in building anticipation, the future is here, and then always releases something that comes to short.

I love my EOS R, but...

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 30,261
Just like the 5D2 was
1

DuxX wrote:

R5 is much above 5D4

just like the 5D2 was “much above “ the 5D.

canon is doing like the 5D2 again. 5D2 was the first dslr with HD recording and was bought by many for that . They are the first to offer 8k and are pushing the industry again

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 30,261
Minimal

GatanoII wrote:

DuxX wrote:

R5 is much above 5D mkIV

also 5DmkV will be much above 5DmkIV

If a 5D5 ever comes out, it will be no sooner than in 2 years and will be a minimal upgrade to coax users to the current format which is R.

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