Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
1

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Which comes with a huge weight and cost disadvantage.

really, a 1 lbs body and a 1.5 lbs all around lens is huge?

$850 for a body and $899 for a great L is huge?

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

I prefer primes over zooms for the image quality. It is limiting,

hmm, limit

but thats part of the fun.

the fun

Plus the M50 or M6II with the 22mm is insanely light.

it doesn't fit in a jean pocket

btw - I carry my 2.5 lbs all arounder in one hand with wrist strap for hours

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

I'm glad you're fine with the weight and size. But I would say for most people, that would be considered far from a pocketable travel setup.

I would say you can't fit m in a jeans pocket

I fit my 2.5 lbs RP + RF 24-105 F4L in jacket pocket

I'm glad that works for you! Too expensive and heavy for me. And you're only talking about one lens. If you wanted to carry a kit with you, the weight differences would become even larger, and the price gap would become larger.

when I carry a small bag, I put my T7i + 55-250 STM beside my RP + RF 24-105 F4L

that represents 24 - 400 FOV

Also, I can fit the M50 and 22mm in a jean pocket. Maybe your jeans are just tighter than mine! But your jacket looser than mine lol. And yes the difference is huge. The RP kit compared to an M kit would be a few times as expensive, and a few times as heavy. So yea, that's a huge difference!

now my 24-400 fov in favor of your 35 fov is what I call HUGE

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. I'm not comparing the 22mm to your 2 camera, 2 lens setup.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,918
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Which comes with a huge weight and cost disadvantage.

really, a 1 lbs body and a 1.5 lbs all around lens is huge?

$850 for a body and $899 for a great L is huge?

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

I prefer primes over zooms for the image quality. It is limiting,

hmm, limit

but thats part of the fun.

the fun

Plus the M50 or M6II with the 22mm is insanely light.

it doesn't fit in a jean pocket

btw - I carry my 2.5 lbs all arounder in one hand with wrist strap for hours

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

I'm glad you're fine with the weight and size. But I would say for most people, that would be considered far from a pocketable travel setup.

I would say you can't fit m in a jeans pocket

I fit my 2.5 lbs RP + RF 24-105 F4L in jacket pocket

I'm glad that works for you! Too expensive and heavy for me. And you're only talking about one lens. If you wanted to carry a kit with you, the weight differences would become even larger, and the price gap would become larger.

when I carry a small bag, I put my T7i + 55-250 STM beside my RP + RF 24-105 F4L

that represents 24 - 400 FOV

Also, I can fit the M50 and 22mm in a jean pocket. Maybe your jeans are just tighter than mine! But your jacket looser than mine lol. And yes the difference is huge. The RP kit compared to an M kit would be a few times as expensive, and a few times as heavy. So yea, that's a huge difference!

now my 24-400 fov in favor of your 35 fov is what I call HUGE

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. I'm not comparing the 22mm to your 2 camera, 2 lens setup.

you spoke about "most" above

"most" carry an iPhone over trying to fit an m50/22 or m6II/22 in a jean's pocket

 MAC's gear list:MAC's gear list
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rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
1

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Which comes with a huge weight and cost disadvantage.

really, a 1 lbs body and a 1.5 lbs all around lens is huge?

$850 for a body and $899 for a great L is huge?

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

I prefer primes over zooms for the image quality. It is limiting,

hmm, limit

but thats part of the fun.

the fun

Plus the M50 or M6II with the 22mm is insanely light.

it doesn't fit in a jean pocket

btw - I carry my 2.5 lbs all arounder in one hand with wrist strap for hours

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

I'm glad you're fine with the weight and size. But I would say for most people, that would be considered far from a pocketable travel setup.

I would say you can't fit m in a jeans pocket

I fit my 2.5 lbs RP + RF 24-105 F4L in jacket pocket

I'm glad that works for you! Too expensive and heavy for me. And you're only talking about one lens. If you wanted to carry a kit with you, the weight differences would become even larger, and the price gap would become larger.

when I carry a small bag, I put my T7i + 55-250 STM beside my RP + RF 24-105 F4L

that represents 24 - 400 FOV

Also, I can fit the M50 and 22mm in a jean pocket. Maybe your jeans are just tighter than mine! But your jacket looser than mine lol. And yes the difference is huge. The RP kit compared to an M kit would be a few times as expensive, and a few times as heavy. So yea, that's a huge difference!

now my 24-400 fov in favor of your 35 fov is what I call HUGE

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. I'm not comparing the 22mm to your 2 camera, 2 lens setup.

you spoke about "most" above

"most" carry an iPhone over trying to fit an m50/22 or m6II/22 in a jean's pocket

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
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plantdoc Veteran Member • Posts: 3,628
Re: What about hobby photographers?
2

I also noticed the issue with a more shallow DOF when taking family pics. + - overall.

greg

plantdoc Veteran Member • Posts: 3,628
Re: What about hobby photographers?
4

I hope Canon doesn't forget about hobby enthusiasts who want very good IQ and decent video but don't have thousands to spend on gear that can be overspec for their needs and wallets. Compact and moderate weight are also increasing concerns but not major compromises to push FF. otherwise more users will just defect to phones.

greg

MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,918
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Which comes with a huge weight and cost disadvantage.

really, a 1 lbs body and a 1.5 lbs all around lens is huge?

$850 for a body and $899 for a great L is huge?

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

I prefer primes over zooms for the image quality. It is limiting,

hmm, limit

but thats part of the fun.

the fun

Plus the M50 or M6II with the 22mm is insanely light.

it doesn't fit in a jean pocket

btw - I carry my 2.5 lbs all arounder in one hand with wrist strap for hours

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

I'm glad you're fine with the weight and size. But I would say for most people, that would be considered far from a pocketable travel setup.

I would say you can't fit m in a jeans pocket

I fit my 2.5 lbs RP + RF 24-105 F4L in jacket pocket

I'm glad that works for you! Too expensive and heavy for me. And you're only talking about one lens. If you wanted to carry a kit with you, the weight differences would become even larger, and the price gap would become larger.

when I carry a small bag, I put my T7i + 55-250 STM beside my RP + RF 24-105 F4L

that represents 24 - 400 FOV

Also, I can fit the M50 and 22mm in a jean pocket. Maybe your jeans are just tighter than mine! But your jacket looser than mine lol. And yes the difference is huge. The RP kit compared to an M kit would be a few times as expensive, and a few times as heavy. So yea, that's a huge difference!

now my 24-400 fov in favor of your 35 fov is what I call HUGE

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. I'm not comparing the 22mm to your 2 camera, 2 lens setup.

you spoke about "most" above

"most" carry an iPhone over trying to fit an m50/22 or m6II/22 in a jean's pocket

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

for what it is - a 1 LBS FF for $850 and the best ever 1.5 Lbs 24-105 L for $899 with 5 stop IS, nano focus, and a control ring for EC - most photographers wouldn't consider this great all arounder huge in price nor huge in size nor huge in weight

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 16,245
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

I'm not in the M system. I'm waiting to see what happens with the R6. We might have to give the 5D4 back. So I'd give my wife the R + 24-105, sell the 35 1.8 and prob use my 24-85, plus a couple of primes.

-- hide signature --

Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/

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nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,117
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
2

LMOE wrote:

nnowak wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

MAC wrote:

the f7.1 lenses they are releasing suggest crop cameras are done

Entry-level APS-C: M50 (with lens), $599.99

Entry-level FF: RP (body only), $999.00

(Current prices on Canon USA website.)

There have been a lot of rumors that an even cheaper RF mount body is in the works. This new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 will likely only be $150 to $200 in a kit. Put those two together and you will have a full frame kit with a street price easily under $1000.

So, are you suggesting that they abandon the ~$500-$600 camera market? That is a significant volume market.

They might not hit $500 right away, but $750 full frame is definitely within reason.  Just stripping the EVF from the RP would pretty much get you there if you look at the price differential between the original M5 and M6

sosh
sosh Regular Member • Posts: 159
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

nnowak wrote:

LMOE wrote:

nnowak wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

MAC wrote:

the f7.1 lenses they are releasing suggest crop cameras are done

Entry-level APS-C: M50 (with lens), $599.99

Entry-level FF: RP (body only), $999.00

(Current prices on Canon USA website.)

There have been a lot of rumors that an even cheaper RF mount body is in the works. This new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 will likely only be $150 to $200 in a kit. Put those two together and you will have a full frame kit with a street price easily under $1000.

So, are you suggesting that they abandon the ~$500-$600 camera market? That is a significant volume market.

They might not hit $500 right away, but $750 full frame is definitely within reason. Just stripping the EVF from the RP would pretty much get you there if you look at the price differential between the original M5 and M6

Exactly my thoughts. IF Canon will move RP or some future beginner's R  camera to $800 range it will be a breakthrough. Thinking about more modern RP w/o EVF, basic controls etc. - i.e. R-style Rebel. IF it will be reality - I'll be in, with such price tag and a set of very good manual lenses)

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Ed Rizk Veteran Member • Posts: 3,898
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Which comes with a huge weight and cost disadvantage.

really, a 1 lbs body and a 1.5 lbs all around lens is huge?

$850 for a body and $899 for a great L is huge?

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

I prefer primes over zooms for the image quality. It is limiting,

hmm, limit

but thats part of the fun.

the fun

Plus the M50 or M6II with the 22mm is insanely light.

it doesn't fit in a jean pocket

btw - I carry my 2.5 lbs all arounder in one hand with wrist strap for hours

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

I'm glad you're fine with the weight and size. But I would say for most people, that would be considered far from a pocketable travel setup.

I would say you can't fit m in a jeans pocket

I fit my 2.5 lbs RP + RF 24-105 F4L in jacket pocket

I'm glad that works for you! Too expensive and heavy for me. And you're only talking about one lens. If you wanted to carry a kit with you, the weight differences would become even larger, and the price gap would become larger.

when I carry a small bag, I put my T7i + 55-250 STM beside my RP + RF 24-105 F4L

that represents 24 - 400 FOV

Also, I can fit the M50 and 22mm in a jean pocket. Maybe your jeans are just tighter than mine! But your jacket looser than mine lol. And yes the difference is huge. The RP kit compared to an M kit would be a few times as expensive, and a few times as heavy. So yea, that's a huge difference!

now my 24-400 fov in favor of your 35 fov is what I call HUGE

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. I'm not comparing the 22mm to your 2 camera, 2 lens setup.

you spoke about "most" above

"most" carry an iPhone over trying to fit an m50/22 or m6II/22 in a jean's pocket

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

for what it is - a 1 LBS FF for $850 and the best ever 1.5 Lbs 24-105 L for $899 with 5 stop IS, nano focus, and a control ring for EC - most photographers wouldn't consider this great all arounder huge in price nor huge in size nor huge in weight

Both sides of this discussion make sense to me.

I took a trip recently where I had to travel light, because it was a plane trip where I couldn't check baggage.  I took the R with the RF 24-105 and the RF 35.   The combination was easy enough to carry.   It was a trip to see friend, so there was not a lot of opportunity to take landscapes or wildlife.  There was no grand architecture.   The combination covered everything I needed for that kind of trip.

On a more scenic trip with more time to shoot, it would have been hard to take a versatile selection of lenses with the R.  With the M, you can take a full set of lenses with you everywhere without difficulty or aggravation.   An 11-22, an 18-150, and a couple of prime lenses would fit in a couple of big jacket pockets or a small bag light enough to carry all day and small enough to take on an airplane without checking baggage.  You have to make a ton of compromises in focal lengths and some compromises in IQ in low light with that kit, compared to a similar selection with the R.  But you can take any kind of picture anywhere you go.

-- hide signature --

Ed Rizk

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Microprism Contributing Member • Posts: 654
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

My understanding is that IBIS requires the R electronics to allow both it and the lens IS to communicate. I don’t think the M mount can do this and neither can EF lenses. Only RF lenses have the required electronics. IBIS will still be functional on its own without the added lens IS, but I doubt that Canon will put IBIS in a camera that uses lenses that are not 100% compatible.

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Microprism Contributing Member • Posts: 654
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

MAC wrote:

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

for what it is - a 1 LBS FF for $850 and the best ever 1.5 Lbs 24-105 L for $899 with 5 stop IS, nano focus, and a control ring for EC - most photographers wouldn't consider this great all arounder huge in price nor huge in size nor huge in weight

Most photographers or most camera buyers? A lot of camera buyers want M50 size cameras.

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sosh
sosh Regular Member • Posts: 159
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

Microprism wrote:

MAC wrote:

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

for what it is - a 1 LBS FF for $850 and the best ever 1.5 Lbs 24-105 L for $899 with 5 stop IS, nano focus, and a control ring for EC - most photographers wouldn't consider this great all arounder huge in price nor huge in size nor huge in weight

Most photographers or most camera buyers? A lot of camera buyers want M50 size cameras.

Well, it depends on use cases. RP + some 28/35 is about the same size. Having M6 and 22 I understand the versatility of smallest) setup, however I'll don't mind to take RP and old good FD 28/2.8 any time, not much bigger. Just my POV.

Another case for me - I have damn great FD 100-300 5.6L ideally suited for slow tele tasks. It works very well with M6 and will do the same with any R, in this case weight is no question at all. Again, use case for me.

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Photato
Photato Senior Member • Posts: 2,703
Nope but a RM would

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

No signs of Canon investing much into the M System, nor reassuring official statements neither hence it is of a questionable future.
But Canon needs an APS-C system for sure and is of their best interest to make it compatible with the R mount, just like Nikon has now.
Enter the rumored RM, I guess the M is there to relate to the M series marketing wise.
The price of that new body is speculated to be under the RP, which is already a bare bones camera so it makes sense the lower cost is due to cropped sensor.
Canon made an extraordinary effort to bring the 32MP APS-C sensor to market and I think its long term plan with it was not for the M or DSLRs but the R mount.

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

RM with a 32MP APS-C sensor + built-in EVF. $849 Body Only, $1,000 with 15-45 Kit lens. To be released before the Tokyo Olympic Games.

So that is what I think is going to happen in relationship to M's future.
Personally, I'd stick with my M6II for a while and eventually switch to either Canon RM or a Panasonic FF.

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 3,790
Re: Nope but a RM would
4

Photato wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

No signs of Canon investing much into the M System, nor reassuring official statements neither hence it is of a questionable future.

To some degree i have to disagree with this.  I think the ef-m 32mm is a good lens. For Sony there's only the sigma 30mm option, at least Canon has a native option on top of that, and it is better than that sigma too.

I think the M6mkII is a camera a step above most of the ef-m lenses.  The M200 has even better AF than the M50.

The 3 latest released M products all surpass everything we have seen before.

What kind of signs are you looking for if you're ignoring these kind of improvements?

Of course the M system wasn't originally designed to replace ef-s, but the M6mkII has the AF to be a replacement. Why isn't this a sign Canon is investing in the M system?

But Canon needs an APS-C system for sure and is of their best interest to make it compatible with the R mount, just like Nikon has now.
Enter the rumored RM, I guess the M is there to relate to the M series marketing wise.
The price of that new body is speculated to be under the RP, which is already a bare bones camera so it makes sense the lower cost is due to cropped sensor.
Canon made an extraordinary effort to bring the 32MP APS-C sensor to market and I think its long term plan with it was not for the M or DSLRs but the R mount.

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

RM with a 32MP APS-C sensor + built-in EVF. $849 Body Only, $1,000 with 15-45 Kit lens. To be released before the Tokyo Olympic Games.

So that is what I think is going to happen in relationship to M's future.
Personally, I'd stick with my M6II for a while and eventually switch to either Canon RM or a Panasonic FF.

-- hide signature --

M for zooms, RF for primes

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,918
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

Ed Rizk wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Which comes with a huge weight and cost disadvantage.

really, a 1 lbs body and a 1.5 lbs all around lens is huge?

$850 for a body and $899 for a great L is huge?

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

I prefer primes over zooms for the image quality. It is limiting,

hmm, limit

but thats part of the fun.

the fun

Plus the M50 or M6II with the 22mm is insanely light.

it doesn't fit in a jean pocket

btw - I carry my 2.5 lbs all arounder in one hand with wrist strap for hours

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

I'm glad you're fine with the weight and size. But I would say for most people, that would be considered far from a pocketable travel setup.

I would say you can't fit m in a jeans pocket

I fit my 2.5 lbs RP + RF 24-105 F4L in jacket pocket

I'm glad that works for you! Too expensive and heavy for me. And you're only talking about one lens. If you wanted to carry a kit with you, the weight differences would become even larger, and the price gap would become larger.

when I carry a small bag, I put my T7i + 55-250 STM beside my RP + RF 24-105 F4L

that represents 24 - 400 FOV

Also, I can fit the M50 and 22mm in a jean pocket. Maybe your jeans are just tighter than mine! But your jacket looser than mine lol. And yes the difference is huge. The RP kit compared to an M kit would be a few times as expensive, and a few times as heavy. So yea, that's a huge difference!

now my 24-400 fov in favor of your 35 fov is what I call HUGE

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at. I'm not comparing the 22mm to your 2 camera, 2 lens setup.

you spoke about "most" above

"most" carry an iPhone over trying to fit an m50/22 or m6II/22 in a jean's pocket

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

for what it is - a 1 LBS FF for $850 and the best ever 1.5 Lbs 24-105 L for $899 with 5 stop IS, nano focus, and a control ring for EC - most photographers wouldn't consider this great all arounder huge in price nor huge in size nor huge in weight

Both sides of this discussion make sense to me.

with an m50/22 - what rick is saying - it doesn't make sense to me - this is ff equivalent of 35 f3.2 without IS and the older, noisier 24 mpxl sensor - I'd rather carry iPhone 11

I took a trip recently where I had to travel light, because it was a plane trip where I couldn't check baggage. I took the R with the RF 24-105 and the RF 35. The combination was easy enough to carry. It was a trip to see friend, so there was not a lot of opportunity to take landscapes or wildlife. There was no grand architecture. The combination covered everything I needed for that kind of trip.

great travel kit

On a more scenic trip with more time to shoot, it would have been hard to take a versatile selection of lenses with the R. With the M, you can take a full set of lenses with you everywhere without difficulty or aggravation. An 11-22, an 18-150, and a couple of prime lenses would fit in a couple of big jacket pockets or a small bag light enough to carry all day and small enough to take on an airplane without checking baggage.

if I get m, it would be if they release 32 mpxl m5ii with ibis - i'd use it with 11-22, 32, 56

but I'd still take my rp + rf 24-105 L

You have to make a ton of compromises in focal lengths and some compromises in IQ in low light with that kit, compared to a similar selection with the R. But you can take any kind of picture anywhere you go.

the m has no bright zooms - which is the issue

also the m6ii is nice with eye focus and snappy, but can't share flash and evf

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,918
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

Microprism wrote:

MAC wrote:

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

for what it is - a 1 LBS FF for $850 and the best ever 1.5 Lbs 24-105 L for $899 with 5 stop IS, nano focus, and a control ring for EC - most photographers wouldn't consider this great all arounder huge in price nor huge in size nor huge in weight

Most photographers or most camera buyers? A lot of camera buyers want M50 size cameras.

the former

just because it's smaller size doesn't mean most photographers want an m50 - particularly with new updated technology available

I will take an iPhone 11 over an m50 + 22 (which is the FF equivalent of 35 f3.2 without IS)

u get what you pay for

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MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,918
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

sosh wrote:

Microprism wrote:

MAC wrote:

I said most people wouldn't consider an RP with 24-105l to be a light setup. Had nothing to do with smartphones, or comparing the 22mm to your setup.

for what it is - a 1 LBS FF for $850 and the best ever 1.5 Lbs 24-105 L for $899 with 5 stop IS, nano focus, and a control ring for EC - most photographers wouldn't consider this great all arounder huge in price nor huge in size nor huge in weight

Most photographers or most camera buyers? A lot of camera buyers want M50 size cameras.

Well, it depends on use cases. RP + some 28/35 is about the same size. Having M6 and 22 I understand the versatility of smallest) setup, however I'll don't mind to take RP and old good FD 28/2.8 any time, not much bigger. Just my POV.

RP is small, even with my 24 mm IS or 50 mm

Another case for me - I have damn great FD 100-300 5.6L ideally suited for slow tele tasks. It works very well with M6 and will do the same with any R, in this case weight is no question at all. Again, use case for me.

the noise is less on RP which is important for these slow lenses

yes - to each their own on use cases

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justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,947
Re: Nope but a RM would
3

Photato wrote:

But Canon needs an APS-C system for sure and is of their best interest to make it compatible with the R mount, just like Nikon has now.

Through 2021, Nikon will have a whopping three Z-DX lenses. I don't think that's a good model to follow.

I doubt that Canon is interested in making new RF-S lenses.

I don't see the point in buying an APS-C camera, only to use FF lenses.

Photato
Photato Senior Member • Posts: 2,703
Re: Nope but a RM would

thunder storm wrote:

Photato wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

No signs of Canon investing much into the M System, nor reassuring official statements neither hence it is of a questionable future.

To some degree i have to disagree with this. I think the ef-m 32mm is a good lens. For Sony there's only the sigma 30mm option, at least Canon has a native option on top of that, and it is better than that sigma too.

Wow this is so wrong.
According to the B&H store there are 180 NATIVE Sony E crop lenses. From which 83 are prime.
You don't have to believe me just check the link.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=17912&fct=fct_lens-mount_3442%7csony-e-mount%2bfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%7caps-c-lenses&N=4196380428&

I think the M6mkII is a camera a step above most of the ef-m lenses. The M200 has even better AF than the M50.

The 3 latest released M products all surpass everything we have seen before.

What kind of signs are you looking for if you're ignoring these kind of improvements?

Of course the M system wasn't originally designed to replace ef-s, but the M6mkII has the AF to be a replacement. Why isn't this a sign Canon is investing in the M system?

Easy, that is just improved firmware for Digic8 chip, which is shared across all Canon models in Live View no just Ms.
Everything from the 2019 batch of M cameras has been recycled except the 32MP sensor which frankly was made to support any future camera regardless of mount. EF-S EF-M R-M
If Canon had already a plan to release an RM 32MP camera this year the hard work is done already, all they have to do is physically install the 32MP sensor in the RM body and minor adjustment to the firmware if it is going to be similar feature set as the M6II.

But Canon needs an APS-C system for sure and is of their best interest to make it compatible with the R mount, just like Nikon has now.
Enter the rumored RM, I guess the M is there to relate to the M series marketing wise.
The price of that new body is speculated to be under the RP, which is already a bare bones camera so it makes sense the lower cost is due to cropped sensor.
Canon made an extraordinary effort to bring the 32MP APS-C sensor to market and I think its long term plan with it was not for the M or DSLRs but the R mount.

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

RM with a 32MP APS-C sensor + built-in EVF. $849 Body Only, $1,000 with 15-45 Kit lens. To be released before the Tokyo Olympic Games.

So that is what I think is going to happen in relationship to M's future.
Personally, I'd stick with my M6II for a while and eventually switch to either Canon RM or a Panasonic FF.

The only argument consolidating any M series future I've seen is the appearance of the Sigma prime trio last year, but when you look at them, those lenses are nothing more than adapted lenses from the Sony E and m4/3 with just a firmware and the correct rear mount to make them M compatible.
I wouldn't be surprised if Canon was who invited Sigma and shared their protected/encrypted M lens code so Canon don't have to make more lenses to support their own dead end format. Canon doesn't care anymore (Sigma: you can eat from my soon to be expired mount)
The only true outlier was the 2018 release of the Canon 32mm, but c'mon, when you read any M camera reviews there is still this consensus about the M having a lacking lens catalog and are asking if Canon is going to finally bring APS-C to the R mount.

Canon said they are gonna put their resources on RF not EF. They never ratified their commitment to the M series during that press release which seriously need it.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/1040131653/canon-europe-confirms-its-focus-is-on-rf-not-ef-lenses-unless-the-market-demands-it

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