Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

Started 1 month ago | Discussions
007peter
007peter Forum Pro • Posts: 12,632
yes, stir me away from M43 → M but toward RP
2

My M43 journey has come to an end, I was going to back toward M with a M50 + Sigma 30/1.4, now I think it would be wiser to saved my money toward a Canon RP + Canon 35mm F/1.8 STM instead.

R lens library looks amazing, and upcoming R5/R6 spec looks stunning.  As more (R) camera body comes with IBIS, I think it's a much safer platform to invest in.  Kind of like the Good Old EF mount, I never lose money buying/selling Canon EF lens, and (R) is becoming popular unlike the sad Nikon Z mount or the Panasonic L mount that failed to take off.

 007peter's gear list:007peter's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF6
thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 3,704
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

justmeMN wrote:

nnowak wrote:

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market.

If that was Canon's plan, they wouldn't have bothered making a 32MP APS-C sensor.

I think Canon has more than one plan. Canon is just trying out to see what sells. I think the M6mkII is Canons test case to see if M is selling well enough to be a future system.

-- hide signature --

M for zooms, RF for primes

 thunder storm's gear list:thunder storm's gear list
Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS R Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Sigma 105mm F1.4 DG HSM Art Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Art +11 more
Ed Rizk Veteran Member • Posts: 3,892
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

No, but the new compact zoom really does.

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

I was expecting great things from the higher end R.  This one might just exceed expectations.

Still, it doesn't change my calculation on whether to go with an M for travel or an M overall, for that matter.  It only means that the best of the best gets better.  The miniature RF zoom does.  There are also some patents for RF pancake lenses.

What does an R travel kit look like in a year?

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

I'm not really itching to upgrade my R.   As far as my maximum IQ efforts go, I don't NEED anything.  I would get an interesting macro lens, like the TSE 135 or the 180 before upgrading the camera body.

My one area of dissatisfaction is traveling by plane or on foot.  I like to make quick trips and carry all my luggage on, sometimes.  I also like to Uber into places that are hard and expensive to park near.   That means either carrying a very limited setup or getting a smaller system.  But now, it could also mean just getting some smaller lenses.

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

It still looks good.  The M6ii is still going to be smaller with a selection of lenses.  But could the R lenses become small enough.  The size of the body doesn't matter so much, once you bring more than one or two lenses.   I do fine with the R and the 24-105 and the 35.  That covers the basics, but it doesn't do anything really interesting.

-- hide signature --

Ed Rizk

 Ed Rizk's gear list:Ed Rizk's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS R Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L Canon EF 24-70mm F4L IS USM Canon EF 100-400mm F4.5-5.6L IS II +4 more
Marco Nero
Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 6,463
CANON R5 brings the EOS R system into MATURITY
5

The new EOS R5 is exactly what Canon said they were creating. The IBIS and Dual Slots is what makes the R5 a camera worthy of risk (being new) for a Professional photographer. It now meets the expectations and the needs of those needing motivation to drop DSLR FF for Mirrorless FF. The announcement of the R5 finally pushed the R system into a MATURE Full Frame model. I've been waiting for this day although I expected it to happen about 11 months or so from now.

  • Newly designed CMOS sensor (likely 40MP)
  • In-camera image stabilization
  • 20fps continuous shooting (silent shutter)
  • 12ps continuous shooting (mechanical shutter)
  • 8K video capture
  • Twin card slots

.

EOS R5

.
The new RF 100-500mm lens coupled with the new RF 1.4x and RF 2x Extenders is a very big deal. This is the equivalent to the EF alternatives and the 100-400mm lens. By adding another 100mm to the lens to make it 500mm, and by adding two Extenders, the R System is a pretty serious program. There's really no excuse not to buy one. And with the new lens running up to 500mm plus Extenders, that makes the demand for an APS-C model of the EOS R considerably less.
.

RF 100-500mm - will benefit from IBIS since it's an f/4.5-7.1 lens instead of f/4.5-5.6

RF 1.4x Extender

RF 2x Extender

.
As I said last year, the R system is (was) still immature until an IBIS model with dual slots is released for professional use. We're finally there. Canon now have four EOS R models available for consumers:
.
* EOS R - Basic Model (immature)
* EOS RP - Lower Priced limited features.
* EOS Ra - Modified Sensor for Astrophotography
* EOS R5 - Pro-end model (mature model)
.
We also know Canon has experimented with a practical model containing an APS-C sensor but have allegedly claimed to have abandoned the idea. Could they return to this experiment? Perhaps. But I'd say that day is a long way off or they would have released an APS-C version with the R5. As I have stated before, Canon don't experiment with the market - unlike some other manufacturers. They don't like to waste time or assets without a very clear road-map ahead. But this new model will ensure that future EOS M models will likely have IBIS. The technology and even some of the design aspects will trickle down to their other product lines.
.
There's still no need or motivation for Canon to want to produce an APS-C version of the R.  Such a move is still in the realm of fantasy for pixel-peepers wanting to consolidate or wanting to use RF lenses that were mathematically designed to function with Full Frame sensors.  The EOS M6 II is Canon's first mature APS-C mirrorless camera and its reputation and respect by reviewers and owners will more than likely force Canon to reconsider the lens designs of future M lenses to ensure higher clarity and resolution.  Canon would be more likely to scrap all APS-C models and devote their manufacturing to just Full Frame rather than continue to make APS-C cameras.  Look at the price of the RP (which is very close to the price of the M6 II) to appreciate why that's more likely than continuing to make APS-C.  With the manufacturing cost leveling out, it may not really be in Canon's interest to keep making M cameras with the RP being capable of even more scale reduction.
.
It's a good day to be alive.  The R cameras finally have something for everyone.  Oddly enough, I can still get more zoom on an APS-C sensor with my 100-400mmL II lens with both extenders (1,803.2mm equiv) compared to a Full Frame R with the new 100-400mm + 2 extenders (1400mm).  But the new Full Frame alternative is very appealing regardless.

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Marco Nero.

 Marco Nero's gear list:Marco Nero's gear list
Canon PowerShot G1 X Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS M Canon EOS 60D Canon EOS 5D Mark III +17 more
thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 3,704
Re: CANON R5 brings the EOS R system into MATURITY

Marco Nero wrote:

The new EOS R5 is exactly what Canon said they were creating. The IBIS and Dual Slots is what makes the R5 a camera worthy of risk (being new) for a Professional photographer. It now meets the expectations and the needs of those needing motivation to drop DSLR FF for Mirrorless FF. The announcement of the R5 finally pushed the R system into a MATURE Full Frame model. I've been waiting for this day although I expected it to happen about 11 months or so from now.

  • Newly designed CMOS sensor (likely 40MP)

I didn't see this officially confirmed yet.

  • In-camera image stabilization
  • 20fps continuous shooting (silent shutter)

Will it AF and adjust exposure doing this? How much will it drop when shooting stopped down? Or will there be a setting to allow it to AF stopped down?

  • 12ps continuous shooting (mechanical shutter)

Will it AF and adjust exposure doing this? How much will it drop when shooting stopped down? Or will there be a setting to allow it to AF stopped down?

  • 8K video capture

Crops? Codecs?

  • Twin card slots

.

EOS R5

.
The new RF 100-500mm lens coupled with the new RF 1.4x and RF 2x Extenders is a very big deal. This is the equivalent to the EF alternatives and the 100-400mm lens. By adding another 100mm to the lens to make it 500mm, and by adding two Extenders, the R System is a pretty serious program. There's really no excuse not to buy one. And with the new lens running up to 500mm plus Extenders, that makes the demand for an APS-C model of the EOS R considerably less.
.

RF 100-500mm - will benefit from IBIS since it's an f/4.5-7.1 lens instead of f/4.5-5.6

RF 1.4x Extender

RF 2x Extender

.
As I said last year, the R system is (was) still immature until an IBIS model with dual slots is released for professional use. We're finally there. Canon now have four EOS R models available for consumers:
.
* EOS R - Basic Model (immature)
* EOS RP - Lower Priced limited features.
* EOS Ra - Modified Sensor for Astrophotography
* EOS R5 - Pro-end model (mature model)

I think we need more detail to determine if the R5 is the mature model.

.
We also know Canon has experimented with a practical model containing an APS-C sensor but have allegedly claimed to have abandoned the idea. Could they return to this experiment? Perhaps. But I'd say that day is a long way off or they would have released an APS-C version with the R5. As I have stated before, Canon don't experiment with the market - unlike some other manufacturers. They don't like to waste time or assets without a very clear road-map ahead. But this new model will ensure that future EOS M models will likely have IBIS. The technology and even some of the design aspects will trickle down to their other product lines.
.
There's still no need or motivation for Canon to want to produce an APS-C version of the R. Such a move is still in the realm of fantasy for pixel-peepers wanting to consolidate or wanting to use RF lenses that were mathematically designed to function with Full Frame sensors. The EOS M6 II is Canon's first mature APS-C mirrorless camera and its reputation and respect by reviewers and owners will more than likely force Canon to reconsider the lens designs of future M lenses to ensure higher clarity and resolution. Canon would be more likely to scrap all APS-C models and devote their manufacturing to just Full Frame rather than continue to make APS-C cameras. Look at the price of the RP (which is very close to the price of the M6 II) to appreciate why that's more likely than continuing to make APS-C. With the manufacturing cost leveling out, it may not really be in Canon's interest to keep making M cameras with the RP being capable of even more scale reduction.
.
It's a good day to be alive. The R cameras finally have something for everyone. Oddly enough, I can still get more zoom on an APS-C sensor with my 100-400mmL II lens with both extenders (1,803.2mm equiv) compared to a Full Frame R with the new 100-400mm + 2 extenders (1400mm). But the new Full Frame alternative is very appealing regardless.

-- hide signature --

M for zooms, RF for primes

 thunder storm's gear list:thunder storm's gear list
Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS R Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Sigma 105mm F1.4 DG HSM Art Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Art +11 more
MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,912
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

thunder storm wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

nnowak wrote:

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market.

If that was Canon's plan, they wouldn't have bothered making a 32MP APS-C sensor.

I think Canon has more than one plan. Canon is just trying out to see what sells. I think the M6mkII is Canons test case to see if M is selling well enough to be a future system.

there is little commitment

they threw m a bone with the 32

why would they do IBIS - for the siggy 56?  Nope

it is not looking good for m and m glass

iphones and FF in small bodies ahead

-- hide signature --

M for zooms, RF for primes

 MAC's gear list:MAC's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS Rebel T7i Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS RP +12 more
thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 3,704
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

MAC wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

nnowak wrote:

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market.

If that was Canon's plan, they wouldn't have bothered making a 32MP APS-C sensor.

I think Canon has more than one plan. Canon is just trying out to see what sells. I think the M6mkII is Canons test case to see if M is selling well enough to be a future system.

there is little commitment

they threw m a bone with the 32

why would they do IBIS - for the siggy 56? Nope

it is not looking good for m and m glass

iphones and FF in small bodies ahead

I would love to have IBIS on M. Even the 32mm and 22mm would certainly benefit from IBIS. And it might take some time before we will see an entry level RF camera with IBIS.

-- hide signature --

M for zooms, RF for primes

 thunder storm's gear list:thunder storm's gear list
Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS R Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Sigma 105mm F1.4 DG HSM Art Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Art +11 more
MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,912
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
2

thunder storm wrote:

MAC wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

nnowak wrote:

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market.

If that was Canon's plan, they wouldn't have bothered making a 32MP APS-C sensor.

I think Canon has more than one plan. Canon is just trying out to see what sells. I think the M6mkII is Canons test case to see if M is selling well enough to be a future system.

there is little commitment

they threw m a bone with the 32

why would they do IBIS - for the siggy 56? Nope

it is not looking good for m and m glass

iphones and FF in small bodies ahead

I would love to have IBIS on M. Even the 32mm and 22mm would certainly benefit from IBIS. And it might take some time before we will see an entry level RF camera with IBIS.

yeah, I would buy an m5II/m50 II with IBIS

post it, and I'll pre-order

will they do it?  wishful thinking

 MAC's gear list:MAC's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS Rebel T7i Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS RP +12 more
amidov New Member • Posts: 24
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

I'm gonna to buy m6m2 instead of eos m & m100 for travel, and change 5dm3 & 6dm2 on maybe eos r6, r5 will be overpriced for first two years.

IS in canon lens good enough.

 amidov's gear list:amidov's gear list
Canon 6D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS M100 Canon EOS M Panasonic GX850 +10 more
MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,912
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

nnowak wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

MAC wrote:

the f7.1 lenses they are releasing suggest crop cameras are done

Entry-level APS-C: M50 (with lens), $599.99

Entry-level FF: RP (body only), $999.00

(Current prices on Canon USA website.)

There have been a lot of rumors that an even cheaper RF mount body is in the works. This new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 will likely only be $150 to $200 in a kit. Put those two together and you will have a full frame kit with a street price easily under $1000.

and a few f2 pancakes and it is hard to justify m

 MAC's gear list:MAC's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS Rebel T7i Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS RP +12 more
MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,912
Re: CANON R5 brings the EOS R system into MATURITY

Marco Nero wrote:

The new EOS R5 is exactly what Canon said they were creating. The IBIS and Dual Slots is what makes the R5 a camera worthy of risk (being new) for a Professional photographer. It now meets the expectations and the needs of those needing motivation to drop DSLR FF for Mirrorless FF. The announcement of the R5 finally pushed the R system into a MATURE Full Frame model. I've been waiting for this day although I expected it to happen about 11 months or so from now.

  • Newly designed CMOS sensor (likely 40MP)
  • In-camera image stabilization
  • 20fps continuous shooting (silent shutter)
  • 12ps continuous shooting (mechanical shutter)
  • 8K video capture
  • Twin card slots

.

EOS R5

.
The new RF 100-500mm lens coupled with the new RF 1.4x and RF 2x Extenders is a very big deal. This is the equivalent to the EF alternatives and the 100-400mm lens. By adding another 100mm to the lens to make it 500mm, and by adding two Extenders, the R System is a pretty serious program.

f7.1 is not serious for some

There's really no excuse not to buy one.

price is an excuse

And with the new lens running up to 500mm plus Extenders, that makes the demand for an APS-C model of the EOS R considerably less.
.

RF 100-500mm - will benefit from IBIS since it's an f/4.5-7.1 lens instead of f/4.5-5.6

RF 1.4x Extender

RF 2x Extender

.
As I said last year, the R system is (was) still immature until an IBIS model with dual slots is released for professional use. We're finally there. Canon now have four EOS R models available for consumers:
.
* EOS R - Basic Model (immature)
* EOS RP - Lower Priced limited features.
* EOS Ra - Modified Sensor for Astrophotography
* EOS R5 - Pro-end model (mature model)
.
We also know Canon has experimented with a practical model containing an APS-C sensor but have allegedly claimed to have abandoned the idea. Could they return to this experiment? Perhaps. But I'd say that day is a long way off or they would have released an APS-C version with the R5. As I have stated before, Canon don't experiment with the market - unlike some other manufacturers. They don't like to waste time or assets without a very clear road-map ahead. But this new model will ensure that future EOS M models will likely have IBIS. The technology and even some of the design aspects will trickle down to their other product lines.
.
There's still no need or motivation for Canon to want to produce an APS-C version of the R. Such a move is still in the realm of fantasy for pixel-peepers wanting to consolidate or wanting to use RF lenses that were mathematically designed to function with Full Frame sensors. The EOS M6 II is Canon's first mature APS-C mirrorless camera and its reputation and respect by reviewers and owners will more than likely force Canon to reconsider the lens designs of future M lenses to ensure higher clarity and resolution. Canon would be more likely to scrap all APS-C models and devote their manufacturing to just Full Frame rather than continue to make APS-C cameras. Look at the price of the RP (which is very close to the price of the M6 II) to appreciate why that's more likely than continuing to make APS-C. With the manufacturing cost leveling out, it may not really be in Canon's interest to keep making M cameras with the RP being capable of even more scale reduction.

bingo

.
It's a good day to be alive. The R cameras finally have something for everyone. Oddly enough, I can still get more zoom on an APS-C sensor with my 100-400mmL II lens with both extenders (1,803.2mm equiv) compared to a Full Frame R with the new 100-400mm + 2 extenders (1400mm). But the new Full Frame alternative is very appealing regardless.

 MAC's gear list:MAC's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS Rebel T7i Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS RP +12 more
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 7,203
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
3

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day.  The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105. Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices. But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

-- hide signature --

As the length of a thread approaches 150, the probability that someone will make the obvious "it's not the camera, it's the photographer" remark approaches 1.
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile

 Alastair Norcross's gear list:Alastair Norcross's gear list
Canon G7 X II Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS M6 Canon EOS M6 II Canon PowerShot S100 +26 more
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 7,203
Re: CANON R5 brings the EOS R system into MATURITY
1

Marco Nero wrote:

The new EOS R5 is exactly what Canon said they were creating. The IBIS and Dual Slots is what makes the R5 a camera worthy of risk (being new) for a Professional photographer. It now meets the expectations and the needs of those needing motivation to drop DSLR FF for Mirrorless FF. The announcement of the R5 finally pushed the R system into a MATURE Full Frame model. I've been waiting for this day although I expected it to happen about 11 months or so from now.

  • Newly designed CMOS sensor (likely 40MP)
  • In-camera image stabilization
  • 20fps continuous shooting (silent shutter)
  • 12ps continuous shooting (mechanical shutter)
  • 8K video capture
  • Twin card slots

.

EOS R5

.
The new RF 100-500mm lens coupled with the new RF 1.4x and RF 2x Extenders is a very big deal. This is the equivalent to the EF alternatives and the 100-400mm lens. By adding another 100mm to the lens to make it 500mm, and by adding two Extenders, the R System is a pretty serious program. There's really no excuse not to buy one.

Other than not having a spare $3000-$4500 to spend on another camera.

And with the new lens running up to 500mm plus Extenders, that makes the demand for an APS-C model of the EOS R considerably less.
.

RF 100-500mm - will benefit from IBIS since it's an f/4.5-7.1 lens instead of f/4.5-5.6

RF 1.4x Extender

RF 2x Extender

.
As I said last year, the R system is (was) still immature until an IBIS model with dual slots is released for professional use. We're finally there. Canon now have four EOS R models available for consumers:
.
* EOS R - Basic Model (immature)
* EOS RP - Lower Priced limited features.
* EOS Ra - Modified Sensor for Astrophotography
* EOS R5 - Pro-end model (mature model)
.
We also know Canon has experimented with a practical model containing an APS-C sensor but have allegedly claimed to have abandoned the idea. Could they return to this experiment? Perhaps. But I'd say that day is a long way off or they would have released an APS-C version with the R5. As I have stated before, Canon don't experiment with the market - unlike some other manufacturers. They don't like to waste time or assets without a very clear road-map ahead. But this new model will ensure that future EOS M models will likely have IBIS. The technology and even some of the design aspects will trickle down to their other product lines.
.
There's still no need or motivation for Canon to want to produce an APS-C version of the R. Such a move is still in the realm of fantasy for pixel-peepers wanting to consolidate or wanting to use RF lenses that were mathematically designed to function with Full Frame sensors. The EOS M6 II is Canon's first mature APS-C mirrorless camera and its reputation and respect by reviewers and owners will more than likely force Canon to reconsider the lens designs of future M lenses to ensure higher clarity and resolution. Canon would be more likely to scrap all APS-C models and devote their manufacturing to just Full Frame rather than continue to make APS-C cameras. Look at the price of the RP (which is very close to the price of the M6 II) to appreciate why that's more likely than continuing to make APS-C. With the manufacturing cost leveling out, it may not really be in Canon's interest to keep making M cameras with the RP being capable of even more scale reduction.
.
It's a good day to be alive. The R cameras finally have something for everyone. Oddly enough, I can still get more zoom on an APS-C sensor with my 100-400mmL II lens with both extenders (1,803.2mm equiv) compared to a Full Frame R with the new 100-400mm + 2 extenders (1400mm). But the new Full Frame alternative is very appealing regardless.

-- hide signature --

As the length of a thread approaches 150, the probability that someone will make the obvious "it's not the camera, it's the photographer" remark approaches 1.
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile

 Alastair Norcross's gear list:Alastair Norcross's gear list
Canon G7 X II Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS M6 Canon EOS M6 II Canon PowerShot S100 +26 more
MAC Forum Pro • Posts: 14,912
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP  + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

 MAC's gear list:MAC's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS Rebel T7i Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS RP +12 more
rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
2

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Which comes with a huge weight and cost disadvantage.

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

I prefer primes over zooms for the image quality. It is limiting, but thats part of the fun. Plus the M50 or M6II with the 22mm is insanely light.

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

I'm glad you're fine with the weight and size. But I would say for most people, that would be considered far from a pocketable travel setup.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS RP Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Canon EF-M 32mm F1.4 Canon EF-M 15-45mm F3.5-6.3 IS STM +3 more
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 7,203
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
5

MAC wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Maybe, but I'd take the M6II with 18-150 over the RP with the new 24-105 any day. The RP has around 2/3 stop ISO advantage over the M6II, so, in the overlapping parts of the zoom range, you're getting maybe 1/3-1/2 stop IS advantage. If I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd much rather have the large performance advantages of the M6II, and the considerable extra range on the long end of the 18-150, than the fairly trivial ISO advantages of the RP and the extra wide-angle end of the 24-105.

however, I got the RF 24-105 F4 L which is not trivial advantage on the RP

Not trivial over the 18-150, but no advantage over an F1.4 prime on the M6II, in terms of ISO handling. In fact, the prime has a significant advantage for anything that moves, where you can't just take advantage of the IS to shoot at very slow shutter speeds.

Actually, if I had to have a camera with just one lens, I'd probably opt for the M6II with either 22 F2 or 32 F1.4 over either of those choices.

very, very limiting

Limits are not always bad. Some of us vastly prefer primes to zooms. I grew up with an SLR and a 50mm lens. I actually find it very enjoyable to go out with the M6II and just one shortish fast prime. There's a reason that those Fuji fixed lens cameras actually sell (though I still can't understand why those attracted to them don't just use an M with the 22 pancake).

But, luckily for me, I don't have to have a camera with just one lens (that's the beauty of an ILC). I would love to have an R5, and some nice R lenses (though I already have plenty of EF lenses, including some L lenses, which I could use on it). But I'd probably still use my M6II more, because I take it with me pretty much everywhere I go, sometimes with just the 22 F2 on it.

I take my RP + RF 24-105 F4 L pretty much everywhere I go - it fits in my jacket pocket

Pretty big pocket.

The RF 24-105 F4L and my 100L are my favorite optics ever

My favorites are the EF-M 32, Sigma EF-M 56, and Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS II. I do like the 100L, though.

For the kind of photography I do, the RP would never satisfy me. The M6II is perfect. Your preferences are obviously different, and that's fine.

-- hide signature --

As the length of a thread approaches 150, the probability that someone will make the obvious "it's not the camera, it's the photographer" remark approaches 1.
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile

 Alastair Norcross's gear list:Alastair Norcross's gear list
Canon G7 X II Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS M6 Canon EOS M6 II Canon PowerShot S100 +26 more
rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
3

I think the whole discussion of equivalency when comparing full frame to smaller sensors is pointless. It's a matter of physics, and there's no way to cheat that. Yes you can make a slow full frame lens that is close to the size and weight of a slightly faster APS-C lens. But by doing that you're essentially giving up the benefits of having the full frame camera in the first place.

And the very small APS-C setups are still quite a bit smaller than even the smallest full frame setups. I've had the M50 and the RP. The RP is still bigger and heavier, not by a ton, but it's noticeable. And even the smallest full frame lenses are still a bit bigger and heavier than the smallest APS-C lenses. Overall the APS-C camera is still going to smaller, cheaper and lighter. And the full frame camera is still going to be better in low light, more expensive and heavier.

I don't see why both can't continue to exist. The market is shrinking for sure, but it's still there enough to warrant the existence of both full frame and APS-C. And smartphones can produce decent results in perfect conditions. But otherwise are way behind in functionality and image quality.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS RP Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Canon EF-M 32mm F1.4 Canon EF-M 15-45mm F3.5-6.3 IS STM +3 more
LMOE Regular Member • Posts: 266
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
3

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Now, consider that the EOS RP is only marginally bigger and heavier than the M50. Most of the size difference comes from the larger grip on the RP Add this new $400 zoom lens to the RP and you have a pretty compact package with potential image quality better than any zoom lens in the M system. In a kit, this lens will be even cheaper. This would likely put a kit with the RP and new 24-105mm within $100 of the M6 II, 15-45mm and EVF.

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market. Instead of going head to head with crop sensor cameras like the Sony A6400 or Fuji X-T30, Canon is going to push small, stripped down full frame cameras and lenses to those price points. 7D users will likely be out of luck too. The new R5 appears to be the spiritual successor to the 5D series. When shooting in a crop mode, the R5 could produce images with at least 15MP. The only real advantage a 7D would have over the R5 is price. The R5 could replace both the 5D and 7D series. The R6 could replace both the 6D and 90D series. The RP, or future smaller version, could replace the 8Ti Rebel and M5 series. The only camera I don't see getting a direct full frame replacement is the M100/M200, but how long will those models last with the progress of smartphones?

"with potential image quality better than any zoom lens in the M system".

This is key. At $400 I would expect any advantages of FF will be lost on the poor optical quality of this lens. There is a reason for such a low price. They chose size over IQ.

And the R system will never approach the small size of an M6 with primes. In some configurations it might get close, but overall it will never have the same flexibility.

 LMOE's gear list:LMOE's gear list
Sony RX100 IV Nikon Z7 Nikon Z50 Fujifilm X-Pro3 Fujifilm X-T3 +26 more
justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,928
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
3

nnowak wrote:

There have been a lot of rumors that an even cheaper RF mount body is in the works.

Right now, there are only two RF lenses priced at $500 or less. Releasing a cheaper-than-RP camera in June 2020 doesn't make much sense to me.

LMOE Regular Member • Posts: 266
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
4

nnowak wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

MAC wrote:

the f7.1 lenses they are releasing suggest crop cameras are done

Entry-level APS-C: M50 (with lens), $599.99

Entry-level FF: RP (body only), $999.00

(Current prices on Canon USA website.)

There have been a lot of rumors that an even cheaper RF mount body is in the works. This new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 will likely only be $150 to $200 in a kit. Put those two together and you will have a full frame kit with a street price easily under $1000.

So, are you suggesting that they abandon the ~$500-$600 camera market?  That is a significant volume market.

 LMOE's gear list:LMOE's gear list
Sony RX100 IV Nikon Z7 Nikon Z50 Fujifilm X-Pro3 Fujifilm X-T3 +26 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads