Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 20,072
Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
1

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

-- hide signature --

Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 R2D2's gear list:R2D2's gear list
Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS M6 II
Ricoh Caplio R5
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
9

It doesn't really change anything for me. I had the RP and with the lenses it was just too heavy, and not enough of a jump in image quality to make it worth it. The M50 is still my favorite camera.

I do wish Canon would focus on the M system at least a little. Who knows if it has a solid future. I think Canon would be pretty dumb to give up on the M system, unless they made an APS-C version of the R mount.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS RP Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Panasonic Lumix G 25mm F1.7 ASPH +3 more
lumenite Contributing Member • Posts: 892
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
1

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

Some features will surely trickle down to M system. Rumors say even R6 will have IBIS and 12/20 fps. However, one of the main huddles might be Canon's will. They look very aggressive at this R5 announcement maybe because they look eager to take back the portion delivered to Sony. But what about the crop market? I just hope that M5 mk2 with IBIS and a couple of lenses would be developed. I do not expect much from the small, light, inexpensive system.

 lumenite's gear list:lumenite's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Canon EOS M Canon EOS M5 Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM Canon EF 50mm F1.4 USM +6 more
rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

lumenite wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

Some features will surely trickle down to M system. Rumors say even R6 will have IBIS and 12/20 fps. However, one of the main huddles might be Canon's will. They look very aggressive at this R5 announcement maybe because they look eager to take back the portion delivered to Sony. But what about the crop market? I just hope that M5 mk2 with IBIS and a couple of lenses would be developed. I do not expect much from the small, light, inexpensive system.

Canon can make some seriously good stuff when they put their mind to it. I hope they focus on crop cameras sometime in the near future. Maybe after the R5 release they'll circle back and start focusing on APS-C. IBIS would be great, better video options would be awesome too.

I love Canon images so I won't be jumping ship anytime soon. But I am jealous about what Fuji and Sony are putting in their latest cameras. If only I liked the images as much.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS RP Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Panasonic Lumix G 25mm F1.7 ASPH +3 more
PaddyC Regular Member • Posts: 371
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
7

Not at all.

This will be a very expensive camera. And the R lenses, in general, are very expensive and big and, for so many applications, IMHO, unnecessary.

 PaddyC's gear list:PaddyC's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS M50 Canon EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM +1 more
Dareshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 4,276
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
5

No. Too big too expensive as system  going forward. Once Canon has pushed out the next few lens and camera  releases maybe they will pay the M system a little more attention.

jkcz Forum Member • Posts: 73
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
1

rick9814911 wrote:

It doesn't really change anything for me. I had the RP and with the lenses it was just too heavy, and not enough of a jump in image quality to make it worth it. The M50 is still my favorite camera.

I do wish Canon would focus on the M system at least a little. Who knows if it has a solid future. I think Canon would be pretty dumb to give up on the M system, unless they made an APS-C version of the R mount.

I've been watching the RP prices drop (especially used) and paired with the new RF24-105 and RF35 prime it could be an interesting little setup. I don't think the increase in size would be such a big deal for me and that zoom paired with FF could be a better option than any native EF-M zoom currently available. Which lenses did you compare with on your M50 and RP? Or were you not comparing low light capabilities or AF?

 jkcz's gear list:jkcz's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS M100 Canon EOS M50 Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS STM +2 more
rrc1967 Senior Member • Posts: 1,023
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
3

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

I've always wondered if one of the reasons the M5II got delayed was because IBIS was pending.

The only thing I've ever heard was that the M5 Mark II was "delayed" I've never really heard from anywhere that it was "cancelled". Of course we've all heard that the M6 Mark II replaces the M5 and M6. however that doesn't mean that the M5 Mark II may not show up at later date.  if any statement was made it was always in the current tense because canon is wiggly like that. they never devulge future plans.  I know Craig from CR has a source that states there's no M5 Mark II... so we'll see.

This, of course, is a question that will be asked of Canon in two weeks "Does the M6 Mark II (as I hold it up in my hands) completely replace the M5?" followed by holding up the EVF and the flash and asking "what do i do now?". Okay, I'll probably be more polite than that.

it would make sense for Canon to take on the other flagship APS-C bodies if they felt the need to - and that would require IBIS. It would also explain why Canon gave a weird answer to M5 Mark II questions the past 6 months. it's not as if they could say it's delayed because of IBIS.

this camera? R5? doesn't interest me. The EOS R5s .. I'll be all over that.

rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

jkcz wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

It doesn't really change anything for me. I had the RP and with the lenses it was just too heavy, and not enough of a jump in image quality to make it worth it. The M50 is still my favorite camera.

I do wish Canon would focus on the M system at least a little. Who knows if it has a solid future. I think Canon would be pretty dumb to give up on the M system, unless they made an APS-C version of the R mount.

I've been watching the RP prices drop (especially used) and paired with the new RF24-105 and RF35 prime it could be an interesting little setup. I don't think the increase in size would be such a big deal for me and that zoom paired with FF could be a better option than any native EF-M zoom currently available. Which lenses did you compare with on your M50 and RP? Or were you not comparing low light capabilities or AF?

I had the RF 35mm, 50mm STM and 40mm STM. The RF 24-105 is certainly better than any native zoom available on the M system, it's not exactly light though. I do stick with primes mostly. The EF-M 32mm is my main lens. In order to match that quality on the RP I would need the Sigma 50mm Art or the 50mm 1.2l. The RF 50mm is way too heavy and way too expensive for me. All three are just too heavy to be worth it for me.

The lowlight performance was of course better on the RP, but not mind blowingly better. I found the shallow depth of field a disadvantage in low light. I very often had to stop down to get what I wanted in focus, making the higher ISO performance not all that helpful.

The autofocus in lowlight and eye AF was better on the RP as well, but still not bad on the M50, and the M6 Mark ii should be pretty close to the RP.

If I shot professionaly I would have stuck with the RP. But I just don't enjoy carrying around full frame lenses. The lower quality primes can be fairly light. But the high quality full frame glass is not cheap, and typically very heavy.

Edit: I also had the 85mm 1.8 and 100mm macro. Great looking images, but again, pretty heavy. And didn't blow me away.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS RP Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Panasonic Lumix G 25mm F1.7 ASPH +3 more
dpeete Contributing Member • Posts: 540
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
2

I just hope they really play through. Based on my experience with Canon, it feels like we got a lucky with the M6ii in that they didn't hold back much. They tried to hold back 24fps and got roasted, so they delivered on that. That was a real positive move for Canon. Now they need to play through across their lines.

As a good omen, the R5 photos show a fully articulated screen. That was one of the things that pushed me away from the Canon full frame line... the seemed to feel that "professional" cameras like the 5D and the 1D shouldn't have articulated screens. Don't stop Canon, play all the way through.

 dpeete's gear list:dpeete's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS M6 Sony a7R III Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM +14 more
nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 6,092
Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
11

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5.  Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Now, consider that the EOS RP is only marginally bigger and heavier than the M50.  Most of the size difference comes from the larger grip on the RP  Add this new $400 zoom lens to the RP and you have a pretty compact package with potential image quality better than any zoom lens in the M system.  In a kit, this lens will be even cheaper.  This would likely put a kit with the RP and new 24-105mm within $100 of the M6 II, 15-45mm and EVF.

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system.  I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon.  I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market.  Instead of going head to head with crop sensor cameras like the Sony A6400 or Fuji X-T30, Canon is going to push small, stripped down full frame cameras and lenses to those price points.  7D users will likely be out of luck too.  The new R5 appears to be the spiritual successor to the 5D series.  When shooting in a crop mode, the R5 could produce images with at least 15MP.  The only real advantage a 7D would have over the R5 is price.  The R5 could replace both the 5D and 7D series.  The R6 could replace both the 6D and 90D series.  The RP, or future smaller version, could replace the 8Ti Rebel and M5 series.  The only camera I don't see getting a direct full frame replacement is the M100/M200, but how long will those models last with the progress of smartphones?

Rock and Rollei Senior Member • Posts: 1,918
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Now, consider that the EOS RP is only marginally bigger and heavier than the M50. Most of the size difference comes from the larger grip on the RP Add this new $400 zoom lens to the RP and you have a pretty compact package with potential image quality better than any zoom lens in the M system. In a kit, this lens will be even cheaper. This would likely put a kit with the RP and new 24-105mm within $100 of the M6 II, 15-45mm and EVF.

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market. Instead of going head to head with crop sensor cameras like the Sony A6400 or Fuji X-T30, Canon is going to push small, stripped down full frame cameras and lenses to those price points. 7D users will likely be out of luck too. The new R5 appears to be the spiritual successor to the 5D series. When shooting in a crop mode, the R5 could produce images with at least 15MP. The only real advantage a 7D would have over the R5 is price. The R5 could replace both the 5D and 7D series. The R6 could replace both the 6D and 90D series. The RP, or future smaller version, could replace the 8Ti Rebel and M5 series. The only camera I don't see getting a direct full frame replacement is the M100/M200, but how long will those models last with the progress of smartphones?

Yes, the new lenses made me take note a lot more.
As a pro, I shoot with the R and 5D IV already. The R5 doesn't actually do much for me - IBIS might be nice from time to time, but otherwise, the new features aren't ones I need. I suppose it could replace my 7D II, but then the M6 II already can, in many ways.
But this lens does mean I could more seriously consider using my R as a tavel camera when flying with just cabin bags. Certainly something to consider. Possibly. Still a way to go until I can have the same system in a small size, though.

 Rock and Rollei's gear list:Rock and Rollei's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EOS M5 +35 more
nolten Regular Member • Posts: 473
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

I've been reading about the new R5 and the RF 100-500 L in another forum. Interesting combo especially if you add the RF 24-105 L. If I were just venturing into digital and committed to Canon, I might give this setup some thought. Especially if I had a bunch of alt and non-IS primes I liked to play with.

OTOH, I've been putting my Canon digital kit together since 2003. I now have the suite of f4 L IS zooms, including the 100-400 L II, and a range of IS primes. I also have what I think are the best EF-S lenses. Last year I dipped into the M lineup with the M6II, 11-22 and 28 macro plus EF adapter. If I were really into non-IS primes, I think the offerings for the M system are hard to beat. My current active camera bodies are listed below.

Looking at my decade and a half of digital images on my 5K computer display and 4K TV, I can't see any real stills IQ improvement since my original 5D + 24-105 + 100-400. The original 5D has enough pixels to feed a 4K TV and the 5D2 to feed a 5K iMac. Certainly the features and usability of cameras have gotten better over time as has the frame rate. The 5D4 is far better in every way than the original 5D. The IQ of APS-C sensor bodies has seen dramatic improvement IMHO where the sensor and lens of my G1X3 is nipping at the heals of my 6D2 + 24-70 f4 L.

So I have to ask myself what would any of the R cameras give me that the my current ones don't? I'll never need more than 30 MP and 24 is plenty. Unless I invest in RF lenses I won't see any weight advantage and then minimal. One of my biggest complaints about the M6 is that using the lens adapter is a hassle and defeats its size advantage over DSLR alternatives. The M6II with EVF, adapter and 55-250 is the same weight, length and height as the 77D with the same lens. The 55-250 is a small lens but hang the M adapter on it and its nearly the size and weight of a 70-300.

Still, I like the M6II and with the 70-300 IS II lens yields images nearly as good as my 5D4 + 100-400 II + 1.4x. Would the R5 + 100-500 be any better? It would certainly cost me many thousands to find out. -- So has the R system changed my road map? Yes indeed, I've come to the parking area at the end of the road. My current kit is the one I'll be living, and happy with! for the foreseeable future. Well, I might experiment with some of the non-IS M primes.

 nolten's gear list:nolten's gear list
Canon G1 X III Canon EOS 80D Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EOS M6 II
thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 3,726
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?

R2D2 wrote:

The specs on the new R5 look like a it's going to be a real paradigm shifter...

Canon R5 announcement at DPReview

R5 details at B&H

Do you think Canon is moving in a new direction (esp with the inclusion of IBIS)? Will any of these goodies trickle down to the M-System? Will there BE a future M-System? What will your next upgrades be...

I love my M6ii. Nothing else out there is as small and light, with such great bang for the buck. Will there be an M6iii?

R2

2 things are important:

1. the price of the R5 18 months after it's release date

2. if there will be an M5mkII with IBIS and the price of this camera

Furthermore i'm not decided yet how much i need zooms in case of having a dual camera setup. It's not only about product lines evolving here, it's also about me as a photographer changing my shooting habits.

It are my zooms keeping me at M. When i find i don't need zooms so much and the price of the R5 is very good, that will certainly push me to RF.

If i want to keep both of my zooms and the 1. will be very high, while 2 will appear at a very affordable prime, that will keep me at M.

Probably i find i don't need the 70-200 f/2.8 (as i have 105 f/1.4) but i do need a 24-70 f/2.8 i could go with the R5 as my second RF body and pair it with the EF 24-70mm f/2.8 mkII, or the RF 24-70mm f/2.8, and for the latter i could even just buy another R or even the RP and just skip the R5.

For now this is only day dreaming as i am deeply in depth, the prices and precise specs and future M releases are unknown for now, and last but not least, i have so much new toys to play around with i really don't need new gear now to have a lot of shooting fun. All i need is time, good weather and nice shooting occasions. Really looking forward to the birthday of my daughter this month, and praying for some good light. That's what is important for now.

-- hide signature --

M for zooms, RF for primes

 thunder storm's gear list:thunder storm's gear list
Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS R Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 35-80mm f/4.0-5.6 III Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM +11 more
plantdoc Veteran Member • Posts: 3,624
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
2

No roadmap in a market that is pushing out new technology and models at a rapid rate. I wish Canon would put more emphasis on the M system instead of pushing FF which really offers me little advantage. Been dabbling with M4/3 and I like the system even without the highest gear. Even the oldest 16 megapixel sensor makes a fine 13 x 19 print or HD slide show. Video? I like creating edited movies of travel and family activities, but most potential viewers just want a 20 sec clip to view on their phone. No need for 4K or 8k for a phone viewed clip that is usually discarded.

Greg

nolten Regular Member • Posts: 473
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

As R&R said the new RF lenses sound interesting like this STM and the 100-500. But I have to ask will the new RF 24-105 STM be any better than the EF 24-105 STM? I agree the EF-S and EF-M lineups both really need a high quality normal zoom like the 24-105 L provides for FF.

For me the 24-70 equivalent lens of the G1X3 fills this roll. This camera is a 14 oz jewell and compares very well in IQ to my 5D4 + 24-105 L or 6D2 + 24-70 f4 L. FF is certainly better but when I don't want to carry it I turn to the G. Well captured images look identical to me on my output devices. I use the M6II for light weight reach or with its excellent 11-22. The G sits in the middle for a <4 lb kit when FF is too much.

 nolten's gear list:nolten's gear list
Canon G1 X III Canon EOS 80D Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EOS M6 II
rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1
4

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Now, consider that the EOS RP is only marginally bigger and heavier than the M50. Most of the size difference comes from the larger grip on the RP Add this new $400 zoom lens to the RP and you have a pretty compact package with potential image quality better than any zoom lens in the M system. In a kit, this lens will be even cheaper. This would likely put a kit with the RP and new 24-105mm within $100 of the M6 II, 15-45mm and EVF.

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market. Instead of going head to head with crop sensor cameras like the Sony A6400 or Fuji X-T30, Canon is going to push small, stripped down full frame cameras and lenses to those price points. 7D users will likely be out of luck too. The new R5 appears to be the spiritual successor to the 5D series. When shooting in a crop mode, the R5 could produce images with at least 15MP. The only real advantage a 7D would have over the R5 is price. The R5 could replace both the 5D and 7D series. The R6 could replace both the 6D and 90D series. The RP, or future smaller version, could replace the 8Ti Rebel and M5 series. The only camera I don't see getting a direct full frame replacement is the M100/M200, but how long will those models last with the progress of smartphones?

I disagree with most of these points. The EF-M 18-150 weighs 300 grams, the RF 24-105 weighs 700 grams. That is not even close to marginal. I agree that when you factor in the 1.6x crop on the aperture, the 24-105 is a far better lens for low light and getting stronger bokeh. But in terms of weight and size, the difference is massive, regardless of body size. It is not possible to build a full frame kit and have the weight be even close to APS-C.

I also feel smartphones are very far from matching APS-C. Only time will tell, maybe you're right. But I can't get pictures anywhere close quality wise from a smartphone when compared with a crop sensor camera. If you want professional looking images, there are very few situations where a smartphone is going to come close.

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS RP Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Panasonic Lumix G 25mm F1.7 ASPH +3 more
Rock and Rollei Senior Member • Posts: 1,918
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

rick9814911 wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Now, consider that the EOS RP is only marginally bigger and heavier than the M50. Most of the size difference comes from the larger grip on the RP Add this new $400 zoom lens to the RP and you have a pretty compact package with potential image quality better than any zoom lens in the M system. In a kit, this lens will be even cheaper. This would likely put a kit with the RP and new 24-105mm within $100 of the M6 II, 15-45mm and EVF.

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market. Instead of going head to head with crop sensor cameras like the Sony A6400 or Fuji X-T30, Canon is going to push small, stripped down full frame cameras and lenses to those price points. 7D users will likely be out of luck too. The new R5 appears to be the spiritual successor to the 5D series. When shooting in a crop mode, the R5 could produce images with at least 15MP. The only real advantage a 7D would have over the R5 is price. The R5 could replace both the 5D and 7D series. The R6 could replace both the 6D and 90D series. The RP, or future smaller version, could replace the 8Ti Rebel and M5 series. The only camera I don't see getting a direct full frame replacement is the M100/M200, but how long will those models last with the progress of smartphones?

I disagree with most of these points. The EF-M 18-150 weighs 300 grams, the RF 24-105 weighs 700 grams. That is not even close to marginal. I agree that when you factor in the 1.6x crop on the aperture, the 24-105 is a far better lens for low light and getting stronger bokeh. But in terms of weight and size, the difference is massive, regardless of body size. It is not possible to build a full frame kit and have the weight be even close to APS-C.

He's talking about the newly-announced RF 24-105 IS STM - that's 395g, so it certainly is marginal.

I also feel smartphones are very far from matching APS-C. Only time will tell, maybe you're right. But I can't get pictures anywhere close quality wise from a smartphone when compared with a crop sensor camera. If you want professional looking images, there are very few situations where a smartphone is going to come close.

 Rock and Rollei's gear list:Rock and Rollei's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EOS M5 +35 more
rick9814911 Regular Member • Posts: 130
Re: Forget the R5, look at the 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1

Rock and Rollei wrote:

rick9814911 wrote:

nnowak wrote:

The new RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 is the same length as the EF-M 18-150mm and only marginally fatter and heavier. The new 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 lens sounds slow, but if this was a crop lens, it would be equivalent to a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5. Who here wouldn't love a 15-65mm f/2.5-4.5 lens for the M system?

Now, consider that the EOS RP is only marginally bigger and heavier than the M50. Most of the size difference comes from the larger grip on the RP Add this new $400 zoom lens to the RP and you have a pretty compact package with potential image quality better than any zoom lens in the M system. In a kit, this lens will be even cheaper. This would likely put a kit with the RP and new 24-105mm within $100 of the M6 II, 15-45mm and EVF.

I would not be so worried about the specific health of the M system. I would be worried about the future of all crop sensors cameras from Canon. I am starting to think that Canon has a long term plan to leverage their internal sensor production to push full frame cameras to all levels of the market. Instead of going head to head with crop sensor cameras like the Sony A6400 or Fuji X-T30, Canon is going to push small, stripped down full frame cameras and lenses to those price points. 7D users will likely be out of luck too. The new R5 appears to be the spiritual successor to the 5D series. When shooting in a crop mode, the R5 could produce images with at least 15MP. The only real advantage a 7D would have over the R5 is price. The R5 could replace both the 5D and 7D series. The R6 could replace both the 6D and 90D series. The RP, or future smaller version, could replace the 8Ti Rebel and M5 series. The only camera I don't see getting a direct full frame replacement is the M100/M200, but how long will those models last with the progress of smartphones?

I disagree with most of these points. The EF-M 18-150 weighs 300 grams, the RF 24-105 weighs 700 grams. That is not even close to marginal. I agree that when you factor in the 1.6x crop on the aperture, the 24-105 is a far better lens for low light and getting stronger bokeh. But in terms of weight and size, the difference is massive, regardless of body size. It is not possible to build a full frame kit and have the weight be even close to APS-C.

He's talking about the newly-announced RF 24-105 IS STM - that's 395g, so it certainly is marginal.

I also feel smartphones are very far from matching APS-C. Only time will tell, maybe you're right. But I can't get pictures anywhere close quality wise from a smartphone when compared with a crop sensor camera. If you want professional looking images, there are very few situations where a smartphone is going to come close.

Thank you for clarifying! Overall the weight differences across the whole system is still significent. But yes that's impressivley light for a full frame zoom!

 rick9814911's gear list:rick9814911's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Canon EOS M50 Canon EOS RP Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Panasonic Lumix G 25mm F1.7 ASPH +3 more
Chrisinhouston
Chrisinhouston Regular Member • Posts: 418
Re: Does the new R5 change your roadmap?
2

No, I have several systems and each has a purpose.  My M system is lightweight and easy to travel with.  My 7D MkII and long zooms are great for wildlife and sports and my Canon R and new RF lenses are a fun new system for when I can afford a bit more weight on my shoulder and are mainly for landscapes architecture and portraits.

Of course any of these will also work for what the others do but I try to choose what I will shoot with based on the subject at hand.

-- hide signature --

“Which of my photographs is my favorite? The one I’m going to take tomorrow.” – Imogen Cunningham

 Chrisinhouston's gear list:Chrisinhouston's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Mark II Canon EOS 5DS Canon EOS M5 Canon EOS R GoPro Hero5 Black +29 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads