Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?

Started Feb 13, 2020 | Discussions
Tim O'Connor
Tim O'Connor Veteran Member • Posts: 5,641
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?
4

mfenske wrote:

I'm beginning to think Sony isn't ever going to develop a model with a proper sized grip (more depth) and a body with a tilty/flippy screen so if this has those I'd give it a look.

The A7r4 has a fantastic grip - If you mean a fully articulating screen, then no I doubt they will. Not a fan of them myself.

-- hide signature --
 Tim O'Connor's gear list:Tim O'Connor's gear list
Nikon D600 Nikon D500 Sony a7R IV Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.5 1-5x Macro Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF +11 more
Tim O'Connor
Tim O'Connor Veteran Member • Posts: 5,641
Re: Let me help you.

Mike Fewster wrote:.

Please note and read what I said carefully. The Canon looks nice and is getting into the same competition as the Sony. That's significant I guess but really, it is only playing catch up.

The Oly is breaking interesting new ground. I'm a Sony FF user and that suits some of my particular needs. But I sure find the following more interesting than the Canon specs. Also please note, I am not saying that the Oly would be my first choice of camera, I need FF. It is just that I find the following more interesting than the Canon specs (as far as we know them.)

7 stop IBIS. It was always very good on Oly, now 4 second hand held is claimed. You can hand hold that thing while doing pixel shift. And 80megapixel equivalent is claimed if you put it on a tripod.

Then there is focus bracketing. Please Sony, please...

It also has the best sensor cleaning available and they say it has been improved on this model.

Anyone else who would like that star sky AF system as well.

The ND filter system is very cool.

Then look at its weather sealing. IPX1 rated. Yes please.

All of these would be amazing, and I would take them over 8K any day of the week

-- hide signature --
 Tim O'Connor's gear list:Tim O'Connor's gear list
Nikon D600 Nikon D500 Sony a7R IV Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.5 1-5x Macro Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF +11 more
joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 6,877
bleeding or not - the market is shrinking
3

Peter Foiles wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

Peter Foiles wrote:

The key points here are “development “ and “sometime this year” This camera will likely not hit store shelves before fall which I believe is 2 years after the Z7. Development announcements are what companies do to stop the bleeding to competitor products. I am sure this will be a perfectly fine camera and will likely at least slow the bleeding but I am not sure it will cause much bleeding for Sony or Nikon.

I'm not following. Do you think people are going to stop buying Sony/Nikon bodies this fall?

Canon customers have been bleeding from Canon to Sony/Nikon, the R5 may slow or eliminate that.

Dependent on pricing - I don't know how many times I've been "wrestling" with forum members and in real life about pricing not being important but TCO (total cost of ownership) in conjunction with benefits I get (perceived or real)

In short - I expect the pricing level of the R5 to be at least at the level of the A9 II or above. This is a niche of a niche market.

This is a flagship camera and it will most presumably have a kind of flagship pricing - how much is the current 1Dx III right now?

The top notch RF lenses are also very pricy plus being ultra heavy and large - hardly attractive for a new customer base and moderate attractive for brand loyalists - I know many Nikon and Canon fan boys that simply adapt mediocre existing DSLR lenses to their brand new MILCs with all negative aspects.

Either Canon earns money with their MILC bodies or they try to subsidize with a lower cost entry burden price level with the pricy lenses. As a business case this would be a (too) big gamble IMHO

Thus I think the R5 will be either 1Dx III pricing level or we'll see a R1 in a year from now but then I hardly see them exceeding the current sparse specifications.

The sparse information of the R5 already exceeds the 1Dx III - that said it is questionable that PROs will switch rapidly to the MILC form factor with lenses that weigh north of 6 lb

On the flip side I do not believe that many customers will bleed from Sony/Nikon to Canon due to the R5. I expect (and hope) all three companies continue selling bodies for the forseeable future.

I guess the over all question is what's the more compelling offer in the market?

At Sony you can get a huge selection of mediocre lenses and a large selection of top notch comparable small and comparable lightweight ultra fast primes.

For most the lens selection is the diving factor for an eco system decisions. Sony has the best lens selection in FF and the best foundation for miniaturization.

The A7S III will be the most important milestone for Sony's MILC future. An entry level A7 IV with slightly upped features like OVF, new body design and some gimmicks her and there and at a low entry level price will round that up.

I am personally looking forward to the A7R V with more AI and computerization. There is a lot to gain in AI looking at the SmartPhone companies - neither Canon nor Nikon produce them but Sony does and I am sure the development departments within Sony talk to each other.

I have low to none expectation of modern and advanced Software features at Nikon or Canon - they have been sitting on their hands for a decade now - no big innovation in a decade.

Canon introduced AF. Sony made it almost ridiculously accurate with Human and Animal Eye AF and Real Time tracking - a first glimpse of AI and we ain't seen nothing yet.

Future generations of buyers will come with a smartphone mindset rather than brand loyalty.

Just my 2ct of course

-- hide signature --

_____________________________________
A7R IV - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

 joger's gear list:joger's gear list
Sony a7R IV Sony FE 135mm F1.8 GM Sony FE 35mm F1.4 GM Sony FE 50mm F1.2 GM Sony FE 14mm F1.8 GM +13 more
joger
OP joger Veteran Member • Posts: 6,877
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?
2

sportyaccordy wrote:

The 24-70/4 was bad. 35 1.8 was very late and very expensive. Etc. etc. Canon RF lens releases have been much more consistent, logical, high quality and reassuring of Canon's commitment and capabilities.

That's probably a misconception of the target audience.

Sony probably does not have the low end market as first priority. Sony understands that for a foreseeable future the PRO market in sports and action is split between the CaNikon and the low end market is in Fuji and Olympus territory - hard to compete with them in pricing and rather low attractive from a margin side.

I am pretty certain that Sony has the Semi-PRO and wealthy amateur segment as target.

For this target audience the lens and camera portfolio makes a lot of sense.

I perceive Sony as the poor man's Leica with lots of advantages and minor shortcomings.

The 35 f/1.8 was probably never the most strategic need from Sony's side.

A modernized ZA 35 would make a lot of sense with the learning curve Sony has been through.

I predict that we'll probably see a good deal of the indicated missing six lenses being top notch performers rather then entry level low cost lenses.

In a shrinking market (almost) the only consequent move.

-- hide signature --

_____________________________________
A7R IV - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

 joger's gear list:joger's gear list
Sony a7R IV Sony FE 135mm F1.8 GM Sony FE 35mm F1.4 GM Sony FE 50mm F1.2 GM Sony FE 14mm F1.8 GM +13 more
lattesweden
lattesweden Veteran Member • Posts: 4,520
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?

What does that sensor have as scan time? That basically dictates if it useful in e-shutter mode or not.

-- hide signature --

Best regards
/Anders
----------------------------------------------------
42 Megapixels is the answer to life, the universe and everything.
Gone in 20 fps.
You don't have to like my pictures, but it would help: http://www.lattermann.com/gallery

tqlla Veteran Member • Posts: 6,119
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?

lattesweden wrote:

What does that sensor have as scan time? That basically dictates if it useful in e-shutter mode or not.

Per Jim Kasson, the sensor scan time on the A7Riii is around 1/15, A7Riv is around 1/10, and the A9 is around 1/160. FF, uncompressed.

Given the supposed 20FPS of the R5, the scan time must be less than 1/20. Unless that 20FPS is something dumb like lower res crop.

 tqlla's gear list:tqlla's gear list
Sony RX1R II Sony a7R III Sony 135mm F1.8 ZA Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sigma 24-70 F2.8 DG DN
LiveFromPhilly
LiveFromPhilly Contributing Member • Posts: 505
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?
1

I think it’s good Canon is getting serious about mirrorless. I’ve never shot with the brand for ILCs, but their strategy seems too all over the place for me as they’re APS-C and full frame mirrorless bodies use different and incompatible lens mounts.

That said, I know a lot of Sony users are former Canon shooters, so it’s nice that they’re making a camera that competes for those who miss things about Canon’s cameras. I prefer Sony personally but I don’t have the energy to be brand loyal to a camera company; I hope they’re all successful and make products that their users like.

 LiveFromPhilly's gear list:LiveFromPhilly's gear list
Nikon D60 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Sony a7C Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-150mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega OIS Sony FE 55mm F1.8 +5 more
PWPhotography Forum Pro • Posts: 10,876
Re: Not competition to A9/A9II
3

MILC man wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

MILC man wrote:

canon had to use a sony sensor in their 1" g7-x-mark-iii, and it's apparently cdaf-only: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/point-and-shoot-digital-cameras/advanced-cameras/powershot-g7-x-mark-iii

if it was a canon stacked sensor, you'd be seeing all kinds of p.r. about it, because it would be the first stacked sensor that they ever made.

so there is no indication that this camera will be competitive with the a9/a9ii, at all.

it may not be as good a sports camera as the A9

to put it mildly, lol... but it's what the o.p. claimed: "... the first interesting MILC form competition for the Sony A7R IV and A9 II"

the overhype train left the station in the first post to this thread.

but could combine excellent 8K video,

you mean like the 4k hard sensor crop that the eos-r has?

or like the porky mjpeg codec that the 1dxmk2 uses?

perhaps it'll be cdaf-only, like that new 1" canon camera...

great color science,

not according to actual blind surveys

the best ( albeit expensive ) glass,

you mean the porky unstabilized rf50/1.2, the porky unstabilized 28-70/2, plastic zooms like the slow 24-105/7.1 STM, etc.

tell us, does ANY rf-mount lens have a linear voice coil focus motor, like real milc companies have been using for years? https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/04/a-look-at-electromagnetic-focusing/

where is canon going to come up with 20fps af-c lenses for this mystical camera? so far, they don't seem to have any...

sony by comparison rates it's e-mount lenses as 15-20fps af-c capable: http://support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/support/ilc/products/ilce9/continuousshooting/en/index.html?id=spt

canon apparently doesn't have the lens eng/mfg capability to do that.

solid ibis, stacked hi rez mode , great dynamic range as well as whats known as "organic look" and the best eye focus

no to all of that

" the Rats are the first to leave a sinking ship "

i'm glad that we can agree on something

Canon has let its customers down many times in last several years.  Higher expectation but only resulted more disappointment.  I'd not hold breath on such paper spec until the camera is out and fully tested.

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +15 more
The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 24,707
Re: Not competition to A9/A9II
12

This announcement from Canon has sure triggered some Sony users to go on uber defensive mode.

Tristimulus Veteran Member • Posts: 7,944
Re: Not competition to A9/A9II
4

The Davinator wrote:

This announcement from Canon has sure triggered some Sony users to go on uber defensive mode.

Just as expected ... and uber mode warranty some good and entertaining fun! 

Good for Canon users that they now get a mirrorless sports and wildlife camera, but guess it will be priced for enthusiasts.

For those of us locked into the Sony ecosystem (gone a bit wild buying lenses) I guess what Sony has to offer will make us happy.

And happily Sony does NOT stop innovation now that they get the competition they have been looking for the last five years - the race us on, good for us all.

teddoman
teddoman Senior Member • Posts: 2,830
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?

Curious if it's possible the R5 shared some development with the 1DX III, which also has 20 fps in liveview mode.

Does it makes sense to talk about the R5 as a higher MP version of the 1DX III but where it's limited to DPAF-based liveview mode and an EVF, and where the separate AF sensor and OVF have been removed?

If the OVF and traditional DSLR AF has been removed from this version, making it a fully mirrorless version of the 1DX III, but with higher resolution for photos and video, what kind of MSRP does that get?

-- hide signature --

Ted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tedchang/
C&C is encouraged, I'm always learning

 teddoman's gear list:teddoman's gear list
Sony a9 Sony a7C Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 50mm F2 Voigtlander 90mm F3.5 APO-Lanthar SL II Sony FE 35mm F1.4 +7 more
HFLM Senior Member • Posts: 1,977
Re: bleeding or not - the market is shrinking
2

joger wrote:

Peter Foiles wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

Peter Foiles wrote:

The key points here are “development “ and “sometime this year” This camera will likely not hit store shelves before fall which I believe is 2 years after the Z7. Development announcements are what companies do to stop the bleeding to competitor products. I am sure this will be a perfectly fine camera and will likely at least slow the bleeding but I am not sure it will cause much bleeding for Sony or Nikon.

I'm not following. Do you think people are going to stop buying Sony/Nikon bodies this fall?

Canon customers have been bleeding from Canon to Sony/Nikon, the R5 may slow or eliminate that.

Dependent on pricing - I don't know how many times I've been "wrestling" with forum members and in real life about pricing not being important but TCO (total cost of ownership) in conjunction with benefits I get (perceived or real)

In short - I expect the pricing level of the R5 to be at least at the level of the A9 II or above. This is a niche of a niche market.

This is a flagship camera and it will most presumably have a kind of flagship pricing - how much is the current 1Dx III right now?

The top notch RF lenses are also very pricy plus being ultra heavy and large - hardly attractive for a new customer base and moderate attractive for brand loyalists - I know many Nikon and Canon fan boys that simply adapt mediocre existing DSLR lenses to their brand new MILCs with all negative aspects.

Either Canon earns money with their MILC bodies or they try to subsidize with a lower cost entry burden price level with the pricy lenses. As a business case this would be a (too) big gamble IMHO

Thus I think the R5 will be either 1Dx III pricing level or we'll see a R1 in a year from now but then I hardly see them exceeding the current sparse specifications.

The sparse information of the R5 already exceeds the 1Dx III - that said it is questionable that PROs will switch rapidly to the MILC form factor with lenses that weigh north of 6 lb

On the flip side I do not believe that many customers will bleed from Sony/Nikon to Canon due to the R5. I expect (and hope) all three companies continue selling bodies for the forseeable future.

I guess the over all question is what's the more compelling offer in the market?

At Sony you can get a huge selection of mediocre lenses and a large selection of top notch comparable small and comparable lightweight ultra fast primes.

For most the lens selection is the diving factor for an eco system decisions. Sony has the best lens selection in FF and the best foundation for miniaturization.

The A7S III will be the most important milestone for Sony's MILC future. An entry level A7 IV with slightly upped features like OVF, new body design and some gimmicks her and there and at a low entry level price will round that up.

I am personally looking forward to the A7R V with more AI and computerization. There is a lot to gain in AI looking at the SmartPhone companies - neither Canon nor Nikon produce them but Sony does and I am sure the development departments within Sony talk to each other.

I have low to none expectation of modern and advanced Software features at Nikon or Canon - they have been sitting on their hands for a decade now - no big innovation in a decade.

Canon introduced AF. Sony made it almost ridiculously accurate with Human and Animal Eye AF and Real Time tracking - a first glimpse of AI and we ain't seen nothing yet.

Future generations of buyers will come with a smartphone mindset rather than brand loyalty.

Just my 2ct of course

"This is a flagship camera and it will most presumably have a kind of flagship pricing - how much is the current 1Dx III right now?"

The camera isn't even out yet and details and caveats are vaguely known. There are even sites (mirrorlessrumors.com) where sources claim no 4k120 and real 8k is coming etc.. We don't know. We don't know whether it is a stacked sensor, the 20fps is with tracking or with AF frozen etc. (remember, even the Nikon 1 could do super highe fps; just writing it in a teaser spec sheet doesn't say anything).

All we know is people get crazy over specs too fast. Dream about this and that, call doom to company A and B etc.

I would be surprised if Canon decided to install a camera beating the 1dx3 in specs shortly after its introduction, for a much lower price. What is the probability for that to happen? What is the probability of this camera even beating the Cinema line? I would claim it is very low.

I can't see any reason to jump ship again. The A9(ii), A7riii etc. work fantastic for us, landscapers can use the A7riv and Sigma 14-24DN, a class-leading combination right now, what would I gain from this Canon? Would I get more clients, make suddenly better images? Surely not.

 HFLM's gear list:HFLM's gear list
Sony a9 Sony a7R IV Sony a9 II Sony a1
PWPhotography Forum Pro • Posts: 10,876
Re: Not competition to A9/A9II
3

Trollmannx wrote:

The Davinator wrote:

This announcement from Canon has sure triggered some Sony users to go on uber defensive mode.

Just as expected ... and uber mode warranty some good and entertaining fun!

Someone just like to downplay Sony regardless.

Good for Canon users that they now get a mirrorless sports and wildlife camera, but guess it will be priced for enthusiasts.

We don't know yet on the paper spec. I doubt this camera can shoot 20fps with 40+mp and in what buffer depth? Otherwise why Canon and Nikon top real sport cameras only have 20mp in order to shoot 16/14fps? So don't jump on conclusion too soon.

A9 and A9 II have 24mp and very deep 240-RAW buffer (although it's compressed 12-bit RAW that has basically no IQ loss in its applications of sports and wildlife).

For those of us locked into the Sony ecosystem (gone a bit wild buying lenses) I guess what Sony has to offer will make us happy.

I am truly enjoying my Sony system and generating photos, unlike someone who don't own either system and unlikely will even buy this R5, that is hilarious.

And happily Sony does NOT stop innovation now that they get the competition they have been looking for the last five years - the race us on, good for us all.

We can sure about. Sony has technology, Canon and Nikon don't have yet such as stacked-sensor. I am sure Sony is working on A9 III and A7r V.

There are lots of hype in this R5 camera that we only know after it's actually released and tested. Hope Canon will not let its customers down another time.

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +15 more
MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 4,642
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?

SQLGuy wrote:

tqlla wrote:

MILC man wrote:

tqlla wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

tqlla wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

you guys crack me up - they say that the Rats are first to abandon a sinking ship

all Canon had to do is announce a camera that's more advanced than anything Sony is offing now and you are gone …………………..

I agree that its just specs on paper and I would need to see how it performs.

But I dont see any reason to be loyal to E-mount, when Sony has put hurdles in the way of switching(3FPS, CDAF only video, locked focus modes and areas). If Sony doesnt want me as an E-mount customer, then why should I have any loyalty to them?

The LA-EA3($180) performs worse than the Sigma MC-11, and the LA-EA4($300) is using AF from 2010. On the other hand Canon has native like performance with their adapter, and their adapter($99) is usually included free.

To be fair, to a degree you can't expect Sony to fully support A mount through E mount forever.

When did they ever fully support A-mount to E-mount transition? The MC-11 and Metabones dont have the limitations that the Sony adapters do.

yes, they do have the same limitations as a-mount, since they both emulate laea3 functionality with non-sigma lenses.

The Metabones iv and v can shoot at 10FPS on the A7iii.

only with certain lenses... for the rest, it's "Max 3fps with A7III", read the product page, it's loaded with caveats with the two different modes, it doesn't always emulate native e-mount.

the mc-11 can do 10fps on the a7iii with compatible sigma glass, it's fully compatible.

I am pretty sure the LAEA3 cannot do that.

it can on the a9, and it's every bit as good as the mc-11, if the lens is capable of equal performance.

I have also watched metabones adapted video Continuous AF, while slow, its still way better than not being able to do continuous AF at all.

Correct. And the MC-11 with Sigma GV lenses emulates native, which I think is what Metabones does. I don't have a Metabones but get much better than LA-EA3 performance and functionality with the MC-11 and Sigma 100-400 and 70-200.

you are on an a7rii, the third-gen bodies are much better with adapters, and sigma lenses are generally newer designs than the old a-mount glass.

On the other hand, I just watched a review comparing AF hit rates with several lenses and the EOS R vs. 6DII. Canon's adapted performance isn't perfect either. Some lenses, like the 85/1.2L, did a lot worse on the R.

sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 18,636
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?
8

PWPhotography wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

I will be switching for sure, I just wanted an Eos R with ibis, so this one is even too much for me. Let’s see how The R6 is, or I will just wait one year for the price to go a bit down and more lenses (let’s see if samyang releases my 85 1.4 for the RF mount) come to the system.

*joke alert* *joke alert*

But who will complain about Sony skin tones when you move to the EOSR forum? We have lost GrapeJam already...:)

On a more serious note I cant see any third party AF lenses coming out for a long time - but who knows?

The temporary workaround for third parties is to make the lenses look like adapted EF glass. They will lose HSD and probably the more intricate IS + IBIS functionality but outside of that they get everything. Native grade video AF and very usable continuous shooting AF- a huge contrast from adapting on most Sony bodies. It's really nice to be able to grab a ~$700 2.8 tele zoom and actually track action with it.

Try to adapt any Canon super-tele lenses on EOS R

I've already adapted the EF 70-200 2.8 III on the R, and it works well. MUCH better than any adapted teles did on LA-EA3 style Sony adapters.

or wait to see R5 and how it works in fast moving subjects in sport and wildlife, good luck Otherwise why Canon even needs to develop 1Dx III?

To give Canon users more choices? The big irony in you bringing up pros is they don't chase specs and newness like you do. There are pros still making money with 1, 2, 3 generation old pro bodies. They go with what works. All the companies know this, which is why their pro cameras don't change much generation to generation. Even Sony didn't mess with the A9 too much.

The more interesting camera to me is the R6- basically looks like a real answer to the A7III based on the rumors. I just got my R and am happy with it though so no big rush.

R6, another vaporware? So far only heard much hyped R5.

Nothing is as hyped as Sony The same sources that reported the R5 before this press release are reporting the R6 and a high resolution RF body too.

-- hide signature --

Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/

 sportyaccordy's gear list:sportyaccordy's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EF 135mm F2.8 SF Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro +1 more
sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 18,636
Re: bleeding or not - the market is shrinking
1

joger wrote:

In short - I expect the pricing level of the R5 to be at least at the level of the A9 II or above. This is a niche of a niche market.

This reminds me of when you said the A7III was a stupid concept and that Sony would never do it, only looking to focus on something like an A9R instead. This was 2 or so years ago?

Canon knows what's at stake here. They peeled a lot of Sony people away with the deep holiday discounts last year. They also know someone who buys a camera like this is probably going to spend 1-3x as much on glass, where they are not as aggressive on pricing (and prob have a good bit of margin). Plus there is precedent for pricing on bodies like this. D850, Z7, A7R4, S1R, all around $3400 at launch. If this thing costs more than $4K I will be shocked. I think Canon saw what happened with the R and 6D2 and doesn't want that to happen again. They would rather peel more customers from competitors and make up margin on glass than scare buyers off with sticker shock.

It is telling that you think this camera is worth 1DX money But Canon won't do that; I am pretty sure they know better. They have been in the back seat on innovation and probably want to recapture the crown once again, and show that high tech doesn't have to come with the sacrifice of bad ergonomics and inconsistent lens quality/value.

-- hide signature --

Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/

 sportyaccordy's gear list:sportyaccordy's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EF 135mm F2.8 SF Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro +1 more
sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 18,636
Re: Not competition to A9/A9II
8

The Davinator wrote:

This announcement from Canon has sure triggered some Sony users to go on uber defensive mode.

Can't wait to see what happens when the cameras actually arrive.

-- hide signature --

Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/

 sportyaccordy's gear list:sportyaccordy's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EF 135mm F2.8 SF Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | A Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro +1 more
PWPhotography Forum Pro • Posts: 10,876
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?
1

sportyaccordy wrote:

PWPhotography wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

I will be switching for sure, I just wanted an Eos R with ibis, so this one is even too much for me. Let’s see how The R6 is, or I will just wait one year for the price to go a bit down and more lenses (let’s see if samyang releases my 85 1.4 for the RF mount) come to the system.

*joke alert* *joke alert*

But who will complain about Sony skin tones when you move to the EOSR forum? We have lost GrapeJam already...:)

On a more serious note I cant see any third party AF lenses coming out for a long time - but who knows?

The temporary workaround for third parties is to make the lenses look like adapted EF glass. They will lose HSD and probably the more intricate IS + IBIS functionality but outside of that they get everything. Native grade video AF and very usable continuous shooting AF- a huge contrast from adapting on most Sony bodies. It's really nice to be able to grab a ~$700 2.8 tele zoom and actually track action with it.

Try to adapt any Canon super-tele lenses on EOS R

I've already adapted the EF 70-200 2.8 III on the R, and it works well. MUCH better than any adapted teles did on LA-EA3 style Sony adapters.

How well, in static AF-S? How many Canon sport PJs shooting adapted long lenses on EOS R? Zero, basically. FE 70-200 GM on A7r IV or A9 beat your set out of water in AF-C tracking.

That is not even a super-tele lens. Try 400L/2.8 IS III, 500L/4.0 IS II and 600L/4.0 IS III adapted on EOS-R in sport and fast BIF.

or wait to see R5 and how it works in fast moving subjects in sport and wildlife, good luck Otherwise why Canon even needs to develop 1Dx III?

To give Canon users more choices? The big irony in you bringing up pros is they don't chase specs and newness like you do. There are pros still making money with 1, 2, 3 generation old pro bodies. They go with what works. All the companies know this, which is why their pro cameras don't change much generation to generation. Even Sony didn't mess with the A9 too much.

The same Canon and Nikon stay in their comfortable DSLR formula, 1Dx III and D6. Don't think this R5 can compete to 1Dx III, D6 and A9/II, wait and see if it even can compete to A7r IV?

The more interesting camera to me is the R6- basically looks like a real answer to the A7III based on the rumors. I just got my R and am happy with it though so no big rush.

R6, another vaporware? So far only heard much hyped R5.

Nothing is as hyped as Sony The same sources that reported the R5 before this press release are reporting the R6 and a high resolution RF body too.

Sony is hailed with so many innovations in last several years, as also said by DPR. As a matter of fact I have purchased so many Sony bodies and lenses in last 5 years, virtually zero on Canon gear (except two Canon refurbished EF lenses that I sold later and replaced by Sony counterparts).

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +15 more
PWPhotography Forum Pro • Posts: 10,876
Re: Not competition to A9/A9II
1

sportyaccordy wrote:

The Davinator wrote:

This announcement from Canon has sure triggered some Sony users to go on uber defensive mode.

Can't wait to see what happens when the cameras actually arrive.

Hope Canon makes a big push this time, or a good chance it will let Canon lovers disappointed again

Are  you going to buy this R5 when it's released?  Wait to hear your experience, or what you are exciting about?   This is not a zero-sum game that Canon gain turns to Sony loss.  Hope you don't want Sony loss either, right?  Competition only benefits everyone, unless you were Canon CEO.

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +15 more
tqlla Veteran Member • Posts: 6,119
Re: Canon R5 - 8 k & 20 fps camera - there we go - or not?
1

MILC man wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

tqlla wrote:

MILC man wrote:

tqlla wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

To be fair, to a degree you can't expect Sony to fully support A mount through E mount forever.

When did they ever fully support A-mount to E-mount transition? The MC-11 and Metabones dont have the limitations that the Sony adapters do.

yes, they do have the same limitations as a-mount, since they both emulate laea3 functionality with non-sigma lenses.

The Metabones iv and v can shoot at 10FPS on the A7iii.

only with certain lenses... for the rest, it's "Max 3fps with A7III", read the product page, it's loaded with caveats with the two different modes, it doesn't always emulate native e-mount.

the mc-11 can do 10fps on the a7iii with compatible sigma glass, it's fully compatible.

I am pretty sure the LAEA3 cannot do that.

it can on the a9, and it's every bit as good as the mc-11, if the lens is capable of equal performance.

Yeah, thats pretty shady that Sony only allows the 10FPS with the LA-EA3 to only the A9 series.

These are the lenses on Metabones website that are confirmed to do 10FPS AFC on the A7iii/A7riv. Its a pretty big list.

Canon EF8-15mm f/4L USM Fisheye*
Canon EF-S10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM*
Canon EF17-35mm f/2.8L USM
Canon EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
Canon EF-S18-55/3.5-5.6 IS II*
Canon EF-S18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Nano USM*
Canon EF-S18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM*
Canon EF24-70mm f/2.8L II USM*
Canon EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM (Mark I)
Canon EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 III USM
Canon EF28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 II
Canon EF40mm f/2.8 STM*
Canon EF50mm f/1.2L USM
Canon EF50mm f/1.4 USM (1993)
Canon EF50mm f/1.8 STM*
Canon EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM*
Canon EF70-200mm f/4L IS II USM*
Canon EF70-200mm f/4L USM (not IS)
Canon EF70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM*
Canon EF85mm f/1.2L II USM
Canon EF100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro*
Canon EF100mm f/2.8 USM Macro (2000)
Canon EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM*
Canon EF135mm f/2L USM
Canon EF200mm f/2.8L II USM
Canon EF300mm f/2.8L IS II USM*
Canon EF300mm f/4L IS USM
Canon EF400mm f/5.6L USM
Canon EF Extender 1.4x (all versions)
Canon EF Extender 2x (all versions)
Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 1.4x (note 1)
Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 2x (note 1)
Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art 013
Sigma 18-125mm f/3.8-5.6 DC OS HSM
Sigma 24-105mm f/4 DG OS HSM Art 013
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DC HSM Art 013
Sigma 50-100mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art 016*
Sigma 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM
Sigma 135mm f/1.8 DG HSM Art 017
Tamron 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 VC HLD B023*
Tamron 15-30mm f/2.8 VC USD A012 (G1)
Tamron 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3 Di II VC PZD B008
Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 VC USD A007 (G1)
Tamron SP 45mm f/1.8 VC USD F013*
Tamron SP 70-300mm f/4-5.6 VC USD A005
Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 DX ATX Pro

 tqlla's gear list:tqlla's gear list
Sony RX1R II Sony a7R III Sony 135mm F1.8 ZA Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sigma 24-70 F2.8 DG DN
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads