Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 6,330
Re: Where have you been? :-)
5

Harold66 wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

No. I mean if you wish to do a head to toe shot of someone and lose the background then 90mm f2.4, which in EFL terms is what a 45mm f1.2 is equivalent to, is not really fast enough.
I used to use, on FF, a 105mm f2, and that wasn't quite fast enough either. But it's faster.
I'm not suggesting this is crippling, throw your MFT kit in the bin etc. But if the choice is 45 f1.4 or 45 f1.2, and the 1.2 is a bit bigger, a bit more expensive, and a bit softer wide open, I'm still going to pick it.
Although actually I use a 75mm f1.8 and stand back. Here is the entry pupil (effectively the shallowness) of each of the lenses under discussion.
75mm f1.8 42 What I use, not that expensive, but needs space.
45mm f1.4 32 What Harold is suggesting.
45mm f1.2 38 What Oly make and what I would like, but don't need enough to pay for.
45mm f1.8 25 What may of us actually have. It's fine for head shots. Also cheap.
105mm f2 53 What I used to use on FF
85mm f1.2 71 The fastest generally available on FF.

Harold66 wrote:

No idea what this means. I assume this is some kind of ironic reply

Thanks for the attempt at an explanation but now I am even more confused than before. What i find extremely confusing is your use of the word fast ‘ an olympus 1.2 / 45 maybe the equivalent of a 2.4/90mm 35mm lens in terms of efl and dof but not in terms of fast . Exposure wise f1.2 never equals f2.4 regardless of the format

maybe you mean something else in terms of fastness but i have no clue to what this post means

Why do you think a lens is referred to as "fast"?  It's because a larger aperture allows you to use a faster shutter speed and still get the same exposure.  F/1.2 never equals F/2.4 if you're talking exposure and shutter speed.  If you're talking about total light gathering ability then they might be equal, but that's a can of worms you don't want to open right now.

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Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,126
Re: Where have you been? :-)

Mark Ransom wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

No. I mean if you wish to do a head to toe shot of someone and lose the background then 90mm f2.4, which in EFL terms is what a 45mm f1.2 is equivalent to, is not really fast enough.
I used to use, on FF, a 105mm f2, and that wasn't quite fast enough either. But it's faster.
I'm not suggesting this is crippling, throw your MFT kit in the bin etc. But if the choice is 45 f1.4 or 45 f1.2, and the 1.2 is a bit bigger, a bit more expensive, and a bit softer wide open, I'm still going to pick it.
Although actually I use a 75mm f1.8 and stand back. Here is the entry pupil (effectively the shallowness) of each of the lenses under discussion.
75mm f1.8 42 What I use, not that expensive, but needs space.
45mm f1.4 32 What Harold is suggesting.
45mm f1.2 38 What Oly make and what I would like, but don't need enough to pay for.
45mm f1.8 25 What may of us actually have. It's fine for head shots. Also cheap.
105mm f2 53 What I used to use on FF
85mm f1.2 71 The fastest generally available on FF.

Harold66 wrote:

No idea what this means. I assume this is some kind of ironic reply

Thanks for the attempt at an explanation but now I am even more confused than before. What i find extremely confusing is your use of the word fast ‘ an olympus 1.2 / 45 maybe the equivalent of a 2.4/90mm 35mm lens in terms of efl and dof but not in terms of fast . Exposure wise f1.2 never equals f2.4 regardless of the format

maybe you mean something else in terms of fastness but i have no clue to what this post means

Why do you think a lens is referred to as "fast"? It's because a larger aperture allows you to use a faster shutter speed and still get the same exposure. F/1.2 never equals F/2.4 if you're talking exposure and shutter speed.

Exactly. As i wrote i just do not understand the phrasing of Louis’ post

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nigelbb Contributing Member • Posts: 649
Re: Psssst.....Ben......
1

mring1 wrote:

(in whispered voice) buy a gently used M1 Mk II. $900 bucks!! Screaming deal. And everyone outside the m4/3s ecosystem loves it as a small (yeah, seriously) camera!

Don't tell anyone I told you...

I agree. I bought a used E-M1 II in great condition for £800 when Olympus brought out the 3.0 firmware update. The marginal improvements of the E-M1 III offer no incentive for me to buy. It's not like the major upgrade from the E-M1 I to E-M1 II. This is more of an E-M1 IIA.

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Louis_Dobson
OP Louis_Dobson Forum Pro • Posts: 27,536
Re: Where have you been? :-)
1

I suspect you both of being difficult, but if you like you can say "shallow DoF".

Harold66 wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

Harold66 wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

No. I mean if you wish to do a head to toe shot of someone and lose the background then 90mm f2.4, which in EFL terms is what a 45mm f1.2 is equivalent to, is not really fast enough.
I used to use, on FF, a 105mm f2, and that wasn't quite fast enough either. But it's faster.
I'm not suggesting this is crippling, throw your MFT kit in the bin etc. But if the choice is 45 f1.4 or 45 f1.2, and the 1.2 is a bit bigger, a bit more expensive, and a bit softer wide open, I'm still going to pick it.
Although actually I use a 75mm f1.8 and stand back. Here is the entry pupil (effectively the shallowness) of each of the lenses under discussion.
75mm f1.8 42 What I use, not that expensive, but needs space.
45mm f1.4 32 What Harold is suggesting.
45mm f1.2 38 What Oly make and what I would like, but don't need enough to pay for.
45mm f1.8 25 What may of us actually have. It's fine for head shots. Also cheap.
105mm f2 53 What I used to use on FF
85mm f1.2 71 The fastest generally available on FF.

Harold66 wrote:

No idea what this means. I assume this is some kind of ironic reply

Thanks for the attempt at an explanation but now I am even more confused than before. What i find extremely confusing is your use of the word fast ‘ an olympus 1.2 / 45 maybe the equivalent of a 2.4/90mm 35mm lens in terms of efl and dof but not in terms of fast . Exposure wise f1.2 never equals f2.4 regardless of the format

maybe you mean something else in terms of fastness but i have no clue to what this post means

Why do you think a lens is referred to as "fast"? It's because a larger aperture allows you to use a faster shutter speed and still get the same exposure. F/1.2 never equals F/2.4 if you're talking exposure and shutter speed.

Exactly. As i wrote i just do not understand the phrasing of Louis’ post

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Louis_Dobson
OP Louis_Dobson Forum Pro • Posts: 27,536
Re: Psssst.....Ben......

nigelbb wrote:

mring1 wrote:

(in whispered voice) buy a gently used M1 Mk II. $900 bucks!! Screaming deal. And everyone outside the m4/3s ecosystem loves it as a small (yeah, seriously) camera!

Don't tell anyone I told you...

I agree. I bought a used E-M1 II in great condition for £800 when Olympus brought out the 3.0 firmware update. The marginal improvements of the E-M1 III offer no incentive for me to buy. It's not like the major upgrade from the E-M1 I to E-M1 II. This is more of an E-M1 IIA.

For me it's the reverse. I never upgraded from the mk1 to the mk2 because the changes were of no interest to me. I can't wait for the mk3 though.

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Ben Herrmann
Ben Herrmann Forum Pro • Posts: 21,034
Re: Psssst.....Ben......

I need another camera like I need a hole in the head.  And besides, if I were to get another camera in the near future, it would be within the Fuji line - my favorite system of them all.  Right now, I'm using the following and eventually I will have to cut down (meaning sell off) even further:

M43:    E-M5, E-M10 Mk II, E-P5, Pen-F

FUJI:  X30, X-A5, X-T100, X-E2s, X-E3, X-T20, X-T2, and the X-H1

CANON EOS M:   EOS M, EOS M2, EOS M6, EOS M50

SAMSUNG NX:  NX500, NX30, and NX Mini

PANASONIC:  FZ1000

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Sam Bennett
Sam Bennett Veteran Member • Posts: 4,548
I eventually decided to buy, this is why...

I've been hemming and hawing over whether to go to the E-M1X and now the E-M1 Mark III for a while now, and have been seriously considering moving to Sony. After a lot of consideration, I'm sticking to MFT for now, for the following reasons...

  1. I love my Olympus glass - the 40-150/2.8 is hands down the most satisfying lens I've ever owned. Excellent image quality, excellent build quality, relatively compact size and fast aperture are things you can find in other lenses - but all of that with the 80-300mm equivalent range simply does not exist in the Full Frame world. 
  2. I love the Olympus ergonomics - the grips and layout are perfect for my hands (Sony is too chunky)
  3. I love Olympus' WiFi approach - being able to tag individual photos for "Share Order" throughout a shoot for later transfer is perfect (although I wish they still automatically reset the order and shut off the camera as they did in the past)
  4. I love Olympus' IBIS
  5. I love Olympus' no-excuses weather sealing and the freedom to shoot in any conditions that come my way

I've been shooting with a pair of E-M1s for about 7 years now. I originally delayed going to the E-M1 Mark II because I hated the articulating screen (which I still hate, after using the PEN-F for the last year or so), but at this point I can't ignore the limitations of the E-M1 AF in very specific situations - trying to use C-AF with Tracking with the Silent Shutter mode in low light - it just doesn't work, and I really need it in some situations. I've also found the slow readout of the silent shutter to be problematic for some of my work as well, so confident the Mark III will work around that problem.

All that said, I'm not going all-in with Olympus. I'm buying one E-M1 Mark III for now. If it solves my particular AF problems then I'll likely buy an E-M1X or another Mark III. If it doesn't, then I'll likely evaluate the Sony A9 and go from there.

The Bottom Line: I'm simply not convinced that Olympus and MFT has a future. Sony is being so much more aggressive in introducing new models, and they're being smart about it - right now, you've got three models that all serve a slightly different purpose, but they all use the same batteries, have nearly identical ergonomics and can even share the same battery grip! You need a super-high resolution body for studio or landscape work? Sony's got you covered. You need a super-fast (and completely silent) sports camera with top-of-the line AF? Sony's got you covered. Need a couple low-cost, highly-competent bodies as secondary bodies or backups? Sony's got you covered. If they keep developing their lens lineup, or Sigma or other 3rd parties start filling in the blanks then it's going to be impossible to not be tempted over to the Sony camp.

The bigger problem is that all of that is from the perspective of a current Olympus user and lover. How on Earth with Olympus tempt new users to this format with the kind of competition they have with the lineup they have? Ultimately that is what is going to give Olympus a future or not, and that's what scares me.

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Mark Ransom
Mark Ransom Veteran Member • Posts: 6,330
Re: Where have you been? :-)
2

Louis_Dobson wrote:

I suspect you both of being difficult, but if you like you can say "shallow DoF".

If that's what you mean, then that's what you should say.  I've never used "fast" as a synonym for "shallow DOF".

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VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,931
You will be so happy with the XT-4

I can imagine the Fuji forum can't wait to get you over there.... 

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TorsteinH
TorsteinH Senior Member • Posts: 1,211
Re: Where have you been? :-)

Louis_Dobson wrote:

No. I mean if you wish to do a head to toe shot of someone and lose the background then 90mm f2.4, which in EFL terms is what a 45mm f1.2 is equivalent to, is not really fast enough.
I used to use, on FF, a 105mm f2, and that wasn't quite fast enough either. But it's faster.
I'm not suggesting this is crippling, throw your MFT kit in the bin etc. But if the choice is 45 f1.4 or 45 f1.2, and the 1.2 is a bit bigger, a bit more expensive, and a bit softer wide open, I'm still going to pick it.
Although actually I use a 75mm f1.8 and stand back. Here is the entry pupil (effectively the shallowness) of each of the lenses under discussion.
75mm f1.8 42 What I use, not that expensive, but needs space.
45mm f1.4 32 What Harold is suggesting.
45mm f1.2 38 What Oly make and what I would like, but don't need enough to pay for.
45mm f1.8 25 What may of us actually have. It's fine for head shots. Also cheap.
105mm f2 53 What I used to use on FF
85mm f1.2 71 The fastest generally available on FF.

Harold66 wrote:

No idea what this means. I assume this is some kind of ironic reply

Perhaps the sigma 56mm is close to your old Nikon(?) 105.

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Torstein

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petreluk Senior Member • Posts: 1,536
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...

The reception for the E-M 1 Mark III doesn’t strike me as any more hostile than usual , probably less so. The main grumbles seem to be with the EVF and the reuse of the 20mpx sensor. Otherwise it seems to be regarded as an astute mix of features, essentially a miniaturised E-M1X. The asking price is also less than many were expecting. In this regard the reception has been quite positive, in fact.

I think where the pressure comes in is that M43 cameras are facing more and more competitive pressures as the big three outfits - Canon, Nikon and Sony - ramp up their mirrorless offerings and as Fuji corrects long-running deficiencies that have kept people away from the brand, like no IBIS. It is the competitive pressure and nothing else that is going to be the big challenge for M43. Keeping up with larger and better-funded competitors is really tough but that’s what Olympus seem to be looking at. The future looks pretty tricky TBH. I don’t need to upgrade for at least a couple of years but when I do it won’t be with Oly if a by-then venerable 20mpx sensor and basic EVF are still the only offer. Competition doesn’t stand still.

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Harold66
Harold66 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,126
Re: Where have you been? :-)

Mark Ransom wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

I suspect you both of being difficult, but if you like you can say "shallow DoF".

If that's what you mean, then that's what you should say. I've never used "fast" as a synonym for "shallow DOF".

Yes me neither. These are very different words . Now it makes more sense

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Louis_Dobson
OP Louis_Dobson Forum Pro • Posts: 27,536
Re: Where have you been? :-)

Yes, the 56 1.4 seems well worth a look.

TorsteinH wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

No. I mean if you wish to do a head to toe shot of someone and lose the background then 90mm f2.4, which in EFL terms is what a 45mm f1.2 is equivalent to, is not really fast enough.
I used to use, on FF, a 105mm f2, and that wasn't quite fast enough either. But it's faster.
I'm not suggesting this is crippling, throw your MFT kit in the bin etc. But if the choice is 45 f1.4 or 45 f1.2, and the 1.2 is a bit bigger, a bit more expensive, and a bit softer wide open, I'm still going to pick it.
Although actually I use a 75mm f1.8 and stand back. Here is the entry pupil (effectively the shallowness) of each of the lenses under discussion.
75mm f1.8 42 What I use, not that expensive, but needs space.
45mm f1.4 32 What Harold is suggesting.
45mm f1.2 38 What Oly make and what I would like, but don't need enough to pay for.
45mm f1.8 25 What may of us actually have. It's fine for head shots. Also cheap.
105mm f2 53 What I used to use on FF
85mm f1.2 71 The fastest generally available on FF.

Harold66 wrote:

No idea what this means. I assume this is some kind of ironic reply

Perhaps the sigma 56mm is close to your old Nikon(?) 105.

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cameron2 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,631
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...

Louis_Dobson wrote:

I wanted hand held high res, virtual ND, a joystick for focus points, and better integration with FT (not MFT) lenses, eye detection on or off on a button.

Score!

I'm delighted.

I do dog shots as part of my job, and fine art seascapes as a hobby.

Grumbles with previous Olys, too slow to change focus points, eye detection too slow to switch on and off, can't get high res without tripod (which defeats the point of a lightweight system), can't get ND filters on the UWA.

All sorted!

I can mix it with light primes for the dog stuff and general photography, and the waterproof pro FT lenses for seascapes.

Long time since I bought a camera at launch, but here we go...

Grumbles? Can't have virtual ND and HHHR at the same time, but you can't have everything.
Just one thing - it will be batch made, so if no one likes it the price could drop quite fast, on that basis I should wait.

There's only 2 things that it's missing:

1) The flip-up EVF that the Pany GX8 has

2) The size and weight of the Pany GM5

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macautio Contributing Member • Posts: 536
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...

Cannot use screen here to Finland winter with gloves.

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markku

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Adrian Harris
Adrian Harris Veteran Member • Posts: 5,691
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...
5

Reception for the new canons and Nikon's looking even worse. Makes you wonder whether anything would make some people happy!

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valsan Contributing Member • Posts: 664
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...
1

Adrian Harris wrote:

Reception for the new canons and Nikon's looking even worse. Makes you wonder whether anything would make some people happy!

Same with sony a6600 and fuji xpro3

paul cool
paul cool Senior Member • Posts: 2,500
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...

valsan wrote:

Adrian Harris wrote:

Reception for the new canons and Nikon's looking even worse. Makes you wonder whether anything would make some people happy!

Same with sony a6600 and fuji xpro3

at the price not surprised ,not what you call value ,give them a year they will all be priced at a thousand pounds .

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nigelbb Contributing Member • Posts: 649
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...
3

They missed out one feature from the E-M1X that might have tempted me to buy & that is the GPS module. Why is it that cheap P&S cameras can have a GPS module but not a premium DSLR?

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Louis_Dobson
OP Louis_Dobson Forum Pro • Posts: 27,536
Re: Reception for the 1.3 looks pretty hostile...
1

nigelbb wrote:

They missed out one feature from the E-M1X that might have tempted me to buy & that is the GPS module. Why is it that cheap P&S cameras can have a GPS module but not a premium DSLR?

I agree it's annoying.

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