EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try

Started 1 month ago | Discussions
Searching Veteran Member • Posts: 3,728
Re: the "new sensor" fallacy
3

Astrotripper wrote:

The "it's not a new" sensor complaint is a load of nonsense.

Sure, 10 years ago it was a big deal, as there were noticeable quality improvements with each sensor generation.

That is no longer true. It's not true for 4/3, APS-C nor FF. It seems there are only two areas of sensor improvement:

  • pixel count
  • speed

The 20mp sensor from E-M1 Mark II is still one of the fastest, if not the fastest on the market. The one in A9 is faster only in specific shooting mode, where it uses its special readout mode, otherwise it is slower. The fastest APS-C sensor is the one in Fuji, I think, but it's also not as fast as this.

So you still get the best 4/3 sensor there is.

It doesn't have 40mp? Well, it's an action shooting camera, expecting it to have 40mp sensor is not exactly realistic. It can take 50mp photos with DR and noise levels of best FF cameras, though.

What do you think a "new sensor" would offer you? Deny physics and suddenly you'd get 2 more stops of DR and lower noise?

Let's face the facts here. The only way to get a meaningful improvement in image quality is to jump to a larger format. Preferably by 2 sizes as anything less would be pretty insignificant.

Am I saying that a new sensor would not be nice? No. But for a new sensor to be a reasonable upgrade, it would have to:

  • be a lot faster, perhaps global shutter - looks like there has been no big improvements on this front seeing how the 20mp sensor from 2016 is still the king in this regard. So I would not expect this anytime soon.
  • have a lot more pixels - sorry, but 4 more megapixels is nothing, make it 44 mp and that would be worthwhile. But again, not for this kind of camera. Also, I can already see the whining about having to buy expensive CFExpress cards.

Anything else than the above would be insignificant.

And with camera sales still crashing, cranking out new sensors gets more and more expensive as volume drops. Things will get even slower than they already are. Doesn't matter Canon, Sony, Nikon, Fuji, there will be a lot of sensor reuse going forward.

The fast sensor that you are going on about, doesn't do much for anybody past ISO1600 which by today's standard is a bit old.

 Searching's gear list:Searching's gear list
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jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 5,165
Re: That’s you. Not the market.
5

drj3 wrote:

I am unaware of any better larger cameras for better prices that can easily be carried and used without tripods.

"For the larger cameras, if not already committed to the format, there are better cameras at better prices frankly. "

Well go out there and look at what's available is all I can say.  Lots of cameras now fitting that description.

The camera world is moving forward with larger format mirrorless at a fast pace. m43 is stuck trying to convince people that cameras made using  5 year old parts are 'new'.

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Jonathan

OP mrwho27 Regular Member • Posts: 398
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
1

MrALLCAPS wrote:

https://petapixel.com/2020/02/12/hands-on-with-the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-iii-lots-to-love-some-things-to-question/

Petapixel has a very well written article on the MkIII, but Olympus chimes in on some if his complaints, which isn't cool that they did.

Nice pics too.

Yeah, that review sums it up pretty much for me! I totally see the camera to be a capable camera, it is just that there might have been some (unjustified) expectations on what the camera should/could have been.
I work at a Tech Start up and we know that we are competing with bigger and financially stronger companies. We know we have to deliver our best to survive.
So when I see that Olympus left a lot of critical parts (sensor, EVF, AF-C, etc.) almost untouched, my disappointment supersedes.
But, I also know that a camera is the sum of different features and one should not judge a camera just based on specs. Hence my desire to rent the High-end computer from Sony (A7r IV) and compare it against the small Xbox (EM-1iii)  that claims to provide good enough performance.
I think I had hoped that Olympus will come out with a bang (1/2 stop improved DR&ISO, new EVF and A9-like tracking), so that I couldnt resist but order the camera.
Let's see what the X-T4 and the A7 IV have to offer.
Damn it Olympus, you had a big opportunity...

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Gary from Seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,190
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
12

MrALLCAPS wrote:

mrwho27 wrote:

Hi all,
since 2008 I am shooting with my beloved Nikon D90. Though the camera was true revolution when it came out (and still is to some extend), I have been looking for a significant update over the last years.
In 2015 I tried the Olympus EM-1 Mi. I fell in love with the ergonomics and features but was very disappointed with the image quality (since it fell behind the much older Nikon D90). Then came the EM-1 Mii. At the time I just did not have funds to make a major system switch and just admired the camera from afar.
Then at the end of last year and some pretty incredible prices for the Sony A7r IV, I thought I had finally found a camera to upgrade to. Until I held the camera in store. WHAT HORRIBLE ERGONOMICS!!!
When we first heard rumors about an upcoming EM-1 Miii, I got super excited and thought that THIS IS IT!
Until the specs of the camera became clearer.. I have to say I am quite disappointed that they went with the same old sensor (image processor does not seem to provide any gains either) the same EVF and also did (again) not get close to Sony's AF.
Since a camera is more than its individual specs, I probably will still rent one and compare it against the Sony A7r IV to see what is more important to me:
Absolute Picture Quality or portability and ergonomics.
I also have to say, that this product release by Olympus definitely supports the naysayers that claim that Olympus is shutting down its camera business...

I wouldn't say shutting down, but definitely in reduce costs severely mode.

So Olympus showed their hand with the EM1X, EM5 MkIII and now the EM1 MkIII.

Not a good hand at all, unless your looking thru the eyes of an Olympus faithful. Moving forward, unless they improve specs, it will only look worse, not to mention, what about the competition and their response to this EM1?

What would you know about any of this? You only use Fuji and appear to be afraid of the competition. Paid are you?

 Gary from Seattle's gear list:Gary from Seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 8mm F1.8 Fisheye Pro +1 more
rg548 New Member • Posts: 23
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
2

So go and buy a Nikon d5600, or 7200, fantastic cameras.

I loved my D90, but prefer my Panny G80.

However, the shot quality of any OMD is easily sufficient, just take a look at what Robin Wong can pull out of one.... If it's not good enough, then you are a hard person to please indeed.

George Paulides Senior Member • Posts: 1,259
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try

EZGritz wrote:

Consider the EM-1.2 while they last. Great camera for the money. Save enough to pay for most of the new 12-45 f/4 lens (or some lens). The EM-1.3 has improvements but none that make enough difference for me to upgrade. You get most of it with the Mark II.

Agree. However Olympus is keeping the EM1 MKII in the line up for the foreseeable future. They announced a price drop on this model as well. I would look at that model and use the money saved to buy glass.

Astrotripper Veteran Member • Posts: 7,536
Re: the "new sensor" fallacy
4

Searching wrote:

The fast sensor that you are going on about, doesn't do much for anybody past ISO1600 which by today's standard is a bit old.

And how would a "new sensor" change that? Magic?

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Gary from Seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,190
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
4

jwilliams wrote:

mrwho27 wrote:

Hi all,
since 2008 I am shooting with my beloved Nikon D90. Though the camera was true revolution when it came out (and still is to some extend), I have been looking for a significant update over the last years.
In 2015 I tried the Olympus EM-1 Mi. I fell in love with the ergonomics and features but was very disappointed with the image quality (since it fell behind the much older Nikon D90). Then came the EM-1 Mii. At the time I just did not have funds to make a major system switch and just admired the camera from afar.
Then at the end of last year and some pretty incredible prices for the Sony A7r IV, I thought I had finally found a camera to upgrade to. Until I held the camera in store. WHAT HORRIBLE ERGONOMICS!!!
When we first heard rumors about an upcoming EM-1 Miii, I got super excited and thought that THIS IS IT!
Until the specs of the camera became clearer.. I have to say I am quite disappointed that they went with the same old sensor (image processor does not seem to provide any gains either) the same EVF and also did (again) not get close to Sony's AF.
Since a camera is more than its individual specs, I probably will still rent one and compare it against the Sony A7r IV to see what is more important to me:
Absolute Picture Quality or portability and ergonomics.
I also have to say, that this product release by Olympus definitely supports the naysayers that claim that Olympus is shutting down its camera business...

Honestly I'd not look at m43 if I were you. If the EM1 MKI disappointed you in IQ, you'll find not a huge amount of progress has occurred since then. You have some Nikon lenses, try a Z6 or even a Z50. Canon has some new mirrorless coming out soon. I have the R and love it. The new Canon cameras are rumored to have IBIS which really was the only thing lacking in the lineup. If wanting something smaller/lighter like an EM10 then go ahead with m43. For the larger cameras, if not already committed to the format, there are better cameras at better prices frankly. Excuse me while I put on my flack jacket.

But they all take lenses....I hiked with 5 lenses day before yesterday and got many fantastic images, mostly focus stacked. I bought the EM-1 II recently and one place I see a large amount of improvement is in Focus Stacking. For whatever reason the EM-1 II is vastly superior to the EM-1 I - the images are much better. Of course the other is in birding/wildlife - that is more than obvious to me in focus acquisition. As the cameras evolve their technological capabilities are much better, as is stabilization. Petr demonstrates that clearly in the link in his current thread.

Whether any of this matters to you is an entirely different question.

 Gary from Seattle's gear list:Gary from Seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 8mm F1.8 Fisheye Pro +1 more
Searching Veteran Member • Posts: 3,728
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
1

MrALLCAPS wrote:

https://petapixel.com/2020/02/12/hands-on-with-the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-iii-lots-to-love-some-things-to-question/

Petapixel has a very well written article on the MkIII, but Olympus chimes in on some if his complaints, which isn't cool that they did.

Nice pics too.

Great review and so much of it is true, think about it.  Who wants to go all in on that camera which is way to old.  Olympus now keeps shooting themselves in the foot.  First the EM1-X and now the EM1.3.

 Searching's gear list:Searching's gear list
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Searching Veteran Member • Posts: 3,728
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
1

rg548 wrote:

So go and buy a Nikon d5600, or 7200, fantastic cameras.

I loved my D90, but prefer my Panny G80.

However, the shot quality of any OMD is easily sufficient, just take a look at what Robin Wong can pull out of one.... If it's not good enough, then you are a hard person to please indeed.

Though, you can hardly call Robin Wong unbiased.

 Searching's gear list:Searching's gear list
Olympus E-M1 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm F4-5.6 R +3 more
Gary from Seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,190
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
3

Searching wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

mrwho27 wrote:

Hi all,
since 2008 I am shooting with my beloved Nikon D90. Though the camera was true revolution when it came out (and still is to some extend), I have been looking for a significant update over the last years.
In 2015 I tried the Olympus EM-1 Mi. I fell in love with the ergonomics and features but was very disappointed with the image quality (since it fell behind the much older Nikon D90). Then came the EM-1 Mii. At the time I just did not have funds to make a major system switch and just admired the camera from afar.
Then at the end of last year and some pretty incredible prices for the Sony A7r IV, I thought I had finally found a camera to upgrade to. Until I held the camera in store. WHAT HORRIBLE ERGONOMICS!!!
When we first heard rumors about an upcoming EM-1 Miii, I got super excited and thought that THIS IS IT!
Until the specs of the camera became clearer.. I have to say I am quite disappointed that they went with the same old sensor (image processor does not seem to provide any gains either) the same EVF and also did (again) not get close to Sony's AF.
Since a camera is more than its individual specs, I probably will still rent one and compare it against the Sony A7r IV to see what is more important to me:
Absolute Picture Quality or portability and ergonomics.
I also have to say, that this product release by Olympus definitely supports the naysayers that claim that Olympus is shutting down its camera business...

Honestly I'd not look at m43 if I were you. If the EM1 MKI disappointed you in IQ, you'll find not a huge amount of progress has occurred since then. You have some Nikon lenses, try a Z6 or even a Z50. Canon has some new mirrorless coming out soon. I have the R and love it. The new Canon cameras are rumored to have IBIS which really was the only thing lacking in the lineup. If wanting something smaller/lighter like an EM10 then go ahead with m43. For the larger cameras, if not already committed to the format, there are better cameras at better prices frankly. Excuse me while I put on my flack jacket.

You shouldn't need the flack jacket. What you are saying is quite true and deserves some thought for new buyers. Olympus just doesn't have more capital to invest in a M4/3 market that seems stalled.

I think you are wrong on that. The entire industry is compressing but it is most likely to be true in the lower end cameras. It appears that Olympus is making substantial inroads in wildlife/birding in particular which demand the best lenses. And that includes professionals. We've seen a number of examples of this in the last week.

A poor man's 12-45 and a rebranded EM 1.2 with a few tricks included. Waited four years for that.

 Gary from Seattle's gear list:Gary from Seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 8mm F1.8 Fisheye Pro +1 more
rg548 New Member • Posts: 23
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
3

True, but Im not talking about his write ups.... I'm talking about his pictures.

To my eyes they are very good indeed.

Jorginho Forum Pro • Posts: 15,047
The EVF is seriously a very huge disappointment.
3

I have the Em1.2 and as it is I think that EVF is worse than the one I have in the GH4 (at least optically). The sensor....well I think the sensor is alright. I have little to ask for and handheldhires, for my kind of shooting, seriously diminishes the need for a (much) larger sensor.

The AF+tracking has not been enhanced I have seen in reviews, which is the second thing that in three and a half years time should be a lot better. But as it is nothing much has changed.

The rumours have it that Panasonic si coming with new models this year. Given what we have seen recently (G90 and GX9) we can expect these models to be GH6 and G10. So for the G10 I have my hopes it wil deliver what EM1.3 did not, but then again looking at GX9 and especially G90 I am not so sure.

We have two manufacturers but even that advantage in the end leaves something to be desired lately: both just do not push the limits like some others do. Both seriously lack on some important points compared to the competition...A bit sad.

On the bright side: I have no real need to replace the Em1.2. so I can wait until they get their act together.

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Gary from Seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,190
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
2

MrALLCAPS wrote:

https://petapixel.com/2020/02/12/hands-on-with-the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-mark-iii-lots-to-love-some-things-to-question/

Petapixel has a very well written article on the MkIII, but Olympus chimes in on some if his complaints, which isn't cool that they did.

Nice pics too.

His critique seems good but his editorial on Olympus not investing in the camera is not necessarily grounded, although it is a problem across the industry, not just Olympus. He jumped to a conclusion.

 Gary from Seattle's gear list:Gary from Seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 8mm F1.8 Fisheye Pro +1 more
Gary from Seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 4,190
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
1

Searching wrote:

rg548 wrote:

So go and buy a Nikon d5600, or 7200, fantastic cameras.

I loved my D90, but prefer my Panny G80.

However, the shot quality of any OMD is easily sufficient, just take a look at what Robin Wong can pull out of one.... If it's not good enough, then you are a hard person to please indeed.

Though, you can hardly call Robin Wong unbiased.

No just a great photographer as is Petr Bambousek. Both make there livings selling images....

 Gary from Seattle's gear list:Gary from Seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 8mm F1.8 Fisheye Pro +1 more
unhappymeal Regular Member • Posts: 191
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
3

Olympus is smoking the best of drugs. $2,400 CAD for a camera that is marginally better than its predecessor and its direct competition, the G9, is $1,200 - $1,500 CAD. You can buy into full frame for less than the E-M1 III. I'm genuinely worried about the future of Olympus.

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EZGritz
EZGritz Contributing Member • Posts: 764
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try

Where did you see OLY will sell both EM-1.2 and EM-1.3? Like to read about that.

 EZGritz's gear list:EZGritz's gear list
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MrALLCAPS
MrALLCAPS Senior Member • Posts: 1,286
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
1

Gary from Seattle wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

mrwho27 wrote:

Hi all,
since 2008 I am shooting with my beloved Nikon D90. Though the camera was true revolution when it came out (and still is to some extend), I have been looking for a significant update over the last years.
In 2015 I tried the Olympus EM-1 Mi. I fell in love with the ergonomics and features but was very disappointed with the image quality (since it fell behind the much older Nikon D90). Then came the EM-1 Mii. At the time I just did not have funds to make a major system switch and just admired the camera from afar.
Then at the end of last year and some pretty incredible prices for the Sony A7r IV, I thought I had finally found a camera to upgrade to. Until I held the camera in store. WHAT HORRIBLE ERGONOMICS!!!
When we first heard rumors about an upcoming EM-1 Miii, I got super excited and thought that THIS IS IT!
Until the specs of the camera became clearer.. I have to say I am quite disappointed that they went with the same old sensor (image processor does not seem to provide any gains either) the same EVF and also did (again) not get close to Sony's AF.
Since a camera is more than its individual specs, I probably will still rent one and compare it against the Sony A7r IV to see what is more important to me:
Absolute Picture Quality or portability and ergonomics.
I also have to say, that this product release by Olympus definitely supports the naysayers that claim that Olympus is shutting down its camera business...

I wouldn't say shutting down, but definitely in reduce costs severely mode.

So Olympus showed their hand with the EM1X, EM5 MkIII and now the EM1 MkIII.

Not a good hand at all, unless your looking thru the eyes of an Olympus faithful. Moving forward, unless they improve specs, it will only look worse, not to mention, what about the competition and their response to this EM1?

What would you know about any of this? You only use Fuji and appear to be afraid of the competition. Paid are you?

OH. BOY.

This guy again...

Yup, I'm afraid, Fuji pays me with Diamonds and I'm even scared of Smartwatch cameras and film.

Moving on..  I can't debate or mingle with those of an Insecure mindset.

That's my opinion. If you can't debate it, or come with your own opinion, then act like an adult for once and move on.

Or get blocked, OR block me.

Your choice.

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Nikon Z6 Fujifilm X-E3 Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm X-T1 Fujifilm X-H1
EZGritz
EZGritz Contributing Member • Posts: 764
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
3

He suggested looking at Wong's results. That you can believe.

Look also at http://www.sulasula.com/en/olympus-for-nature-and-wildlife-photography-reasons-to-switch/

These photos aren't good enough?

http://www.sulasula.com/en/olympus-e-m1-mark-iii-in-costa-rica-1/

 EZGritz's gear list:EZGritz's gear list
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Gnine Senior Member • Posts: 1,274
Re: EM-1 Miii: Fairly disappointed, but might still give it a try
11

MrALLCAPS wrote:

Moving on.. I can't debate or mingle with those of an Insecure mindset.

Yet here you are, popping up time and time and time again, at any opportunity to sink the boots into m4/3. Time to get a life boy. Run along and find something else to amuse your narrow mind.

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