Low-light city landscape photo problems

Hey guys, I like to shoot after sunset, usually +1h max. I tried to capture the details of night city, but i think i failed. Apart from my mistakes, what can i upgrade to get better results with X-T3 sensor?

btw. XF 50-140 is out of budget

Regards

StopCzas wrote:

Hey guys, I like to shoot after sunset, usually +1h max. I tried to capture the details of night city, but i think i failed. Apart from my mistakes, what can i upgrade to get better results with X-T3 sensor?

btw. XF 50-140 is out of budget

Regards

At the expense of being rather blunt, you might first look at upgrading your skills and experience a bit before looking for additional gear. The EXIF data suggests that you took this shot at ISO 80, which would incredibly low for such a dark environment. You can shoot as high as ISO 800 or even 1600 with little or no noise to deal with (or certainly nothing that would eliminate any of the detail in your shot). Your image is clearly highly underexposed.

Before looking at different lenses, start by significantly increasing the amount of light in your exposure by increasing your ISO. You should be able to find the right combination of sensitivity (ISO), aperture, and exposure time to give you the result you're looking for. If you're still unable to get a good result, repost your examples and I'm sure there are plenty of very experienced photographers here who would be happy to help.

Longer shutter time,  bracketed exposures if a longer exposure gives you too bright of a sky, higher ISO.  None are new gear related and all capableneith what you have

don't afraid to use higher ISO. I used to be afraid to go high iso due to fear of IQ sacrifice. But with a modern sensor like the one in xt3, the IQ at 1600 or even 3200 is pretty much acceptable for most non-pixel peepers. I might be the odd one because I even found myself go for 12800 for the look

StopCzas wrote:

Hey guys, I like to shoot after sunset, usually +1h max. I tried to capture the details of night city, but i think i failed. Apart from my mistakes, what can i upgrade to get better results with X-T3 sensor?

btw. XF 50-140 is out of budget

Regards

Did you dial in -1 EV on purpose ? Why not leave exposure correction at 0 instead?

If this is a raw file, you could use Fuji X-Raw Studio (or download for free), import the file, change your camera settings on the computer and check what the impact on your picture is... exposure compensation / increase, contrast, dynamic range, colour used...

I think you really underexposed it, like others said, use a higher ISO and short(er) exposure time or an even longer exposure. Maybe one hour after sunset was a bit late, too...

One upgrade idea: a cable release - costs nothing, you can determine the exposure time as you think it should be and you can make as many shots as you want with digital (well, until it's fully dark anyway).

I agree with everything stated before me.  The use of very long exposures is usually to smooth things such as moving water or smear clouds.  Your shutter speed was too slow smear the clouds and long enough to demonstrate that you have a support issue.  There is a decent amount of vertical camera shake visible and a small amount of horizontal shake.  Your tripod and/or head were not up to the task.  You can test your tripod and head by doing the following:

Mount your camera with the same lens you used.  Lock down the head and press down on the front of your lens or lens hood till you become concerned that you are about to break something.  Then quickly let go.  The camera should snap up and stop.  If there is any vibration at all, there is a support issue.  You will need to use trial and error to determine which component(s) are causing the issue.  Support is an area where many beginners try and save money and the result is all too frequently "buy cheap, buy twice!"

If you are not sure which component is causing the support issue, check reviews and look for the complaints.

Morris

Your shot was underexposed. Why did you dial in -1 EC?

1LyRa wrote:

StopCzas wrote:

Hey guys, I like to shoot after sunset, usually +1h max. I tried to capture the details of night city, but i think i failed. Apart from my mistakes, what can i upgrade to get better results with X-T3 sensor?

btw. XF 50-140 is out of budget

Regards

Can't see nothing wrong with your picture. I think it's a great capture of night city atmosphere. And can't agree with Jerry-astro, it's night city, it's supposed to be dark and underexposed, in my opinion.
Why do you think you have failed?

Well that's the beauty of our hobby.  It's all about how the photographer wants to interpret the scene.  If that's the exposure you'd look for, then you're basically done and have the result you want. Clearly the OP isn't happy with the result and asked for help from the forum to "capture the details of the night city."  With that exposure, I'm afraid there aren't much in the way of details to see.  The point is, if the OP desires a brighter look, then some simple changes in one or more of the "exposure triangle" settings would get the job done.  if it were your shot... well, no further work required... great!

Personally, I find brighter and more vibrant night shots far more interesting, hence the advice I offered.  If the OP was happy with the shot, he probably wouldn't have posted this request in the first place.

biza43 wrote:

Your shot was underexposed. Why did you dial in -1 EC?

Curious, also. In post the shadows (blacks) can be lifted which could save the picture. You can also open the converted raw file . . . if you shot in raw. As jerry said, better to do some reading.

StopCzas wrote:

Hello, thank you very much for all the advice. As I read all your comments, I immediately realize my mistakes.

-1EV was not intentional, i used "C" function on dial. There was a strong wind and this shot was one of few other attempts. I set such a low ISO thinking that I would get the best quality image, but with windy conditions, long shutter time and a light tripod (Manfrotto Traveler) it was a big mistake. In addition, the lens is very light, which makes it susceptible to wind

I`m using Capture 1 for processing(RAW). I like dark frames with the glow from the lights - this is probably what i miss the most and maybe more details in more visible scene. Some sliders and local adjustments were able to pull out some of the lights.I didn't calibrate the monitor, but I noticed that most people judge my frames as too dark, I have to look at it.

Publishing a photo in this forum was a very good idea, I have not encountered such constructive criticism for a long time, for which I thank you. I I will take your advice and try some new shots and come back here for sure.

Regards,

I

It’s worth noting that with modern sensors, you should be able to push ISO easily to 1600 with little worry about noise or loss of detail.  If you’re still concerned, try ISO 800.  Either way, you should be able to use a far more manageable exposure time.

If you’re still a bit uncomfortable, next time out try ISO bracketing by shooting the same shot (obviously with different exposure times) at ISO 400, 800, and 1600 and compare the results.  I think you’ll be surprised at how clean all the images will be.  At those settings, what little noise you might encounter should be easily manageable in post with little or no loss of detail.

StopCzas wrote:

Hello, thank you very much for all the advice. As I read all your comments, I immediately realize my mistakes.

-1EV was not intentional, i used "C" function on dial. There was a strong wind and this shot was one of few other attempts. I set such a low ISO thinking that I would get the best quality image, but with windy conditions, long shutter time and a light tripod (Manfrotto Traveler) it was a big mistake. In addition, the lens is very light, which makes it susceptible to wind

I`m using Capture 1 for processing(RAW). I like dark frames with the glow from the lights - this is probably what i miss the most and maybe more details in more visible scene. Some sliders and local adjustments were able to pull out some of the lights.I didn't calibrate the monitor, but I noticed that most people judge my frames as too dark, I have to look at it.

Publishing a photo in this forum was a very good idea, I have not encountered such constructive criticism for a long time, for which I thank you. I I will take your advice and try some new shots and come back here for sure.

Regards,

I

In my view, you should avoid non-native ISOs unless you really need a longer exposure to blur motion. (or in the opposite cases with higher-than-native ISOs, a faster exposure in ultra-low-light conditions). So if I were in your shoes, I'd set the ISO to the lowest native (160 on the X-T3).
Additionally, with long lenses the need for solid support is even greater than when using shorter lenses. Don't extend your tripod all the way, place it as low to the ground as possible. Do not extend the slimmest tripod feet sections unless absolutely necessary for getting the shot. Use a remote to release the shutter or the camera timer.
And lastly, make sure you nail the focus (it can be hard to do so with slow lenses the 50-230 but it's not impossible). You can try autofocusing on a bright light (the one in the foreground should be easy for the AF to pick on) but then I'm not sure the background city would be in focus. Switch to MF if needed, zoom in and adjust the focus ring till focus looks good, then shoot away.

Here's a couple of night cityscape shots taken with the 50-230mm lens. Hopefully you don't consider this stealing your thread. Good luck and keep on shooting!

StopCzas wrote:

Hello, thank you very much for all the advice. As I read all your comments, I immediately realize my mistakes.

-1EV was not intentional, i used "C" function on dial. There was a strong wind and this shot was one of few other attempts. I set such a low ISO thinking that I would get the best quality image, but with windy conditions, long shutter time and a light tripod (Manfrotto Traveler) it was a big mistake. In addition, the lens is very light, which makes it susceptible to wind

I`m using Capture 1 for processing(RAW). I like dark frames with the glow from the lights - this is probably what i miss the most and maybe more details in more visible scene. Some sliders and local adjustments were able to pull out some of the lights.I didn't calibrate the monitor, but I noticed that most people judge my frames as too dark, I have to look at it.

Publishing a photo in this forum was a very good idea, I have not encountered such constructive criticism for a long time, for which I thank you. I I will take your advice and try some new shots and come back here for sure.

Regards,

I

Others have given you already great advice. Using Fujifilm camera for low light shots is actually quite easy.  Sensor is quite perfect.  ISO between 180 - 1600 is perfectly usable

You mentioned you use Capture One (?) and that is a great software to adjust low light images.  Dark shadows are easy to work with and noise is easy to remove if needed .

A couple of samples from my favourite test scene - easy to test DR and resolution from kitchen window :

One RAW image - originally perhaps somewhat underexposured and then adjusted in CO

You do not have to use lowest possible ISO - and the quality of ISO values under 180 is not OK - it is "artificial" low setting, not native.  And adjusting RAW files can be eye opening ...

Straight from my storage disk  - no adjustments, just processed to JPEG

basic adjustments with  CO1

Not great art , but it shows how almost black shadows can be adjusted. Late afternoon / low angle light

KariP wrote:

StopCzas wrote:

Hello, thank you very much for all the advice. As I read all your comments, I immediately realize my mistakes.

-1EV was not intentional, i used "C" function on dial. There was a strong wind and this shot was one of few other attempts. I set such a low ISO thinking that I would get the best quality image, but with windy conditions, long shutter time and a light tripod (Manfrotto Traveler) it was a big mistake. In addition, the lens is very light, which makes it susceptible to wind

I`m using Capture 1 for processing(RAW). I like dark frames with the glow from the lights - this is probably what i miss the most and maybe more details in more visible scene. Some sliders and local adjustments were able to pull out some of the lights.I didn't calibrate the monitor, but I noticed that most people judge my frames as too dark, I have to look at it.

Publishing a photo in this forum was a very good idea, I have not encountered such constructive criticism for a long time, for which I thank you. I I will take your advice and try some new shots and come back here for sure.

Regards,

I

Others have given you already great advice. Using Fujifilm camera for low light shots is actually quite easy. Sensor is quite perfect. ISO between 180 - 1600 is perfectly usable

You mentioned you use Capture One (?) and that is a great software to adjust low light images. Dark shadows are easy to work with and noise is easy to remove if needed .

A couple of samples from my favourite test scene - easy to test DR and resolution from kitchen window :

One RAW image - originally perhaps somewhat underexposured and then adjusted in CO

You do not have to use lowest possible ISO - and the quality of ISO values under 180 is not OK - it is "artificial" low setting, not native. And adjusting RAW files can be eye opening ...

Straight from my storage disk - no adjustments, just processed to JPEG

basic adjustments with CO1

Not great art , but it shows how almost black shadows can be adjusted. Late afternoon / low angle light

Not late afternoon .... the sun has just risen, it will sink so that light comes from the left ...

As others have pointed out your exposure settings were not ideal. It also appears to me that your focus was not spot on or there was too much haze/humidity in the air for the shot to be worthwhile. The light pole in foreground is also a compositional problem but maybe your intention was to deal with it in post.

Digital capture is best when the sensor receives the greatest amount of light possible without reaching saturation. ISO does not affect the amount of light that falls on the sensor, it amplifies the signal. Aperture and shutter are the only two variables that affect how much light the sensor receives and in this case your aperture at f5.6 is fine but then you should be at a much longer shutter speed than 15 seconds. Use the histogram and blinkies option to push the exposure as far to the right on the histogram as possible without significant blinkies when shooting raw and then process the file to taste in post. Doing so will give you the best, cleanest file to work with providing the highest degree of flexibility in editing with the lowest possible noise.

As for focus I would use manual for a shot like this and magnify to the max on the LCD or in the EVF to ensure proper focus. Shooting distant landscapes over water can also be problematic depending on the relative air/water temperature.

Compositionally you'll find what you like after a lot of trial and error.

I hope this helps.

Bob

A few months ago, I was like you the OP and remembered the crappy pictures taken as what then high ISO on my old Canon point and shoot. So I tried every ISO setting on my camera, from ISO 200 to ISO 12800. As noise truly began to be seen only from ISO 6400, I first set-up the camera to never go over ISO 3200 (probably twice or 4 times as much as my old Canon).

On Christmas, I was asked to take a picture in dimly lit church (it's kind of a pleonasm I know). Since I only had the 15-45 kit zoom, I gave in and tried at ISO 6400 and ISO 12800 to have acceptable shutter speeds of a 10th and a 20th of a second. On my 27 inches screen, Capture One shows pictures of about 45 by 30 cm, which would be a sizeable print and yes, I can see noise, but I mostly see it because I know there is noise in it.

But no one will see it on a smartphone or tablet screen, one will barely notice on a computer screen, because that would be assuming the people watching the picture take the time to display it full screen and then zoom it and pixel peep, and if I were to print it, I'm pretty sure such noise will be mostly lost in the printing process.

All this was done with my X-T20, whose sensor is older, and presumably less good at climbing in ISO than the sensor of the X-T3.

Your feelings about this may obviously vary, but the bottom line is that you should let ISO going all the way to 12800 if necessary and not worry too much about quality loss.

Aristide Rutilant wrote:

Your feelings about this may obviously vary, but the bottom line is that you should let ISO going all the way to 12800 if necessary and not worry too much about quality loss.

My own feelings would vary considerably if I were planning to print large.  If you believe that the noise generated at ISO 6400-12800 is essentially invisible in a large print (particularly one with fine detail), then my first reaction would be “show me” since my own experience is not consistent with that.  I would agree that printing can be quite forgiving of noise and obsessing over it (as many do) is unnecessary.  However, in fairly sizable enlargements, the noise can be more visible and impact fine detail.  Not everyone views larger prints at a considerable distance.  In spite of your recommendations here, I would heartily recommend that people who are planning to print large should do a smaller crop of a section of the print at the same resolution as the final version and test the visibility of the noise before simply following your advice to ignore the issue.

JMHO.