SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
wessel Junior Member • Posts: 29
SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

I recently bought  a SDqH body, (next to my DP0q camera).

I always loved the "negative film" look and sharpness jpg straight out of the DP0q.

Razorsharp and no luminance blur at all.

The SDqH has a different image as it seems, it uses luminance blur in the images even if you set allĀ  JPG parameters off in the camera. This means I cannot use the Jpg files in the field and have to process all Raw

With RAW, the images look nearly the same (in SPP), but even at the lowest ISO the SDqH stuggles with some color noise in area's who are clean with the DP0q.

It seems the APS-H sensor might be a step to far, since I cannot see improvements of the larger sensor between APS-c and APS-h

I am interested to know if more SDQH owners see the same image difference.

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Thanks Eddy

EEvan
EEvan Regular Member • Posts: 212
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

wessel wrote:

I recently bought a SDqH body, (next to my DP0q camera).

I always loved the "negative film" look and sharpness jpg straight out of the DP0q.

Razorsharp and no luminance blur at all.

The SDqH has a different image as it seems, it uses luminance blur in the images even if you set all JPG parameters off in the camera. This means I cannot use the Jpg files in the field and have to process all Raw

With RAW, the images look nearly the same (in SPP), but even at the lowest ISO the SDqH stuggles with some color noise in area's who are clean with the DP0q.

It seems the APS-H sensor might be a step to far, since I cannot see improvements of the larger sensor between APS-c and APS-h

I am interested to know if more SDQH owners see the same image difference.

What firmware are you using? They had some effort to use different JPEG processing. I don't know which is which, but maybe one is closer to what you want?

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/download/cameras/firmware/#sd-h

https://www.sigma-global.com/common/download/cameras/brochures-manuals/data/sdQh_image-processing-mode_EN.pdf

OP wessel Junior Member • Posts: 29
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

What firmware are you using? They had some effort to use different JPEG processing. I don't know which is which, but maybe one is closer to what you want?

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/download/cameras/firmware/#sd-h

https://www.sigma-global.com/common/download/cameras/brochures-manuals/data/sdQh_image-processing-mode_EN.pdf

All my camera 's are at latest  firmware, first thing i do and i keep checking for all my gear.

Don't know if the previous versions had a different rendering, but from my point Foveon is about detail and not the ususal Bayer blur...

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thanks Eddy

Tiger1 Contributing Member • Posts: 554
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro
3

The sensor technology is the same in both cameras. The most likely difference is the lens. The Dp0Q has one of the best wide angle lenses ever made for APSC. It is pin sharp. I don't think Sigma has made an equivalent quality wide angle to cover APSC-H or FF. So it may be impossible to compare the same scenes with both cameras with identical quality lenses. Just a thought.

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EEvan
EEvan Regular Member • Posts: 212
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

wessel wrote:

What firmware are you using? They had some effort to use different JPEG processing. I don't know which is which, but maybe one is closer to what you want?

https://www.sigma-global.com/en/download/cameras/firmware/#sd-h

https://www.sigma-global.com/common/download/cameras/brochures-manuals/data/sdQh_image-processing-mode_EN.pdf

All my camera 's are at latest firmware, first thing i do and i keep checking for all my gear.

Don't know if the previous versions had a different rendering, but from my point Foveon is about detail and not the ususal Bayer blur...

I believe this is a change to the firmware to change the jpeg behavior.

I realize that my first link doesn't go where I wanted to point. Here is the text:

In order to optimize the image quality, we have been developing and updating the firmware for the SIGMA sd Quattro . For the SIGMA sd Quattro, from firmware Ver. 1.05 onward, improved noise reduction has been implemented to the image processing function. Although this specification benefits the overall image quality, under certain shooting conditions or depending on subjects, it may look like the resolution is lower than before. For such customers, we would like to offer a new option for the image processing that prioritizes the resolution power.

In order to change the image processing mode of JPEG files, please refer to the PDF file "How to change the image processing mode". There is no change in the image quality of RAW data even when the image processing mode is changed.
In addition, for those who change the image processing mode, the change will remain even after updating the firmware in the future.

For those who prefer the current JPEG images or shoot in RAW mode, no change is required.

So I think you might desire the alternative JPEG they are describing in this. The other link is how to modify the firmware for the JPEG.

otumay
otumay Contributing Member • Posts: 574
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro
1

wessel wrote:

I recently bought a SDqH body, (next to my DP0q camera).

I always loved the "negative film" look and sharpness jpg straight out of the DP0q.

Razorsharp and no luminance blur at all.

The SDqH has a different image as it seems, it uses luminance blur in the images even if you set all JPG parameters off in the camera. This means I cannot use the Jpg files in the field and have to process all Raw

With RAW, the images look nearly the same (in SPP), but even at the lowest ISO the SDqH stuggles with some color noise in area's who are clean with the DP0q.

It seems the APS-H sensor might be a step to far, since I cannot see improvements of the larger sensor between APS-c and APS-h

I am interested to know if more SDQH owners see the same image difference.

I have both cameras and been using them for some time now. I agree that the dp0Q performance is stellar most of the time. I use the sdQH with a variety of lenses, including the 14mm Art. Here are my impressions:

1. Focusing is faster and better in dp0Q compared to sdQH/14mm combo.

2. dp0Q is sharper, although this can be changed in camera or SPP settings.

3. I never use jpegs straight out of the camera, but I encounter occasional blurring and colour noise in both cameras.

The slightly wider field of vision seems to be the only advantage of the sdQH, together with the speed (f/1.8 versus f/4)

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OP wessel Junior Member • Posts: 29
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

I installed the firmware again along with the SDQ_setA.bin.

This solves most of my blur problems, I now see the same sharpness as with my DP0Q :), but there is still more noise then the DP0Q (with all lenses). Perhaps that the apsH sensor size provides more data and the hardware is more stressed?

Thanks EEvan, I would not have found this and was ready to give up on the SDQH.

I cannot always use the RAW files while travelling, SPP is just to slow for my field laptop

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I am now testing some glass on the SDQH, some nice , some worse.

For now: sigma 8-16mm is reasonable good, but ot tack sharp from 10mm and longer (compared with the 14mm dp0q)

Sigma EXAF 50mm macro f2.8, center is okay, corners only after f5.6, no AF

Sigma EXAF 15-30 Aspherical, large lens but very good, even full open, no AF, AF turns but is not precise.

Pentax SMC 50mm F1.7 (Kmount with modification pin) nice sharpness wide open, corners only bit behind, my number one choice for vintage 50mm

Pentax super Takumar 50mm f1.4 (M42), very soft but even image till f2.8

Auto SHinon 55mm f1.4 (M42) , very soft till f4.0, corners stay behind.

Pentacon mc 50mm f2.0 (M42

Auto Shinon 28mm f2.8 (M42) center sharp, corners better after f5.6

Eyemik MC 28mm f2.0 (M42) good center, corners are bad till f8.

Sigma MF 135 f3.5 mini tele, good sharp lens, even at f3.5

In the corner are a Shinon  135mm f2.8  and 200mm f3.5, next week...

I am also going to try a Samyang/rokinon 10mm f2.8 with Pentax mount, The Cine version (T3.1).

My experience so far is that all focus plane differences are workable between Pentax K and Sigma SA mount, you need to remove the Pentax aperture pin though...  perhaps the 10mm will be difficult since the lens only moves a few mm from infinity til close up.

thanks for thinking with me.

Eddy

Johan Borg Senior Member • Posts: 2,999
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro
1

wessel wrote:

I installed the firmware again along with the SDQ_setA.bin.

This solves most of my blur problems, I now see the same sharpness as with my DP0Q :), but there is still more noise then the DP0Q (with all lenses). Perhaps that the apsH sensor size provides more data and the hardware is more stressed?

I suspect it's because the sd sensors contain phase detection pixels while the dp sensors contain highlight protection (darker) pixels. I don't think there's a quality difference between sdQ and sdQ H on a pixel level.

The highlight protection pixels allows Sigma to saturate the dp sensors a little bit more before highlights are totally gone, giving you less noise in otherwise similar conditions.

EEvan
EEvan Regular Member • Posts: 212
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

Johan Borg wrote:

wessel wrote:

I installed the firmware again along with the SDQ_setA.bin.

This solves most of my blur problems, I now see the same sharpness as with my DP0Q :), but there is still more noise then the DP0Q (with all lenses). Perhaps that the apsH sensor size provides more data and the hardware is more stressed?

I suspect it's because the sd sensors contain phase detection pixels while the dp sensors contain highlight protection (darker) pixels. I don't think there's a quality difference between sdQ and sdQ H on a pixel level.

The highlight protection pixels allows Sigma to saturate the dp sensors a little bit more before highlights are totally gone, giving you less noise in otherwise similar conditions.

I've not heard about the dpQ's Highlight Protection Pixels? Is this documented anywhere? How are they implemented, and how much highlight protection do they give? I'm kinda curious.

Shawn67 Senior Member • Posts: 2,283
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

It is a menu option (Overexposure Correction) in the dp quattro cameras.

Shawn

Tom Schum
Tom Schum Forum Pro • Posts: 10,001
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro
1

Tiger1 wrote:

The sensor technology is the same in both cameras. The most likely difference is the lens. The Dp0Q has one of the best wide angle lenses ever made for APSC. It is pin sharp. I don't think Sigma has made an equivalent quality wide angle to cover APSC-H or FF. So it may be impossible to compare the same scenes with both cameras with identical quality lenses. Just a thought.

Actually, the dp0q has a different sensor than the sd Q series.  The dp0q sensor has no phase focus pixels.

I own a dp0q and a sd Quattro (non-H).  Image quality from the dp0q has always seemed better to me.  I could never adequately explain why.

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Tom Schum
Copper: Mankind's favorite electrical conductor

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Scottelly
Scottelly Forum Pro • Posts: 15,030
Re: SDQuattro H vs DP0Quattro

I shoot in Portrait color mode to avoid the halos I see in the out of camera jpegs I get when shooting in other color modes, like Standard and Landscape. No matter how far I reduce the Sharpness, the images still seem to be over-sharpened.

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Scott Barton Kennelly
https://www.bigprintphotos.com/

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