Panasonic G7: The A and S modes seem to be the same?

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode.  It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can  adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

Guy Parsons wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

Of course A and S modes are different things.

No Panasonic here but on my Oly E-P5 when in A mode the rear dial fiddles the aperture choice, the front dial fiddles the exposure compensation, so naturally the shutter speed changes when you fiddle the front dial.

Likewise the S mode, rear dial fiddles the chosen shutter speed and front dial fiddles the exposure compensation, so again the aperture changes as you fiddle the exposure compensation.

That all assumes a fixed ISO, use Auto ISO and things get a bit more tricky.

In the case of the G7 camera there are two rows on the screen when the aperature or the shutter speed are changed. The top row is the shutter speed and the bottom row is the aperture value. As the top or bottom row changes the other row changes also. To alter the exposure compensation I need to press a button on the camera and use a dial, it shows a +/- change.

Brian

You may be mis-interpreting what you are see. First, I’m assuming that the ISO is fixed and that in A mode the single front wheel adjusts Aperture but in S mode that wheel adjusts the Shutter Speed. The manual confirms this as the default settings. In fact both front and rear wheels adjust Aperture in A mode and Shutter speed in S mode, which is maybe not what you’re expecting.

In A mode, when you adjust the Aperture, the camera will adjust the Shutter to give the correct exposure. Similarly, in S mode when you adjust the Shutter speed the camera will adjust the Aperture to give the correct exposure. So, in either A or S mode, at any fixed ISO both, Aperture and Shutter settings will change when you move the front wheel. This is is normal behaviour for A and S modes.

Below are the relevant pages from the G7 Advanced manual showing: default settings in A ans Modes and how you can change the front and rear wheels.

windmillgolfer wrote:

You may be mis-interpreting what you are see. First, I’m assuming that the ISO is fixed and that in A mode the single front wheel adjusts Aperture but in S mode that wheel adjusts the Shutter Speed. The manual confirms this as the default settings. In fact both front and rear wheels adjust Aperture in A mode and Shutter speed in S mode, which is maybe not what you’re expecting.

In A mode, when you adjust the Aperture, the camera will adjust the Shutter to give the correct exposure. Similarly, in S mode when you adjust the Shutter speed the camera will adjust the Aperture to give the correct exposure. So, in either A or S mode, at any fixed ISO both, Aperture and Shutter settings will change when you move the front wheel. This is is normal behaviour for A and S modes.

Below are the relevant pages from the G7 Advanced manual showing: default settings in A ans Modes and how you can change the front and rear wheels.

Thanks for the info windmillgolfer.

It seemed that I was adjusting the shutter speed when in the A mode using the wheel but it may have just been an illusion.
I usually use the P mode but I wanted to try another modes.
I'll take another look at my camera.

Brian

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

S is shutter

A is aperture

you can group them, but not with panasonic cameras as easy.

m mode has both but vaires the exposure.

both priorities have reasons.

if you want a consistent exposure then aperture priority is great.

If you are more concerned with gathering fast subjects or reduce camera shake then shutter priority is great for that.

hindesite wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

You seem to be struggling a bit with this camera.

Of course A and S are different modes, you are confusing cause and effect.

In a fixed light environment, when you change one, the other follows.

The way to demonstrate how they work is to fix your ISO, then select A, and watch the S value change when you move from a dark to light scene and vice versa.

The select S, and do the same, you will see A value adjust to maintain the correct exposure.

No I'm not struggling hindesite, I'm just not use to taking photos using other modes as most of the time I use the P mode.
As the camera had two dials it seemed like one dial was for aperture and the other was for shutter speed but I have since learn that both dials do the same thing so when you have the camera set to the Aperture mode then both dials adjust the aperture.

Brian

Tim Reidy Productions wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

S is shutter

A is aperture

you can group them, but not with panasonic cameras as easy.

m mode has both but vaires the exposure.

both priorities have reasons.

if you want a consistent exposure then aperture priority is great.

If you are more concerned with gathering fast subjects or reduce camera shake then shutter priority is great for that.

I usually use the P mode but in trying a different mode I mistakenly thought that the top front dial adjusted the shutter speed and the back top dial adjusted the aperture in S And A mode but I now have found out that both dials adjust the same thing.

Brian

Brisn5757 wrote:

Tim Reidy Productions wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

S is shutter

A is aperture

you can group them, but not with panasonic cameras as easy.

m mode has both but vaires the exposure.

both priorities have reasons.

if you want a consistent exposure then aperture priority is great.

If you are more concerned with gathering fast subjects or reduce camera shake then shutter priority is great for that.

I usually use the P mode but in trying a different mode I mistakenly thought that the top front dial adjusted the shutter speed and the back top dial adjusted the aperture in S And A mode but I now have found out that both dials adjust the same thing.

Brian

In the M mode you have one for shutter and one for aperture.

Brisn5757 wrote:

Tim Reidy Productions wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

S is shutter

A is aperture

you can group them, but not with panasonic cameras as easy.

m mode has both but vaires the exposure.

both priorities have reasons.

if you want a consistent exposure then aperture priority is great.

If you are more concerned with gathering fast subjects or reduce camera shake then shutter priority is great for that.

I usually use the P mode but in trying a different mode I mistakenly thought that the top front dial adjusted the shutter speed and the back top dial adjusted the aperture in S And A mode but I now have found out that both dials adjust the same thing.

Brian

That is indeed the default setting. However, as the manual points out, you can change the operation of both dials.

My personal preference is to have the front dial adjust aperture in A, or shutter speed in S, and have the rear dial set exposure compensation. In M, the front dial does shutter & the back does aperture.

Coming from years of using Canon film & digital SLRs, where this was how they worked, it makes sense to me. But you may want a different setup. Look at the options available & see what suits you best.

Steve

evetsf wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

Tim Reidy Productions wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

S is shutter

A is aperture

you can group them, but not with panasonic cameras as easy.

m mode has both but vaires the exposure.

both priorities have reasons.

if you want a consistent exposure then aperture priority is great.

If you are more concerned with gathering fast subjects or reduce camera shake then shutter priority is great for that.

I usually use the P mode but in trying a different mode I mistakenly thought that the top front dial adjusted the shutter speed and the back top dial adjusted the aperture in S And A mode but I now have found out that both dials adjust the same thing.

Brian

That is indeed the default setting. However, as the manual points out, you can change the operation of both dials.

My personal preference is to have the front dial adjust aperture in A, or shutter speed in S, and have the rear dial set exposure compensation. In M, the front dial does shutter & the back does aperture.

Coming from years of using Canon film & digital SLRs, where this was how they worked, it makes sense to me. But you may want a different setup. Look at the options available & see what suits you best.

Steve

Thanks Steve.

That seems to be the best setup as I use exposure compensation a lot.

One thing I noted was the the zebra pattern disappears when you are using the exposure compensation, I so end up jumping between zebra pattern and exposure compensation.

Brian

I shoot Aperture Priority 99.9% of the time. Always have front dial for EV compensation and Rear for Aperture. But that’s just the way I prefer it.

On the Zebras, they’ll go away if the EV compensation you have set is sufficient to stop the over exposure the zebras were indicating. That’s the whole point. Try it, when the zebras have gone, put the exposure back up to see the zebras return.

hindesite wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

hindesite wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

You seem to be struggling a bit with this camera.

Of course A and S are different modes, you are confusing cause and effect.

In a fixed light environment, when you change one, the other follows.

The way to demonstrate how they work is to fix your ISO, then select A, and watch the S value change when you move from a dark to light scene and vice versa.

The select S, and do the same, you will see A value adjust to maintain the correct exposure.

No I'm not struggling hindesite, I'm just not use to taking photos using other modes as most of the time I use the P mode.

Evidence points to the contrary, did you actually try the demo I suggested? You would have seen that one dial adjusts the setting only, while the other additionally causes the EV display to move from zero.

As the camera had two dials it seemed like one dial was for aperture and the other was for shutter speed

That is correct, when the camera is in use without the dial set switch on.

but I have since learn that both dials do the same thing so when you have the camera set to the Aperture mode then both dials adjust the aperture.

No, that is not correct. Again, you are confusing cause and effect. Look for the highlighted (yellow) aperture or shutter value in the display to see which one you have direct control over. In A ans S mode, the other dial adjusts EV, which of course changes the other values as you see, it is just not doing it directly.

see my earlier, first reply in this thread, you’ll see extracts from the Advanced Manual. You are wrong about default wheel settings. I was surprised too, my cameras are set to EV  adjustment on the front and Aperture at the rear.

Also, the important thing to note about A and S modes, is that it doesn't matter how you set the aperture, these modes work totally differently for how the camera adjusts exposure.

For example, in A mode with manual lenses, you control the aperture using the lens itself, and the camera can't expose automatically if you are in S mode.

So no, the two modes aren't even close to being the same.

hindesite wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

hindesite wrote:

Evidence points to the contrary, did you actually try the demo I suggested? You would have seen that one dial adjusts the setting only, while the other additionally causes the EV display to move from zero.

In reply to your question.

I have not had time yet to explore my camera setting more but a soon a I get a spare moment I'll check out what you have written thanks.

At the time I was testing the A and S modes my ISO was set to 200.

Brian

I had the same mental block a couple of years ago. It is not just about what you can dial in, it is about how the camera behaves.

Yes, more than one dial may give the illusion of controlling the settings separately but really you are doing the same thing. That does not mean there is no difference.

Dial in your settings, point the camera at different subjects/different light and observe which value is fixed and which changes.

e.g. for a fast moving subject in variable lighting - use S to prioritise shutter speed.

hindesite wrote:

windmillgolfer wrote:

hindesite wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

hindesite wrote:

Brisn5757 wrote:

I understood that if I set my camera to the A mode then the camera will auto set the shutter speed and I have not control over the shutter setting.
That does not seem to be the case as I can still adjust the shutter speed using the cameras top front control wheel while in the A mode. It seems the same when I get the camera to the S mode as I still can adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed using the cameras top dials.

Does the S or A mode have a purpose on the camera or can they just be grouped together as a A/S mode?

Brian

You seem to be struggling a bit with this camera.

Of course A and S are different modes, you are confusing cause and effect.

In a fixed light environment, when you change one, the other follows.

The way to demonstrate how they work is to fix your ISO, then select A, and watch the S value change when you move from a dark to light scene and vice versa.

The select S, and do the same, you will see A value adjust to maintain the correct exposure.

No I'm not struggling hindesite, I'm just not use to taking photos using other modes as most of the time I use the P mode.

Evidence points to the contrary, did you actually try the demo I suggested? You would have seen that one dial adjusts the setting only, while the other additionally causes the EV display to move from zero.

As the camera had two dials it seemed like one dial was for aperture and the other was for shutter speed

That is correct, when the camera is in use without the dial set switch on.

but I have since learn that both dials do the same thing so when you have the camera set to the Aperture mode then both dials adjust the aperture.

No, that is not correct. Again, you are confusing cause and effect. Look for the highlighted (yellow) aperture or shutter value in the display to see which one you have direct control over. In A ans S mode, the other dial adjusts EV, which of course changes the other values as you see, it is just not doing it directly.

see my earlier, first reply in this thread, you’ll see extracts from the Advanced Manual. You are wrong about default wheel settings. I was surprised too, my cameras are set to EV adjustment on the front and Aperture at the rear.

Yes, I saw that.

However, on the camera itself, the displays and what changes behave differently, they are not doing the same thing.

If I change the aperture dial in A mode, for example, the aperture setting is highlighted in yellow and changes with the dial; the EV setting stays constant (since the camera is automatically compensating exposure), as it should. If I use the other dial, the aperture does not change, the shutter speed does, as does the EV display. It is because you are changing the EV that the shutter changes, not the other way round.

Your cameras observed behaviour in A mode implies that the camera has been changed from the default and set to adjust Aperture with the rear wheel and EV compensation with the front.  This is how my G7 was configured, and my G80s are now configured, to give exactly that behaviour.

Try it yourself and look closely at what changes on the display.

I don't know if you have a G7 in front of you, but I do, and the camera does not behave as the manual indicates. I don't know if this is because the manual was always wrong, or if a firmware update changed things.

G9 behaves the same as the G7, too, despite the manual having the same description..

What is puzzling me, is that the way the manual describes the dial behaviour is the opposite to the OP's description (otherwise he would have seen that S and A modes were different - in S, you can only change S, and in A you can only change A - instead of thinking they are the same).