Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,429
Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

How to determine the lowest shutter speed  that doesn't cause motion blur?  In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation.  One can use a  very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

 DigitalFFUser's gear list:DigitalFFUser's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
shuncheung Senior Member • Posts: 1,277
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur
9

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur? In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation. One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

There is no simple answer to this question. It depends on several factors such as the magnification, focal length you are using, how fast your subject is moving or not moving, etc. A high-pixel-density body such as a Z7 is going to be less forgiving than a 12MP DSLR such as the D3 and D700.

For birds in flight, I frequently use my 500mm PF lens, and I would use at least 1/1250 sec, but 1/2000 sec is better. The wings of a hummingbird probably cannot be frozen by shutter speed alone. Instead we use flashes.

On the other hand, if you are taking pictures of a group standing still, maybe you can get away with 1/60 sec or even 1/30 sec, but if there are little kids, those shutter speeds could be too slow.

 shuncheung's gear list:shuncheung's gear list
Nikon D750 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 500mm F5.6E PF +4 more
Wahrsager
Wahrsager Senior Member • Posts: 1,854
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur
2

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur?

I think that comes with experience.

 Wahrsager's gear list:Wahrsager's gear list
Nikon D4S Nikon D500 Nikon D5 Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR +27 more
JimKasson
JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 28,189
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur
2

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur? In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation. One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

First compute the magnification. Then decide what is an acceptable amount of linear motion at the sensor (in the image space). Estimate the subject speed laterally. Multiply that by the magnification. Then pick the shutter speed that will barely allow the acceptable amount of linear blur.

This is similar to the way to get DOF from deciding on what an acceptable circle of confusion at the sensor is.

I'd start with a blur threshold at the sensor of 10 to 50 um, but in many situations, more blur than that is acceptable.

Jim

-- hide signature --
 JimKasson's gear list:JimKasson's gear list
Nikon D5 Sony a7 III Nikon Z7 Fujifilm GFX 100 Sony a7R IV +2 more
briantilley
briantilley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,445
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur? In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation. One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

Is your question actually about motion blur (blur caused by movement of the subject), or do you mean camera shake?

 briantilley's gear list:briantilley's gear list
Nikon Df Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 60mm F2.8G ED Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D +19 more
olyflyer
olyflyer Forum Pro • Posts: 26,929
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur?

How long is a piece of string...?

In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation.

This is not possible to answer since it depends on many things and most of all, it is individual, depending on yourself mostly. Even if you'd measure it for a given situation it would only be valid for that single occasion. The next minute you'd get a different value. So your own experience is the best measuring device.

One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

...or use a sturdy tripod, or larger aperture, or higher ISO... There are several possible alternatives and the right combination depends on the occasion and the situation.

 olyflyer's gear list:olyflyer's gear list
Nikon Z7
bokemon Regular Member • Posts: 325
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

I like this answer.

 bokemon's gear list:bokemon's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Panasonic G85 Nikon Z6 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Sigma 105mm F2.8 EX DG Macro +14 more
DevaFalc Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

Wahrsager wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur?

I think that comes with experience.

agreed 100%, what i do is i keep my u1 and u2 as starting points

u1 people mode (f4 1/160s Auto iso in area af)

u2 low light (f1.8 1/60s auto iso dynamic area af)

u3 flash indoors (f5.6 1/160 iso 1600 in area af)

 DevaFalc's gear list:DevaFalc's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Nikon Z7 Canon EF 50mm F1.8 II Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 +1 more
tommiejeep
tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 7,142
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur
2

There is no formula. It depends on what you shoot. Some times motion blur can make the image.

Yesterday I was second camera to my wife at a Charity Event . Always fun since I can play around with cameras. I was shooting a7iii/Batis 85 and Z6/24-70 f4 and 50 f1.8. I was shooting a pretty girl (known to me) dancing. As tempo of music increased I had to increase shutter speeds. I used1/80, 1/640 and 1/1000. At 1/80 I was trying for motion blue, particularly hair with face sharp.

Since I shoot people at Events I rarely go below 1/250 unless it is a posed photo. For kids I like faster. For Soccer, rarely below 1/1000 and usually 1/1250-1/1600. For close action I normally shoot faster (rate of closure) .

too bad, needed more speed

All basically ooc except changed to Camera portrait. I will let her choose which to PP out of many .

and earlier in the day with Z6

-- hide signature --

Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 8,314
Cameras should calculate it for us
mapgraphs
mapgraphs Senior Member • Posts: 1,404
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

Adding to Tommie... it's perhaps worth keeping in mind that hands, feet, hair etc. can be moving at a different speed than the body or that one person may be moving faster or slower than another... ; - )

OP DigitalFFUser Senior Member • Posts: 1,429
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

briantilley wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur? In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation. One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

Is your question actually about motion blur (blur caused by movement of the subject), or do you mean camera shake?

Both.  I want to calculate the minimum shutter speed  to freeze a frame.

 DigitalFFUser's gear list:DigitalFFUser's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD +12 more
ericbowles
ericbowles Contributing Member • Posts: 504
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur
1

DigitalFFUser wrote:

briantilley wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur? In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation. One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

Is your question actually about motion blur (blur caused by movement of the subject), or do you mean camera shake?

Both. I want to calculate the minimum shutter speed to freeze a frame.

If you want a single number, use 1/800 per second.  It covers everything except fast moving animals and birds.  For those subjects use 1/2000 sec or 1/2500 sec.

I agree with the earlier comments - it makes big difference depending on your subject.  People are relatively slow moving.  Landscapes depend on the focal length and your ability to hold the camera steady.   With VR, I'll use a shutter as slow as 1/15 sec or so - about 1/4 the focal length (that's two stops).  But if you are talking about subject motion, I'd start with 1/800 sec, and  go up from there.

Surprisingly - there are some subjects that look better with a little blur.  Cars, airplanes, and even bicycles look better with a little blur so you use a slower shutter speed and pan with the subject.  Bird wing tips look natural when they are slightly blurred.

-- hide signature --

Eric Bowles
BowlesImages.com

 ericbowles's gear list:ericbowles's gear list
Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm F4G ED VR +14 more
briantilley
briantilley Veteran Member • Posts: 4,445
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

DigitalFFUser wrote:

briantilley wrote:

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur? In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation. One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

Is your question actually about motion blur (blur caused by movement of the subject), or do you mean camera shake?

Both. I want to calculate the minimum shutter speed to freeze a frame.

You're going to struggle to calculate a single answer that suits all situations, because there are so many variables.

For example, if someone is shooting a fast-moving subject with a long lens, and their hand-holding and panning technique is poor, they may need to use 1/2000th  to eliminate blur.  But if they are shooting a static subject with a shorter lens, and can take advantage of VR or IBIS, they could well get sharp images at 1/10th.

As Eric says, 1/800th is as good a starting point as any...

 briantilley's gear list:briantilley's gear list
Nikon Df Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 60mm F2.8G ED Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D +19 more
Hasa
Hasa Senior Member • Posts: 1,220
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

tommiejeep wrote:

There is no formula. It depends on what you shoot. Some times motion blur can make the image.

Yesterday I was second camera to my wife at a Charity Event . Always fun since I can play around with cameras. I was shooting a7iii/Batis 85 and Z6/24-70 f4 and 50 f1.8. I was shooting a pretty girl (known to me) dancing. As tempo of music increased I had to increase shutter speeds. I used1/80, 1/640 and 1/1000. At 1/80 I was trying for motion blue, particularly hair with face sharp.

Since I shoot people at Events I rarely go below 1/250 unless it is a posed photo. For kids I like faster. For Soccer, rarely below 1/1000 and usually 1/1250-1/1600. For close action I normally shoot faster (rate of closure) .

too bad, needed more speed

All basically ooc except changed to Camera portrait. I will let her choose which to PP out of many .

and earlier in the day with Z6

Lovely girl, but I would never post #2 and #3 the way her eyes look. This is where you need to do a burst of shots and then select the best, also from a focus/sharpness viewpoint - and nice eyes

-- hide signature --

Smile and the world smiles back!

 Hasa's gear list:Hasa's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D7200 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-17E II +22 more
sirhawkeye64 Senior Member • Posts: 3,743
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

DigitalFFUser wrote:

How to determine the lowest shutter speed that doesn't cause motion blur? In other words most optimal shutter speed for a given situation. One can use a very high shutter speed but that will limit the amount of light.

Assuming there is no IBIS in the body or image stabilization in the lens the general rule is 1 / focal length, although some have said 1 / (2x focal length) is best. With IBIS, I can usually shoot a standard 24-70 or shorter lens around 1/30s with sharp results. I could shoot my 70-200 probably around 1/100s at 200mm with IBIS.

It all sort of depends, but again the general rule usually works in many cases.

I with standard FLs (like 70mm or under) I try to shoot for 1/80s or faster in general (this came from my DSLR shooting days), as I don't like to rely on IBIS as a crutch even though it's available.  It's always best to practice good technique and not rely on technology (such as IBIS) as a crutch.

 sirhawkeye64's gear list:sirhawkeye64's gear list
Nikon D7100 Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Fujifilm X-T30 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm F1.8G +19 more
tommiejeep
tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 7,142
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

Understood, only for shutter speeds and she never really had her eyes fully open while dancing . She does in some group images .

as close to open out of about 70 images

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63550654

Cheers and thanks for the comment.

-- hide signature --

Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

Hasa
Hasa Senior Member • Posts: 1,220
Re: Lowest shutter speed but no motion blur

tommiejeep wrote:

Understood, only for shutter speeds and she never really had her eyes fully open while dancing . She does in some group images .

as close to open out of about 70 images

Wow! I guess the next step then would be to coach her

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63550654

Cheers and thanks for the comment.

No problem. I just find that I love beautiful eyes.

The alternative to fast shutter speeds is using a flash with bounce or a couple remotely triggered in the room. They will freeze the action. Experimenting with letting in some ambient light may give you nice blurred trails to indicate motiuon coupled with a sharp outline. For dancing I would count on having maybe 10% good ones because I would use a shutter speed like 1/100 sec or so and then get sharp faces just as the dancer stops his motion to gyrate in the opposite direction. The dancer will have to reverse directions every now and then or float into space

To really freeze fast moving subjects you need to go to at least 1/1000 and even 1/2000 like the dog here (eyes open!). So we now know why people buy a FF Canon D1x or Nikon F4/5 etc. plus a 200mm F2 for indoors swimming contests with no flash allowed.

Nikon Z7 1/2000 F8 @ 500mm by using 300mm F4 PF + TC 1.7x

-- hide signature --

Smile and the world smiles back!

 Hasa's gear list:Hasa's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D7200 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Nikon AF-S Teleconverter TC-17E II +22 more
Matsu Senior Member • Posts: 2,351
Thom's Quick and Dirty

Here's a no nonsense quick guide from Thom Hogan.  It's pretty spot on, and you can extrapolate most other scenarios from these.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/technique/technique-articles/quick-and-dirty/qad-shutter-speeds.html

 Matsu's gear list:Matsu's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Panasonic 20mm F1.7 II Nikon D800 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +9 more
ericbowles
ericbowles Contributing Member • Posts: 504
Re: Thom's Quick and Dirty

Matsu wrote:

Here's a no nonsense quick guide from Thom Hogan. It's pretty spot on, and you can extrapolate most other scenarios from these.

http://www.dslrbodies.com/technique/technique-articles/quick-and-dirty/qad-shutter-speeds.html

Thom's suggestions are good, but the Birds in Flight setting at 1/1000 is far below the 1/1600 to 1/2500 or more that is currently used by most top bird photographers.  I don't think you'll find a single pro recommending 1/1000 sec.

-- hide signature --

Eric Bowles
BowlesImages.com

 ericbowles's gear list:ericbowles's gear list
Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm F4G ED VR +14 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads